At the road trip last year in Raleigh, it was a pretty quick meet-and-greet - I think they were there 45 minutes or so. There was a long line to get your picture taken with Ruff, Harry, and RJ, and Darcy was kind of off in the corner at the end of the bar with some of the assistant coaches most of the time. He was actually behind the bar for the last 15 minutes or so.
It was loud, very cramped, and not at all conducive to any kind of legit Q&A. I'm sure someone could get up to him and give him some ****, but really - what's the point? He has to know some folks aren't happy with the way he runs the team. Does he care? I very highly doubt it.
He does what Quinn tells him to, and Quinn doesn't care what I think, at least not until it shows up on the balance sheet. So, he's not getting another penny from me. That's my version of "grilling".
At the road trip last year in Raleigh, it was a pretty quick meet-and-greet - I think they were there 45 minutes or so. There was a long line to get your picture taken with Ruff, Harry, and RJ, and Darcy was kind of off in the corner at the end of the bar with some of the assistant coaches most of the time. He was actually behind the bar for the last 15 minutes or so.
It was loud, very cramped, and not at all conducive to any kind of legit Q&A. I'm sure someone could get up to him and give him some ****, but really - what's the point? He has to know some folks aren't happy with the way he runs the team. Does he care? I very highly doubt it.
He does what Quinn tells him to, and Quinn doesn't care what I think, at least not until it shows up on the balance sheet. So, he's not getting another penny from me. That's my version of "grilling".
Don't they mingle with folks during their "road trip" stuff? I mean, certainly someone could have grilled them at one of those things (coughcoughjamecoughcoughjlrcoughcough)...
I've never attended one but from the coverage I've seen MSG give some of the past ones, it seems like Regier, Ruff and the television crew are the only guests; Quinn probably doesn't attend such and he's the one in serious need of grilling.
At least I know BTG has been in the state of New York the last few weeks. Things at my (and his former/current) employer have been....hectic, so he's actually been around to take care of things.
I actually saw him the other day. He was behind me in the line to get something to drink and really wanted some iced tea (at 8:30am). Didn't seem too happy either
And no, I wasn't going to risk my job to ask him something.
He does what Quinn tells him to, and Quinn doesn't care what I think, at least not until it shows up on the balance sheet. So, he's not getting another penny from me. That's my version of "grilling".
That would send the loudest message - unfortunately, based on the 98% season ticket renewals the Sabres had, obviously not enough people want to take such a strong stance. All that does is tell Golisano, Quinn and DiPofi that their methods of operation, selected hockey management team and the resulting product on the ice each year is perfectly acceptable to the public. Prior to the lockout, I recall that season tickets were really suffering and fan apathy in general was pretty high after 3 years of missing the playoffs and trades of popular players but those surprise seasons of 2005-06 & 2006-07 created such an overwhelming euphoria in the city and across the NHL over the team.
Three years later, it has yet to wear off - and it would seem that the Sabres are perfectly content to milk the fan support gained from that period as long as they can.
I've never attended one but from the coverage I've seen MSG give some of the past ones, it seems like Regier, Ruff and the television crew are the only guests; Quinn probably doesn't attend such and he's the one in serious need of grilling.
Quinn hangs out at the draft parties and the other public events they have over the summer.
That would send the loudest message - unfortunately, based on the 98% season ticket renewals the Sabres had, obviously not enough people want to take such a strong stance. All that does is tell Golisano, Quinn and DiPofi that their methods of operation, selected hockey management team and the resulting product on the ice each year is perfectly acceptable to the public. Prior to the lockout, I recall that season tickets were really suffering and fan apathy in general was pretty high after 3 years of missing the playoffs and trades of popular players but those surprise seasons of 2005-06 & 2006-07 created such an overwhelming euphoria in the city and across the NHL over the team.
Three years later, it has yet to wear off - and it would seem that the Sabres are perfectly content to milk the fan support gained from that period as long as they can.
