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Halak wants to take time before thinking new contract

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Old
05-26-2010, 10:35 AM
  #126
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You know...Halak's half a season + playoff run resembles alot of what Carey Price did his rookie year, except Price and the Habs lost in round 2 in 5 games while Halak and the Habs lost in round 3 in 5 games.

What's the lesson to learn here? NEITHER goalie is quite proven yet...It's not out of the question that Halak starts the year next year and struggles and Price plays well and the situations are reversed.

The jury is still very much out on both goalies....so why not take advantage of the luxury the CBA affords teams and let either goalie establish himself as the clear cut #1 goalie.

again, the Habs have TWO terrific young goalies who both have shown to have alot of talent and who both have shown an ability to carry their teams but who also have shown that they can't do it for a FULL NHL season.

It's 2nd down and 10 in terms of Halak/Price and this contract situation (a little football analogy here)...why everyone here wants to go for the TD with more downs left, is completely beyond me.

But then again, it's typical Habs fans behaviour
Nothing to do, seriously...

We have a great opportunity to improve the team in the short AND long term. We know there's a market for goalies, as a lot of teams will be looking for one this summer, and we DO know both of our guys have some serious value around the NHL.

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05-26-2010, 10:35 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Halak can request a trade if we wants and you can retain him if you want, but why keep a goalie that doesn't want to play for you? Should the situation arise of course. Otherwise, I want to keep both and there's no need to move them out NOW, it's merely a situation where management has to start making a plan about the two of them and who stays and who goes.
Price or Halak will make that decision FOR them...right now, if you look at Price and Halak's career, they're pretty much mirror images.

Two guys who have proven they can be brilliant, but also inconsistent and neither has shown they can handle the load for a FULL season.

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05-26-2010, 10:35 AM
  #128
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Halak for the win!

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05-26-2010, 10:40 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
Nothing to do, seriously...

We have a great opportunity to improve the team in the short AND long term. We know there's a market for goalies, as a lot of teams will be looking for one this summer, and we DO know both of our guys have some serious value around the NHL.
Really? What's the market for goalies?

What teams are looking for goalies?

Also, there ARE other goalies available contrary to what everyone assumes...

I'm not saying I wouldn't trade either of Halak or Price...if the right package came along for either, i'd pull the trigger in one second. I just think it's a reach to assume teams will be lining up offers for either goalie.

Just look at all the goalie transactions the last few years...the return is bare. Hell, some teams like the Ducks had to put much more proven goalies like Bryzgalov on waivers because no one wanted to anty up in a deal...

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05-26-2010, 10:44 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Price or Halak will make that decision FOR them...right now, if you look at Price and Halak's career, they're pretty much mirror images.

Two guys who have proven they can be brilliant, but also inconsistent and neither has shown they can handle the load for a FULL season.
dont agree much here, i think halak has showed since he started with the habs is his consitency (or hard work), which is something price lacks. Talent/skill wise, thats debatable since halak has greatly improved this year. though I (not 'most fans ) still think price got the upside when it comes to talent. but thats very debatable.

also, from ckac website
"Plus que jamais je demeure convaincu que Carey Price est le gardien d'avenir des Canadiens" -Jacques Demers

"Price a du talent mais Halak l'a devancé..." -Bob Hartley

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05-26-2010, 10:46 AM
  #131
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He wants to know if he's going to be the no1 or not before signing a new contract.

I bet a lot that if Price is traded before offer sheets period, Halak will sign ASAP with a big fat smile on his face.

He doesn't trust the organization about his status, and rightfully so, he doesn't have much negociation tools, except offer sheets and arbitration... so, he'll wait for this period, first...

I don't get what's the big deal here... he's no ****ing Dany Heatley.

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05-26-2010, 10:47 AM
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Hell, some teams like the Ducks had to put much more proven goalies like Bryzgalov on waivers because no one wanted to anty up in a deal...
We're talking about the same ****** who traded 2 1st pick for Kessel.

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05-26-2010, 10:50 AM
  #133
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dont agree much here, i think halak has showed since he started with the habs is his consitency (or hard work), which is something price lacks. Talent/skill wise, thats debatable since halak has greatly improved this year. though I (not 'most fans ) still think price got the upside when it comes to talent. but thats very debatable.

also, from ckac website
"Plus que jamais je demeure convaincu que Carey Price est le gardien d'avenir des Canadiens" -Jacques Demers

"Price a du talent mais Halak l'a devancé..." -Bob Hartley
You can't quantify that...hard work is subjective. That's your opinion...no one really knows how hard Price work. None of us here are in the coaching staff...

But really, I wasn't talking about that...I was saying Price & Halak in terms of their play in the NHL, so far for their career have proven about the same thing

Halak - 101 games played, 56 wins, 2.62 GAA, 919. sv %

Price - 134 games played, 60 wins, 2.73GAA, 912. sv%

I don't know how you can say one is more proven than the other...

