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Old
05-29-2010, 06:59 PM
  #26
saywut
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Originally Posted by maltesefalcon View Post
I think Matthew Lombardi would be great centering Havlat and Latendresse. Will he really be asking for the 3.5-4 range cap hit wise?
Is he a worse player than Matt Stajan? How about Antoine Vermette? David Bolland?

I cannot see Lombardi getting less than 3.5M per, most likely on a 4 year contract. And I wouldn't want to make that commitment.

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05-29-2010, 10:58 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
i think we'll let him move on. i've been hoping he'd show something for the last few years (excluding his stint in the KHL) but he hasn't impressed at all in his call-ups. I was hoping he'd at least be a clutterbuck type, but he's been invisible when he's out there under both Lemaire and Richards.
To be fair, he only had 1 game with Richards, but we may just qualify him. Let's face it, we don't have a ton of talent in the organization, we might as well keep him.

About Matthew Lombardi, I don't really want to commit 4 years to him, and I think he'll re-sign in Phoenix. We'll see what kind of money he signs for, but I don't think it will be here and we should keep our options open by getting a 1-2 year deal.

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05-29-2010, 11:11 PM
  #28
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I hate to disappoint you guys but don't expect big signings that will cripple the team in the future.I've been told that we know were not good enough to contend and that were rebuilding but were trying to stay competitive while doing it. CF wont make any trades that will hurt the team in the future and if he does make trades then think Lats and Barker type moves.

Trade Market
Burns(only if its a cant refuse offer as he's close to UNT)
Goalie(most likely Harding)
Sheppard(might need a change of scenery)
Miettenen(might have too big a cap hit?

FA targets
anyone who is young and can help us in the future.

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05-30-2010, 12:04 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by MTLjunior View Post
I hate to disappoint you guys but don't expect big signings that will cripple the team in the future.I've been told that we know were not good enough to contend and that were rebuilding but were trying to stay competitive while doing it. CF wont make any trades that will hurt the team in the future and if he does make trades then think Lats and Barker type moves.

Trade Market
Burns(only if its a cant refuse offer as he's close to UNT)
Goalie(most likely Harding)
Sheppard(might need a change of scenery)
Miettenen(might have too big a cap hit?

FA targets
anyone who is young and can help us in the future.
I agree with all of this; however, my thought was if you can move Harding + Miettenen and pick up a guy like Backes who can score some goals and be a physical presence. Then move on perhaps a player like Cullen to center the 2nd line you could be competitive until some of the younger players are ready to contribute.

The next two drafts with 5 picks in the top 100 this year the possibility of drafting top 10 again next year are both huge.

I believe a team like this could possibly even sneak into the playoffs next year:

Wellman/Koivu/Brunette
Latendresse/Cullen/Havlat
Clutterbuck/Bouchard/Backes
Kassian/Brodziak/Kobasew
Sheppard

Burns/Barker
Schultz/Stoner
Zanon/Zidlicky
Hnidy

Backs/Khudobin

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Old
05-30-2010, 09:04 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by NM Squirts View Post
I agree with all of this; however, my thought was if you can move Harding + Miettenen and pick up a guy like Backes who can score some goals and be a physical presence. Then move on perhaps a player like Cullen to center the 2nd line you could be competitive until some of the younger players are ready to contribute.

The next two drafts with 5 picks in the top 100 this year the possibility of drafting top 10 again next year are both huge.

I believe a team like this could possibly even sneak into the playoffs next year:

Wellman/Koivu/Brunette
Latendresse/Cullen/Havlat
Clutterbuck/Bouchard/Backes
Kassian/Brodziak/Kobasew
Sheppard

Burns/Barker
Schultz/Stoner
Zanon/Zidlicky
Hnidy

Backs/Khudobin
I think that if we can get Backes he could shift to play 2nd line center as Cullen's more of a 3rd line guy.Also none of Hackett,Harding and Backstrom have the #1 guy going into the future and its possible that someone else takes that role.

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05-30-2010, 02:02 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Is he a worse player than Matt Stajan? How about Antoine Vermette? David Bolland?

