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Old
05-26-2010, 10:11 PM
  #1
VanIslander
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ATD Off-Season Discussion Thread (Relevant ATD Player Talk Between Drafts)

Please save the CHAT ROOM for totally irrelavant talk about the weather, girlfriends, today's game, etc.)

Use this thread for topics for the many months between drafts to talk about draft-relevant material, like research uncovered, analyses done, stuff other ATDers would be interested in for future drafts.

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05-26-2010, 10:12 PM
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Here we go:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikjr.
i found some interesting information from the Hockey Summary Project about Frank Nighbor.

i will add it to my bio, but i also decided to post it here. most of the information i have gathered on Nighbor is to add to understanding of him, more than for use in ATD.


i also noticed something strange. HSP sometimes gives many names in parentheses where the assists usually are listed.

here is an example:
1-31-1920: Montreal 3, Ottawa 11
Nighbor 10 (Arbour, Darragh, Darragh, Gerard, Nighbor, Nighbor) 10:00



In the 1917-1918 season, Frank Nighbor played only 10 of 22 games. I think it was mostly because Nighbor served in the Royal Air Force during part of World War 1. Ottawa and Toronto were working on a deal to transfer Nighbor to Toronto, but i do not think that was a factor.
Nighbor played only 2 of the 1st 13 games.

Discounting the Montreal Wanderers, who folded early in the season (only played 6 games), The '18 Ottawa Senators had the worst GA and the worst GF in the NHL, and missed the playoffs.


Ottawa without Nighbor in '18
3-9 record
59 GF, 73 GA

Ottawa with Nighbor in '18
5-5 record
43 GF, 40 GA


Lalonde's goals vs Ottawa with Nighbor: 1 game, 1g
Lalonde's goals vs Ottawa without Nighbor: 5 games, 8g

Malone's goals vs Ottawa with Nighbor: 3 games, 1g
Malone's goals vs Ottawa without Nighbor: 7 games, 23g


Malone's '18 season has become legendary. He scored 44g in 22 games, the highest goals per game pace in NHL history. But even more amazing is that he scored over half of those goals against Ottawa in 7 games when Nighbor was out of the lineup.



Based purely on the game reports, Nighbor seemed to play much better toward the end of the season. Ottawa won their last 3 games by a combined score of 20-4 (8-0, 3-1, 9-3). Nighbor scored most of his points in these 3 games (7g, 5a).

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05-26-2010, 10:22 PM
  #3
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And,
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
OK, I'm going to do my best to relay the happenings of the weekend here.

I got in just in time to see Philly go up in game 7 and watch the end of the game with a bunch of hardcore hockey fans, That was nice. the result wasn't.

Bones Raleigh was in attendance, watching the game with the rest of us, and had brought a lot of material for our perusal. Old magazines and programs and leaflets and stuff. The programs were a phenomenal reference. They had short little bios on every Ranger player. I remember one passage on Laprade said that he was a wonderful stickhandler and that if someone was to track who spend the most time in possession of the puck in a game, Laprade would lead the category easily. This confirms the impression I got watching him on NHL Network in "1950 Stanley Cup Film". I also got to meet a lot of the better-known hockey historians out there like Jim Mancuso, Bill Fitzell, and Roger Godin. Pretty mucheveryone introduced themselves at some point at the meet-greet and everyone seemed a little interested in who this new young guy was, and what he's up to.

The next morning was all the business related stuff which I won't bore you with. Finalcial stuff, membership numbers, etc. I got to formally introduce myself at this point. You were supposed to mention your area of interest, and though I have many, I said "I am most interested in the pre-merger period of 1910 when the NHA was formed, until 1926 when the NHL took control of the Stanley Cup, and I like scouring books and old newspapers, collecting quotes and assembling detailed bios on players, and this is probably the only room in the world where I can say that I am the world's biggest Eddie Oatman fan without being looked at funny".

