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The state of your club is not as bad as people think

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Old
06-15-2010, 09:59 AM
  #1
MJ65
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The state of your club is not as bad as people think

I have seen so many proposals on these forums and am certainly going to see more of rumors, speculations, and proposals from different fans
I don’t think if our team is in such a bad state, and this team is certainly in a position to compete with addition of a player or two, here is my reasoning why I think that this team can reach the playoffs next season
Goaltending – We do not have an elite goal tender but its adequate both Giguere and Gus are quiet capable of sharing the load
Defense – I am pretty sure you are going to see the same (minus Kabs) that we had at the end of the season, I am not going to say it’s the best but it is above average as far as I am concerned
Forwards – This is the area where we need help
Bozak, Kul, Kessel – they are all top 6 forwards (Kessel can be used as a 1st line forward)
I am not a big fan of Grabs but we do have upcoming winger in Stalberg (I am sure he is going to be better this year with full time duty with the club), Nazim Kadri can also chip in but again you cannot really depend on him – the reason being pressure from all the sides, so we do have at least 4 forwards that can play top 6
I keep on reading all these proposals and keep on thinking is it really so complicated?
Every one of you would agree that Kabs will atleast bring us a top 6 forward – and then our GM can sign a forward or 2 via free agency (so is it really so complicated)
There are so many other options like trade Grabs for a 3rd line forward and we can also get some help (via different trades) - Chicago is an option

Your comments are welcome

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06-16-2010, 01:36 AM
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MJ65
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wow - no comments as yet?

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06-16-2010, 01:40 AM
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robdicks
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we have a thread like this EVERY day... whats the point....

ok we understand that Some Leafs fans think this team is good... EVERY YEAR some Leafs fans think this team is good....

its Missouri for me.. you gotta show me

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06-16-2010, 01:50 AM
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Leaf fans are naturally pessimistic. It has to do with the scars of yesteryear and the continual passion and hope for a winning team, that somehow seems to fall short.

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06-16-2010, 02:07 AM
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robdicks
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Leaf fans are naturally pessimistic. It has to do with the scars of yesteryear and the continual passion and hope for a winning team, that somehow seems to fall short.
we are a bitter bunch...

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06-16-2010, 02:15 AM
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seanlinden
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The problem is that we said the same thing last year....heck, a blueline consisting of pairs of Kaberle-Komisarek, White-Beauchemin, and Schenn-Finger SHOULD have been among the league's better groups.... but of course Ron Wilson doesn't believe in pairs and we needed to trade about half of our forward talent to get Dion Phaneuf. A tandem of a healthy Toskala-Gustavsson should have been to shoulder the load...but they didn't. Infact, the only thing that was supposed to go wrong (minimal talent up front) didn't.

A defence of Phaneuf-Beauchemin, Kaberle-Komisarek, Schenn-Gunnarsson should be the league's best, but they problably won't be anywhere close to that. Giggy-Gustavsson should provide solid to middle-of-the-road goaltending, with the potential to have either of them shine, but they problably won't, one will get injured and one will crack under teh pressure. A team that has Mikhail Grabovski as it's 2nd best offensive player should struggle immensely to score goals, but knowing the way things work out, we'll lead the league in goals and have Bozak, Kulemin & Stalberg all elevate their games, but be near the bottom of the league because we can't keep them out of our net.

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06-16-2010, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
The problem is that we said the same thing last year....heck, a blueline consisting of pairs of Kaberle-Komisarek, White-Beauchemin, and Schenn-Finger SHOULD have been among the league's better groups.... but of course Ron Wilson doesn't believe in pairs and we needed to trade about half of our forward talent to get Dion Phaneuf. A tandem of a healthy Toskala-Gustavsson should have been to shoulder the load...but they didn't. Infact, the only thing that was supposed to go wrong (minimal talent up front) didn't.