I cannot see Lombardi getting less than 3.5M per, most likely on a 4 year contract. And I wouldn't want to make that commitment.
I agree. That's quite a commitment but he is a fast / sniper / center that others have pointed out is what our second line needs. I don't know who else we should target for that role but I do agree, I don't think I would sign him for that long either.

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05-30-2010, 03:21 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by MTLjunior View Post
I hate to disappoint you guys but don't expect big signings that will cripple the team in the future.I've been told that we know were not good enough to contend and that were rebuilding but were trying to stay competitive while doing it. CF wont make any trades that will hurt the team in the future and if he does make trades then think Lats and Barker type moves.

Trade Market
Burns(only if its a cant refuse offer as he's close to UNT)
Goalie(most likely Harding)
Sheppard(might need a change of scenery)
Miettenen(might have too big a cap hit?

FA targets
anyone who is young and can help us in the future.
Are you a part of the team or just trying to be Eklund?

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Old
05-30-2010, 03:46 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
Are you a part of the team or just trying to be Eklund?
Neither.


Last edited by BLBarmada: 05-30-2010 at 08:31 PM.
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Old
05-31-2010, 03:12 PM
  #34
nickschultzfan
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Revising my previous post, in light of the increase 2 million in cap.

Again, sign Plekanec (5m) and Jokinen (3.5m), and dump Bouchard for a 4th liner + a pick (package him with Harding).

Now, dump Kobasew (package with Sheppard) for a prospect or something, and sign Frolov (4.5m)

Lats-Plekanec-Havlat
Bruno-Koivu-Frolov
Clutter-Jokinen-Miettinen
Kassian-Brodziak-Y

That's some offensive lines.

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Old
05-31-2010, 06:36 PM
  #35
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Yuck.

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Old
05-31-2010, 11:03 PM
  #36
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So that's basically the New York Knicks method of clearing cap space and hope the top free agents sign there, right?

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05-31-2010, 11:29 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Revising my previous post, in light of the increase 2 million in cap.

Again, sign Plekanec (5m) and Jokinen (3.5m), and dump Bouchard for a 4th liner + a pick (package him with Harding).

Now, dump Kobasew (package with Sheppard) for a prospect or something, and sign Frolov (4.5m)

Lats-Plekanec-Havlat
Bruno-Koivu-Frolov
Clutter-Jokinen-Miettinen
Kassian-Brodziak-Y

That's some offensive lines.
The problem with this is you won't be able to move PMB even as a salary dump. The other thing, I'm not sure I would want to dump PMB in favor of having Jokinen even as a 3rd line center. From what I've heard he is poison to a teams chemistry.

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06-01-2010, 03:32 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Revising my previous post, in light of the increase 2 million in cap.

Again, sign Plekanec (5m) and Jokinen (3.5m), and dump Bouchard for a 4th liner + a pick (package him with Harding).

Now, dump Kobasew (package with Sheppard) for a prospect or something, and sign Frolov (4.5m)

Lats-Plekanec-Havlat
Bruno-Koivu-Frolov
Clutter-Jokinen-Miettinen
Kassian-Brodziak-Y

That's some offensive lines.
That's...ugly.

Dump Kobasew after we gave up a ton for him?

Who the hell would want Bouchard? Not only is he broken but he's expensive. Jokinen is soft and under achieving. Want nothing to do with him.

And sign Plekanec to 5 million a year? What do we do with Koivu next year? And then Burns the year after that?

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06-01-2010, 09:43 AM
  #39
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Fine, keep Bouchard and Kobasew, but dump Miettinen - who's value is probably the highest it's ever going to be.

Jokinen is fine. Everything ever bad said about him is pure speculation. He didn't fit with Phoenix or Calgary. Big deal. He was expected to be an older vet in Phoenix and a center for Iginla in Calgary. On the Wild, he was just be asked to keep his mouth shut and shoot the passes Bouchard gives him. Sign him to a short-term deal.

Lats-Plekanec-Havlat
Bruno-Koivu-Kobasew
Clutterbuck-Jokinen-Bouchard
Kassian-Brodizak-Y

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Old
06-01-2010, 11:44 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Fine, keep Bouchard and Kobasew, but dump Miettinen - who's value is probably the highest it's ever going to be.