In the intermission prior to the guest speaker, Bill Fitzell came to me. Fitzell was the SIHR's founding president and author of three excellent historical books, mostly on the game's origins. I told him that it was humbling to meet such a hockey research legend, and he chuckled and said "well, maybe I'm a legend in my own mind". He said that he was quite interested to hear about my interest in the 1910-1926 period, and said that it was a very interesting "transitional" period. He then asked what kind of work and research I do. I thought rather than sugarcoat anything or hide the scope of my research, I put it all out there. In a minute I explained that I am essentially a competitive researcher, and that I participate in these things called "All-Time Drafts" where we pick players from throughout history and compare players from different eras, and vote on the results, so the motivation to ice a competitive team drives your desire to do solid and extensie research on the players, as you want to show that you picked the best players. His words were "that's a very worthwhile endeavor", which was of course encuraging to hear. He took down my name and email, as well as the address to hfboards so he could check out my work.

Amanda was a wonderrful guest and I am glad she was interested in coming along. She was actually the only significant other to make the journey. A few members told her in the elevator that they found me to be an interesting young member. She of course went out and did her own thing for much of the day, having a "spa day" but joined us for lunch after Don Raleigh's talk.

Raleigh, according to some members who know him better, wasn't in the greatest shape but lives on his own and can walk around just fine and speak at a good volume. He spoke for about 15 minutes and then spent a half hour answering questions. About Phil Watson (who I think is probably the worst coach ever to last more than a season), raleigh said "if you ever want to play for a guy who thinks he's god, try plying for that guy". He mentioned one night the Habs were pushing them around at MSG, and in the intermission, watson was tearing strips off everyone and then turned to Raleigh and said "and you, Bones, you shadow him", to which he replied "what's my shadow going to do?" - watson was not impressed. Also, can't remember who was the player who gave the quote, but Raleigh, who played at 145 pounds, said that a player in the 50s was asked in an interview who was the hardest hitter in the NHL, and he replied "Bones Raleigh". And the reporter asked "Why would you say Bones Raleigh? He's 145 pounds!" and the plaer replied "But when he hits you, he cuts you!"

raleigh also relayyed a pretty humorous story about how when he was playing against the Kraut line he said to his linemates "let's make sure to get some sticks in their faces", lined up, adn the next thing he remembered, he was on the ice with Schmidt on top of him saying "get your sticks in our faces, eh???"

Everyone asked a few questions; unfortunately, not many of them were that memorable but that's fine, they asked whatever they wanted to know. A few even asked him his opinions on this year's playoffs. Which reminds me, he mentioned that the way players "finish their checks" today would be considered charging/boarding every time back in the 50s. Another guy also asked who as the best player he played against, he named the usual suspects, Schmidt, richard, and Howe, but one guy noticed he didn't mention Lindsay and asked him later why not. he said he didn't like Lindsay and he was "one mean SOB". And that he still dislikes the wings to this day because of him, and was happy to see them eliminated.

I had three questions for Bones. First, I asked "you played briefly with Fred Shero. At the time, did he show signs of the eccentricity/genius that would later bring him success as a coach?" - he replied "naah, I couldn't tell what he was going to end up doing". then I asked, "You mention Phil Watson as a coach and what playing for him was like. About Phil Watson the player, he has good offensive numbers and was known as a fiery guy. Was he a defensive player at all? Did the coach tend to match him up against the opposition's best lines?" His reply was long and talked about a lof of things but stated that generally they liked to put bigger players against the best, and Watson was quite small so that wasn't his usual role. Lastly, I asked "I read that the 7 New York hockey writers unanimously voted you the Rangers' MVP of the playoffs in 1950. Were you aware of this?" and he replied that he was aware, and that they actually presented him with a silver bowl that was inscribed to him as the MVP.

Lunch was next, and I was fortunate that Bones sat at an open spot close to me. He and Morris Mott spoke a lot while I listened. I heard him tell a story about Maurice Richard. the habs were ahead late in the game, Richard had the puck at his own goal line, and without looking, threw it blindly back, all the way down the ice, right into the vacated New York net for the insurance goal. Bones skted by him and said "richard, you lucky so-and-so", and Richard laughed and said "I'd rather be lucky than good!" Amanda wants me to be sure to mention that at this point, Don noticed that there was pie across the room but didnt want to walk all the way to get it, and Amanda went and got him a piece. Morris then presented to Raleigh, as appreciation for joining us, his choice of these McFarlane figurines, still sealed. He said "you have a choice between red Howe, white Howe, or Richard." Without hesitation, Raleigh chose Richard. then an opportunity came up to go to a Memorial cup game and sit with Raleigh, plus he needed a ride back to Winnipeg. I was ready to do both, but a) I'd have missed all the afternoon presentations that I came for, and b) I'd have been unable to resist asking Raleigh queston after question, to the point of annoyance. So someone else spoke up.

