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Flames will stick with Iginla and Sutter. Assistant GM to come?

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Old
05-27-2010, 05:56 PM
  #51
bam09
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Originally Posted by C For Choke View Post
There were about 29 other GMs would would trade a 2nd/3rd line center and a low 1st round pick for Jokinen at the time. The judgment at the time was a good one.
6 months earlier he was traded for a 6th dman, a solid 2nd pairing guy, and a 2nd round pick. Jokinen was terrible for Phoenix and they actually got more. Lombardi is more valuable than Ballard and obviously a first round pick outweighs a 2nd round pick.

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Old
05-27-2010, 08:23 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by bam09 View Post
6 months earlier he was traded for a 6th dman, a solid 2nd pairing guy, and a 2nd round pick. Jokinen was terrible for Phoenix and they actually got more. Lombardi is more valuable than Ballard and obviously a first round pick outweighs a 2nd round pick.


Are you kidding me? Ballard is way better than Lombardi. A much more complete package. His value is also just as much better.

I would also not call Boynton a #6, more of a #5.

The 2nd was in the 2008 draft. The prospect picked with that pick would have rated much higher in this years draft.

The 2 Jokinen trades were very similar in value. If anything, Calgary got the better deal.

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05-28-2010, 12:56 AM
  #53
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Did this guy really just say Dion carried Regehr?? Are you sure your not a leafs fan? If not than cab I have some of what your having ..Oh and FYI Regehr was twice the player being paired with White

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Old
05-28-2010, 12:41 PM
  #54
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Did this guy really just say Dion carried Regehr?? Are you sure your not a leafs fan? If not than cab I have some of what your having ..Oh and FYI Regehr was twice the player being paired with White
You're right, saying Dion carried Reg was probably not the best way to put it. My point was that Dion looked awfully bad and got a lot of **** dumped on him when it was, in fact, Reg who was the one causing the problems. And to say Reg looked like twice the player with White is laughable. Reg still looked every bit as bad...

And to the previous post; no I'm not anyone in disguise. I'm someone who lurked around here for a long time and decided some of you needed a little refresher on what's going on. And I'll say it again; I'd rather cut my left nut off than be a Maple Laugh fan.

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05-28-2010, 01:10 PM
  #55
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Here is a somewhat irreverent take on the story from the two guys (Mike Halford and Jason Brough) at the Vancouver Province newspaper's Orland Kurtenblog:
Quote:
jason says:
wow, nothing says confidence in your GM like hiring a couple of guys to make sure he doesn't do anything dumb

mike says:
wonder if they'll just follow him around all day

jason says:
"you sure it's a good idea to smoke that cigarette at the gas station, mr. sutter?"

mike says:
"actually, that's the radiator, mr. sutter...gas goes over there"
...
mike says:
Calgary Hitmen general manager Kelly Kisio, who’s done a wonderful job keeping the junior team consistently competitive, is a prime candidate for promotion and would have to be considered a front-runner to move upstairs.

jason says:
just a thought...maybe the flames should expand their sights a bit when hiring new personnel

mike says:
nah, this way's easier

jason says:
"after an extensive search, the flames have hired kelly kisio, who has an office down the hall anyway so it works out nicely"
...
mike says:
this should make flames fan happy:
“The minimum standard here,’’ said King, “is making the playoffs. We didn’t achieve that. That is, in our minds, a partial setback. We have to do better.’’

jason says:
a "partial setback"

mike says:
ya, maybe just say it was a setback...nothing partial about it

jason says:
to ken king, the oil spill in the gulf of mexico is somewhat of an environmental disaster
http://communities.canada.com/thepro...-and-more.aspx

These two guys each think they are real wits - but they are only half-right.

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05-28-2010, 01:24 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Here is a somewhat irreverent take on the story from the two guys (Mike Halford and Jason Brough) at the Vancouver Province newspaper's Orland Kurtenblog:

http://communities.canada.com/thepro...-and-more.aspx

These two guys each think they are real wits - but they are only half-right.


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05-28-2010, 01:57 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by RipThisJoint View Post
You're right, saying Dion carried Reg was probably not the best way to put it. My point was that Dion looked awfully bad and got a lot of **** dumped on him when it was, in fact, Reg who was the one causing the problems. And to say Reg looked like twice the player with White is laughable. Reg still looked every bit as bad...

And to the previous post; no I'm not anyone in disguise. I'm someone who lurked around here for a long time and decided some of you needed a little refresher on what's going on. And I'll say it again; I'd rather cut my left nut off than be a Maple Laugh fan.
I agree Regher has his own issues and has played poor the last couple of years. This last one especially. The only reason he didn't get ripped on as much as dion is because everyone wanted dion to be the golden child and he wasen't. Also his salary hit.

