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Kulemin talks at standstill: Kulemin wants NHL contract.

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Old
05-30-2010, 05:00 PM
  #251
EazyB97
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Kul is still a work in progress but his numbers would be much better if he wasn't always the one pounding the boards on his line . Kul's the type of player that allows other's on his line to be more productive .

Burke had no trouble tossing stupid money at Grabo but he's going to hold the line with Kul . This doesn't make alot of sense .
You should stop the cycle of bad contracts, not continue it. Kulimen is a nice player right now, but 2-2.2 is the max he should get. He just doesn't play well enough at either end to deserve more. Look at the guys in a similar situation and consider how much they make. You can't pay him under hoping he becomes more, it's just too dangerous.

Kulemin has been in the league for two years and hasn't really elevated any of his linemates play. That Bozak/Kessel line did click well, but he couldn't continue that level of play once they were seperated. Bozak still scored well with the College line and Kessel had scored well earlier with Poni and Stajan too.

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05-30-2010, 05:30 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
Yeah, ignorance.
yeah ok, prove its not true then. Don't just throw words out there...

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05-30-2010, 06:49 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
You should stop the cycle of bad contracts, not continue it. Kulimen is a nice player right now, but 2-2.2 is the max he should get. He just doesn't play well enough at either end to deserve more. Look at the guys in a similar situation and consider how much they make. You can't pay him under hoping he becomes more, it's just too dangerous.

Kulemin has been in the league for two years and hasn't really elevated any of his linemates play. That Bozak/Kessel line did click well, but he couldn't continue that level of play once they were seperated. Bozak still scored well with the College line and Kessel had scored well earlier with Poni and Stajan too.
You should stop the cycle but if he bolts to Russia where does that leave us . He should probably get 4 to 4.5 over 2 but you also have to look at what contracts Burke has given out since he's been here . He's paid certain guys on potential and then he's paid strong money for second tier ufa's and also college ufa's . He's spent freely up until now and thats put him in a bit of a tight spot . The only contract which would be considered a very reasonable type of deal is Gusto's .

Kul didn't produce the few games at the end of the season when Bozak was moved but neither did Kessel . I'd rather overpay Kul than have him maybe bolt to Russia , whoever we try to sign to replace him if this happens would cost us just as much if not more than what it would have taken to sign Kul .

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05-30-2010, 07:51 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Burke had no problem giving Grabo 9mil over 3 but there seems to be a problem giving Kul the same type of money .

Kul busts his butt all over the ice and is worth more than his numbers show . If your going to pay guys just on there numbers , then your telling them that the rest of there play is worthless when contract time comes . If your just paying the guys with the better stats then everyone will start to play only one way hockey .
Grabovski's contract and the comments in this thread indicate to me that Kulemin should change his game and become a one dimensional player who is more interested in putting up points than winning games.

He should stay in deep longer and stay in the slot waiting for one timers. He should hit less and preserve his energy for trying to score.

Kessel can go dig the pucks out of the corners, and Bozak can handle the physical play.

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Old
05-30-2010, 08:22 PM
  #255
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in regards to the grabo comments, maybe burke realized that he made a mistake and doesn't want to repeat it

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05-30-2010, 09:17 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
You should stop the cycle but if he bolts to Russia where does that leave us . He should probably get 4 to 4.5 over 2 but you also have to look at what contracts Burke has given out since he's been here . He's paid certain guys on potential and then he's paid strong money for second tier ufa's and also college ufa's . He's spent freely up until now and thats put him in a bit of a tight spot . The only contract which would be considered a very reasonable type of deal is Gusto's .
It doesn't leave us in that bad of a spot. Kulemin's a good, but not great hockey player. We've had many of these players over the years and we will have many more. He may eventually become more, but he may not. Burke hasn't given out many overpaid contracts. Komisarek was rumoured to be offered more elsewhere, Beauchemin's a good deal at 3.8, Grabovski is really the only bad ones.

