HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

The 5+20 minute penalty on Emelin

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-25-2010, 01:53 PM
  #26
DogsFan*
GHG
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
So when did he dislocate his knee since there was no impact on his knee with Emelin hit?
He is obviously hurt. Why are you trying to debate this? It will not change the fact the russians fell short once again.

DogsFan* is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 01:59 PM
  #27
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsFan View Post
He is obviously hurt. Why are you trying to debate this?
Bad officiating damages the sport, diving kills it.

Siberian is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 02:05 PM
  #28
DogsFan*
GHG
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,931
vCash: 500
You're seriously calling Yagr a diver!?!?! Why the hell would he stay off the ice in the dying moments of a gold medal game??

DogsFan* is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 02:07 PM
  #29
ronnyweed
Registered User
 
ronnyweed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
I missed the injury, what was it? I thought I saw Jagr jumping around after the game ended, about 12 minutes after his "injury".
so your theory is that Jagr, the best player on his team, faked an injury and purposely didn't play because he figured his team a better chance of winning without him?

did crsoby fake his injury last year? because by this logic he shouldn't have been able to celebrate the cup win if he was truely injured

ronnyweed is online now  
Old
05-25-2010, 02:09 PM
  #30
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsFan View Post
You're seriously calling Yagr a diver!?!?! Why the hell would he stay off the ice in the dying moments of a gold medal game??
Why? Because of 5+20 minute penalty, which was followed by another 2 minute Russian penalty, you take a dive and you make your opponent shorthanded for 7 minutes with 10 minutes left, what is so hard to understand?

Siberian is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 02:09 PM
  #31
s7ark
LeonTheProfessional
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,404
vCash: 500
This is obviously the worst atrocity to ever befall the sport. As compensation, the IIHF should award the next 7 WC Gold medals to Russian, and probably the previous 5 as well.

There Siberian, is that what you wanted to hear?

s7ark is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 02:11 PM
  #32
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
This is obviously the worst atrocity to ever befall the sport. As compensation, the IIHF should award the next 7 WC Gold medals to Russian, and probably the previous 5 as well.

There Siberian, is that what you wanted to hear?
Actually no, I thought Czech team deservingly were winning the game for 50 minutes, all I wanted is a proper ending to the game and the tournament. Russia was trying to build pressure against Czech team, which was literally out of gas, but instead the game was spoiled by the diving that started to take place.

Siberian is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 02:13 PM
  #33
Reds4Life
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Reds4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Czech Republic
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,516
vCash: 500
Russians failed to score against much weaker Czech team for about 50 minutes. No way they deserved to win. Also, a Russian player gave an elbow to Koukal's head seconds before this hit on Jagr - no penalty was called.
Russians were a great group of individuals, but very poor team. They lost as they should have.

As for the diving, give yourself a slap. Malkin attacked Mojzis 50 cm from the referee, what did you expect? The only dive I recall was the ridiculous Vokoun acting, but that's about it.

Russia sucked and they lost. It happens.

Reds4Life is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 02:18 PM
  #34
JeromeHP
@Jerome_Berube
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,580
vCash: 500
i don't really care about this thread

what i care is to get Emelin to Montreal for next season

JeromeHP is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 02:18 PM
  #35
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
Russians failed to score against much weaker Czech team for about 50 minutes. No way they deserved to win. Also, a Russian player gave an elbow to Koukal's head seconds before this hit on Jagr - no penalty was called.
Russians were a great group of individuals, but very poor team. They lost as they should have.

As for the diving, give yourself a slap. Malkin attacked Mojzis 50 cm from the referee, what did you expect?

Russia sucked and they lost. It happens.

You complaining about incidental collision, seriously? There is a thick line between a ticky tack call and an obvious diving. I never compained about ticky tack penalties when Czech scored the goals. First goal came after Semin was interfered with and second goal came after Fedorov was tripped and lost the puck, I am not complaining about that.

Siberian is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 02:20 PM
  #36
DogsFan*
GHG
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Why? Because of 5+20 minute penalty, which was followed by another 2 minute Russian penalty, you take a dive and you make your opponent shorthanded for 7 minutes with 10 minutes left, what is so hard to understand?
Ok, so say he took a dive. The 5+20 penalty is on the board already. Nothing is stopping him from coming back onto the ice and playing...

DogsFan* is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 02:25 PM
  #37
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsFan View Post
Ok, so say he took a dive. The 5+20 penalty is on the board already. Nothing is stopping him from coming back onto the ice and playing...
It's obvious, if he comes back in the next while then he obviously faked it and ref may punish the czechs.

Siberian is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 02:52 PM
  #38
jagrgodr
Registered User
 
jagrgodr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,413
vCash: 500
Watch the last 60 seconds again siberian. You can see jagr slowly skate to the group and hugs a player before the group. He starts to skate to the group and the camera cuts to russians. When it comes back you can see that Jagr is on the left hand side of the group, he is the one with the blue helmet. He is leaning over and he is NOT jumping up and down. You need to pay attention before you make accusations because he wasn't jumping around.