Jokinen is fine. Everything ever bad said about him is pure speculation. He didn't fit with Phoenix or Calgary. Big deal. He was expected to be an older vet in Phoenix and a center for Iginla in Calgary. On the Wild, he was just be asked to keep his mouth shut and shoot the passes Bouchard gives him. Sign him to a short-term deal.

Lats-Plekanec-Havlat
Bruno-Koivu-Kobasew
Clutterbuck-Jokinen-Bouchard
Kassian-Brodizak-Y
Mittens' value can be higher, but it would take another season like last year.

And on the Jokinen subject:
1. When did the Wild have him?
2. It's hard to suggest something from Bouchard when he's not ready to come back.
3. As a top free agent in a weak forward free agent class, this is his money contract. Jokinen is not signing a short-term deal unless there is a lot of coin behind it.

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06-01-2010, 11:53 AM
  #41
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Jokinen has been a cancer in every room he's been in (your list omitted the Rangers and Panthers as well). This team is going to be mediocre - bad enough, no need to have some clown shoe in the room getting under everyone's skin.

The Wild don't need to go out and throw a bunch of money around to an extremely undesirable free agency class. They've got enough of those type of players/contracts on this team as it is.

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06-01-2010, 12:52 PM
  #42
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Plekanec - Easy Decision
Regardless of how you think of this year's UFA class, Plekanec would be a top-6 center improvement over (1) anybody currently in the Wild system, (2) anybody the Wild could realistically draft, (3) anybody the Wild could realistically trade for and (4) any other center the Wild have had on the team ever, not named Koivu.

Not to mention that a top-6 center has been a position of need on this team since it's beginning.

Understanding that, it is a simple choice: the Wild should make a strong push for Plekanec. Yes, he has flaws (size, not a dominate player, disappears), but he's still better than anybody the Wild can get in the next 2-3 years (unless Wellman blows people away).

Jokinen - Only if the price is right
Again, the chances of Fletcher actually pulling off a trade for a top-6 forward, even if he can manage to sign Plekanec, is still very small. The Wild have no good trading pieces, and we can't take on a huge contract somebody wants to dump.

Jokinen price will be low. But his potential is high. Despite all the bashing of him over the past two seasons, he's still managed to get around 55 points. That's still a major improvement to the Wild's line-up. And, he's a shooter. And this team needs shooters. It's that simple.

People on HFboards love to call players "Cancers" because it requires zero research or proof, and it can easily dismiss a player who the poster doesn't like. I don't know if Jokinen really is an ass. But either do you. He could just be a bit odd who can get frustrated. Which is why you sign him to a short-term contract. Nobody else is going to give him a long-term deal either. And if they do, big deal. They get Jokinen and we don't. No loss.

Bouchard
If he plays, keep him and trade Miettinen. If he doesn't, keep Miettinen and play him as Jokinen's set-up man. Really not that complex.

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Old
06-01-2010, 01:05 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
People on HFboards love to call players "Cancers" because it requires zero research or proof, and it can easily dismiss a player who the poster doesn't like. I don't know if Jokinen really is an ass. But either do you.
I think being on 4 different teams in the past 3 years is a pretty good starting point to come to the conclusion that he just doesn't fit in. If he was decent locker room guy, while producing or not, teams wouldn't be so willing to move him given his track record.

And Plekanec is definately not a #1 center, nor is he an upgrade over Koivu. Ask Montreal fans how they feel about both of those points. Plekanec is nothing to get excited about and he's certainly not worth the money/length that will be thrown at him in the offseason.

The Wild aren't going to fix their problems in one offseason. And they're certainly not going to do so by throwing money around to the type of players you're suggesting. The Wild have to dig in for the long haul, not look for the quick fixes like you've thrown out.

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06-01-2010, 01:16 PM
  #44
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I think being on 4 different teams in the past 3 years is a pretty good starting point to come to the conclusion that he just doesn't fit in. If he was decent locker room guy, while producing or not, teams wouldn't be so willing to move him given his track record.

