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Kaberle on his way out??

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Old
06-01-2010, 04:52 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
At this point....it's more believeable that Burke is trying to create an imaginary bidding war.
Absolutely; GM's never talk to one another. Burke asked about the availablility of Phaneuf earlier in the season, to which Sutter said no. It wasn't until Burke was told by another GM that Phaneuf was on the table that Brian made the call and consumated the deal later in the season. FWIW, I highly doubt a first (to the dislike of many) is on his priority list if trading Kaberle. He wants to win now, and has said countless times he needs to address the forwards. Devils makes tons of sense, if anything, having one year of Kaberle (if Lou decides not to re-sign him, and signs Kovalchuk or other UFA;s) allows for Kaberle's cap space to disapear after next season to sign Parise while giving extra time to young D like Correntte (sp?) to develop.

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06-01-2010, 04:52 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Icewind Dale View Post
Kaberle is worth whatever someone pays for him. He's proven to be a consistent offensive threat. A third-liner with second line potential and some question marks might be what you'd offer, but as someone that has watched the Leafs for about 17 years, I think I know a little more about the Leafs than someone who doesn't watch them at all. I can tell you quite confidently that we don't need more bottom six players when we can easily find those on the free market.

If you really believe that a player of Kaberle's calibre is worth garbage, then that's your problem. It's your credibility, not mine. But then, I think we both know you're looking to piss off Leaf fans rather than discuss the topic with some attempt at objectivity.
Exactly. And if they don't want to pay for Kaberle they won't. The buyers dictate the price or you can keep Kaberle and remain the same place next year. Seriously, with how much you overrate players on your team, you'd think they would be decent. But the standings reflect reality, not your biased opinion. You think its impossible to catch the leafs on TV when they are on HNIC every saturday? Other NHL fans watch the leafs on TV and knows what your players are actually worth.

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06-01-2010, 04:55 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ColtonOrr View Post
Not sure what you are laughing at. I said a good top 6 forward and a mid to late 1st round pick which would be 15-30th overall like many others are saying.
Just because a bunch of yahoo's jump off a bridge doesn't mean it is a wise thing to do.

Take off the goggles. IF Burke could get a top 6 forward and a 1st round pick Kaberle would be long gone. It doesn't matter what you think he is worth the market is dictating otherwise.
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A proven player like Kaberle who will most likely put up 60 points on any team that is marginally better then Toronto was is worth that easily.
Glad you can see the future. Want to give me some lucky numbers for Friday?

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You along with many other people around here seem to throw Kaberle under the bus.
Far from throwing him under the bus. I would be happy if he stayed here and we moved Gunner instead. I just want this done. Either move him or re-sign him and move someone else.
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Please keep your smilies for your ridiculious posts.
Personal insults, so lame.

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06-01-2010, 04:56 PM
  #104
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Why would there be major offers out there for Kaberle right now when someone can get Gonchar as a UFA?

I think Burke was legitimately approached by a team but is trying to drum up some interest in Kaberle. Why Columbus would deal anything of value for Kaberle when they're probably one of the frontrunners for Gonchar is beyond me.

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06-01-2010, 04:57 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
I say he ends up in tampa or dallas.
To your sensible guess, I add my own; Anahiem. I think these are the top three. There are things that must develop, first, though, before Anahiem becomes a front runner. I do agree with you that the two existing offers probably came from Yzerman and Nieuwendyck.

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06-01-2010, 04:57 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by ColtonOrr View Post
You should hang out with charliolemieux and talk about distorted views on hockey.
With the goggles you have on evertyting looks ditorted. Try removing them and take a look at reality.

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06-01-2010, 05:02 PM
  #107
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Just because its on HNIC doesn't mean people will watch. If its not Leafs hockey....I usually don't watch it unless its the playoffs....which is why I never give my opinion on non-Leaf players cuz I really don't have much of an idea how they play unless they play US. I think people who say we overrate Kaberle should also think about how they underrate Kaberle. There are probably only one or two people who truly know the value of Kabs (I'm sure its not a Leaf fan). However, the hate on the Leafs makes people underrate, sometimes even severely underrate Kaberle. There will always be those insanely homer-type Leaf fans who deserve the hate, but don't put that hate on our players just because they have the Leaf logo on their chest.

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06-01-2010, 05:04 PM
  #108
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I can see a possible deal with New Jersey or Columbus. Today Burke again reiterated that he's not working hard to get back in the 1st round.

He's more interested in rounding out the Leafs top 6 forward position right away. And he specifically mentioned getting a scoring winger with size.

On the market there aren't a ton of players like that.

I think the Columbus rumor is bogus. As much as I want, I doubt Burke moves Kaberle to acquire a 4th overall pick and wait for that player to be ready in a couple of years. He wants back in the playoffs as soon as possible.