I don't know if the penalty was dirty or not, so i have no comment about it. I do, however, know that the previous hit on the other guy was very bad and there was no call. It seemed obvious to me that they missed that call and when the russians hit Jagr with 10 minutes left in the game it is easy to understand why they made it a major penalty. Maybe they thought the russians had given up and were just going out there bashing all the czechs and were trying to send a message to the Russians.

jagrgodr is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 03:08 PM
  #39
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,539
vCash: 500
Just recently a soccer player died on the field in Hungary if I remember it correctly. Prior to that when the player was lying on the field the referee gave him a yellow card for the delay of game. He thought the player was faking an injury while in fact he was having a heart attack. I feel sorry for the referee but I want to point out that the reason for that is that because soccer has become an embarassing sport because of all the diving. I know the Russian hockey players dive a lot too, I was extremely disappointed with the embarassing dive Morozov commited against Canada in the qfinal in Vancouver, it was so obvious and laughable, worst thing is that a canadian was sent to the box. Diving in hockey should be fought as much as possible. Faking the injuries is 10 times worse because when the actual injury happens it is bad. I have no doubt Jagr did dive, I watch hockey for a long time and I see an injury, you don't have to be a professor. This kills the sport.

Siberian is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 03:25 PM
  #40
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemfel View Post
1. It was a low check. That's a clipping penalty.

2. The penalty caused an obvious injury. That's an automatic game misconduct per IIHF rules.
Lowering your body to deliver a check on or below the knees is a clip under IIHF rules - and that was a clip.
Quote:
524 - CLIPPING

a) A player who lowers his own body position to deliver a check on or below an opponents’ knees...
http://www.iihf.com/fileadmin/user_u...s_part_two.pdf

As noted an injury caused by a clip draws at minimum a major and game misconduct or a match penalty if it was a deliberate attempt to injure.

Wetcoaster is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 03:31 PM
  #41
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,539
vCash: 500
From the IIHF rulebook

“Clipping” is the act of throwing the body
across or below the knee of an opponent, charging,
or falling into the knees of an opponent after
approaching him from behind, side or front.


524 - CLIPPING
a) A player who lowers his own body position to deliver a check on or below an
opponents’ knees, shall be assessed, at the discretion of the Referee, a:
➤ Minor penalty (2’)
or
➤ Major penalty + Automatic Game Misconduct penalty (5’+GM)
or
➤ Match penalty (MP)
b) A player who injures his opponent by a clipping action, shall be assessed, at the
discretion of the Referee a:
➤ Major penalty + Automatic Game Misconduct penalty (5’+GM)
or
➤ Match penalty (MP)

Siberian is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 03:36 PM
  #42
hpheikki
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
Russians failed to score against much weaker Czech team for about 50 minutes. No way they deserved to win. Also, a Russian player gave an elbow to Koukal's head seconds before this hit on Jagr - no penalty was called.
Russians were a great group of individuals, but very poor team. They lost as they should have.

As for the diving, give yourself a slap. Malkin attacked Mojzis 50 cm from the referee, what did you expect? The only dive I recall was the ridiculous Vokoun acting, but that's about it.

Russia sucked and they lost. It happens.
Lately quite often.

The finnish referee said in a interview, that he has no regrets about the call. He said it was a clear case of clipping.

hpheikki is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 03:37 PM
  #43
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
From the IIHF rulebook

“Clipping” is the act of throwing the body
across or below the knee of an opponent, charging,
or falling into the knees of an opponent after
approaching him from behind, side or front.


524 - CLIPPING
a) A player who lowers his own body position to deliver a check on or below an
opponents’ knees, shall be assessed, at the discretion of the Referee, a:
➤ Minor penalty (2’)
or
➤ Major penalty + Automatic Game Misconduct penalty (5’+GM)
or
➤ Match penalty (MP)
b) A player who injures his opponent by a clipping action, shall be assessed, at the
discretion of the Referee a:
➤ Major penalty + Automatic Game Misconduct penalty (5’+GM)
or
➤ Match penalty (MP)
So it was a clip and the correct call was made.

Wetcoaster is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 03:40 PM
  #44
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
So it was a clip and the correct call was made.
It would have been correct if the hit was on or below the knees and Jagr got realy hurt. As you can see on the video the contact was made above the knees which is considered a clean check. On the other hand the second goal by czechs should have been disallowed based on this rule because Fedorov got clipped by a czech player, where he was clearly clipped below his knees.


Siberian is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 03:42 PM
  #45
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,838
vCash: 500
Not a fan of the IIHF's automatic rules, but by those rules, the injury on what was a textbook clipping play warrants 5 + 20. He went in too low on Jagr. It's across or below the knee, not solely below.

Drake1588 is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 03:43 PM
  #46
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 31,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
Not a fan of the IIHF's automatic rules, but by those rules, the injury on what was a textbook clipping play warrants 5 + 20. He went in too low on Jagr.
Is there some other replay that people are seeing where this is a low hit? The one in this thread clearly shows contact in the mid/low thigh area, which is legal.

tarheelhockey is online now  
Old
05-25-2010, 03:44 PM
  #47
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
Not a fan of the IIHF's automatic rules, but by those rules, the injury on what was a textbook clipping play warrants 5 + 20. He went in too low on Jagr.
Clipping is a great rule, because you try to protect the players from being deliberately injured by other players. Sometimes you see those clippings and you go ouch. It wasn't anything like that, Jagr's knee was fine.

Siberian is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 03:45 PM
  #48
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,838
vCash: 500
I thought that Jagr is going to be out for two months with the injury sustained on the play?

Drake1588 is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 03:48 PM
  #49
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
I thought that Jagr is going to be out for two months with the injury sustained on the play?
Yeah, drinking and gambling for two months, otherwise he surely would have played for Chicago or perhaps Philadelphia.

Siberian is offline  
Old
05-25-2010, 04:00 PM
  #50
Snoil11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 3,336
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Snoil11 Send a message via Yahoo to Snoil11
I also think that the game misconduct was a bad call, but so was the no-call on Tereshenko's hit a few moments earlier. Anyways, one mistake does not make another one right.

Snoil11 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:17 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.