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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Star players that got washed up before 35

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Old
05-27-2010, 06:40 PM
  #26
jkrx
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Paul Coffey.

Going from being regarded as the next best thing to Bobby Orr in the 80s-early 90s to the trash we saw in later half of 96-retirement.

He started to fall off as early as in his Pens days but pulled himself together for a couple of seasons after being traded to Detroit.

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05-27-2010, 06:52 PM
  #27
Dennis Bonvie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Due to injury:
Bobby Orr
Mike Bossy
Cam Neely
Eric Lindros
Jimmy Carson
Pavel Bure
Jason Allison
Adam Deadmarsh
Add Rick Middleton.

Very underrated player in his prime.

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05-27-2010, 09:57 PM
  #28
The Grouch
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- Stephane Richer
- Kevin Stevens
- Bob Carpenter

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05-27-2010, 10:48 PM
  #29
DaveG
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Originally Posted by Ziostilon View Post
was it Jeff O'Neill or Jason Allison that had a phobia of fear of flying

its sad to see trevor Linden fall off, while Modano is a sure HHOFer.

Geoff Sanderson? maybe.
O'Neill I think.

O'Neill had shoulder problems in 2003-04 then just flat out lost whatever desire he had to play when his brother died. He tried a comeback with the Canes in training camp not too long ago but he just didn't have that same drive he used to. Shame to see a guy who was a damn good player for a few years lose his desire to play for reasons like that. I think he'd still be a 25+ goal guy if not for the shoulder then the untimely death of his brother.

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05-28-2010, 12:46 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Hyperkookeez View Post
Even in his last seasons he was still quite fast. he mysteriously lost more skill than speed.
He lost a lot.

In his first 5 years in the league, Friesen was a top-5 skater in the sport. The plug skating around for Calgary in his last season was nowhere near that level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekcut View Post
The names that jumped out at me.
Geoff Sanderson
Don't know if I agree with this.

He played until he was 36, scored 25 goals at age 34. Probably not many people realize this, but in terms of adjusted points, his best season was 2002-03 with Columbus when he was 31.

Pretty normal career arc, to me, save for the lull from 1997-2000 when he was used as a 3rd-liner in Buffalo and saw no PP time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Paul Coffey.

Going from being regarded as the next best thing to Bobby Orr in the 80s-early 90s to the trash we saw in later half of 96-retirement.

He started to fall off as early as in his Pens days but pulled himself together for a couple of seasons after being traded to Detroit.
Not even close.

Won a Norris at 34. Scored 74 points at 35.

Was still a top-pairing defender for Carolina in 1999-00 at age 38.

Every player, save the odd wonder like Lidstrom, is going to be a shadow of their former selves at age 35-40. So were Gretzky, Kurri, Lowe, Anderson, Messier, and every member of that Oiler team. Coffey actually maintained his elite status longer than most.

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Old
05-28-2010, 01:17 AM
  #31
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Bernie Nicholls - he was never the same player after his monster season (and subsequent trade) with the Kings.

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05-28-2010, 02:20 AM
  #32
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Bernie Nicholls - he was never the same player after his monster season (and subsequent trade) with the Kings.
He was brilliant for Chicago from 1994-1996 but it kind of gets lost because one season was shortened by the lockout and the other he got hurt and missed 23 games.

He finished 11th in league scoring in the lockout year (at age 34) and would have finished well up there again the following year (at 35) if not for his injury.

His 150-point season was a fluke, sure, but Nicholls was definitely *not* washed-up at age 35, and was in fact still an elite player.

Once he got past age 35, he declined substantially, but that's no different from anyone.

____________

To toss some more names out there, Mike Peca, Michael Pivonka, Ed Olczyk, and Robert Reichel are four guys who had the 'Friesen curve' and were excellent players in their 20s, below-average after age 30, and out of the league by age 33-34.

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05-28-2010, 03:27 AM
  #33
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****, I guess that's what I get for being too lazy to look up stats. Oh well. Kudos to you, good sir.

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05-28-2010, 03:32 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
To toss some more names out there, Mike Peca, Michael Pivonka, Ed Olczyk, and Robert Reichel are four guys who had the 'Friesen curve' and were excellent players in their 20s, below-average after age 30, and out of the league by age 33-34.
Olczyk was never ever the same after what Keenan did to him.

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05-28-2010, 04:00 AM
  #35
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Another homer pick:

Svatoš as 24 year old rookie scored 32 goals in 61 games with Colorado and hat-trick against Calgary as his highlight.
Another four season and he scored 7 goals in around 60 games and with his UFA status is on good way to KHL....