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05-26-2010, 10:54 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You can't quantify that...hard work is subjective. That's your opinion...no one really knows how hard Price work.
But really, I wasn't talking about that...I was saying Price & Halak in terms of their play in the NHL, so far for their career have proven about the same thing

Halak - 101 games played, 56 wins, 2.62 GAA, 919. sv %

Price - 134 games played, 60 wins, 2.73GAA, 912. sv%

I don't know how you can say one is more proven than the other...
Give me a ****ing break... Before the end of this year, everybody kept saying how he was slacking off and not actually putting efforts in his game as much as Halak did.

Hell, Melanson said he never coached any player working as hard as Halak does.

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05-26-2010, 10:57 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
Nothing to do, seriously...

We have a great opportunity to improve the team in the short AND long term. We know there's a market for goalies, as a lot of teams will be looking for one this summer, and we DO know both of our guys have some serious value around the NHL.
What I don't get is that you think going from having 2 solid, young goalies to 1 isn't an issue. We can improve our team through signings or by trading players other than Halak/Price. If we keep both, we can pretty much be guaranteed that we'll have a solid goalie in nets for 82+ games next year. Trade one away, and we lose that advantage.

I agree that there are areas of the team that are weak that should be upgraded, but trading away one of our goalies would just be cutting one of our greater strengths in half.

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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You can't quantify that...hard work is subjective. That's your opinion...no one really knows how hard Price work. None of us here are in the coaching staff...

But really, I wasn't talking about that...I was saying Price & Halak in terms of their play in the NHL, so far for their career have proven about the same thing

Halak - 101 games played, 56 wins, 2.62 GAA, 919. sv %

Price - 134 games played, 60 wins, 2.73GAA, 912. sv%

I don't know how you can say one is more proven than the other...
Its quite easy. Sports fans in general (and Habs fans in particular) have a very short memory. Lots of these fans were probably singing the exact same tune about Theodore, Huet, Price, etc. after they had successful runs. In their minds, after this season, Halak is entirely proven and is CLEARLY better. It doesn't matter that he hasn't actually had a full year as a starting goalie, he has somehow still proven himself as a true #1. I admire your attempts to reason with this wing of the fanbase, but think you are wasting your time if you really believe you can make them believe otherwise.

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05-26-2010, 10:59 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You can't quantify that...hard work is subjective. That's your opinion...no one really knows how hard Price work.

But really, I wasn't talking about that...I was saying Price & Halak in terms of their play in the NHL, so far for their career have proven about the same thing

Halak - 101 games played, 56 wins, 2.62 GAA, 919. sv %

Price - 134 games played, 60 wins, 2.73GAA, 912. sv%

I don't know how you can say one is more proven than the other...
yea it is an opinion. and it has nothing to do with proven imo. i want hard work and skills. also im big price fan, so no doubt i include the past season in my reasoning (which is alot of if's and but's until situation is resolved by managment )

and im sure you can quantify consistency ('hard work'); it would be represented with a curve of some sort, more then a few numbers imo

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05-26-2010, 11:01 AM
  #137
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What I don't get is that you think going from having 2 solid, young goalies to 1 isn't an issue. We can improve our team through signings or by trading players other than Halak/Price. If we keep both, we can pretty much be guaranteed that we'll have a solid goalie in nets for 82+ games next year. Trade one away, and we lose that advantage.

I agree that there are areas of the team that are weak that should be upgraded, but trading away one of our goalies would just be cutting one of our greater strengths in half.
I might be an issue, but much less than having to play Pyatt and Darche as journeymen on the top-6, or Gorges like a first-pairing d-man.

With the salary cap, you MUST weaken one area of your team to make another one stronger. That's how it goes.

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05-26-2010, 11:03 AM
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Give me a ****ing break... Before the end of this year, everybody kept saying how he was slacking off and not actually putting efforts in his game as much as Halak did.

Hell, Melanson said he never coached any player working as hard as Halak does.
Who the hell is 'EVERYBODY'????

Is this the same EVERYBODY, who kept saying that Price had a bad attitude until it was revealed that he lambasted Sergei Kostitsyn for not putting in extra time with the players who weren't playing.

Please...

As for Melanson, yeah he did say...but that doesn't mean Price doesn't work hard. It's just a testament to how hard Halak does work. Why does it have to be a slight to Price??? Alot of what's said about some players personalities is individual interpretation, often times by the media and they present it as fact.

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05-26-2010, 11:06 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
I might be an issue, but much less than having to play Pyatt and Darche as journeymen on the top-6, or Gorges like a first-pairing d-man.

