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Rangers sign Zuccarello Aasen

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Old
05-28-2010, 11:49 AM
  #251
offdacrossbar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
What does that mean really?

Like so is Niklas Bäckström and so was Wayne Gretzky too, if thats the definition used.

The game of hockey is about getting involved. Skate up and sit in the lap of a D and you won't get the puck much. On the other hand, put 5 guys on the ice who all will skate out in the corners and seek open ice -- and you won't create much either.

I think a very legit argument is that a player like MZA needs to be put in a good enviroment; he needs to be given a fair share of the action on the ice, and he also needs players to open up ice for him.

In my world players like Peter Mueller are peripheral players. Schremp. Filatov. Jamie Lundmark. Steve Bernier. And the likes. Guys who -- if put in a certain situation -- can do great things on the ice. But if they don't happend to end up with the puck on their stick at a certain position on the ice -- they can skate 10 straight games without accomplish squat.

MZA aint like that. MZA is a lot more like say a young Marc Savard. Like put him up against a ultra dreamteam defense and he would be tossed around and dismantled shift after shift; but he would still, like once per period, create something. He would find a way.

I would say that he is the complete and utter opposite to most players I would call "peripheral". Is he still a midge? Yes. Is he ultra good in some sense? Nope. He aint a playmaker like Bäckström nor a sniper like AO. He don't have Pavel Bure's wheels and he can probably not even dangle like Zherdev (at the same time I am not sure if anyone ever have been able to dangle like Zherdev, but I guess that says more about Zs abilitys in other areas of his game...). He is a very good player who is really short.

Expectations?

Give him a rookie year, most kids needs that. Z and Dats, Thornton and Lecavalier. Give him a good environment. And I am sure the kid will score 75+ pts one day.
my point simply is this

to expect alot from him his first year is foolish.

he clearly has talent and skill but does that translate into an impact player ?

on detroit or pitts perhaps, but on the nyr, hell need to plahy top 6 and im not sure we have the talent to help him succeed right off the bat.

again, 30-35 points, something like 12/20 would seem reasonable depending on his pp time.

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05-28-2010, 02:08 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
my point simply is this

to expect alot from him his first year is foolish.

he clearly has talent and skill but does that translate into an impact player ?

on detroit or pitts perhaps, but on the nyr, hell need to plahy top 6 and im not sure we have the talent to help him succeed right off the bat.

again, 30-35 points, something like 12/20 would seem reasonable depending on his pp time.
I understand your concern and can't blame anyone for being a tad worried.

My point is just that my take on MZA is that if he is not successful it will be because of two things, a mix of 1. his lack of size and 2. him not being quite elite in any department.

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05-28-2010, 03:14 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Either way, I'm excited about the player.

He looks like an exciting player to watch.

He HAS to be used in a scoring role in the top 6 and getting regular power play time.

I can't because I'm typing on my cellphone, but what would the cap situation look like on capgeek if:

Zherdev: 3.5 mil
Frolov: 4.5 mil

1:Zherdev - Dubinsky - Gaborik
2:Frolov - Anisimov - Zuccarello
3:Avery - Drury - Callahan
4:Byers - Christensen - Weise
ex:Boyle, Prust, Shelley

1:Staal - Sanguinetti
2el Zotto - Rozsival
3:McDonagh - Girardi
ex:Eriksson

1:Lundqvist
bu:X

Redden, Voros, Brashear contracts gone.
If we give Frolov 4.5 mil per...ugh

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Old
05-28-2010, 03:20 PM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
i think you are correct...and it 100% goes against everything sather in sather's history but i think that will be our starting lineup next fall, and i would be okay with it

if that is in fact the case, we'd be counting on at least 5 things:
- MZA to make the transition and be effective
- AA to take a step forward
- Christensen to be servicable as gaborik's center
- Dubinsky developing some consistancy
- Prospal not dropping off too much

i highly doubt all those things happen but i can see 2 or 3 out of those 5 happening....i'd say AA and Prospal being the more likely of the bunch

theres also the shot that 0 out of 5 happen and we're in for an ugly, UGLY season

but unfortunately, we've reached the point as rangers fans where we can consider an offseason that doesn't financially f---k us for the next 5 years to be a success
I think the roster we finished with was a lot stronger than what we had most of the season, because while it may not be the strongest, it at least meshed well. We're facing a lot of what if's in the two scenarios I showed, but there are a lot of what if's if we go the other direction too...