Prior to Bones leaving, he took some pictures with some guys and signed autographs. I asked for a picture, and while posing, I asked him, "I noticed you selected Maurice Richard over Howe pretty quickly. How come?" and he gave a story about how years after their careers were over, richard was given the order of Canada along with a friend of Raleigh's family and Richard spoke highly of him even then, so he has a warm spot in his heart for Richard. When asked about them as players and who was better (the inevitable question", He replied "Let me pue it this way" - (a dodging tactic that nearly everyone from the era will use, and I of course don't hold it against him) - "Richard was interested in one thing - scoring goals, and nothing else. Howe was interested in scoring goals and taking care of himself too". So, since this was likely the only chance of my life to ask someone of this stature such a question, I pressed further, "could I interpret that as saying that Richard was not very good defensively?" and he again said "let me put it this way - If I'm a coach, and I have a guy who can score goals like that, I let him go score goals, and worry about defense later." So you could say that the answeres were inconclusive, but reading between the lines I think it's safe to say he feels Howe was better/more valuable, and that Richard wasn't much of a backchecker (but that we shouldn't hold it against him, which I don't, unless he's being compared to a Beliveau or Hull or Mikita)

the afternoon presentations were interesting and varied. There was a great presentation on the career and life of Frank Fredrickson, and another on Glen Hanlon (the presentations were chosen to have a distinct Brandon/Manitoba flavour - note that Ranford, Hextall, and Broda all came from Brandon - and all were Smythe winners!) But the highlight was a presentation on an old stick that a member had aquired. he traced the family lineage of the stick's owners and involved a couple science experts, to determine the age of the wood and the composition of the paints used (there were 4 layers in varying conditions) - it was determined that, through the rings in the wood at the butt of the stick, they could analyze growth patterns (based on thick and thin rings) and compare to similar trees in similar areas to determine when the tree was cut down. Ultimately, it was between 1835 and 1838. And the four layers of paint were consistent with the paints used over the years. It was fascinating stuff.

Later, at dinner, I had a chance to ask Morris Mott for his opinions on a lot of old players, which I'll post later tonight. Morris is a very unique case, as he is one of very few players I can ask about international stars (as he played for team Canada under David Bauer) and about NHL playerd (as he played 3 NHL seasons) - It was deadly info, and he even gave me the name of a teammate of his who is retired in Regina and would love to talk about that stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
OK, so hereare some things Morris Mott said. All quotes are meant to be as direct as memory will allow. My comments and interpretations are in brackets.

- I really wanted to ask him more about what it was like playing against Tarasov, but we kept getting sidetracked by other things.

- I started by asking about Firsov. I said that in our circles, he's considered an all-time great. I said, "since you played against Firsov, and against NHL players, what is your opinion of him? Could he have starred in the NHL?" He said, "I don't know if he could have starred." (which I took to mean that he could have definitely played, but maybe not have been a star) "He was definitely their best player. But he was more of a finesse guy, not a power guy. (this is contrary to the picture we usually paint of Firsov, a bit of a Russian power forward) He had tons of moves. This one time, we were watching them practice and Firsov was lining up in the middle and he's a right handed shooter, and they're giving him cross-ice passes from the corner, and he's one-timing them, one by one, into the top corner. Like lasers. If there was a goalie in the net at the time, he wouldn't have stopped them."

- I asked him about Starshinov, he said that he was much more of a power player than Firsov. He said he talked to him once, but the guy only knew enough english to barely make himself understood. Boris Mayorov apparently knew more English, as an engineer.

- He mentioned Konovalenko, and I asked what he thought of him. "I didn't think he was that good," he said. "The Russians controlled the game a lot, and he didn't get a lot of shots." Later on, he mentioned Dzurilla was better.