Prior to the lockout fans stopped buying tickets because the owner was a criminal. And that's really the only period in their history the Sabres have had bad attendance.
The Sabres went 25-10-6 and 2-1 in the playoffs at home last year. I'd argue the ticket buying public got their money's worth.
That would send the loudest message - unfortunately, based on the 98% season ticket renewals the Sabres had, obviously not enough people want to take such a strong stance. All that does is tell Golisano, Quinn and DiPofi that their methods of operation, selected hockey management team and the resulting product on the ice each year is perfectly acceptable to the public.
It's either that or that people like me love the Sabres, love going out to a game on a Friday night supporting my favorite team. Also have a couple beers and get entertained by a team that was great at home last year and won the division having the best goalie and rookie in the league.
Rather then some childish protest of not going to games. Its sounds more cheap then a good solution to them not winning a cup.I say if you can afford it why not. Ive been waiting since i was younger to have my own season tickets. Now that Ive gotten them for the past 5 yrs I would not drop them because they have not won a cup.
No season tickets = even less money to spend on the roster.
If you actually think Quinn sits there thinking " its a good thing we have all these season ticket holders, if we didnt maybe we would have to try to win the cup" ??? They try every year. It might not be the decisions you would make. But I'm pretty damn sure Darcy makes moves he thinks will help the team. Not just to making moves for the sake of making moves
It's a bit alarming to me when I read these "they're not getting a red cent from me" posts. I live in Baltimore. When I hear co-workers and friends saying that Peter Angelos and the Orioles aren't getting a cent from them, I can understand and sympathize with that feeling. They haven't had a winning season since 1997. In many of those seasons, including this one, they don't even sniff .500, let alone the playoffs. They don't sign top-tier free agents and they haven't developed talent. I wouldn't put money into that product, either.
Contrast that with the Sabres. They've made the playoffs three of the last five years; they've won the division two of the last five years, more than any of their division rivals; they've been a #4, #3 and a #1 seed in those three years; the two years they missed the playoffs, they were still a very competitive team. While they don't make the splashy free agent signings that many of our resident fantasy GM's would like, they do very well to develop their own talent.
There are some aspects of the organization that I don't like, too. It's not all rainbows and butterflies. But to say you're not going to support the team at all. Why? Unless you truly believe they're actively trying not to win a Cup, I don't understand that. They're certainly not the bumbling idiots that many would like to believe they are. Maybe someone can explain this to me.
It's a bit alarming to me when I read these "they're not getting a red cent from me" posts. I live in Baltimore. When I hear co-workers and friends saying that Peter Angelos and the Orioles aren't getting a cent from them, I can understand and sympathize with that feeling. They haven't had a winning season since 1997. In many of those seasons, including this one, they don't even sniff .500, let alone the playoffs. They don't sign top-tier free agents and they haven't developed talent. I wouldn't put money into that product, either.
Contrast that with the Sabres. They've made the playoffs three of the last five years; they've won the division two of the last five years, more than any of their division rivals; they've been a #4, #3 and a #1 seed in those three years; the two years they missed the playoffs, they were still a very competitive team. While they don't make the splashy free agent signings that many of our resident fantasy GM's would like, they do very well to develop their own talent.
There are some aspects of the organization that I don't like, too. It's not all rainbows and butterflies. But to say you're not going to support the team at all. Why? Unless you truly believe they're actively trying not to win a Cup, I don't understand that. They're certainly not the bumbling idiots that many would like to believe they are. Maybe someone can explain this to me.
It appears I will be buying part of the cheapest mini-pack possible this year after a few years away. Granted, that's less about the team and more about not having any medical bills for the first time in three years...
It's far less boring in person.
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Rather then some childish protest of not going to games. Its sounds more cheap then a good solution to them not winning a cup.
