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Old
06-01-2010, 05:19 PM
  #51
nickschultzfan
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Or just say screw it an offer Kovalchuk 7.5m. Probably won't beat out teams like LA, but maybe.

Bruno-Koivu-Kobasew
Kovalchuk-Bouchard-Clutterbuck
Lats-Brodizak-Havlat
Kassian - X - Kalus

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06-01-2010, 05:34 PM
  #52
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I agree with the reasoning to give some of the guys like Kassian, Kalus a shot. Plug 'em in on the 4th line, why not? I'm not going to advocate signing Plekanec for $5M unless we are somehow able to move out some more money. I see him getting more than $5M somewhere though. I'd love to see us trade away Schultz. I think Bouchard may be back for next year, but I haven't heard much about him. If he has to go back onto LTIR, then we have his cap space to work with too which would be HUGE. Although, we can't possibly know that.

I see us looking for bargain priced players in FA though, and a back-up goalie if the need arises from Harding being traded away. I think I'd rather have a veteran backup playing behind Backs than Khudobin. He probably needs some more seasoning in the AHL. With the Khudobin/Hackett combo in Houston, that spells out good for the goaltending future. Hopefully Hackett gets the majority of the starts down there.

It will be an interesting offseason, I actually could see us picking up on Jokinen on the cheap though assuming that he would want to come here. I think we'll try to make a couple of trades, but whether anything gets done or not, we'll have to wait and see.

I think the biggest trade that will happen this season is probably a trade-down which I hope doesn't happen, but I have a feeling that it will.

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06-01-2010, 05:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Harding - Must be moved, even if it's 50 cents on the dollar. You can't pay a back-up 1.1 million when your starter makes 6m. Get a cheap-back. They are everywhere.
Why do people suggest trading away assets for nothing?

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06-01-2010, 06:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by mnwildgophers View Post
I agree with the reasoning to give some of the guys like Kassian, Kalus a shot. Plug 'em in on the 4th line, why not?
What has either player done to deserve that shot? Kalus has shown nothing worthy of a new contract, let alone a shot with an NHL team. As for Kassian, he's really only been in the AHL for 2 years, why not let him develop another year down there?

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06-01-2010, 07:20 PM
  #55
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What has either player done to deserve that shot? Kalus has shown nothing worthy of a new contract, let alone a shot with an NHL team. As for Kassian, he's really only been in the AHL for 2 years, why not let him develop another year down there?
Kalus had an okay year last year scoring 12 goals, so what help does it do to have him on the AHL team? I don't know I say give him some duties up here on the 4th line and let him bang some bodies.

Does anyone think Kassian will actually need time to develop? He already has plenty of penalty minutes, and it's not like we're going to be relying on him to score.

I guess we'll just wait and see what happens. I'd like to see some of the young guys up here though, although I'd like to see Prosser, Palmer, and Wellman playing some time down in Houston. They are a little older than most draft picks, but you never know what can happen if they play some quality minutes down there. It's going to be an interesting year for sure.

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06-01-2010, 08:35 PM
  #56
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Kassian doesn't need to develop in the AHL. He'll be a 4th liner for life, if he does make it in the NHL. But he can bring his other elements to the game.

Kalus has NHL speed and size, can hit, bring some offense, and some energy. He should be given 20 games on the 4th line.

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06-01-2010, 08:42 PM
  #57
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Sorry to break away from the conversation, but I was reading the trade forums and I saw a Lupul for Schultz trade suggested.

What do you think of that? We add about $0.7M of salary, but he could be able to pop the puck in the net more effectively than Miettinen.

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06-01-2010, 09:14 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by mnwildgophers View Post
Sorry to break away from the conversation, but I was reading the trade forums and I saw a Lupul for Schultz trade suggested.

What do you think of that? We add about $0.7M of salary, but he could be able to pop the puck in the net more effectively than Miettinen.
If people are angry with Schultz's contract, they will be even more angry once they see Lupul play with his contract. He's insanely streaky for being paid over 4m a year.

Just wait. Schultz and Stoner will be a great shutdown pair. And if Barker sucks, Schultz and Burns have always played great together.


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06-01-2010, 09:43 PM
  #59
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I say do it. I mean it's not like Nick Schultz has any fans, plus that means we have a golden opportunity to trade for Chris Pronger after he wants out of Philly.

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06-02-2010, 10:03 AM
  #60
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Kassian can't produce in the AHL and can't fight as well as Boogaard, he's not needed.
Kalus has shown very little in the AHL and would be more of a liability than an asset.

I'd rather have Gillies up here than either of those guys...at least he's got a future in the NHL, even if it's a role player.

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06-02-2010, 10:58 AM
  #61
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Kassian can't produce in the AHL and can't fight as well as Boogaard, he's not needed.
Kalus has shown very little in the AHL and would be more of a liability than an asset.

I'd rather have Gillies up here than either of those guys...at least he's got a future in the NHL, even if it's a role player.
I say you still tender Kalus a contract, and keep him in the AHL if he's a liability. Kassian, well, he can come up if they really feel they need it. Or, they can find one in the FA market I'm sure?

