I think their scoring depth scares me the most. Even If you shut down Kane and Toews, they still have Sharp, Bolland, Byfuglien, Hossa...this scares me. (Not to mention fear of their defense and their 3rd and 4th line players like Madden and Ladd). This is a complete team. The only weakness I see is a lack of experience for the goalie (like our goalie), but he appears to have had no issues with that so far. The Blackhawks are a scary team.
The Hawks have scoring depth but so to the Flyers. Asham. Giroux. Leino. JVR. Hartnell. Briere. Carter. Richards. Gagne. All our top 9 have scored big goals, plus Carcillo and all our D.
The Hawks have not played a team with 4 lines capable of pinning their small, fast D in their end. They have also not played a team with a D as good as ours.
I really think the Flyers can beat them. It won't be easy and we're going to need contributions from everyone. Getting Carter and Lappy back is huge, as is getting a few days rest for Pronger and the D.
We've beaten Brodeur, Rask and Halak, three of the hottest/best goalies in hockey, I don't see why we won't be able to score on Niemi. SJ couldn't because they have no depth.
I fear nothing but if I had to highlight a concern I would say their penalty killing. If the Flyers cannot get it going on the power play in this series, that spells trouble.
The top lines are so similar that they are likely to cancel one another out, if anything I think Carter's addition gives PHILLY the advantage. Scoring depth right now is about even, I'd say the Flyers have more potential for dropoff though because they are getting a lot of mileage out of that Hartnell/Briere/Leino line and two of those three are not exactly proven commodities in the playoffs. I feel like we'll see the Bolland line out there against them and that will be trouble for the Flyers, they have been playing lights out against the Sharks. Conversely, Chicago has not gotten much in the scoring department from Hossa, that won't go on forever.
I'm not worried about Buf, he is a player I've liked for some time but you really think he is gonna set up shop in front of the Flyer net? Pronger to Buf, "NO PARKING, BABY, NO PARKING ON THE DANCE FLOOR!"
Niemi is due to get lit up in at least one game and it will happen. Rest of the way will be a narrow margin in net for both goalies.
Keith and Seabrook are good but I'd be much more worried top pairings if I am Chicago.
The top lines are so similar that they are likely to cancel one another out, if anything I think Carter's addition gives PHILLY the advantage. Scoring depth right now is about even, I'd say the Flyers have more potential for dropoff though because they are getting a lot of mileage out of that Hartnell/Briere/Leino line and two of those three are not exactly proven commodities in the playoffs. I feel like we'll see the Bolland line out there against them and that will be trouble for the Flyers, they have been playing lights out against the Sharks. Conversely, Chicago has not gotten much in the scoring department from Hossa, that won't go on forever.
I think it's very likely that Carter will be back at C with Hartnell and Briere, with Leino moving up with Gagne and Richards - with whom Ville plays so well on the PP.
I'd love to see Carcillo get back in the lineup, but that's going to be tough because Powe is playing great and we need Lappy in there too.
I fear them being to quick making decisions with the puck for our forecheck to be effective. Our forecheck is vital to our success, we have to give them NO time to think.
I think it's very likely that Carter will be back at C with Hartnell and Briere, with Leino moving up with Gagne and Richards - with whom Ville plays so well on the PP.
I'd love to see Carcillo get back in the lineup, but that's going to be tough because Powe is playing great and we need Lappy in there too.
IF they are going to move Carter back to 2nd line center (which I would not be a fan of, fyi) then they BETTER put him with Hartnell and Asham/Carcillo/Leino and let Briere play with Roo and Reimer.
Otherwise, Briere's playoff performance thus far will not continue, he is not a good linemate with Carter because they are both puck hogs.
the Pronger/Byfuglien matchup will be huge I would think. I want to see right away what the refs are going to allow in their battles down low, because Pronger probably will concede stregnth to Byfuglien, so Pronger will have to beat him positionally, and using some of his veteran smarts to stop him.
Only time I will be scared to death is when Chicago has that top line out there against Krajicek and Parent. Yeah they may only be out there for 6-8 minutes a game but that could end up being the differance.
I think both teams will be facing animals they havent yet faced in the playoffs, maybe the Flyers more then the Hawks but I dont think any of that matters. The Flyers will be underdogs, but at this point, after everything we have been though on this ride do you think anyone should be scared when it comes right down to it? I cannot wait for Saturday.
the Pronger/Byfuglien matchup will be huge I would think. I want to see right away what the refs are going to allow in their battles down low, because Pronger probably will concede stregnth to Byfuglien, so Pronger will have to beat him positionally, and using some of his veteran smarts to stop him.