Not exactly a superstar but you are expecting something from guy who had 0,5 goal per game in his first season.

Hey man! Anybody remember BOB KUDELSKI???
1994 - 40 goals (in record-tying 86 games) as 30 year old center after five 20+ goals seasons.
1995 26 games
1996 13 games and he retired. No injury there... Just lost his confidence or I dont know what...

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05-28-2010, 04:31 AM
  #36
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Olli Jokinen and Markus Näslund come to mind. Näslund had a slow start in the NHL and a short but explosive career of stardom for about 5 years. But after Moore got him he played more of a 2nd line sniper, nothing like the numbers he put up earlier. After that Moore slash he just seemed to go downhill. Jokinen went from a 5-6 year streak of dominance to being what he is now .

Pavol Demitra also comes to mind, though he's still pretty good (bit iffy on that- not a star but he's not washed up). Chechoo as well- had that amazing Richard season and looked like Setoguchi and then just fell apart completely.

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05-28-2010, 09:58 AM
  #37
ekcut
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Going back a few years.
Sylvain Turgeon (Pierre's brother)
Scored 40 goals as a 19yr old and 45 as a 21yr old and was out of the game by 30.


Joe Juneau is another good one. (Ha...I'll leave this on here..but after looking at his stats I realize he doesn't really belong. I just remember him scoring 102pts as a rookie and then never coming close to that again. But he was a rookie at age 24. So even though he never came close to matching his rookie numbers, he did play until he was 36....that totally surprises me...I thought he retired in his early 30s.

Petr Nedved
Mike Ricci
Alexei Yashin (still playing in KHL, but NHL days are over thankfully. I basically blame him for the lockout)
Kasperitis
Deadmarsh
Tverdosky
Osolinsh
Dennis Gauthier
Al Iafrate (one of my alltime favs)
Chris Chelios...what ever happened to this guy? He was so good when paired with Moses in the playoffs in 1512B.C. but then you didn't hear from him again...What? He is still playing?????

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Old
05-28-2010, 11:29 AM
  #38
Beauty, eh?
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Deadmarsh


Deadmarsh was on his way to a career year with the Kings when he got injured in practice. Career over.... No way he should be on this list.

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Old
05-28-2010, 11:46 AM
  #39
Jesus Christ Horburn
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Cheechoo, Jonathan.

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05-28-2010, 01:26 PM
  #40
byrath
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Tverdovsky and Ozolinsh are good ones ... I'd have thought the post-lockout game would have been better for these guys, but they both wound up sucking and going back to Russia.

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05-28-2010, 01:34 PM
  #41
DaveG
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Tverdovsky and Ozolinsh are good ones ... I'd have thought the post-lockout game would have been better for these guys, but they both wound up sucking and going back to Russia.
I think the cause on these two were post-concussion syndrome and vodka respectively.

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05-28-2010, 01:54 PM
  #42
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Naslund anyone?

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Old
05-28-2010, 02:33 PM
  #43
Mr Bojanglez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Paul Coffey.

Going from being regarded as the next best thing to Bobby Orr in the 80s-early 90s to the trash we saw in later half of 96-retirement.

He started to fall off as early as in his Pens days but pulled himself together for a couple of seasons after being traded to Detroit.
I don't think that's a fair example. He had such amazing totals before that, eventually it was bound to come down. Coffey turned 35 in 1996. He still put up solid points, as a Dman. 35 points in 96-97.... 29 points in 57 games during 97-98

his second to last season, he put up 40 points in 69 games at the age of 40.

its not all stats, sure. But the guy could still pretty good for his age. Was he the all-star he once was? No, of course not. But even guys like Jagr and Gretzky broke down a bit (by their standards).

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05-28-2010, 09:44 PM
  #44
Big Phil
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Tkachuk perhaps he was rather irrelevant in the NHL at a rather younger age than you would have thought

Turgeon? Had one of the best seasons of his career in 2001, and really when you think of it after his playoffs you might have heard a whisper or two about the 2002 Olympic team. Then goes to Dallas in 2001-'02 and the less we talk about what he became the better. He was only 32 then.

Jeff Friesen for sure. Probably should have been on the Olympic team in 1998 with his speed. Don't know why he fell of the face of the earth so abruptly

Goulet? Kind of fell off the map when he was 29-30 years old, although he did plenty enough in the 1980s to be a HHOFer IMO

Savard? Battled with injuries for sure and I guess you'd have to think that a little guy like that would wear down but he really never put up an elite season after 1988.