- I asked about Mikhailov being really tough and fiery, and he said that despite the kicking incident in 1972 that indicated a serious hatred between the two teams, in Morris' time it never felt like they hated eachother, they were just opposing teams. Nothing ever escalated to summit series levels.

- He was mentioning how there was a changing of the guard when he was playing internationally. Firsov was slowing down, and Alexandrov/Almetov/Loktev were also not at their best. He said "Almetov was the brains of that line. Loktev was more of a digger." (which is well in line with what we thought already) Guys like Petrov were just starting out.

- He said Yakushev was very good, and his shot really stood out. He said they were playing in an arena once where there was mesh above the glass, and a Yakushev slapshot hit the mesh and zinged straight back into the arena over the goalie's head.

- He named some defensemen who were really good - Ragulin, Vasiliev (who was very young at the time) and he said Kuzkin was a guy who isn't talked about that much, but he was really good.

- He said Maltsev was supremely talented. I asked if he could be thrown off by physical play, he said "I wouldn't know."

- He agreed with me that Tarasov's commitment to fitness was a key to the Soviets' ability to dominate internationally. I said that they had only been playing hockey since 1945 but they were competing with amateurs 10 years later and with pros 17 years after that, I figured they couldn't have necessarily been more skilled, but had the fitness level to just keep on skating and skating, and he agreed.

- He mentioned Chernyshev too. He said that about 7-8 years after he had last played, he was at a game that the Russians played in Saskatchewan against a junior team. He was walking under the bleachers behind the bench and said high to Chernyshev. He introduced himself as "Morris Mott, number 20" and Chernyshev's face lit up and he threw his arms around him. This goes to show that there wasn't so much animosity in those times, and a lot of mutual respect. (Mott was also a pretty clean player as evidenced by his PIM totals, so they probably especially respected him)

- I asked him about some of the other prominent individual players. I said, "who was that really fiery guy on the Czechs?" (I had misplaced his name, but he was my MLD11 4th line center) - "Oh! Golonka!", he says. "Didn't care for him. Real showboaty." I told him about the time when he scored a goal against the Russians and aimed his stick at their bench like a gun, and he nodded as if to say "yep, sounds like him." He said "I remember him diving and rolling around like he had been shot sometimes" - which really adds to his "razor blade" nickname and reputation as an agitating, gritty player, but maybe takes away from his reputation as a leader.

- He said that the Swedes had a great defenseman that stuck out, Roland Stoltz, who was a great AAA10 pick by Spitfire11. He also said the Czechs had an excellent defenseman by the name of Jan Suchy. And the Germans had a great one too, named Lennart Svedberg, but that he died so young. I forgot to ask him about Martinec - but I wanted to!

- Finally, I asked him about Bobby Orr, since he played in Orr's heyday. I said, "with the expansion division, you wouldn't have played Orr as much as some guys, but you would have still had some games against him. What was that like?" He said "well, he was already having some troubles with his knee by then. I think we played him about 4-5 times." I asked, "Did he ever make you look silly?" He kind of looked at me as if to say, "come on..." so I added, "because it seems like he did that to everyone at some point". He said no, but there was an interesting play that happened that showed how good he was. He said, "I killed a lot of penalties, and this one time, Orr's slapshot hits me right in the shinpad and bounced out of the zone. A lot of times that happens and you're home free because you're already moving forward. Well, he caught me by the far blueline. That guy could skate just as fast as he needed to. Some say he was an excellent puckhandler. I don't think he was even that good as a puckhandler. It was all his skating." Then as we were leaving the restaurant he showed me how when you're defending against Orr as soon as you commit to one direction he's going the other way and you're beat, and that coupled with his speed made him so tough to defend against. Even if you could compensate for his feint, he was so fast that he was past you by then.

I have probably forgotten some things; as they pop into my head I'll post them in this thread.

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05-31-2010, 02:09 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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I found this tidbit on the 1934 playoffs on the Hall of Fame website listing Retro Conn Smythes:

For 1933-34:

Quote:
Lionel Conacher-Chicago
The Hawks used the trap and a smothering defence to take the playoffs. Conacher was at his hard-hitting best and ex NHLer Johnny "Peanuts" O'Flaherty said "Conacher blocked more shots than Charlie Gardiner and was the definite difference in the finals". Conacher also led many rushes out of his own end and scored two goals on these rushes. He was mentioned as a star in six of the eight games his team played.
Don't let anyone try to tell you that your coach from the 1950s doesn't know how to play trapping hockey.