To me New Jersey makes a lot of sense. If it is true that Langenbrunner is upset with the team, I think he can be included along with Clarkson + Corrente or Vasyunov, and the Leafs can offer Kaberle + Mitchell.

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06-01-2010, 05:04 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Why would there be major offers out there for Kaberle right now when someone can get Gonchar as a UFA?

I think Burke was legitimately approached by a team but is trying to drum up some interest in Kaberle. Why Columbus would deal anything of value for Kaberle when they're probably one of the frontrunners for Gonchar is beyond me.
May I assume that Gonchar's older and more injury prone? It also helps pad his stats when he plays on Pittsburgh. I'm not saying Kaberle is anything better than Gonchar....but I think age has to do with everything.

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06-01-2010, 05:09 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by GreenLeafs View Post
Just because its on HNIC doesn't mean people will watch. If its not Leafs hockey....I usually don't watch it unless its the playoffs....which is why I never give my opinion on non-Leaf players cuz I really don't have much of an idea how they play unless they play US. I think people who say we overrate Kaberle should also think about how they underrate Kaberle. There are probably only one or two people who truly know the value of Kabs (I'm sure its not a Leaf fan). However, the hate on the Leafs makes people underrate, sometimes even severely underrate Kaberle. There will always be those insanely homer-type Leaf fans who deserve the hate, but don't put that hate on our players just because they have the Leaf logo on their chest.
So its hate to believe Kaberle is worth Clarkson+nick palmieri?

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06-01-2010, 05:09 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Pure View Post
Exactly. And if they don't want to pay for Kaberle they won't. The buyers dictate the price or you can keep Kaberle and remain the same place next year. Seriously, with how much you overrate players on your team, you'd think they would be decent. But the standings reflect reality, not your biased opinion. You think its impossible to catch the leafs on TV when they are on HNIC every saturday? Other NHL fans watch the leafs on TV and knows what your players are actually worth.
If you're going to quote me, you should probably quote the entire post instead of deleting the rest of that sentence. Must be easy to refute something when you remove half the sentence. You have a weak argument. Know why? Because you can't stay on topic, and have to resort to comments about Kulemin and the standings. Back to the topic, the Kaberle situation is a seller's market, not a buyer's market. He is the sought-after commodity, afterall. And GM's will pay what they feel he is worth in relation to Burke's perceived value. I can tell you right now that Burke values him more than a handful of scrubs. If that's what others will offer, they won't get him. Simple as that. Bank on it.

Who have I overrated? You're suggesting that calling Kaberle an offensive threat that averages 50 points a season, and is worth more than third-liners/meh picks is overrating him? Fair enough.

As for people watching the Leafs. Well, I call BS on that. I read a lot of posts throughout these boards from people who claim to watch a ton of Leaf games. Between work, play, girlfriends or whatever, I find it difficult to believe that so many people tune into the weekly games of a team they despise. Sorry, but the logic isn't there. I don't spend my time watching the Canucks or Habs every Saturday. Why? Because I have better things to do with my time.

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06-01-2010, 05:10 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Pure View Post
So its hate to believe Kaberle is worth Clarkson+nick palmieri?
No, just ignorance.

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06-01-2010, 05:10 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
With the goggles you have on evertyting looks ditorted. Try removing them and take a look at reality.
My guess is edmonton is one of the teams with the following offer

Souray/Gagner and 2011 1st for Kaberle and Schenn.

Edmonton gets a much needed defensive prospect with schenn which is why they give up the 1st round pick . the draft next year doesn't look all that deep so this is why edmonton does this. They also get the expiring contract of kaberle who they may or may not resign when his term is up depending on salary constraints.. while toronto gets a 1st pick back for next year which should be a top 10 pick and a top six forward and a defenceman if healthy that can make a difference.

Thoughts

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06-01-2010, 05:11 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by ColtonOrr View Post
Very good and honest post. Burke and which ever team Kaberle is moved to will also want more going each way in my opinion, it will be a multiplayer/pick/prospect trade going both ways.

Kaberle is worth a very good top 6 forward and a mid to late first round pick alone.

As Toronto adds to that formula the quality of the player or the pick goes up from there. Possibly both depending on what Toronto adds to Kaberle.

I disagree. Depending on the team, I don't think that one year of Kaberle is worth a good young top 6 forward (let's say a guy like Wolski) and a 1st round DP. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, as there isn't a ton of recent precedent on this type of deal.

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06-01-2010, 05:13 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Why would there be major offers out there for Kaberle right now when someone can get Gonchar as a UFA?

I think Burke was legitimately approached by a team but is trying to drum up some interest in Kaberle. Why Columbus would deal anything of value for Kaberle when they're probably one of the frontrunners for Gonchar is beyond me.
Last I saw Gonchar was handing out free passes and not to the movies.....

