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Kulemin talks at standstill: Kulemin wants NHL contract.

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Old
05-31-2010, 08:00 PM
  #351
TheLeastOfTheBunch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Kulemin isn't near the complete player you guys make him out to be. He's a good backchecker who tries on defense. He's not a fantastic defensive player, his coverage isn't always the best and he can miss assignments. He's strong on his skates, but he wasn't a physical force for the Leafs last year.
Well, he did lead all Leafs forwards amongst hits (2nd overall amongst all Leafs), blocked shots, and takeaways (1st overall amongst all Leafs). Doesn't say a whole lot considering the Leafs iced a very young team (and one of the worst teams in the league), nonetheless, he is very solid defensively.

Like I said, I am not too worried. Burke has a month to sign him, and in the end, I think the two sides will agree to a contract extension.

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05-31-2010, 08:08 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Well, he did lead all Leafs forwards amongst hits (2nd overall amongst all Leafs), blocked shots, and takeaways (1st overall amongst all Leafs). Doesn't say a whole lot considering the Leafs iced a very young team (and one of the worst teams in the league), nonetheless, he is very solid defensively.

Like I said, I am not too worried. Burke has a month to sign him, and in the end, I think the two sides will agree to a contract extension.
You're right, he did all of those things on a terrible defensive team playing 78 games while most other Leafs appeared in 70 or less. He drops in BS, TkA and hits when you do it per game rather than overall. A good, but not great, defensive player on a bad defensive team.

I do agree on the last bit, I'm not too worried about this situation, it's still very early in the process.

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05-31-2010, 08:12 PM
  #353
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Ultimately, all these guys like Kulemin/Stalberg/Gunnarsson are nice to have, but they're looking like support players. It's definitely good to have them, but they aren't irreplacable assets to be cried over.

If things aren't working out with the Leafs, Burke has a fairly attractive trade asset on his hands. Kulemin showed enough promise last season to have garnered some interest from other teams. Burke has remarked on several occasions that he knows there are other teams out there who have RFAs they're having trouble signing...of course Burke is no exception to this.

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05-31-2010, 08:20 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
We have Caputi and Stalberg to replace him, neither are fantastic, but they should put-up similar numbers given his ice-time. There's also the trade and UFA route as well. You're looking at losing what he could potentially bring, not what he has brought the past two years.
All Caputi showed last year was that he was a hard working kid who was in over his head at this level . I really like VS's overall skill package but he and Caputi arn't even certain to be on the team next year .

I'm not saying Kul's a star but he isn't asking for star type money either . The problem is when you start handing out stupid contracts like Grabo's , it's hard to sell the next player on a smaller deal .

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05-31-2010, 08:32 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
All Caputi showed last year was that he was a hard working kid who was in over his head at this level . I really like VS's overall skill package but he and Caputi arn't even certain to be on the team next year .

I'm not saying Kul's a star but he isn't asking for star type money either . The problem is when you start handing out stupid contracts like Grabo's , it's hard to sell the next player on a smaller deal .
Not that hard when he doesn't have much to show his worth. Given good minutes for most of the season and he wasn't able to put up good offensive numbers. He's a better player than those two, but the drop-off isn't as big as some believe and we have other ways to strengthen our team. At the end of the day, Kulemin has been a mid 30 point player who works hard and gets top 6 minutes on the Leafs. When Kulemin's agent brings up Grabo, Burke can go on the numbers, then bring-up other players around the league who signed and are closer to Kulemin's level. Dubinsky type players.

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05-31-2010, 09:00 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Not that hard when he doesn't have much to show his worth. Given good minutes for most of the season and he wasn't able to put up good offensive numbers. He's a better player than those two, but the drop-off isn't as big as some believe and we have other ways to strengthen our team. At the end of the day, Kulemin has been a mid 30 point player who works hard and gets top 6 minutes on the Leafs. When Kulemin's agent brings up Grabo, Burke can go on the numbers, then bring-up other players around the league who signed and are closer to Kulemin's level. Dubinsky type players.
The drop off between Kull and Caputi and V.S is large based on last year . VS has all the tools and the size to be a good NHL'er but he hasn't showed it yet . Caputi on the other hand hasn't showed much at all , he was mostly invisible last year and he still has alot to work on before he even earns a regular spot on the leafs .

Burke can talk about stats when comparing Kul to Grabo and Kul's agent can talk about the rest of there games when comparing the two . The facts are your not going to get a similar UFA for less than 3 mil and you don't have much to trade to aquire a simarlar player who is also only making 2 mil .

I don't think Kul will go to Russia , but if he does Burke will look like a fool . There's no way to justify Kul going to the KHL based on a contract issue when Burke gave a 3 mil a year contract to Grabo .

In the end i think ULF is right and he will get signed to a one year deal .

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Old
05-31-2010, 09:07 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
The drop off between Kull and Caputi and V.S is large based on last year . VS has all the tools and the size to be a good NHL'er but he hasn't showed it yet . Caputi on the other hand hasn't showed much at all , he was mostly invisible last year and he still has alot to work on before he even earns a regular spot on the leafs .