Also most people are aware of this one, but it's from Art Ross's Pelletier bio:
Quote:
Ross also came up with early forms of a helmet and the plus/minus system, not to mention the "kitty bar the door," which resembles today's neutral zone trap.
From wiki:
Quote:
[In 1914-15]Ross created a new system of defence. Termed "kitty bar the door," it required three defenders to align themselves across the ice 30 feet in front of the goaltender to stop offensive rushes.[1] This style of defence would later be used in a modified version known as the neutral zone trap.[2]

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05-31-2010, 02:12 PM
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Also, Joe Pelletier created several new bios recently. One of them is about "Battleship" Leduc and seems to contradict our impression of him as a smooth skater:

Quote:
"His aggressive scrambling play made him very popular with the fans and his appearance on the ice drew lots of applause," wrote Charles Coleman in Trail of the Stanley Cup. "When he got up a full head of steam it seemed uncertain if he could be stopped or stop himself. This is how he earned the sobriquet of Battleship."
Sounds more like an out of control skater than a smooth skater to me. Still, his offensive numbers speak for themselves.

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05-31-2010, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I found this tidbit on the 1934 playoffs on the Hall of Fame website listing Retro Conn Smythes:

For 1933-34:
I found that! And I posted it in our series thread.

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05-31-2010, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I found that! And I posted it in our series thread.
heh, well, um, I'm sure you weren't the first to read it either.

Anyway, it basically reinforces the image of Tommy Gorman as a guy who basically used the equivalent of a trapping defense.

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05-31-2010, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
heh, well, um, I'm sure you weren't the first to read it either.

Anyway, it basically reinforces the image of Tommy Gorman as a guy who basically used the equivalent of a trapping defense.
...and of Conacher as the TRUE MVP of the 1934 playoffs!

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06-01-2010, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
...and of Conacher as the TRUE MVP of the 1934 playoffs!
Honestly, I used to put more faith into the Retro Smythes until I examined them more closely. I think they are way too facscinated with stats.

Tim Horton, known primarily for his defense, led a Stanley Cup winning team in points in 1962, and yet they give the Retro Smythe to Stan Mikita? Mikita set a new record with 21 playoff points, but Horton had 16 himself as a defenseman.

And then what's the year that Nighbor dominated the playoffs but Darraugh had 3 game winning goals, so they gave it to him? (Darraugh has 2 Retro Smythes).

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06-02-2010, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Honestly, I used to put more faith into the Retro Smythes until I examined them more closely. I think they are way too facscinated with stats.

Tim Horton, known primarily for his defense, led a Stanley Cup winning team in points in 1962, and yet they give the Retro Smythe to Stan Mikita? Mikita set a new record with 21 playoff points, but Horton had 16 himself as a defenseman.

And then what's the year that Nighbor dominated the playoffs but Darraugh had 3 game winning goals, so they gave it to him? (Darraugh has 2 Retro Smythes).
I think you are partially right but that's not much different from the real smythes either.

If you read what went into these awards it was a pretty solid process.

However, if they were obsessed with stats then Gardiner was a shoo-in for MVP, but they gave it to Conacher

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06-04-2010, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I think you are partially right but that's not much different from the real smythes either.

If you read what went into these awards it was a pretty solid process.

However, if they were obsessed with stats then Gardiner was a shoo-in for MVP, but they gave it to Conacher
I have no problem with the Conacher retro Smythe. The biggest problem I have with the retro Smythes is that they give it to a forward on a losing team too often (like Mikita over Horton in 62).

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06-10-2010, 04:18 PM
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http://www.sihrhockey.org/pdfs/searc...nie_morris.pdf

A short thingy on Bernie Morris.

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06-11-2010, 05:35 AM
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I just found some intresting quotes from Cyclone Taylor, and I thought I would share.