I don't think it's "childish", and it's really not even a protest. It's that I'm not going to spend my money supporting an organization that isn't doing everything they can to win a championship. You can disagree with my assessment of their motives, and you can disagree with how I choose to spend my entertainment dollars. That's fine. At the end of the day - I'm 600 miles from Buffalo, and they certainly won't miss a few hundred dollars a year from me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15
There are some aspects of the organization that I don't like, too. It's not all rainbows and butterflies. But to say you're not going to support the team at all. Why? Unless you truly believe they're actively trying not to win a Cup, I don't understand that. They're certainly not the bumbling idiots that many would like to believe they are. Maybe someone can explain this to me.
The bolded is close, but I'd slightly reword it. I believe that they are not actively trying to win the Cup. That it's not priority number one. Sure, everyone in the organization would love to win it all - but they're not willing to take the risks necessary to give themselves a real shot. Not getting help at the deadline last year and sitting on all that banked cap space. Coasting into this season banking on the good will from last year. I just don't believe that an organization committed to winning it all would do so little.
I think the comparisons with MLB don't necessarily hold, since we have a cap and they don't. More than half of the teams in our league also make the playoffs every year, twice as many as baseball, so success is easier to come by.
The Sabres spent close to the cap the last few years, but now that they're back in the playoff mix, it looks like they're cutting payroll. Looking at all the evidence we have available, it just really looks to me like the goal is a playoff berth, and to be in the black every year. I know not everyone feels that way, but it's the decision I come to time and time again, and they haven't done anything recently to change my mind. I don't think that's an acceptable goal for a professional sports team, and I'm not willing to give my financial support, however small it might be, to a team that operates that way.
I'm not under the delusion that this will have any effect on the team whatsoever. It's strictly a personal decision, a market economy operating on a personal scale. I have a limited amount of time and money to spend on entertainment, and other options are just beating out the Sabres at this point. It's also a matter of practicing what I preach, at least to some small extent - I personally think it would be a bit hypocritical for me to sit here *****ing and moaning about how they run the team, while continuing to support them in the only way that really matters - $$$.
That would send the loudest message - unfortunately, based on the 98% season ticket renewals the Sabres had, obviously not enough people want to take such a strong stance. All that does is tell Golisano, Quinn and DiPofi that their methods of operation, selected hockey management team and the resulting product on the ice each year is perfectly acceptable to the public. Prior to the lockout, I recall that season tickets were really suffering and fan apathy in general was pretty high after 3 years of missing the playoffs and trades of popular players but those surprise seasons of 2005-06 & 2006-07 created such an overwhelming euphoria in the city and across the NHL over the team.
Three years later, it has yet to wear off - and it would seem that the Sabres are perfectly content to milk the fan support gained from that period as long as they can.
Or maybe, your perspective on what the team should or should not do is completely out of touch with reality.
It's the curse of the echo chamber and believing something regardless of the data. It's really tiresome to read and worse it destroys constructive discussion of the situation.
Or maybe, your perspective on what the team should or should not do is completely out of touch with reality.
It's the curse of the echo chamber and believing something regardless of the data. It's really tiresome to read and worse it destroys constructive discussion of the situation.
Ta,
So, you've substantially changed your opinion of the roster and what Regier should be doing since we were eliminated? Or do you expect a lot more to be done between now and opening night? Regier has done jack **** to address the flaws this team had last year, especially when it comes to the guys who underperformed in the playoffs. What does that tell us? What should we believe, based on the available data?
If the front office wanted to take the next step, and go from a first round exit to a deep playoff run - what would their behavior look like? Would you start with letting 2 of your top 4 defenseman walk for nothing? Would you make no changes to your top six? Would you fix your flawed group of centers by adding a bargain-basement 3rd/4th liner and penciling him in on the 3rd line? How about team toughness? Does the current roster look significantly tougher than the one that was pushed around and bullied the last few seasons?