Only time I will be scared to death is when Chicago has that top line out there against Krajicek and Parent. Yeah they may only be out there for 6-8 minutes a game but that could end up being the differance.
I think both teams will be facing animals they havent yet faced in the playoffs, maybe the Flyers more then the Hawks but I dont think any of that matters. The Flyers will be underdogs, but at this point, after everything we have been though on this ride do you think anyone should be scared when it comes right down to it? I cannot wait for Saturday.
Yeah, if we move Carter back to center, we might have a decent chance against those top-2 lines.
Match Richards line (with potentially Carcillo) and Pronger/Carle against Toews, Kane, and Buff.
Match Carter line (maybe with JVR and Giroux?) and Kimmo/Coburn against Sharp, Hossa, and whoever (Versteeg?)
Then we can have Hartnell-Briere-Leino go up against Bolland.
Our second pairing is orders of magnitude better than theirs. That and Pronger vs. Buff (totally gay sounding nickname, btw) will be two of the key matchups.
Yeah, if we move Carter back to center, we might have a decent chance against those top-2 lines.
Match Richards line (with potentially Carcillo) and Pronger/Carle against Toews, Kane, and Buff.
Match Carter line (maybe with JVR and Giroux?) and Kimmo/Coburn against Sharp, Hossa, and whoever (Versteeg?)
Then we can have Hartnell-Briere-Leino go up against Bolland.
I like matching the Richards line vs. the Toews line to exploit Kane's inability to play defense as well as shut them down defensively ourselves.
Hossa; however, is a great two-way player, so instead of wasting one of our scoring lines defending him lets put out the LCB/LBP line against them.
Everyone always talks about wanting a shutdown 3rd line... without realizing that we have one already, it just happens to be our 4th line because we are so deep offensively.
We then have one of Roo and Briere's lines getting neutralized by the Madden line and the other can run free and rack up some points.
One of our greatest advantages thus far in the playoffs that will definitely continue against the Hawks is that we are a matchup NIGHTMARE because we can roll 3 scoring lines and one shutdown line.
I've seen Seabrook fumble with the puck during break outs.
I'm actually getting some (very slight) hope for this series.
I mean, the Hawks are great, but a couple things.
- Toews had 13 of his 26 points on the PP and Kane has 9 of his 20 on the PP. While I don't think our PK will repeat the MTL performance, if we can crimp the Hawks PP production (currently at 22.6), that could be a big factor.
- Niemi-Leighton could essentially be a wash and I think Leighton might still be our weakest link.
- The team that gave the Hawks by far the most trouble coincidentally had 2 No.1 studs that played huge minutes on their blue line.
- I don't think the Hawks have faced a forward corps like ours. Vancouver and SJ both have strong groups, but they don't have the speed that ours do. It was apparent by Game 2 of the SJ series that it was essentially going to be size versus speed and speed won the day. But our guys can keep up with them, I'd say we only have a couple below average skaters in our entire forward group.
- Like I said, I'm not 100% sold on that Hawks D. Maybe he will prove me wrong, but Keith's D peripherals as far as GAON and GAOFF are brutal, Campbell isn't a great defender, Hjalmarsson is practically a rookie, and Sopel is exploitable at ES (his main value is PK).
- Bottom line, I don't think the Hawks have a defender that's as good as Pronger OR Kimmo and considering the way Coburn has been coming on (not counting the 3rd last night), I'm not even positive Seabrook is that much better defensively than he is.
If Leighton can outplay Niemi (questionable, but not impossible) and our D can really outplay the Hawks D (fairly possible), I think we have a good shot.
Plus, I don't think the Pronger factor can really be overstated at this point.
Yeah, if we move Carter back to center, we might have a decent chance against those top-2 lines.
Match Richards line (with potentially Carcillo) and Pronger/Carle against Toews, Kane, and Buff.
Match Carter line (maybe with JVR and Giroux?) and Kimmo/Coburn against Sharp, Hossa, and whoever (Versteeg?)
Then we can have Hartnell-Briere-Leino go up against Bolland.
I think Carcillo is going to have a hard time getting back into the lineup unless Powe plays poorly or slips up. Dont think there is anyone else you take out of the lineup unless someone gets hurt.
I am not sure if Carter goes back to wing actually. At least not right off the bat anyway. I am sure they want to see how the matchups shake out with the way our lines our constructed right now.