And Plekanec is definately not a #1 center, nor is he an upgrade over Koivu. Ask Montreal fans how they feel about both of those points. Plekanec is nothing to get excited about and he's certainly not worth the money/length that will be thrown at him in the offseason.

The Wild aren't going to fix their problems in one offseason. And they're certainly not going to do so by throwing money around to the type of players you're suggesting. The Wild have to dig in for the long haul, not look for the quick fixes like you've thrown out.
I didn't say Plekanec was an improvement over Koivu. In fact, I said he wasn't, but he would still be an improvement over anybody currently in the Wild system, or anybody they can realistically expect to get into the system in the next 2-3 years.

Plekanec would improve the Wild not just next season, but also over the next few years as the team improves. Bouchard isn't a center in the NHL. Wellman would probably look better as a goal-scoring winger. There is nobody else in the farm. And anybody we draft will be at least 3 years from making an impact, if not longer.

Jokinen would more or less be a temporary experiment. To see if he can get his game back, while finding a shooter for Bouchard - who clearly is worthless unless he has somebody to do the shooting for him. 1 year at 3.5m or 2 years at 6m. With Bruno, Kobasew, and Miettinen coming off the books after this season, that's plenty of extra room to re-sign Koivu and Burns.

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06-01-2010, 01:30 PM
  #45
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I didn't say Plekanec was an improvement over Koivu.
Fair enough. Misread your post.

However, regardless of what the Wild currently have on the roster or in the system I'm still not a fan of going after Plekanec for the term and price he'll recieve. Signing Plekanec isn't going to push this team over the top, I'd say far from it. I just don't see how you can commit that type of contract to him keeping in mind you've got much more important situations upcoming (Koivu, Latendresse & Burns) and are fairly tight against the cap as it is.

Sure, if the Wild wouldn't have guys like Schultz, Barker, and Zidlicky taking up the large chunks of pay role as they do I'd likely be a bit more receptive to the idea. But not in the Wild's current situation with Backstrom, Havlat, and Bouchard that take up significant portions of the cap in addition to the previous players I've mentioned. I just don't see any situation where it makes much sense signing Plekanec unless you can dump players like Schultz and Bouchard. And I highly doubt there's going to be suitors lining up to do so with those players.

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06-01-2010, 01:54 PM
  #46
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Well, let's hope Fletcher realizes the difference between a RFA and a UFA, because a lot of GMs and fans do not. It's not mean or disrepectful. It's just the only way teams can get under the cap without losing players.

Lats should only get 2.5m per year, tops. If he scores 25 goals a year for the next 2-3 seasons, then he can think about getting a huge paycheck. But right now, he's still a young, inconsistent RFA, and he should be treated like one.

Burns, while he has a huge ceiling, really hasn't earn the 3.55m per year he's currently getting. We have him for two more years. If he keeps improving, he will be a highly sought UFA. But, honestly, he's still will be a 5.0m Dman. Every team that has signed a Dman for over 5.5m has almost instantly regretted it. We should be able to make up 1.5m in cap space two years from now.

Koivu will receive a big raise, but, again, he's not a 7m per player. Somewhere between 5m and 6m sounds right. He currently makes 3.25. 3.25 + 2.33 = 5.58m per. That sounds correct. So, that means one of Kobasew, Bruno, or Miettinen is automatically gone. Not terrible considering how important Koivu is.

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06-01-2010, 03:04 PM
  #47
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Here's what the Wild roster currently looks like going into the 2011 season:
* I gave Latendresse the $2.5 you said he'd get (which he won't recieve that much on a one year RFA deal).
* Projected Harding to be back at the same deal he was at last season (it stands to reason he may get just a tad more).
* Projected the cap to rise by two million like Bettman stated (I'm not so sure it will).
* Given Bouchard is on roster, it's hard to discount him unless proven otherwise. So he's there.