Burke can talk about stats when comparing Kul to Grabo and Kul's agent can talk about the rest of there games when comparing the two . The facts are your not going to get a similar UFA for less than 3 mil and you don't have much to trade to aquire a simarlar player who is also only making 2 mil .

I don't think Kul will go to Russia , but if he does Burke will look like a fool . There's no way to justify Kul going to the KHL based on a contract issue when Burke gave a 3 mil a year contract to Grabo .

In the end i think ULF is right and he will get signed to a one year deal .
36 point players who don't excel defensively don't get 3 million in UFA. Grabovski is one player and Burke can point to Dubinsky, Burrows, Steen, etc (when they re-signed).. and many others who fill a similar role to Kulemin. He's a much closer player to those guys than he Grabovski.

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05-31-2010, 09:18 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
36 point players who don't excel defensively don't get 3 million in UFA. Grabovski is one player and Burke can point to Dubinsky, Burrows, Steen, etc (when they re-signed).. and many others who fill a similar role to Kulemin. He's a much closer player to those guys than he Grabovski.
Burke can point to alot of players and he would be right , however Kul has bigger upside than alot of those players that you have mentioned . Grabo and Kul may play different games but to me Kul's a hell of alot more valuable than Grabo .

Also add in the fact that he can go to the KHL and that gives him more leverage than your typical RFA player.

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Old
05-31-2010, 09:22 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Burke can point to alot of players and he would be right , however Kul has bigger upside than alot of those players that you have mentioned . Grabo and Kul may play different games but to me Kul's a hell of alot more valuable than Grabo .

Also add in the fact that he can go to the KHL and that gives him more leverage than your typical RFA player.
It's only leverage if he is willing to use it, Burke still has options to fill his spot via other avenues. Burrows scored 35 goals this year while playing in all situations, I'm not sure Kulemin has that potential. Steen and Dubinsky both had good seasons as well, they played at a level many are hoping Kulemin achieves.

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05-31-2010, 09:55 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
The drop off between Kull and Caputi and V.S is large based on last year . VS has all the tools and the size to be a good NHL'er but he hasn't showed it yet . Caputi on the other hand hasn't showed much at all , he was mostly invisible last year and he still has alot to work on before he even earns a regular spot on the leafs .

Burke can talk about stats when comparing Kul to Grabo and Kul's agent can talk about the rest of there games when comparing the two . The facts are your not going to get a similar UFA for less than 3 mil and you don't have much to trade to aquire a simarlar player who is also only making 2 mil .

I don't think Kul will go to Russia , but if he does Burke will look like a fool . There's no way to justify Kul going to the KHL based on a contract issue when Burke gave a 3 mil a year contract to Grabo .

In the end i think ULF is right and he will get signed to a one year deal .
I disagree with the bolded line and think that Kulemin will definitely want, at least 2 years and he will then become a UFA.

In spite of comparing player to player, to determine his value under the cap, this all comes down to what he will be offered by a KHL team and if exceeds 3 million, I'm sure Burke will back out of any negotiations and like many here have said maybe even less like 2.5 Million will be too much?

Kulemin if re-signed will likely be a second line winger and has chemistry with Grabovski, that may count for something, I'm sure Burke is trying to fill the first line wing to play with Bozak and Kessel, if Kadri comes to play and it's been reported he has put on about 10-15 lbs he may be that winger switching from center to wing.

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Old
06-01-2010, 06:54 AM
  #361
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I think people should stop harping on the Grabo deal. He was a rookie and managed a 20 goal, 50 point season. Signing him for 2.9 a year wasn't that bad a decision on Burke's part. The deal only looks bad now because last season was less than stellar for Grabo. Kulemin, while a more complete player, only managed 36 points, and that is not worth as much as a 50 point rookie year, even with his superior defensive play. If he signs in the ballpark of 2.5 a year, that will be fair.

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06-01-2010, 09:50 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Phaneuf is Phaneuf View Post
I think people should stop harping on the Grabo deal. He was a rookie and managed a 20 goal, 50 point season. Signing him for 2.9 a year wasn't that bad a decision on Burke's part. The deal only looks bad now because last season was less than stellar for Grabo. Kulemin, while a more complete player, only managed 36 points, and that is not worth as much as a 50 point rookie year, even with his superior defensive play. If he signs in the ballpark of 2.5 a year, that will be fair.
Grabo was an older rookie who didn't make those around him better. He was a one-man show who simply isn't good enough to do that. It's not a horrid deal, but he's overpaid by 500k-$1 million/year

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06-01-2010, 10:28 AM
  #363
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Despite the relative merits of the Grabo deal, BB seems to be calling Kulemin's bluff on the KHL.

It would be fair to say that with no KHL option, we wouldn't be talking about Kuli's next contract being over 2mil per, so 3 mil is based on the KHL. That's a 1 mil overpayment, which is a lot.

My hope is that BB wins the staredown and gets Kuli at 2 ish. That free's 1 m per to use on someone else. That's his job. Go get em Brian!

Of course, after Kuli's signed, it's 'go get em Kuli!'