A defence of Phaneuf-Beauchemin, Kaberle-Komisarek, Schenn-Gunnarsson should be the league's best, but they problably won't be anywhere close to that. Giggy-Gustavsson should provide solid to middle-of-the-road goaltending, with the potential to have either of them shine, but they problably won't, one will get injured and one will crack under teh pressure. A team that has Mikhail Grabovski as it's 2nd best offensive player should struggle immensely to score goals, but knowing the way things work out, we'll lead the league in goals and have Bozak, Kulemin & Stalberg all elevate their games, but be near the bottom of the league because we can't keep them out of our net.
This is accurate. I can recall the excitement of last preseason which was quickly dashed once the real season started. I love the Leafs, am die hard and passionate (Leafs tattoo and all). I can see lots of positives in changes made, I can read positives like Kessel working out this summer, but I want to see some results and playoff hockey. I want to see the cup back in Toronto too, but making the playoffs this next season is a start.

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06-16-2010, 06:32 AM
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AlMo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ65 View Post
I have seen so many proposals on these forums and am certainly going to see more of rumors, speculations, and proposals from different fans
I don’t think if our team is in such a bad state, and this team is certainly in a position to compete with addition of a player or two, here is my reasoning why I think that this team can reach the playoffs next season
Goaltending – We do not have an elite goal tender but its adequate both Giguere and Gus are quiet capable of sharing the load
Defense – I am pretty sure you are going to see the same (minus Kabs) that we had at the end of the season, I am not going to say it’s the best but it is above average as far as I am concerned
Forwards – This is the area where we need help
Bozak, Kul, Kessel – they are all top 6 forwards (Kessel can be used as a 1st line forward)
I am not a big fan of Grabs but we do have upcoming winger in Stalberg (I am sure he is going to be better this year with full time duty with the club), Nazim Kadri can also chip in but again you cannot really depend on him – the reason being pressure from all the sides, so we do have at least 4 forwards that can play top 6
I keep on reading all these proposals and keep on thinking is it really so complicated?
Every one of you would agree that Kabs will atleast bring us a top 6 forward – and then our GM can sign a forward or 2 via free agency (so is it really so complicated)
There are so many other options like trade Grabs for a 3rd line forward and we can also get some help (via different trades) - Chicago is an option

Your comments are welcome
Thanks for enlightening us on what we didn't know

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06-16-2010, 06:36 AM
  #9
AlMo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
The problem is that we said the same thing last year....heck, a blueline consisting of pairs of Kaberle-Komisarek, White-Beauchemin, and Schenn-Finger SHOULD have been among the league's better groups.... but of course Ron Wilson doesn't believe in pairs and we needed to trade about half of our forward talent to get Dion Phaneuf. A tandem of a healthy Toskala-Gustavsson should have been to shoulder the load...but they didn't. Infact, the only thing that was supposed to go wrong (minimal talent up front) didn't.

A defence of Phaneuf-Beauchemin, Kaberle-Komisarek, Schenn-Gunnarsson should be the league's best, but they problably won't be anywhere close to that. Giggy-Gustavsson should provide solid to middle-of-the-road goaltending, with the potential to have either of them shine, but they problably won't, one will get injured and one will crack under teh pressure. A team that has Mikhail Grabovski as it's 2nd best offensive player should struggle immensely to score goals, but knowing the way things work out, we'll lead the league in goals and have Bozak, Kulemin & Stalberg all elevate their games, but be near the bottom of the league because we can't keep them out of our net.
That defense should have been one of the better groups in the league? You are fool to even think that.

Beauchemin, Komi, Kaberle, Finger, White and Schenn would strike fear in the hearts of no one. All have flaws and all make mistake consistently. This years group looks a little better but thats only if Komi can fully recover and Schenn and Gunnar progress. Kaberle is likely on his way out so I wouldn't include him just yet.

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06-16-2010, 07:36 AM
  #10
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
That defense should have been one of the better groups in the league? You are fool to even think that.

Beauchemin, Komi, Kaberle, Finger, White and Schenn would strike fear in the hearts of no one. All have flaws and all make mistake consistently. This years group looks a little better but thats only if Komi can fully recover and Schenn and Gunnar progress. Kaberle is likely on his way out so I wouldn't include him just yet.
Hindsight is 20/20.... you look at how poorly they played this year and you can't imagine them being any good, but the personnel on it were fine.....think back 1 year ago today....

We had Tomas Kaberle, Pavel Kubina, Ian White, Luke Schenn, Jeff Finger, Mike Van Ryn, Jonas Frogren, and Anton Stralman.....