With the salary cap, you MUST weaken one area of your team to make another one stronger. That's how it goes.
LOL really? Not sure that's entirely accurate...

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05-26-2010, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You know...Halak's half a season + playoff run resembles alot of what Carey Price did his rookie year, except Price and the Habs lost in round 2 in 5 games while Halak and the Habs lost in round 3 in 5 games.

What's the lesson to learn here? NEITHER goalie is quite proven yet...It's not out of the question that Halak starts the year next year and struggles and Price plays well and the situations are reversed.

The jury is still very much out on both goalies....so why not take advantage of the luxury the CBA affords teams and let either goalie establish himself as the clear cut #1 goalie.

again, the Habs have TWO terrific young goalies who both have shown to have alot of talent and who both have shown an ability to carry their teams but who also have shown that they can't do it for a FULL NHL season.

It's 2nd down and 10 in terms of Halak/Price and this contract situation (a little football analogy here)...why everyone here wants to go for the TD with more downs left, is completely beyond me.

But then again, it's typical Habs fans behaviour
I don't dispute that keeping both would be the best thing for this team right now, at least from a goaltending perspective.

However, you have to look at it from player's perspective as well. Halak doesn't have much choice this year if the team wants to keep both goalies, but if they make a decision that shows they don't believe in him now, I think he bolts next year once he's unrestricted. After the season he just had there's no way Jaro is going to be satisfied with sitting on the bench for around 40 games and when you add that to all the times he's already been passed over, I just don't see how he'd be willing to stick around any longer.

We have flexibility with Price because nobody can say he hasn't been given all kinds of chances and we control his rights for a couple more years. With Halak, I see only two viable options -- make him the #1 goalie on this team and sign him to a multi-year contract or trade him while his value is sky high. If you force both goalies to stick around next year I doubt Halak's value will be any higher at the deadline and if he gets injured, we'll lose him for nothing.

Gauthier has to choose before the season starts.

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05-26-2010, 11:10 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post



Its quite easy. Sports fans in general (and Habs fans in particular) have a very short memory. Lots of these fans were probably singing the exact same tune about Theodore, Huet, Price, etc. after they had successful runs. In their minds, after this season, Halak is entirely proven and is CLEARLY better. It doesn't matter that he hasn't actually had a full year as a starting goalie, he has somehow still proven himself as a true #1. I admire your attempts to reason with this wing of the fanbase, but think you are wasting your time if you really believe you can make them believe otherwise.
Well said...and you're right, I should probably take your advice.

It's really shocking how short of a memory span some of our fans have.

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05-26-2010, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by the_crippler12 View Post
Halak for the win!
Even Halak cant stop them

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05-26-2010, 11:14 AM
  #143
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LOL really? Not sure that's entirely accurate...
Then keep hiding your head in the sand.

Price regressed since his rookie year, but the guy SUUUUURE had a great work ethic, even if every single media kept repeating how he wasn't a very hard worker...

And now, you can improve your team without giving good pieces to make an area of weakness stronger? Ok... I guess I am the only one to think it's logic to trade a player playing the position where you're strong to improve your weak areas...

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05-26-2010, 11:14 AM
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Even Halak cant stop them
Nope... 5th hole

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05-26-2010, 11:15 AM
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I don't dispute that keeping both would be the best thing for this team right now, at least from a goaltending perspective.

However, you have to look at it from player's perspective as well. Halak doesn't have much choice this year if the team wants to keep both goalies, but if they make a decision that shows they don't believe in him now, I think he bolts next year once he's unrestricted. After the season he just had there's no way Jaro is going to be satisfied with sitting on the bench for around 40 games and when you add that to all the times he's already been passed over, I just don't see how he'd be willing to stick around any longer.

We have flexibility with Price because nobody can say he hasn't been given all kinds of chances and we control his rights for a couple more years. With Halak, I see only two viable options -- make him the #1 goalie on this team and sign him to a multi-year contract or trade him while his value is sky high. If you force both goalies to stick around next year I doubt Halak's value will be any higher at the deadline and if he gets injured, we'll lose him for nothing.

Gauthier has to choose before the season starts.
But he IS the # 1 goalie of the Habs as of today...and when next season starts, he'll be the 'defacto #1' goalie as well. He's just not gonna have as much rope as say...Martin Brodeur or Roberto Luongo. That's not disrespect, that's just how it goes for a goalie who doesn't even have ONE full season as an NHL starting goaltender.

Halak will get a bridge deal up until his UFA years, and if he performs like a #1 goalie...then he'll get paid like one in 2 years.

But for now, he hasn't proven enough to say he should be given a long term deal as an undisputed #1 goalie.

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05-26-2010, 11:17 AM
  #146
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Halak for the win!
God bless our fans.