FORWARDS
Martin Havlat $5,000,000
Pierre-Marc Bouchard $4,080,000
Mikko Koivu $3,250,000
Guillaume Latendresse $2,500,000
Andrew Brunette $2,333,333
Antti Miettinen $2,333,333
Chuck Kobasew $2,333,333
Cal Clutterbuck $1,400,000
Kyle Brodziak $1,150,000
DEFENSEMEN
Marek Zidlicky $4,000,000
Brent Burns $3,550,000
Nick Schultz $3,500,000
Cam Barker $3,083,333
Greg Zanon $1,933,333
GOALTENDERS
Niklas Backstrom $6,000,000
Josh Harding $1,100,000
BUYOUTS
Mark Parrish $927,778

PLAYERS 16
CAP HIT $48,474,445
CAP SPACE $10,325,555


Brunette Koivu Bouchard
Latendresse Havlat
Kobasew Brodziak Miettinen
Clutterbuck
Zidlicky Zanon
Burns Barker
Schultz
Backstrom
Harding

As it currently stands here, you're missing 4 players alone just off of the starting roster. Being generous, say at any given time there's 2 players in the press box. So you're looking at 6 more players that are going to be playing at NHL contracts. By my math, that's going to average out to roughly $1.7 million per player. Here's a few more of my projections to be on the Wild roster next season with holding any possible free agent.

FORWARDS
Martin Havlat $5,000,000
Pierre-Marc Bouchard $4,080,000
Mikko Koivu $3,250,000
Guillaume Latendresse $2,500,000
Andrew Brunette $2,333,333
Antti Miettinen $2,333,333
Chuck Kobasew $2,333,333
Cal Clutterbuck $1,400,000
Casey Wellman $1,350,000
Kyle Brodziak $1,150,000
Cody Almond $643,333
DEFENSEMEN
Marek Zidlicky $4,000,000
Brent Burns $3,550,000
Nick Schultz $3,500,000
Cam Barker $3,083,333
Greg Zanon $1,933,333
Clayton Stoner $550,000
GOALTENDERS
Niklas Backstrom $6,000,000
Josh Harding $1,100,000
BUYOUTS
Mark Parrish $927,778

PLAYERS 19
CAP HIT $51,017,778
CAP SPACE $7,782,222


Brunette Koivu Bouchard
Latendresse Havlat
Kobasew Brodziak Miettinen
Wellman Almond Clutterbuck
Zidlicky Zanon
Burns Barker
Schultz Stoner
Backstrom
Harding

So let's just say for the sake of doing this Almond, Wellman, and Stoner all begin the year on the roster. That takes up half of those 6 spots needed to fill out a NHL roster and we're already down to just under $8 million in cap space. They still would need to find a capable center to fill out the every day line up and another two players to be on the roster.

Lets be generous and say Plekanec signs for $5 million. You're now at $2.7 million. You've got to fill out 2 (and possibly more) spots at any given time during the NHL season and still stay under the cap. You're also going to be limited on just what players you can actually call up. That means players with decent sized bonus' like Gillies and Cuma may not get much of a chance. Not to mention Sheppard is really lost in the shuffle here. It also means that Plekanec is your only FA signee. And still, this is a pretty bad line up for what you're paying it.

Brunette Koivu Bouchard
Latendresse Plekanec Havlat
Kobasew Brodziak Miettinen
Wellman Almond Clutterbuck
Zidlicky Zanon
Burns Barker
Schultz Stoner
Backstrom
Harding

As for further down the line in 2011 - beyond, here's what you're looking at.
* Gave Koivu $5.5, it remains to be seen what exactly he'll get.
* Latendresse will likely be up for another contract as I don't see him signing more than a year this season.


FORWARDS
Mikko Koivu $5,500,000
Tomas Plekanec $5,000,000
Martin Havlat $5,000,000
Pierre-Marc Bouchard $4,080,000
Cal Clutterbuck $1,400,000
Kyle Brodziak $1,150,000
DEFENSEMEN
Marek Zidlicky $4,000,000
Brent Burns $3,550,000
Nick Schultz $3,500,000
Cam Barker $3,083,333
Greg Zanon $1,933,333
GOALTENDERS
Niklas Backstrom $6,000,000
BUYOUTS
Mark Parrish $927,778
PLAYERS 10
CAP SPACE $22,175,555


Looking ahead, that's crazy money to commit to just 10 players. Again, sure, I do like Plekanec. But not at the bind he'll put this team in, in relation to the actual effect he'll have on the team as a whole.