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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Kul didn't produce the few games at the end of the season when Bozak was moved but neither did Kessel . I'd rather overpay Kul than have him maybe bolt to Russia , whoever we try to sign to replace him if this happens would cost us just as much if not more than what it would have taken to sign Kul .
Kessel did produce with Stajan and Poni earlier and in Boston, so he isn't a concern. You can still replace Kulemin internally and spend your money elsewhere. With that 2-2.2 million you can get an older UFA who plays at a similar level.

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05-30-2010, 10:32 PM
  #257
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Anybody have stats on this? Because sure Kulemin produced with Bozak and Kessel, but he also played well with Grabovski. He even played quite a role in easily our best shutdown line of the season in...

Kulemin-Hanson-Sjostrom

I also really like the potential of a line like this...

Stalberg-Grabovski-Kulemin

Wilson has put these guys together a few times, and they haven't had too much success, but the potential is there. You've got Grabovski behind some very capable forecheckers and developing scorers, and all the speed in the world, along with Kulemin's physical play. Everybody on this line is capable of creating some serious space for the others.

So I don't think it can be said so confidently he doesn't have chemistry with anybody, and that's the allure of Kulemin, the sheer individual physical prowess of this guy that just allows him to walk into the offensive zone and create turnovers seemingly at will.

I think with special teams for this guy next year he'll dominate further. He's got the size and shot to cut in on the powerplay, and the physical play to absolutely dominate along the boards. I've never seen a player so dominant along the periphery.

This guy is fully capable of scoring 20-25 goals next year and playing a dominant 2-way game. I doubt there are many UFA this year who can do that. Can we count on Torres to do it? The guy won't cost less than Kulemin, and that's the point of this thread. He also isn't a budding young guy,. Actually Torres has regressed in his play quite a bit lately, so his value to us over time is limited.

The guy was actually quite a consistent scorer throughout the season. He started playing more or less consistently over 15 minutes a game in December, and within a month the Phaneuf/Giguere trade went down. In those 26 games games he put up 6 goals and 9 assists, right about the pace of the whole season, including quite a few game winning goals, mostly in overtime and the shootout.

I believe Kulemin, along with White, were our best players overall along the whole season. They always stood out from the rest of the team, in every game - especially in the early stretch when we were doing so badly. When Wilson said he was our most complete player I believe he means NOW. He was the only guy in that embarrassing melee of Stajan/Hagman/Stempniak/Blake, etc.. who could go into a corner and win and then carry the puck out in the offensive zone, and without the falling, the slipping, getting manhandled, etc..

Really, the only way we'll be able to replace a guy like this is through a return on Kaberle, and then we're just making up for what we lost, and no UFA can do what Kulemin does.

I believe Burke will be able to get all we need this offseason. The guy just inspires confidence at the moment.

Edit: Oh, and I guess I should post what I think this guy is worth. Anywhere between 1.75-2.25... always said it. Though if we were to overpay by 0.25 it'd be worth it I believe.


Last edited by Dutch Dreams: 05-30-2010 at 10:56 PM.
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Old
05-30-2010, 10:48 PM
  #258
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Kulemin type of player doesent come around everyday, if he wants 3 mil give him 2.75 for 3-4 years and expect him to even improve more than last season. I see him having breakout year personally next season, scoring in the range of 35 goals.

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05-30-2010, 10:53 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Kulemin type of player doesent come around everyday, if he wants 3 mil give him 2.75 for 3-4 years and expect him to even improve more than last season. I see him having breakout year personally next season, scoring in the range of 35 goals.
I'm not trying to bring down anything you're saying but 35 goals is a little unrealistic (I think) as last year there was a total of twenty four, 30+ goal scorers....

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05-30-2010, 10:55 PM
  #260
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3 mill long term would be great because when he has a breakout season his contract would be a steal (unless he pulls a grabovski)

more realistically it should be around the 2-2.5 2 year deal range

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05-30-2010, 11:06 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Leafs4Eva View Post
I'm not trying to bring down anything you're saying but 35 goals is a little unrealistic (I think) as last year there was a total of twenty four, 30+ goal scorers....
You even look at guys like Zach Parise. He got a 3.125 million dollar cap contract, for 4 years though, after a 30 goal, 30 assist season at 23, about where Kulemin is at right now, except he has more of a season like Parise's one before that, at 14 goals and 18 assists. No way this guy is worth 3 million...