I think we give Gillies another year in the AHL and let him develop his game again, which reminds me, who's going to coach the Aeros? Maybe something better will happen with a new coach?

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06-02-2010, 12:13 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by mnwildgophers View Post
I say you still tender Kalus a contract, and keep him in the AHL if he's a liability. Kassian, well, he can come up if they really feel they need it. Or, they can find one in the FA market I'm sure?

I think we give Gillies another year in the AHL and let him develop his game again, which reminds me, who's going to coach the Aeros? Maybe something better will happen with a new coach?
Hopefully Wes Walz

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06-02-2010, 12:18 PM
  #63
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Can we please not repeat the mistakes of the past, and put Gillies, Sheppard, Wellman, Cuma, Scandella, and the rest in the AHL, where they belong?

One of the most dramatic problems with the Wild in the past is inability to develop top-end prospects. Drafting aside, the two largest causes of this is (1) rushing high-end talent into the NHL, forcing them into non-traditional roles [1st forwards being grinders, sitting in the pressbox, no PP time, very little ice time, etc.] and (2) having a poor developmental farm team [offensive wasteland that is Houston].

Aside from Gaborik, the Wild have rushed nearly everybody into the NHL. And we have paid dearly for it. Bouchard will never be an NHL goal scorer. Sheppard is a bust. Gillies will now be a 3rd liner, tops. Burns' career has been up and down.

Future Top-6 talent should not be playing in Bottom-6 positions and future top-4 Dmen should be playing 20+ minutes a night. It's that simple.

It doesn't matter if Gillies is a tiny bit better than Kalus. Gillies can, and should, still develop in the AHL. In other words, if you keep Kalus in Houston and Gillies on the Wild, you are actually valuing Kalus MORE than Gillies, because you are preventing Gillies from developing his offensive game. If you don't think Kalus is going to amount to anything, then he should be playing the meaningless grinder minutes on the Wild, in a sense, taking one for the team.

That might be a backward way of thinking, but it is true. We need to start thinking of 2 tracks of development (1) Talent (top-6 forwards and top-4 D) and non-talent (bottom-6 grinders and 5-7 Dmen). If you have spots open on the bottom lines, you bring up non-talent players [Kalus, Kassian, etc.]. You only bring up talent players if you have an opening in the top lines, not just openings on the roster.

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06-02-2010, 12:20 PM
  #64
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Hopefully Wes Walz
Well one has to institute that quitting mentality the team has on the players early.

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06-02-2010, 12:42 PM
  #65
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Is there still time to send down Nick Schultz to develop?

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06-02-2010, 12:53 PM
  #66
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Haha. All I am saying is that we should follow the model that the more successful player developing teams follow (Detriot, Hawks, Washington, etc.)

The goal is to allow high-end players another season two more seasons Junior and a few seasons in the AHL before they are brought up into the NHL. And then they are only brought up when there is a open spot in the top-6.

Think of the improvement Sheppard and Gillies could have gone through if they were allowed to stay in Junior and the go straight to Houston.

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06-02-2010, 01:00 PM
  #67
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Haha. All I am saying is that we should follow the model that the more successful player developing teams follow (Detriot, Hawks, Washington, etc.)

The goal is to allow high-end players another season two more seasons Junior and a few seasons in the AHL before they are brought up into the NHL. And then they are only brought up when there is a open spot in the top-6.

Think of the improvement Sheppard and Gillies could have gone through if they were allowed to stay in Junior and the go straight to Houston.
Well, Gillies we still have a chance on as I think he will probably be in Houston again next year.

With our first round selection this year, I have a feeling that he will stay wherever he played this year (my guess is a junior players), I think he will most likely play another year or two there, and then go to the AHL to play top minutes and get lots of playing time. This, we need to do.

Would most of us try to trade whatever picks we have for talent to try to make the playoffs? Or, do most of us think that we need to just stay the course and draft and develop well?

If we do the latter, the Wild stand lose many fans as making the playoffs is big, and we need to make the playoffs at some point. I know that high picks are a consolation prize, but at what point do you have to say enough is enough and try to win with some trades and FA pickups?

FA isn't going to solve this team's woes since you usually have to overpay, but I'm in the camp that we should make a trade if it makes sense at the draft, and if it doesn't then just take the players you want in the draft, and try to make a couple of bargain-priced signings in FA's, and see what HCTR can do during the season. He has to adapt to the team that he has, and I know he wants an up-tempo puck-possession game, (doesn't every team want this?) but don't we at some point have to win. We don't want to be like the Timberwolves...

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06-02-2010, 02:17 PM
  #68
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Gillies is a role player, a defensive specialist. There's nothing for him to develop down in Houston. He'll be lucky if he sniffs 15 goals in the NHL. He can already skate like the wind and has a big body, he'll be fine.

I'd take a journeyman NHL'er over Kalus and Kassian, there's plenty of guys who'll work for league min who can do a better job than they can.

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06-02-2010, 03:19 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by mnwildgophers View Post
Kalus had an okay year last year scoring 12 goals, so what help does it do to have him on the AHL team? I don't know I say give him some duties up here on the 4th line and let him bang some bodies.