What if Plekanec/Marleau don't mesh with Gaborik? What if their play drops off like Drury's? etc. lol

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05-28-2010, 03:21 PM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Versteeg can be a consistent 25/30 guy imo, capable of contributing everywhere on the ice. He's not someone like Zherdev who will put up points, but ignore the finer details in the game, or Lisin who shows some offensive flash but is as dumb as a doorknob.
I mean, Cally's pretty much a 20/20 guy now, it's not a stretch to say Cally's ceiling isn't 25/30. I just think you get more offense from the other Hawk options, and Bolland being a natural center is my favorite option other than Byfulien.

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05-28-2010, 03:25 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I disagree. He rarely plays with Hossa, Sharp, Kane or Toews. He was playing with Madden most of the season as Bolland was out of the line-up and Madden's offense was close to non-existent. He would also get more minutes in NY than he would in Chicago.
He was the one to step into the top 6 for most of the first half of the season in Bolland and Hossa's place.

And my point was Versteeg's numbers were going to almost always be in the same ballpark as Callahan's. I don't care that Versteeg scored about 8 more points than Cally last season or 13 more the season before. I just don't understand the hype around him, he's going to get paid more than he deserves a lot sooner than Callahan does for the same type of production.

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05-28-2010, 03:44 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
I'm not sure if your talking about bonuses in his contract, but it has been confirmed that it is a two year, two way deal with a cap hit of 900k per year. I posted it on the main board, but didn't bother to post it here because I assumed everybody already knew that.

Just in case:



http://www.rangerstribune.com/2010/0...blueshirt.html
he's capable of being sent down to the minors without going through waivers regardless of whether it's a 2 way or 1 way (see Matt Gilroy), the fact it's a 2 way deal mean's he'll make less if he's in the minors.

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05-28-2010, 04:01 PM
  #258
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I think its a given how we should build our team next season. There is really only one option that makes sense. Or scratch that. Try to lure Ilya Kovalchuk cheap to NY, if you fail that, there is only one option left.

For the love of god, you do not commit.

We are building a team next season too. We won't compete. In order to build a team you need to be able to play at a certain level, it will do us no good to spend most of the time chasing the puck in our own end. That won't develop the younger players we have, which is extremely important, and it won't give this team a identity.

So we need offensive help.

What players are there out there who can help us offensively without us commiting to them long term? 1 year deals. Maybe 2 years.

Id look at Afinegenov 1 year 3.5m and Gonchar 1 year and 7m. One D and one forward. With MZA and Afi, wed add a offensive punch to each of our 2nd and 3rd line. Speed and skill. That would help. Gonchar is great with the puck and would help our team game and offensive game. Maybe we could get someone like that through trade. And yeah, resign Prospal. Dump Redden.

Prospal-Christensen-Gabby
Avery-Dubinsky-MZA
Afinegenov-Drury-Callahan
Prust-Anisimov-Shelley
Staal-Gonchar
MDZ-Rozi
McD-Girardi

Compared to last years team, we would improve our PP with Gonchar, we would add speed and skill to our 2nd and 3rd line.

Something like that. Next summer, wed free up 10m. If someone would become available -- someone who really could help to put us over the top -- we would have kids in NY who did well and had a lot of value and wed have capspace to make something happend.

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05-28-2010, 04:08 PM
  #259
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why would u give gonchar 7m?!?

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05-28-2010, 04:17 PM
  #260
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Gonchar is going to be a UFA? I didn't know that

He's too old for a 7 million dollar contract. I would try to sign him for like 2 years though at what he's currently making if that's an option. The guy puts up more points than most forwards and is one of the reasons Pittsburgh has been so good recently

He could also be a mentor to someone like Del Zotto who can learn quite a few things from him.

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05-28-2010, 04:49 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
why would u give gonchar 7m?!?
I wouldn't even give him 4M.

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05-29-2010, 01:40 AM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
why would u give gonchar 7m?!?
To get him to only sign a 1 y deal.

Look at our chances next season -- we won't accomplish squat. We can give that 7m next year to Marleau, but we would be forced to add on 6 years and 7m per to get him to sign here. And we still wouldn't accomplish anything.

So, get a couple of guys who can help us short term next year, and don't commit.

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05-29-2010, 03:17 AM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
To get him to only sign a 1 y deal.