Maybe the guy is looking at guys like Samuelsson/Burrows and benching Kulemin there when he talks about 30 goals.

Kulemin WILL score 20-25 goals next year, he is just that physicall dominant. He'll be able to get his sick shot off a lot next year.

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05-30-2010, 11:14 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Kulemin type of player doesent come around everyday, if he wants 3 mil give him 2.75 for 3-4 years and expect him to even improve more than last season. I see him having breakout year personally next season, scoring in the range of 35 goals.
wow are you gonna be disappointed. His career high 39 points suggests he won't be hitting 35 goals next year.

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05-30-2010, 11:18 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Kulemin type of player doesent come around everyday, if he wants 3 mil give him 2.75 for 3-4 years and expect him to even improve more than last season. I see him having breakout year personally next season, scoring in the range of 35 goals.
You think Kulemin will score 5 more goals than Kessel did THIS year? How?!

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05-30-2010, 11:22 PM
  #264
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Kulemin will score around 25 goals next year.
He does have a great shot, which is very underrated. Soon he'll start converting on the chances he gets. Right now, most of the goals he scores are "hustle" goals. But i definitely think his scoring will improve next year.

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05-30-2010, 11:50 PM
  #265
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Give him 3. JUST SIGN HIM!

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05-31-2010, 12:01 AM
  #266
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Give him 3. JUST SIGN HIM!
Agreed. There should be no debate here. He deserves 3 million. You pay just as much for what you WILL be getting as what you already have gotten. He is just scratching the surface of what he can do. If we lock him up long term at 3 million, in a few years time it will be one of the better contracts in the NHL.

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05-31-2010, 12:36 AM
  #267
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Agreed. There should be no debate here. He deserves 3 million. You pay just as much for what you WILL be getting as what you already have gotten. He is just scratching the surface of what he can do. If we lock him up long term at 3 million, in a few years time it will be one of the better contracts in the NHL.
Agreed. Plus, He's much more valuable than Beauch and Komi

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05-31-2010, 12:42 AM
  #268
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Agreed. Plus, He's much more valuable than Beauch and Komi
If he makes too much trouble, I think we just trade him, who knows as long as burkie can pull something like what he did to get Phaneuf I could care less. We just need to get something down and done.

If we sign him, man I hope he turns into that 40 goal scorer that i always hoped for

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05-31-2010, 12:46 AM
  #269
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5 years, at $3 million per year, do it Burke... It's a slight overpayment but we need a guy like Kulemin. He is a very versatile player. His style of play is a perfect compliment for a scoring line. He does hard work on the boards and makes space for Kessel. At the same time he's great defensively. I recall a Kulemin-Wallin-Sjostrom line being an awfully good checking third line right before Kuly got his promotion up to Bozak-Kessel.

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05-31-2010, 01:02 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by GalacticaActual View Post
5 years, at $3 million per year, do it Burke... It's a slight overpayment but we need a guy like Kulemin. He is a very versatile player. His style of play is a perfect compliment for a scoring line. He does hard work on the boards and makes space for Kessel. At the same time he's great defensively. I recall a Kulemin-Wallin-Sjostrom line being an awfully good checking third line right before Kuly got his promotion up to Bozak-Kessel.
I'd do this but what I fear is he wants 2 years, $3 million per season and this I'd have reservations about.

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05-31-2010, 01:55 AM
  #271
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People need to stop using Grabovski's contract to justify giving Kuli 3m.
How is 1 bad contract a good reason to hand out another bad contract?

Hell, he is better than Jeff Finger why not give him 3.5M.
I thought the Monster was better than Giggure after the trade, does that mean Burke should have given him 6M too?

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05-31-2010, 01:57 AM
  #272
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Kulemin will score around 25 goals next year.
He does have a great shot, which is very underrated. Soon he'll start converting on the chances he gets. Right now, most of the goals he scores are "hustle" goals. But i definitely think his scoring will improve next year.
Somebody had to say it. Very quick release and a real hard, accurate shot that goes right through goaltenders. He is more of a pure shooter though, as he scores most of his goals with the puck in his possession. Seems to struggle at converting chances off of passes, rebounds, though at least he's able to get into position for them.