Kaberle & Kubina - Both were struggling a bit but had finally turned the corner as Kubina picked up his game with McCabe gone and when Kaberle returned from injury. Komisarek had missed a bit of tiem in Montreal the previous year with injury, but him & Markov made for an excellent top pair. Kaberle & Markov are two very similar defenceman in both style and calibre.

Luke Schenn & Jeff Finger - You had an 18 year old defenceman who played very well in his own end playing top 4 minutes. Logic would have said that he would have elevated his game for 09-10. Instead, it regressed. He was playing a lot with Jeff Finger, who despite his contract, was actually a very solid #4 defenceman. He did everything Schenn did in the defensive zone, and also moved the puck efficiently and effectively. He should've been the same this year, he wasn't.

Ian White & Mike Van Ryn - White had significantly elevated his game and at one point was playing close to 30/night consistently. Van Ryn was great in the games he played.

Stralman & Frogren - Both were very solid albiet one-dimensional and showed solid room to grow.

When you add Beauchemin, and replace Kubina with Komisarek, we should have had a top pair that was on par with Montreal's (Kaberle-Komisarek), which was a top pair on a good team. We also had 4 legitimate top 4 defenceman (and 1 borderline) beyond them in Beauchemin, Van Ryn, Schenn, White an sort-of Finger. But what happens? Komisarek, Kaberle, Beauchemin and Finger played like crap. Van Ryn never suits up. Schenn has a sophmore slump, Stralman was traded and Frogren waived, and White was the only guy playing to his potential.

What's to say the same crap won't happen this year? Hard work? Wilson promised that a year ago.

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06-16-2010, 08:21 AM
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I completely disagree with the sentiment that the Leafs goaltending will fall apart. In fact, I am expecting a resurgence in Giguere as this is his contract year. I am also expecting the next step of Jonas Gustavsson. I do believe that the strong play of last season will continue on through this season, especially if the Leafs can get another forward. The difference between this season and all of yesteryear, except perhaps 1998, is that this is a team that you expect to grow. They are young and will progress. This is what we have been waiting for for so long. A team on the grow. Will this team improve over last season, absolutely. Enough to get into the playoffs? I don't think so.

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06-16-2010, 08:39 AM
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I completely disagree with the sentiment that the Leafs goaltending will fall apart. In fact, I am expecting a resurgence in Giguere as this is his contract year. I am also expecting the next step of Jonas Gustavsson. I do believe that the strong play of last season will continue on through this season, especially if the Leafs can get another forward. The difference between this season and all of yesteryear, except perhaps 1998, is that this is a team that you expect to grow. They are young and will progress. This is what we have been waiting for for so long. A team on the grow. Will this team improve over last season, absolutely. Enough to get into the playoffs? I don't think so.
Toskala was the worst starting goaltender in the league.

Easy to verify go check out his stats SV% and GAA with the Leafs.

Komisarek wasn't very good and then was injured.
Beauchemin couldn't handle the pressure, and was a pinch machine.
Gunnarsson, one of the better defenders, was sent to the minors to start the season because they had one way contracts that had to be with the big club.
Schenn had a sophomore slump.
Kaberle became persona non grata.
Van Ryn knee problem was not corrected.
Exelby is a 7th. defender.
Finger is a 7th. defender.

To turn it around:

Giguere and Gustavsson have to be at least average.
Komisarek has to come back healthy and relaxed.
Beauchemin needs to have a shorter chain and fewer minutes.
Schenn has to play with more abandon.
Gunnarsson has to be in the line up, maybe even 2nd. pairing the entire season.
Phaneuf has to have his head on straight and take risks.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
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06-16-2010, 10:17 AM
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MJ65
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Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
Thanks for enlightening us on what we didn't know
Not sure why do you have to be so sarcastic?

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06-16-2010, 10:52 AM
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Shanty
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Originally Posted by MJ65 View Post
Not sure why do you have to be so sarcastic?
Because this is "Generic Positivity Thread #5642". Some of us just don't care anymore.

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06-16-2010, 10:57 AM
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It's funny...all I see from other fans is that Leaf fans are so optimistic and in a fantasy world. In fact, Howard Berger stated just that this morning on The Fan.