Look at our chances next season -- we won't accomplish squat. We can give that 7m next year to Marleau, but we would be forced to add on 6 years and 7m per to get him to sign here. And we still wouldn't accomplish anything.

So, get a couple of guys who can help us short term next year, and don't commit.
so why sign someone to a one year deal if we can fill the spot with someone with a future with the team.

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05-29-2010, 05:41 AM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I understand your concern and can't blame anyone for being a tad worried.

My point is just that my take on MZA is that if he is not successful it will be because of two things, a mix of 1. his lack of size and 2. him not being quite elite in any department.
dont for forget the 3rd thing. torts

he may be fine on your 2 concerns and yet, still not be successful

because of coach clown.

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05-29-2010, 06:16 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
so why sign someone to a one year deal if we can fill the spot with someone with a future with the team.
Thats probably the worst possible thing we could do. That would be a tremendous disaster.

In order for a kid to develop in the game in hockey, or the best way at least to develop a hockey player, is to put him in the best possible environment. Like in order to learn how to play offense in the NHL you need to practise at playing offense in the NHL.

We don't have the framework to put in a kid and develop his offensive game right now. Unless we get a absolute top notch offensive prospect they will all busts. Anisimov will never develop a offensive game playing on a team that can't get out of its own end...

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05-29-2010, 08:20 AM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
dont for forget the 3rd thing. torts

he may be fine on your 2 concerns and yet, still not be successful

because of coach clown.
Actually sounds like Tortorella has been good with the young players.

Sorry Lisin didn't work out, dude, but from all accounts they tried hard to work with him and get him to understand what was expected of him

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05-29-2010, 08:21 AM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Thats probably the worst possible thing we could do. That would be a tremendous disaster.

In order for a kid to develop in the game in hockey, or the best way at least to develop a hockey player, is to put him in the best possible environment. Like in order to learn how to play offense in the NHL you need to practise at playing offense in the NHL.

We don't have the framework to put in a kid and develop his offensive game right now. Unless we get a absolute top notch offensive prospect they will all busts. Anisimov will never develop a offensive game playing on a team that can't get out of its own end...
This is why you try to get rid of bad habits, and that includes losing and tanking.

I agree with this post. Look at the Detroit's and New Jersey's. The winning foundation/culture in place makes the transition for younger players much easier.

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Old
05-29-2010, 09:50 AM
  #268
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Zherdev

Why is everyone still putting Zherdev in the line up? I thought it was confirmed that it was just some dumb writer making crap up to get attention... give up on the Zherdev dream kids

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05-29-2010, 10:21 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I wouldn't even give him 4M.
You won't sign a guy that had 50 points in like 60 games last season for 4 million?

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05-29-2010, 11:36 AM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Actually sounds like Tortorella has been good with the young players.

Sorry Lisin didn't work out, dude, but from all accounts they tried hard to work with him and get him to understand what was expected of him
It's not Torts' fault that Lisin had the mental acumen of a corpse.

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05-29-2010, 11:43 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
You won't sign a guy that had 50 points in like 60 games last season for 4 million?
Gonchar is a player that a team who has a legit chance at the cup would bid on. He could be that piece that could put that team over.

For the Rangers, it would really be a waste of a signing.

Rather get a younger player still in his 20's and with a few more years in his prime.

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05-29-2010, 11:44 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
You won't sign a guy that had 50 points in like 60 games last season for 4 million?
You see the way he played in the playoffs?

DO NOT WANT.

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05-29-2010, 11:49 AM
  #273
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Im not sure if you guys will be able to watch the video due to location restrictions or if it has already been posted. But here is a link to an article and a video of Mats signing the contract.

http://translate.google.com/translat...58&sl=no&tl=en

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05-29-2010, 11:54 AM
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
Gonchar is a player that a team who has a legit chance at the cup would bid on. He could be that piece that could put that team over.

For the Rangers, it would really be a waste of a signing.

Rather get a younger player still in his 20's and with a few more years in his prime.
Those players usually require longer contracts though. Volchenkov and Martin will probably want no less than a 4 year contract

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05-29-2010, 12:35 PM
  #275
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Having MZA on your team will bring you 3 years of joy for starters.
He is a quality stickhandler, smooth passer around the crease, creates lots of chances for his linemates and he is a constant threat against any defender.

His size isnt that much of a negative issue, he tends to slip away from hits because of great skating. Great worker, would love to have him play for the Caps. Congratulations.

I have no doubt in my mind he is going to be a top six player before christmas.

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