Quote:
“The brothers, Lester and Frank Patrick, were really good ones. Lester was a classical player in every phase of the game whereas Frank was strong defensively. But Frank could also carry the puck from one end of the rink to the other if he had to, and he did it often.”
From what I've seen, this is the first reference to Frank's defensive ability. Just one quote doesn't turn him into a shut-down guy, but I think it does help eliminate some of the questions surrounding his defensive play.

Quote:
“To me the most appealing player is Bobby Hull, because I know he loves the game and I’ll bet he could play sixty minutes a game if they’d let him.
On the other hand, there’s Gordie Howe. A great player, but not the sensational type like Hull who’s all color. Howe is more steady.
Another fellow I liked was Rocket Richard. He was a terrific opportunist. He didn’t go down the ice too often to fetch the puck, but when they brought it half way up and gave it to him he could do the rest. He had style all his own.”
Poor Richard.... gets backhanded compliments all over the place

Quote:
“Take Newsy Lalonde. He wasn’t all that fast but he would get to the other end of the rink and know where the puck was. He always took the shortest route while I always took the longest because I loved to skate.”
Sounds like Newsy might be a little slow afoot.

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06-11-2010, 06:56 AM
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Dreakmur, where the hell from? cite sources please!

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06-11-2010, 12:56 PM
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Thanks for the Frank Patrick reference. That at least helps us paint a better picture of him.

The Lalonde quote is interesting as well. I actually noticed Foster Hewitt say something similar in his extremely old book "Down the Ice" - he didn't call him slow either, but said something like "not the fastest skater".

Sources need to be cited, though!

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06-11-2010, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Thanks for the Frank Patrick reference. That at least helps us paint a better picture of him.

The Lalonde quote is interesting as well. I actually noticed Foster Hewitt say something similar in his extremely old book "Down the Ice" - he didn't call him slow either, but said something like "not the fastest skater".

Sources need to be cited, though!
From a book called Those Were the Days. About half the chapters are done by Stan Fischler, but the other half are done by players - Cyclone Taylor, Frank Boucher, Newsy Lalond, Maurice Richard, Frank Fredrickson, Joe Primuea, and many more.

I haven't read through whole book yet. I'll post more good stuff as I find it. Let me know if you want me to skip to a certain part.


Edit-

The list of players who wrote chapters is as follows:

Cylcone Taylor
Newsy Lalonde
Cooper Smeaton
Frank Fedrickson
Bobby Hewitson
Frank Boucher
Joe Primeau
Johnny Gagnon
Ebbie Goodfellow
Myles Lane
Gerry Crosby
Babe Pratt
Bill Chadwick
Tom Lockhart
Bill Durnan
Maurice Richard


Last edited by Dreakmur: 06-11-2010 at 02:22 PM.
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06-11-2010, 02:25 PM
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Here's a really intersting one from Maurice Richard:

Quote:
"After Durnan and Brimsek, Plante was the best."
Another Cyclone Tayor:

Quote:
"... the Manitoba League was one of the strongest on the continent."


Last edited by Dreakmur: 06-11-2010 at 10:21 PM.
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06-14-2010, 08:04 PM
  #18
chaosrevolver
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
heh, well, um, I'm sure you weren't the first to read it either.

Anyway, it basically reinforces the image of Tommy Gorman as a guy who basically used the equivalent of a trapping defense.
Lol, yeah I read that when researching my coach pick. It's what sold me on him in the last draft.

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06-17-2010, 12:27 PM
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markrander87
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SIHR Account

I just signed up, and im wondering some of the advantages or fuctions of the site? Is there a place to find career top 20'2 in goals, assists etc... What parts of the website do you guys find most useful? Are there bios on older era players?

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06-18-2010, 05:18 PM
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seventieslord
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
I just signed up, and im wondering some of the advantages or fuctions of the site? Is there a place to find career top 20'2 in goals, assists etc... What parts of the website do you guys find most useful? Are there bios on older era players?
The best part of having an SIHR account is the stats database. There are no places where top-20s are compiled, or anything like that, but you can navigate freely from player to team to league which is very useful for pre-NHL players and PCHA guys. It helps you to put their stats in context and understand where they ranked each season.

Looking at where defensemen ranked each season is tougher because they only list one position for each player and then use if for each year of their career. But if you're ever wondering about an early player who palyed forward and defense, let me know because I've become quite the expert on who played defense in which seasons.