I think the data is pretty clearly telling us something. And it isn't exactly shouting "Stanley Cup or Bust" to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joechip
Deep breaths. We knew this team was flawed and possibly over-achieving during the regular season. If this off-season looks like last year's then there should be calls for Regier's head, by his own metrics. He wanted to see what he had, and what he has is wanting. Make it better or do something else. Now, it's put up or shut up time for the front office.
Regier should be aggressive with his picks and players at the draft table. He needs to be.
Ta,
Quote:
Originally Posted by joechip
This series should have provided for Regier all the answers he needed. He wanted to know what he had? What he has isn't good enough. A real centerman is priority #1. We don't have any. We have Miller as a bargaining chip. Go get one and dump either Roy or Connolly, preferably Timmay!
Or maybe, your perspective on what the team should or should not do is completely out of touch with reality.
It's the curse of the echo chamber and believing something regardless of the data. It's really tiresome to read and worse it destroys constructive discussion of the situation.
Ta,
The reality as I understand it is the Sabres ownership situation isn't nearly as stable as their critics believe. Tom Golisano's commitment only goes so far as the break even point. He's not a hockey fan and he's even left the area. Quinn and Regier understand that the team's future in Buffalo is in jeopardy if they start losing money and for that reason they're extremely cautious.
Jlr, do you pay for the NHL Center ice package to watch the team on TV or online? I'm assuming the Sabres get some of that money.
I did this past season, but don't plan on renewing - got a NetFlix subscription instead. And it's not just because of my displeasure with the Sabres. I also got fed up with the blackouts of certain games and having to go online to find a stream anyway. I probably won't be watching as many Sabres games this year, so since I don't really follow any other teams, I figured there were better ways to spend those dollars.
The reality as I understand it is the Sabres ownership situation isn't nearly as stable as their critics believe. Tom Golisano's commitment only goes so far as the break even point. He's not a hockey fan and he's even left the area. Quinn and Regier understand that the team's future in Buffalo is in jeopardy if they start losing money and for that reason they're extremely cautious.
I don't buy this for a second, our franchise is a top one.Any smart owner would buy them and keep them here.
I don't buy this for a second, our franchise is a top one.Any smart owner would buy them and keep them here.
Um no its not. A successful businessman looks for a 10% cap rate on any investment and the Sabres are a far cry from it. Lousy advertising rates, not having a dedicated TV deal, giving concession profits to Jacobs etc don't exactly guarantee long term profitability. They're at near capacity for every game but barely turn a profit without playoff money, and the sad part is that they can't raise ticket prices much or they'll lose attendance. From a fan's perspective, I'd buy the team in a heartbeat; as a rather smart businessman I would laugh my ass off if offered it as it would cost between 100 and 150mil for the purchase so I'd want 10 to 15mil in NET profit yearly.
I don't buy this for a second, our franchise is a top one.Any smart owner would buy them and keep them here.
Since the majority of revenue is gate driven, WNY is not a great market to make money without a surge in employment, particularly high-end employment. Suits and corperate boxes are not here in enough volume to make up for a rabid but budget-limited general fanbase.
Since the majority of revenue is gate driven, WNY is not a great market to make money without a surge in employment, particularly high-end employment. Suits and corperate boxes are not here in enough volume to make up for a rabid but budget-limited general fanbase.
With revenue sharing, I don't see how it affects the Sabres who pinch every penny.
With revenue sharing, I don't see how it affects the Sabres who pinch every penny.
There are established parameters to get into each tier of the revenue sharing. One of those parameters is revenue increase -- this market is at or nearing saturation and they will be hard-pressed to meet that number going forward. It isn't simply based on who is making and who is losing money.
Edit - Buff made the point that to qualify for full revenue sharing, the team has to show revenue growth exceeding the league average. This market can not sustain price hikes to have that happen consistently. There is simply not enough corperate money for boxes and to easily absorb rate hikes like say... if Toronto increases the cost of their private suites and premium seating.