He developed a certain patience with the puck that he never had earlier though, allowing him to score several times as goaltenders overplayed him or he just manouvered into a better position to shoot, and score.

This guy scores 25 goals and 25 assists for around 50 points next year, while being a force on special teams and a huge part of our forecheck.

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05-31-2010, 08:14 AM
  #273
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I think Kuli's offensive numbers next year are going to depend greatly on who he's playing with... If Burke makes some massive deals this summer and Kuli ends up on the 3rd line, then his numbers will be similar (maybe a bit higher) than they were this year... If Burke doesn't do much at all, and Kuli's on the 1st line with Kessel and Bozak, then I'd venture to say Kuli puts up something around 23G, 30A... If he ends up on a line with Kadri, and Kadri plays well, then his numbers would be similar but slightly less than on the top line... However, if Burke doesn't do much and he ends up playing with Kadri and Kadri doesn't play well, or Kadri's in the minors and he's on a 2nd line with Grabovski, then I'd say his numbers still won't be much better than this year...

Unforunately, several years back the power of RFAs negotiations seemed to have switched to the player and agent from the GM... Where in the past players used to get a new contract based on what they have done so far, now young players tend to get contracts based on what they MIGHT do in the future... This to me is a horrible system, but unfortunately, it's the one that we now have to work within... I would venture to guess that Kuli either signs something like a 5 year $2.7 million contract, or 3 years at $2.3 million, or he ends up asking for too much and Burke moves him in a deal for a top 6 forward this summer... I want Kuli back, but I don't like the idea of giving him huge dollars for potential that he hasn't lived up to yet... it's not like he's a rookie... he's had two full seasons in the NHL with moderate improvement from the first to the second... despite a short hot streak at the end of this season, what can his agent point to that supports giving him $3 million per year? I just can't see Burke vastly overpaying for him...

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05-31-2010, 08:30 AM
  #274
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he's had two full seasons in the NHL with moderate improvement from the first to the second... despite a short hot streak at the end of this season, what can his agent point to that supports giving him $3 million per year?
The agent doesn't really have to point at anything. The plan on Kuli's side is probably to take this thing through arbitration and look for offer sheets.

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05-31-2010, 08:34 AM
  #275
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I think Kuli's offensive numbers next year are going to depend greatly on who he's playing with... If Burke makes some massive deals this summer and Kuli ends up on the 3rd line, then his numbers will be similar (maybe a bit higher) than they were this year... If Burke doesn't do much at all, and Kuli's on the 1st line with Kessel and Bozak, then I'd venture to say Kuli puts up something around 23G, 30A... If he ends up on a line with Kadri, and Kadri plays well, then his numbers would be similar but slightly less than on the top line... However, if Burke doesn't do much and he ends up playing with Kadri and Kadri doesn't play well, or Kadri's in the minors and he's on a 2nd line with Grabovski, then I'd say his numbers still won't be much better than this year...

Unforunately, several years back the power of RFAs negotiations seemed to have switched to the player and agent from the GM... Where in the past players used to get a new contract based on what they have done so far, now young players tend to get contracts based on what they MIGHT do in the future... This to me is a horrible system, but unfortunately, it's the one that we now have to work within...

I would venture to guess that Kuli either signs something like a 5 year $2.7 million contract, or 3 years at $2.3 million, or he ends up asking for too much and Burke moves him in a deal for a top 6 forward this summer...

I want Kuli back, but I don't like the idea of giving him huge dollars for potential that he hasn't lived up to yet... it's not like he's a rookie... he's had two full seasons in the NHL with moderate improvement from the first to the second... despite a short hot streak at the end of this season, what can his agent point to that supports giving him $3 million per year? I just can't see Burke vastly overpaying for him...
Maybe Kulemin wants a short term deal and Burke wants to lock him up for a low cap hit.

It would be in Kulemin's best interest to get as short as possible, to leave his options open and doesn't get locked into a bad situation with the coaching in Toronto.

Teams are liking longer term contracts for players they think are on the rise, to keep the cap hit down.

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