Does anyone think Kassian will actually need time to develop? He already has plenty of penalty minutes, and it's not like we're going to be relying on him to score.
Kalus had a better year as a 19 year old rookie in the AHL than he had last year at 22. His time is up, just like Voloshenko's was up when he left. Petr Kalus is a bust, plain and simple.

Kassian can actually take a regular shift in the AHL, which for another year might not be a bad thing. Theres better fighters who will cost the same as him, so if its a goon we want, he's not the answer. If its a tough guy who can take a regular shift we want, he should have another year in Houston.

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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Kassian doesn't need to develop in the AHL. He'll be a 4th liner for life, if he does make it in the NHL. But he can bring his other elements to the game.

Kalus has NHL speed and size, can hit, bring some offense, and some energy. He should be given 20 games on the 4th line.
No, he shouldn't. There is no excuse for his complete lack of production for 3 seasons, between 2 different leagues. The fact that he's left for both the KHL and to be cut from his national team shows no loyalty to this organization either. Let him go back to Europe where he belongs.

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Sorry to break away from the conversation, but I was reading the trade forums and I saw a Lupul for Schultz trade suggested.

What do you think of that? We add about $0.7M of salary, but he could be able to pop the puck in the net more effectively than Miettinen.
I'd gladly swap Schultz for Lupul. Lupul is worth more than Schultz contract wise and fills a need while Schultz doesn't fill a need with our team.

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Gillies is a role player, a defensive specialist. There's nothing for him to develop down in Houston. He'll be lucky if he sniffs 15 goals in the NHL. He can already skate like the wind and has a big body, he'll be fine.

I'd take a journeyman NHL'er over Kalus and Kassian, there's plenty of guys who'll work for league min who can do a better job than they can.
There is actually something for Gillies to gain(or regain) in Houston, and that's confidence. He should have never been in the NHL at 19 and the season he had clearly rattled him. I'm not so sure 1 year is enough in Houston.

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06-02-2010, 10:17 PM
  #70
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Kalus had an okay year last year scoring 12 goals, so what help does it do to have him on the AHL team? I don't know I say give him some duties up here on the 4th line and let him bang some bodies.
What good did it do to have Matt Foy on the NHL roster a couple years back?

If the guy EARNS a spot in camp... sure, give him a shot. If he shows he doesn't belong, it does the team no good to keep him around.

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06-02-2010, 11:21 PM
  #71
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What good did it do to have Matt Foy on the NHL roster a couple years back?

If the guy EARNS a spot in camp... sure, give him a shot. If he shows he doesn't belong, it does the team no good to keep him around.
Okay, I agree with you. He needs to earn it as he hasn't shown much to earn it yet, but I can't really say how he was besides looking at his stat line, obviously no one thought he was tearing it as we would have heard about it more, but we don't really know how he played or what he looked like (unless someone watched him the AHL?)

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06-03-2010, 12:32 AM
  #72
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I didn't get to see any of the Aeros games, so all I have to go by is a stat-line. We all know how useless an AHL stat-line can be when talking about who deserves a shot in the NHL.

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06-03-2010, 11:08 AM
  #73
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Good to see you on these boards Talon!

I just haven't read any good scouting reports on Kalus the last couple years. The first year he was running around like crazy, the second he bailed and went overseas, and this year he didn't do much impressive.

Gillies has been one of the best defensive players in Houston. Outside of his last junior year, he's never scored more than 13 goals. I don't see him flourishing offensively. But he's a checker.

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06-03-2010, 02:01 PM
  #74
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Gillies would not make the team better if he makes the team. He wouldn't be an improvement over a stop gap player (i.e. Earl, Kalus, etc.).

Also, Gillies will not benefit from playing 4th minutes. Yet, he will benefit getting PP and big minutes down in Houston.

So, if Gillies (a) won't make the Wild better, and (b) won't benefit from being on the Wild, why should Gillies be on the team? What's the point?

The answer is that there isn't a reason why Gillies should be on the Wild next season. The only reason people think he should be on the team is because they like him, and don't like Kalus. It's a purely emotion decision.

There is a reason 4th liners don't stay in the league long. It's because the 4th line is the location of guys who should have NHL look, but most likely will be tossed in short time, only to open a spot for another NHL long-shot.

Kalus making the team means nothing. It's not a stamp of approval by any means. All it means is that the Wild want to get a final look at their investment prior to letting it go. Just like Earl, Foy, and Ebbett.

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06-03-2010, 02:06 PM
  #75
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People need to stop looking at players like people, and instead look at them as resources that should be maximized.

Who cares if people "like" Gillies and Almond but "hate" Sheppard and Kalus? It seriously doesn't matter. At all.

It doesn't matter if you think Sheppard is a loser and needs to get shipped for a bag of pucks. You don't waste an asset, without reason, just because the asset looks like it's not what you once thought it was.

So Kalus and Sheppard aren't top-6 forwards like we all thought (and hoped) they'd be. Big deal. That doesn't mean that they still can't help the Wild in some fashion.

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