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06-16-2010, 04:14 PM
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Hero
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Our team is a great supporting cast, but with nothing to support.

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06-16-2010, 05:37 PM
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MJ65
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Because this is "Generic Positivity Thread #5642". Some of us just don't care anymore.
Then there is no need for you to comment - no one is forcing you

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06-16-2010, 05:48 PM
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seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Falon View Post
I completely disagree with the sentiment that the Leafs goaltending will fall apart. In fact, I am expecting a resurgence in Giguere as this is his contract year. I am also expecting the next step of Jonas Gustavsson. I do believe that the strong play of last season will continue on through this season, especially if the Leafs can get another forward. The difference between this season and all of yesteryear, except perhaps 1998, is that this is a team that you expect to grow. They are young and will progress. This is what we have been waiting for for so long. A team on the grow. Will this team improve over last season, absolutely. Enough to get into the playoffs? I don't think so.
Here's the problem....who didn't expect Toskala to be better now that he was fully healthy? What's to say that some unexpected issue won't jump up for Giggy. Gustavsson had an OK year in the NHL, whose to say he doesn't take the path of Mikhail Grabovski or Luke Schenn and have a sophmore slump?

This team with teh addition of a few decent forwards should be a playoff team, but the following things will need to happen..

-We'll need to get relatively solid goaltending out of Giggy-Gustavsson.
-Ron Wilson will have to be fired or decide to play our defence as pairs instead of a 5-man rotation
-Komisarek & Kaberle will have to have rebound years.
-Beauchemin & Phaneuf will have to play well together and cover for each other's occasional mistakes
-Gunnarsson & Schenn will have to continue to grow their games and not regress like Schenn did.
-Kessel has to increase his goal scoring without sacrificing the way he made his game a bit more complete this year.
-Grabo will have to recover from a sophmore slump.
-One of Bozak or Kadri will have to be able to put up numbers at the NHL level when games matter
-Stalberg will have to get bigger and learn how to protect teh puck.
-Kulemin will have to become more involved offensively
-The forwards that we do add have to produce
-Everyone will have to stay healthy

That's a lot of things that need to happen, very few of which happened last year.

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06-16-2010, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by iceblue View Post
This is accurate. I can recall the excitement of last preseason which was quickly dashed once the real season started. I love the Leafs, am die hard and passionate (Leafs tattoo and all). I can see lots of positives in changes made, I can read positives like Kessel working out this summer, but I want to see some results and playoff hockey. I want to see the cup back in Toronto too, but making the playoffs this next season is a start.
Two things happened last year:

1) The excitement of the preseason was largely due to the kids (Bozak, Stalberg, Hanson) and their speed and energy. They outplayed the vets but, once the regular season started, it was deja vu all over again. The kids were sent down, and it was Stajan, Blake, Ponikarovsky giving us the same old same old. The most uninspired group of players I've seen in 35+ years of being a Leaf fan.

2) Toskala couldn't stop a beach ball.

Fortunately, the carriers of "blue and white disease" have been shipped out, and Burke somehow converted that mess into Phaneuf, Giguere, Caputi, and Aulie.

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06-16-2010, 06:24 PM
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Drmckool
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every year i say "Playoffs this year" but i think this year it is a possibility, as the poster above me said, last year the leafs had some deathly ill players with "Blue & White Disease" that have been expunged from this organization. We'll see what Burke does in the off-season but if he can work a little magic to either get an alright draft pick, a good forward, or maybe even somehow outbid Anaheim for Bobby Ryan i will be inspired to believe in a post-season for Canada's team this season.

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06-17-2010, 03:10 PM
  #21
MJ65
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Originally Posted by Drmckool View Post
every year i say "Playoffs this year" but i think this year it is a possibility, as the poster above me said, last year the leafs had some deathly ill players with "Blue & White Disease" that have been expunged from this organization. We'll see what Burke does in the off-season but if he can work a little magic to either get an alright draft pick, a good forward, or maybe even somehow outbid Anaheim for Bobby Ryan i will be inspired to believe in a post-season for Canada's team this season.
Yes it is quiet possible - but we need to get better offensively and need atleast 2 top 6 and a 3rd line forward - atleast that's going to give us a chance to compete.

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