Jovanovski? Once a fixture on the Olympic teams. To be honest he isn't all that old that he can't be an elite player to this day, but he's been irrelevant in the NHL for a long time

Ken Hodge, he fell off the map rather quickly. Twice a 100 point man in 1971 and 1974. Was 3rd in scoring in 1974 - a 50 goal man - then was aging and spent two years in NYR after a pitiful trade for in exchange for a young Middleton. Hodge had a rotten knack for following up an elite season for a garbage one. This cost him a spot on the 1972 Summit Series. And I think this bad knack, along with going from 3rd in NHL scoring and racking up 50 goals (still a rather new thing at the time) to being out of the NHL 4 years later cost him a spot in the HHOF

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05-28-2010, 09:45 PM
  #45
Big Phil
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I'll never forgive myself for saying this but how about Trottier? His production started to drop like a stone at a unique age, even for the 1980s.

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05-28-2010, 09:54 PM
  #46
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Maybe it isnt' so much the fact some guys skills rapidly deteriorated as it is that they went to a team and the system ruined them? Sort of how Gary Payton went to play in Phil Jackson's triangle and almost played himself out of being a HOFer.

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05-28-2010, 09:55 PM
  #47
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I'll never forgive myself for saying this but how about Trottier? His production started to drop like a stone at a unique age, even for the 1980s.
Actually, no.

The season his production dropped of was 1988-89, when he fell from 82 points to 45.

His 45 points that season were still the 4th-most in the NHL of any player aged 32 or over. Peter Stastny was still elite and scored 85 points, and Federko and Dave Taylor both had around 60.

I've posted this stat before, but only 5 forwards over age 32 had more than 30 points that season. 20 years later in 2008-09, there were 48 players aged 32 or over who hit that mark.

Prior to 1990, once a player hit age 31-32, they were done. Forwards especially.

It's really strange how much things have changed.

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05-28-2010, 10:10 PM
  #48
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I thought this thread was made for him.

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05-28-2010, 10:24 PM
  #49
MS
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I thought this thread was made for him.
He was injured, though, not washed up. He played 9 games in the season where he was 35 and scored 14 points!

Forsberg goes in the Orr/Lafontaine/Neely category of guys who didn't perform at a high level to an advanced age simply because of injury.

__________

Bah, I hate to be disagreeing with every suggestion in this thread, but the thread is about players who were 'washed up' *before* age 35, and it seems like most of the suggestions are guys like Coffey/Nicholls/Forsberg who were clearly still top performers when they reached that age (when healthy).

The suggestion of Denis Savard above, for ie., fits the thread to a 't' - did absolutely zilch after the age of 30, save for a brief blip in the 1995 playoff for Chicago. Didn't top 50 points after the age of 31, which is a shockingly early drop for a player who was maybe the biggest talent in the league after Gretzky/Lemieux for most of the 1980s.

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05-28-2010, 10:36 PM
  #50
Big Phil
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Actually, no.

The season his production dropped of was 1988-89, when he fell from 82 points to 45.

His 45 points that season were still the 4th-most in the NHL of any player aged 32 or over. Peter Stastny was still elite and scored 85 points, and Federko and Dave Taylor both had around 60.

I've posted this stat before, but only 5 forwards over age 32 had more than 30 points that season. 20 years later in 2008-09, there were 48 players aged 32 or over who hit that mark.

Prior to 1990, once a player hit age 31-32, they were done. Forwards especially.

It's really strange how much things have changed.
Yeah I know it was the 1980s, but still, I always thought he became an afterthought in the NHL rather rapidly. You watch him in the Isles dynasty and he's all over the ice, carrying the play, rushing the puck into the zone, hitting people left right and centre. Then watch him in 1987 the year he turned 31. He wasn't a force anymore. It's true the 1980s had that era of young talent coming up that pushed out the olde fogies but I think it was more a product of Trottier wearing down after all those years. He had played so much hockey by the time he was 30. I really think it wore him down.

Other players to mention are Shutt, McDonald, Barber and Leclair. The first 3 were all 28, 29 years old when the Canada Cup was played in 1981 and were all cut from the team. We all know that when Lafleur faltered so did Shutt but what about McDonald? He gets 66 goals in 1983 when he's 30, almost beating a prime Gretzky, and then gets more than that many POINTS once in a season afterwards. In fact he had a 26 point season 4 years later. Leclair went south when Lindros left town. You hate to see a hockey player become a fraud, but that was the moment that we saw what Leclair could do without #88 and it wasn't pretty.

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