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05-26-2010, 11:17 AM
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I might be an issue, but much less than having to play Pyatt and Darche as journeymen on the top-6, or Gorges like a first-pairing d-man.

With the salary cap, you MUST weaken one area of your team to make another one stronger. That's how it goes.
Lets say I agree with your assessment of the team's weaknesses. There are other ways to fill those holes than trading one of our goalies (FAs, trading other players, Hamilton, etc.). My argument is that, right now, we have the luxury of having two great YOUNG, RFA goalies. Those words are important precisely because we are in a cap world, where neither is getting paid what they will be when they are 30. In a cap world you KEEP young talent, you don't trade it away. One day, we'll need to decide between Halak/Price, but that day is not today.

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I don't dispute that keeping both would be the best thing for this team right now, at least from a goaltending perspective.

However, you have to look at it from player's perspective as well. Halak doesn't have much choice this year if the team wants to keep both goalies, but if they make a decision that shows they don't believe in him now, I think he bolts next year once he's unrestricted. After the season he just had there's no way Jaro is going to be satisfied with sitting on the bench for around 40 games and when you add that to all the times he's already been passed over, I just don't see how he'd be willing to stick around any longer.

We have flexibility with Price because nobody can say he hasn't been given all kinds of chances and we control his rights for a couple more years. With Halak, I see only two viable options -- make him the #1 goalie on this team and sign him to a multi-year contract or trade him while his value is sky high. If you force both goalies to stick around next year I doubt Halak's value will be any higher at the deadline and if he gets injured, we'll lose him for nothing.

Gauthier has to choose before the season starts.
This type of comment absolutely baffles me. Halak's performance this year should affect his ability to negotiate his next contract. That's about it. What Halak did this year should in NO way guarantee him any number of games next year. If Halak wants to be the goalie of this team, then go out next year and prove it. If he can play better than Price/other goalie, then he will get more starts. If the Price/other goalie outperforms him, he won't get as many starts. I think management has shown this year that they will play the better goalie... period.

Halak is a 25 year-old RFA who hasn't even played a full season as a starter. He does not deserve to just get 60+ starts next season, he needs to continue this level of play and show that he deserves it. This has nothing to do with a team 'believing' in him or not and bringing back both Halak and Price would have nothing to do with the team 'believing' in either one. That being said, I think Halak understands this; fans who think otherwise are just out to lunch.


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05-26-2010, 11:19 AM
  #148
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Then keep hiding your head in the sand.

Price regressed since his rookie year, but the guy SUUUUURE had a great work ethic, even if every single media kept repeating how he wasn't a very hard worker...

And now, you can improve your team without giving good pieces to make an area of weakness stronger? Ok... I guess I am the only one to think it's logic to trade a player playing the position where you're strong to improve your weak areas...
So let me get this straight...

On one hand, you say that Price has regressed since his rookie year...but on the other hand, you're advocating trading him and a team giving up 'good pieces' for a player who even YOU say has regressed...

Does that make sense to you? Seems like you're contradicting yourself...

You're saying Price has regressed, yet you think the Habs can improve their team by acquiring players for an asset whose value has declined.

And MY head is buried in the sand huh?

Edit - Also, i don't agree that Price has regressed since his rookie year. I think he's going through the normal ups and downs of a goalie who is 22yrs old. Contrary to popular belief, Carey Price is not a finished product yet.

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05-26-2010, 11:20 AM
  #149
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I just can't get how anybody would want to keep both, knowing we have some SERIOUS ISSUES to solve and holes to fill in the organization, not only for the short-term, but on long-term as far as forwards are concerned. We just don't have that big, young forward to build around in the future. We might not have huge issues right now, but there's just nothing coming up anytime soon is the system as far as forwards are concerned. I'm not saying Pacioretty is a bust. Although, he just lost two important years of development, and I can't see any gamebreaker potential in him.

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05-26-2010, 11:24 AM
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So let me get this straight...

On one hand, you say that Price has regressed since his rookie year...but on the other hand, you're advocating trading him and a team giving up 'good pieces' for a player who even YOU say has regressed...

Does that make sense to you? Seems like you're contradicting yourself...

You're saying Price has regressed, yet you think the Habs can improve their team by acquiring players for an asset whose value has declined.

And MY head is buried in the sand huh?
If he still is the backup goalie one year from now, do you think his value will have gone up?

What about if Halak regresses? Do you think he'll have improved his value?

Price still is very young, and it could be tempting for other teams to bite and give a huge return for him...

Halak probably was the biggest story of those playoffs in the NHL, many teams would give a more than decent return for him...

And you actually want to keep one of our best asset (whoever it is) on the bench for 40-50-60 games? Yeah, great assets management here... Let's wait until Halak hits unrestricted free agency, and let's let him leave for nothing...

You've got to learn something from your mistakes at some point.

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