IMO dump Reg and try for volchenkov...The price will be high but I bet it'll be worth every penny.

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05-28-2010, 02:00 PM
  #58
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lol I was about to post a picture from dumb and dumber but you beat me to it

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Old
05-28-2010, 02:45 PM
  #59
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I agree Regher has his own issues and has played poor the last couple of years. This last one especially. The only reason he didn't get ripped on as much as dion is because everyone wanted dion to be the golden child and he wasen't. Also his salary hit.

IMO dump Reg and try for volchenkov...The price will be high but I bet it'll be worth every penny.
With Phaneuf, Regehr played like crap and wasn't happy. Phaneuf leaves and Regehr has an amzing 2nd half with White and is much happier...

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05-28-2010, 02:56 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by flames123 View Post
With Phaneuf, Regehr played like crap and wasn't happy. Phaneuf leaves and Regehr has an amzing 2nd half with White and is much happier...
What were you watching? Reg still looked every bit as bad down the stretch when the team needed him to be the old Reg. The guy was a plus player twice during the final month of the season...

Not good enough...

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05-28-2010, 03:18 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by RipThisJoint View Post
What were you watching? Reg still looked every bit as bad down the stretch when the team needed him to be the old Reg. The guy was a plus player twice during the final month of the season...

Not good enough...
You're the only one seeing it that way perhaps you're a little delusional. There's no question he played better once paired with White (as can be statistically proven if you so desire). They seemed to work quite well together but they weren't as effective as Gio and Sarich were. That's why I wonder if trading Regehr for some scoring help and some picks doesn't make more sense than trading Sarich. We have so many defensive minded dman that could step in once Regehr or Sarich is traded it makes it almost impossible to think that at least 1 of them is on the move. Pelech should be in the show now.

And when being a debbie downer also mention that Sutter is responsible for Borque being brought to Calgary for a 2nd rounder or maybe Kipper for a 2nd rounder. You preach that you can use objectivity but don't have any clue what it really means.

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05-28-2010, 03:39 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by DownInFlames View Post
You're the only one seeing it that way perhaps you're a little delusional. There's no question he played better once paired with White (as can be statistically proven if you so desire). They seemed to work quite well together but they weren't as effective as Gio and Sarich were. That's why I wonder if trading Regehr for some scoring help and some picks doesn't make more sense than trading Sarich. We have so many defensive minded dman that could step in once Regehr or Sarich is traded it makes it almost impossible to think that at least 1 of them is on the move. Pelech should be in the show now.

And when being a debbie downer also mention that Sutter is responsible for Borque being brought to Calgary for a 2nd rounder or maybe Kipper for a 2nd rounder. You preach that you can use objectivity but don't have any clue what it really means.
I watched every single game, mate. I watched Regehr struggle with White just like I saw him struggle with Dion. Difference being that White is smarter then Dion - at this stage - positionally. Kipper was still being asked to make ridiculous saves every time Reg was on the ice. Perhaps I'm not the one who is delusional?

I agree that Reg should be sent out while he still has value. Defensive defenseman start their decline around 30 years old. Guess how old Reg is? And you make a decent point about Bourque and Kipper being brought in for 2nd rounders. Difference is this team is no longer in a win now mode and Darryl has still sent picks out in trades. Just look at the Staios trade.

You can call me a Debbie Downer all you want if it makes you feel better. But the Debbie Downer will be when this team is stuck in 13th or 14th place with no prospects, aging veterans and same damn GM calling the shots. That's the Debbie Downer...

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05-28-2010, 03:40 PM
  #63
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more panic moves?

Sutters moves were not panic moves. He did them in a last ditch effort to save the season after everyone had been screaming about how he hadn't done anything. He was not paniced, just a little desperate.
Trading Dion Phaneuf SCREAMED panic. Trading for Steve Staios and Ales Kotalik SCREAMED panic. Trading Dustin Boyd was silly at best. The only trade that made sense was Toskala.

Those trades set this franchise back several years at best. At worst, we're going to look at the Phaneuf trade for years as one that borders on Mike Milbury levels of stupidity.

Trading Iginla is something I'm for, but I can accept him staying. Keeping Darryl Sutter after all this is MIND-BLOWING.

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05-28-2010, 03:42 PM
  #64
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Perhaps Yzerman didn't want the Assistant GM job, and wanted the real thing instead?
Then we should've said 'You got it Steve!' and fired Sutter.

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05-28-2010, 03:44 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by RipThisJoint View Post
I watched every single game, mate. I watched Regehr struggle with White just like I saw him struggle with Dion. Difference being that White is smarter then Dion - at this stage - positionally. Kipper was still being asked to make ridiculous saves every time Reg was on the ice. Perhaps I'm not the one who is delusional?