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06-01-2010, 04:40 PM
  #48
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Our line-up won't be good next year, so I don't see why a player like Jokinen, who will try to revive his career, would have interest signing to be our 3rd line center, regardless of money. Plekanec IMO we'd have to overpay, 5M per would be generous.

We're cap-strapped no matter how you put it. 6.5M for our #4 and 5 d-men. 6M for 3 bottom 6 wingers. 6M for an average goalie(add another 1+ for the back-up as I don't see Harding being moved). 4M for a guy who may never play again.

If there's 2 things I'd love to see, its a Nick Schultz trade and a Pierre-Marc Bouchard retirement. But considering their contracts, I don't see either happening.

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06-01-2010, 04:57 PM
  #49
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Harding - Must be moved, even if it's 50 cents on the dollar. You can't pay a back-up 1.1 million when your starter makes 6m. Get a cheap-back. They are everywhere.

Bouchard or Miettinen If you sign a UFA center, one of them has to go. Most likely moved with Harding.

#6 & #7 Dmen
Stoner and Noreau. Cheap and both deserve long looks. Stoner #6 if healthy.

4th line and press-box
Don't bring up the guys who should be getting seasoning in the AHL. That means Gillies, Cuma, Scandella, Sheppard (chance waivers), Almond, Prosser and even Wellman should be STAYING in the AHL for most the year. Wellman would be the call-up if we get a top-6 fill-in.

Instead, bring up the guys who are cheap and need a solid look before they are shipped out. Kassian to replace Boogaard. Give Kalus a spot. He's made a lot of progress last year, and could be a really good 4th line in the league. I'd also take a look as the tons of cheap UFA of guys who just want to stay in the league. You could easily fill-up the last few spots with .5m guys if you had to.

PLAYER BONUS CAP HIT
FORWARDS
* Plekanec — $5,000,000
Martin Havlat — $5,000,000
Pierre-Marc Bouchard — $4,080,000
* Jokinen — $3,500,000
Mikko Koivu — $3,250,000
* Guillaume Latendresse — $2,500,000
Andrew Brunette — $2,333,333
Chuck Kobasew — $2,333,333
Cal Clutterbuck — $1,400,000
Kyle Brodziak — $1,150,000
* Petr Kalus — $821,000
* Robbie Earl — $550,000
* Matt Kassian — $500,000
* Andrew Ebbett — $487,000
DEFENSEMEN
Marek Zidlicky — $4,000,000
Brent Burns — $3,550,000
Nick Schultz — $3,500,000
Cam Barker — $3,083,333
Greg Zanon — $1,933,333
Maxim Noreau — $575,000
Clayton Stoner — $550,000
GOALTENDERS
Niklas Backstrom — $6,000,000
* Anton Khudobin — $586,000
BUYOUTS
Mark Parrish — $927,778

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER SIZE 23
SALARY CAP $58,800,000
PAYROLL $57,610,111
BONUSES $0
CAP SPACE $1,189,889

Lats-Plekanec-Havlat
Bruno-Koivu-Kobasew
Clutterbuck-Jokinen-Bouchard (or Miettinen)
Kassian-Brodziak-Kalus
Earl, Ebbett (or whoever)

Barker-Burns
Zannon-Zidlicky
Schultz-Stoner
Noreau

Backstrom
Khudobin (or cheap back-up)

That would be a competitive line-up. Good balanced offense. Great D. Lots of grit. Not high-end talent, but lots of depth. Whether or not you think that's a Cup team, it is definitely a playoff team. You have even more cap space if you dump Bouchard and keep Miettinen.


Last edited by nickschultzfan: 06-01-2010 at 05:17 PM.
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06-01-2010, 04:58 PM
  #50
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Also, by keeping Gillies, Sheppard, Wellman, and Almond in the AHL, you can maybe get them to get some chemistry, because they will have to replace Bruno, Kobasew, and Jokinen when those guy's contract's expire.

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