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06-21-2010, 05:06 PM
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BM67
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Just finished Conn Smythe's Hockey Dynasty by Jack Batten, and there are some good quotables in it. Thought I'd pass this one for Bert Olmstead along.

"Olmstead was the major loss on the forward lines from the '62 Stanley Cup team. Imlach decided not to protect him in the player draft, and New York plucked him off. He was missed. His scrapping, workhorse style had made the difference to Toronto in the series against Chicago the previous spring, and it was Olmstead who provided the Leafs with a lift more often than Armstrong, the captain, or any of the other veteran players. But Olmstead at least left behind a legacy of toughness. Many of the young Leafs - Pulford, Brewer, Keon, Baun - had developed with Toronto in the days when Olmstead harangued and berated players for lazy work. They learned from Olmstead to play hard and tough, and when he was gone, they still remembered his lessons."

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06-21-2010, 05:36 PM
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EagleBelfour
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Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
Just finished Conn Smythe's Hockey Dynasty by Jack Batten, and there are some good quotables in it. Thought I'd pass this one for Bert Olmstead along.

"Olmstead was the major loss on the forward lines from the '62 Stanley Cup team. Imlach decided not to protect him in the player draft, and New York plucked him off. He was missed. His scrapping, workhorse style had made the difference to Toronto in the series against Chicago the previous spring, and it was Olmstead who provided the Leafs with a lift more often than Armstrong, the captain, or any of the other veteran players. But Olmstead at least left behind a legacy of toughness. Many of the young Leafs - Pulford, Brewer, Keon, Baun - had developed with Toronto in the days when Olmstead harangued and berated players for lazy work. They learned from Olmstead to play hard and tough, and when he was gone, they still remembered his lessons."
Beautiful quote, it's with players like Bert Olmstead that you win championship. I'm not sure if we view those type of players high enough in the ATD.

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06-21-2010, 05:47 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
Just finished Conn Smythe's Hockey Dynasty by Jack Batten, and there are some good quotables in it. Thought I'd pass this one for Bert Olmstead along.

"Olmstead was the major loss on the forward lines from the '62 Stanley Cup team. Imlach decided not to protect him in the player draft, and New York plucked him off. He was missed. His scrapping, workhorse style had made the difference to Toronto in the series against Chicago the previous spring, and it was Olmstead who provided the Leafs with a lift more often than Armstrong, the captain, or any of the other veteran players. But Olmstead at least left behind a legacy of toughness. Many of the young Leafs - Pulford, Brewer, Keon, Baun - had developed with Toronto in the days when Olmstead harangued and berated players for lazy work. They learned from Olmstead to play hard and tough, and when he was gone, they still remembered his lessons."
That is a fantastic quote - I'm in the semifinals of a Leafs-only ATD right now (only time spent as a Leaf counts), and Olmstead is our 2nd line LW. That increases his value exponentially.

Also, thanks for the tip on the book. I had no idea a book by this title existed.

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06-23-2010, 01:51 AM
  #24
EagleBelfour
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In 1927-28:

'' The Americans gave Lionel Conacher a chance at centre now and then but the rangy defenceman was surely out of place there in spite of his goal production''. - Trail of the Stanley Cup, Volume 2 (p.38)

Top-10 Scoring among defenseman (1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 7th)
Top-10 Goalscoring among defenseman (1st, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 7th, 7th)
Top-10 Assist among defenseman (2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 5th, 5th)

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06-23-2010, 08:10 AM
  #25
BM67
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"The despondency Seibert felt over Morenz's fate was dispelled - at least temporarily - in the spring of 1938. Playing right wing for much of the season on a Chicago team guided by a rookie coach (former NHL referee Bill Stewart) - one on which no fewer than eight U.S.-born players performed, a club that won a mere 14 games out of 48 played - Seibert enjoyed a spectacular playoffs, averaging about 55 minutes of every game and helped his team win the Stanley Cup. The Hawks' win over Toronto is remembered as one of the most shocking upsets in Cup history." - The Blackhawks, Brian McFarlane's Original Six

Seibert was a 2nd team all-star on D that season, so hard to say what "for much of the season" really means.

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