I agree that Reg should be sent out while he still has value. Defensive defenseman start their decline around 30 years old. Guess how old Reg is? And you make a decent point about Bourque and Kipper being brought in for 2nd rounders. Difference is this team is no longer in a win now mode and Darryl has still sent picks out in trades. Just look at the Staios trade.

You can call me a Debbie Downer all you want if it makes you feel better. But the Debbie Downer will be when this team is stuck in 13th or 14th place with no prospects, aging veterans and same damn GM calling the shots. That's the Debbie Downer...
Regehr's play dramatically improved after the Phaneuf deal... and it was blatantly obvious to everyone... but hey opinions are like *******s everyone has one

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05-28-2010, 03:50 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Here is a somewhat irreverent take on the story from the two guys (Mike Halford and Jason Brough) at the Vancouver Province newspaper's Orland Kurtenblog:

http://communities.canada.com/thepro...-and-more.aspx

These two guys each think they are real wits - but they are only half-right.
Find me something they said that's technically incorrect.

'At minimum our organization wants to get to the playoffs'- Then you FAILED. It's not a 'partial setback' it's friggen disgraceful considering this team was one of only a handful to have made the playoffs every year since the lockout. And since then, they've gotten steadily worse every year.

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05-28-2010, 04:02 PM
  #67
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'At minimum our organization wants to get to the playoffs'- Then you FAILED.

Well no sh-t they failed. Ken King and just about everyone else in the organization has said as much.

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05-28-2010, 04:25 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
Regehr's play dramatically improved after the Phaneuf deal... and it was blatantly obvious to everyone... but hey opinions are like *******s everyone has one
Except those who choose to not look at it through rose-coloured glasses. No, Regehr's game did not improve dramatically. He was still getting beat like a rented mule when he had White next to him. Regehr's game requires him to keep up with the opposition and he looks like he's slowing, foot-speed wise.

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05-28-2010, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RipThisJoint View Post
Except those who choose to not look at it through rose-coloured glasses. No, Regehr's game did not improve dramatically. He was still getting beat like a rented mule when he had White next to him. Regehr's game requires him to keep up with the opposition and he looks like he's slowing, foot-speed wise.
I don't think he's slowing I just think forwards are getting faster. The game is leaving him behind

There was no dramatic improvment except that he had someone more reliable playing beside him. Regher didn't improve his partner did.

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05-28-2010, 04:35 PM
  #70
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I don't think he's slowing I just think forwards are getting faster. The game is leaving him behind

There was no dramatic improvment except that he had someone more reliable playing beside him. Regher didn't improve his partner did.
Good point. And I think it's a combination of both. This team really should look at trading him while he has value. Perhaps that why they brought in Staios? To fill the leadership gap the Flames would lose if they traded him? Just thinking out loud.

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05-28-2010, 04:43 PM
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Except those who choose to not look at it through rose-coloured glasses. No, Regehr's game did not improve dramatically. He was still getting beat like a rented mule when he had White next to him. Regehr's game requires him to keep up with the opposition and he looks like he's slowing, foot-speed wise.
yes I'm wearing rose colored glasses to defend a guy I want traded... good call

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05-28-2010, 04:46 PM
  #72
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Good point. And I think it's a combination of both. This team really should look at trading him while he has value. Perhaps that why they brought in Staios? To fill the leadership gap the Flames would lose if they traded him? Just thinking out loud.
Hamhuis would have been nice to aqcuire when everyone was talking about that. I would feel much more comfortable with dropping Regher for some picks/prospects then, rather than having Staios as the new guy. Don't get me wrong I like Steve, but he's close to the end...maybe even closer with the balls out way he plays.

I think when acquiring defensmen now mangement has to look at how they box out players positionally rather than the big impact plays. Regher unfortuantly is the latter.

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05-29-2010, 12:07 AM
  #73
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What were you watching? Reg still looked every bit as bad down the stretch when the team needed him to be the old Reg. The guy was a plus player twice during the final month of the season...

Not good enough...
Understand the stats before you argue them...

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05-29-2010, 12:13 AM
  #74
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Understand the stats before you argue them...
Great argument. The stats are there for everyone to see...

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05-29-2010, 04:25 PM
  #75
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The 2 Jokinen trades were very similar in value. If anything, Calgary got the better deal.

except that by the time Calgary got him, Jokinen has already shown sign of declining....

of course an average fan may not see this but one would hope Sutter and the Flames professional scouting staff are better than an average HFboard fan.

btw, there was no proof that any other team were interested in giving Phoenix that much for Jokinen....it's just a guess/excuse by Flames fans.

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