Hard to take Carter off the wing right now honestly. he has looked really good these last 2 games.
I think Carcillo is going to have a hard time getting back into the lineup unless Powe plays poorly or slips up. Dont think there is anyone else you take out of the lineup unless someone gets hurt.
I am not sure if Carter goes back to wing actually. At least not right off the bat anyway. I am sure they want to see how the matchups shake out with the way our lines our constructed right now.
Hard to take Carter off the wing right now honestly. he has looked really good these last 2 games.
A healthy Carcillo should rightfully play over Asham.
A healthy Carcillo should rightfully play over Asham.
Debatable. Lavy was pissed at the penalty Carcillo took in one of the games early in the series... which I'm sure played into it to some extent. Asham isn't the most gifted player in the world, but he contributes well to the JVR/Giroux line.
Debatable. Lavy was pissed at the penalty Carcillo took in one of the games early in the series... which I'm sure played into it to some extent. Asham isn't the most gifted player in the world, but he contributes well to the JVR/Giroux line.
Asham's taken equally dumb penalties, plus, despite the goal he did nothing on a handful of other great looks last night.
Asham's taken equally dumb penalties, plus, despite the goal he did nothing on a handful of other great looks last night.
Everyone takes some dumb penalties. Hell, one of the worst culprits on this team for "dumb penalties" is Briere. However, Carcillo's dumb penalties generally stem from his inability to keep his cool... that's the kind of crap that really irks you as a coach.
- Niemi-Leighton could essentially be a wash and I think Leighton might still be our weakest link.
- Like I said, I'm not 100% sold on that Hawks D. Maybe he will prove me wrong, but Keith's D peripherals as far as GAON and GAOFF are brutal, Campbell isn't a great defender, Hjalmarsson is practically a rookie, and Sopel is exploitable at ES (his main value is PK).
Niemi had to carry the load against the Sharks for a few of those wins IMO. I don't think Leighton could've done it. I think he is a way better goalie than people are saying (better than Leights). The flip side of that touches on your other point, he has had to be very good. Chicago's defense is very good, but it's permeable. That, combined with the fact that the Flyers just lit up Brodeur, Halak, and Rask like a trio of Christmas trees is encouraging.
It's funny with these two. I think Niemi isn't getting enough credit and CHI's D is benefiting. Where as with Leighton, obviously if you're getting 3 shut outs in 5 games you're playing well, but I think the defense has been nails for him.
There is stuff in Niemi's game that seems exploitable though. he loses his net when he tracks shooters coming down the wing to behind the goal line, to the point where is a centering pass got through the shooter would be looking at an empty net. And it seems like he has "happy feet" a lot, some good passing could get him to take himself out of a play. I'm sure other teams scouts see it and nobody else has really been able to capitalize on it yet though...
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Plus, I don't think the Pronger factor can really be overstated at this point.
The man is a success magnet. It's impressive really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wud
I fear them being to quick making decisions with the puck for our forecheck to be effective. Our forecheck is vital to our success, we have to give them NO time to think.
I fear that, in addition to the speed of their forwards creating chances before our guys have a chance to get back to their own zone to help out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC
I fear Byfuglien arriving in a corner to find Timonen there.
That's true. Timonen is a tough son of a ***** though, and these are the finals. Unless he kills him or cripples him, I don't think Kimmo will hesitate to go into the corners after taking some punishment.
Last edited by Giroux tha Damaja: 05-25-2010 at 03:02 PM.
Everyone takes some dumb penalties. Hell, one of the worst culprits on this team for "dumb penalties" is Briere. However, Carcillo's dumb penalties generally stem from his inability to keep his cool... that's the kind of crap that really irks you as a coach.
And the slashing Dominic Moore in retaliation was Asham keeping his cool?
Look, I accept that Danny loses his **** from time to time. But I think that it would be very valuable to have him out there getting under the skin of a young Chicago team.
And the slashing Dominic Moore in retaliation was Asham keeping his cool?
Look, I accept that Danny loses his **** from time to time. But I think that it would be very valuable to have him out there getting under the skin of a young Chicago team.
Slash is one thing... Carcillo makes you nervous he's going to take 4 and blow a gasket. The real issue, however, is that Carcillo simply wasn't playing as well as Asham since the Devs series.
And the slashing Dominic Moore in retaliation was Asham keeping his cool?
Look, I accept that Danny loses his **** from time to time. But I think that it would be very valuable to have him out there getting under the skin of a young Chicago team.
Me too. I think Carcillo can do everything Asham can do plus more.
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