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06-01-2010, 10:47 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Grabo was an older rookie who didn't make those around him better. He was a one-man show who simply isn't good enough to do that. It's not a horrid deal, but he's overpaid by 500k-$1 million/year
Which is a 25-50% overpayment, a huge number.

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06-01-2010, 11:25 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
Despite the relative merits of the Grabo deal, BB seems to be calling Kulemin's bluff on the KHL.

It would be fair to say that with no KHL option, we wouldn't be talking about Kuli's next contract being over 2mil per, so 3 mil is based on the KHL. That's a 1 mil overpayment, which is a lot.

My hope is that BB wins the staredown and gets Kuli at 2 ish. That free's 1 m per to use on someone else. That's his job. Go get em Brian!

Of course, after Kuli's signed, it's 'go get em Kuli!'
The thing is, I don't recall that ever being said by Kulemin (the opposite actually) or his agent. I do recall Watters and MacLean chirping about that being a possibiltity, but they don't carry any weight IMO. I'd be shocked if Kulemin doesn't re-sign, posturing and waiting it out for the best possible deal is something even Burke did as an agent many years ago. Nik will be back.

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06-01-2010, 12:00 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
The thing is, I don't recall that ever being said by Kulemin (the opposite actually) or his agent. I do recall Watters and MacLean chirping about that being a possibiltity, but they don't carry any weight IMO. I'd be shocked if Kulemin doesn't re-sign, posturing and waiting it out for the best possible deal is something even Burke did as an agent many years ago. Nik will be back.
the last guy who tried to pull this move didnt fair so well.....

d. moore says hi


(although i suppose in the end it worked out for him)

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06-01-2010, 02:41 PM
  #367
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the last guy who tried to pull this move didnt fair so well.....

d. moore says hi


(although i suppose in the end it worked out for him)
Not really, made 1 million last year pro-rated, think the Leafs offered a 3 year 4.5 million contract.. He will get a better contract this year but not 4.5 million over 3 years.

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06-01-2010, 06:09 PM
  #368
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Another example of a average or slightly below average player whose value is inflated because he plays for the Leafs.

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06-01-2010, 06:16 PM
  #369
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I'm actually worried. Not because I'm afraid Kulemin will bolt to the KHL due to his own wants. But I'm afraid his agent is screwing up the signing process. Kulemin wants to stay, but his agent might be asking for too much and convincing Kulemin that this is the right value.

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06-01-2010, 06:55 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
You're right, he did all of those things on a terrible defensive team playing 78 games while most other Leafs appeared in 70 or less. He drops in BS, TkA and hits when you do it per game rather than overall. A good, but not great, defensive player on a bad defensive team.

I do agree on the last bit, I'm not too worried about this situation, it's still very early in the process.
PlayerGamesHitsProjected HitsBlocksProjected BlocksMiss ShotsProjected Missed ShotsGive awaysProjected GiveawaysTake awaysProjected Take Aways
Alexei Ponikarovsky611141534155739826351723
Nikolai Kulemin781361434143616424255255
Fredrik Sjostrom19311341878730313313
Viktor Stalberg406413118375210719392347
Christian Hanson314612210262361381129
Colton Orr82119119262627277799
John Mitchell60871194055435921292027
Tyler Bozak37521151533143110222658
Lee Stempniak6271942026648540534357
Luca Caputi192086417114714835
Wayne Primeau5958812940131814191318
Matt Stajan5552782943345126392943
Jamal Mayers4435652241213910191324
Jason Blake5636532232507320294870
Rickard Wallin6035483345212914193142
Niklas Hagman5526392030629216241421
Jamie Lundmark15738211527633844
Mikhail Grabovski5926362738476540563042
Phil Kessel701315131510211946543035

Yes, we don't really know if someone can play an entire season throwing hits as many youngsters will work hard for several games or half a season. I'd speculate the number of hits would decrease as the season wore on, but maybe I'm wrong.

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06-01-2010, 06:59 PM
  #371
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the last guy who tried to pull this move didnt fair so well.....

d. moore says hi


(although i suppose in the end it worked out for him)
Kulemin asks what's it like to be 29 and UFA?

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06-02-2010, 01:57 PM
  #372
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Interesting RT @GenadiB: According to some sources in Russia, Toronto forward Nikolai Kulemin could leave to KHL next season

This guy is pretty good on all things Russian, even most European players.

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06-02-2010, 02:00 PM
  #373
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http://twitter.com/dchesnokov

Interesting RT @GenadiB: According to some sources in Russia, Toronto forward Nikolai Kulemin could leave to KHL next season

This guy is pretty good on all things Russian, even most European players.
what a shame it would be to lose him to the KHL.

The kid will be worth 3 mill and more in no time at all...lock him in long term at that.

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06-02-2010, 02:00 PM
  #374
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Interesting RT @GenadiB: According to some sources in Russia, Toronto forward Nikolai Kulemin could leave to KHL next season

This guy is pretty good on all things Russian, even most European players.
Crosby could leave for the KHL next season too.

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06-02-2010, 02:03 PM
  #375
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Crosby could leave for the KHL next season too.
The only difference is a reputable source isn't reporting the rumour that he is.

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