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06-01-2010, 05:17 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by pats101 View Post
My guess is edmonton is one of the teams with the following offer

Souray/Gagner and 2011 1st for Kaberle and Schenn.

Edmonton gets a much needed defensive prospect with schenn which is why they give up the 1st round pick . the draft next year doesn't look all that deep so this is why edmonton does this. They also get the expiring contract of kaberle who they may or may not resign when his term is up depending on salary constraints.. while toronto gets a 1st pick back for next year which should be a top 10 pick and a top six forward and a defenceman if healthy that can make a difference.

Thoughts
Dealing Schenn makes no sense for the Leafs.

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06-01-2010, 05:23 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by The Slave View Post
I can see a possible deal with New Jersey or Columbus. Today Burke again reiterated that he's not working hard to get back in the 1st round.

He's more interested in rounding out the Leafs top 6 forward position right away. And he specifically mentioned getting a scoring winger with size.

On the market there aren't a ton of players like that.

I think the Columbus rumor is bogus. As much as I want, I doubt Burke moves Kaberle to acquire a 4th overall pick and wait for that player to be ready in a couple of years. He wants back in the playoffs as soon as possible.

To me New Jersey makes a lot of sense. If it is true that Langenbrunner is upset with the team, I think he can be included along with Clarkson + Corrente or Vasyunov, and the Leafs can offer Kaberle + Mitchell.
If we gut our whole right side we're going to need at least one RW back. I also think you'd be better off with Eckford then Corrente.

You have a plethora of physical defenseman and Eckford is still that but can move the puck beautifully and has a great first pass. He has a rare mix of size and skill.

Lou likes to really develop his defenseman into their mid 20's that's why he hasn't seen much NHL action yet.

I also believe Langenbrunner would automatically become your leading point getter.

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06-01-2010, 05:24 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by ATG View Post
Last I saw Gonchar was handing out free passes and not to the movies.....
The guy had one bad game that's been beat to death and explained over and over again, even from his mouth. Get over it.

He still out scored Kaberle playing in 20 less games and plays the PK while being one of the best PP QBs in the league.

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06-01-2010, 05:24 PM
  #119
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If you're going to quote me, you should probably quote the entire post instead of deleting the rest of that sentence. Must be easy to refute something when you remove half the sentence.
I quoted your entire post, you are the one who edited it. Look at the poster below your post, he quoted the exact same post. (looks like the kid deleted his post).

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You have a weak argument. Know why? Because you can't stay on topic, and have to resort to comments about Kulemin and the standings. Back to the topic, the Kaberle situation is a seller's market, not a buyer's market. He is the sought-after commodity, afterall. And GM's will pay what they feel he is worth in relation to Burke's perceived value. I can tell you right now that Burke values him more than a handful of scrubs. If that's what others will offer, they won't get him. Simple as that. Bank on it.
Its not a seller's market. Its a buyer's market based on the leafs situation. If they don't move Kaberle's salary from the back end, they would not have the resources to fix their forwards. If they don't trade Kaberle this off-season, his NTC kicks back in. If they don't trade him before the other teams fix their own situations in free agency, Kaberle's value will sink again. Hes a commodity, but no where near as sought-after as you think.

But if you believe every word that comes out of Burke's mouth, thats fine.

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Who have I overrated? You're suggesting that calling Kaberle an offensive threat that averages 50 points a season, and is worth more than third-liners/meh picks is overrating him? Fair enough.
I'm sticking by that proposal, if its an offer from the Devils. Clarkson + palmieri

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As for people watching the Leafs. Well, I call BS on that. I read a lot of posts throughout these boards from people who claim to watch a ton of Leaf games. Between work, play, girlfriends or whatever, I find it difficult to believe that so many people tune into the weekly games of a team they despise. Sorry, but the logic isn't there. I don't spend my time watching the Canucks or Habs every Saturday. Why? Because I have better things to do with my time.
HNIC is one of the most watched shows in Canada, and its not only leaf fans who watch. So yes, its not as if no one watches the leafs. You don't need to follow the team religiously to make a judgement on them. And I ask you, if you don't watch any other teams, why would do you think your rating of guys like Clarkson+Palmieri is so accurate, and that hes not worth Kaberle?

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06-01-2010, 05:26 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by pats101 View Post
My guess is edmonton is one of the teams with the following offer

Souray/Gagner and 2011 1st for Kaberle and Schenn.

Edmonton gets a much needed defensive prospect with schenn which is why they give up the 1st round pick . the draft next year doesn't look all that deep so this is why edmonton does this. They also get the expiring contract of kaberle who they may or may not resign when his term is up depending on salary constraints.. while toronto gets a 1st pick back for next year which should be a top 10 pick and a top six forward and a defenceman if healthy that can make a difference.

Thoughts
I would go Penner for Kabs, but KAberle wants to stay in the East. Even though he has no control over where he goes anymore, I could see Burke keeping him the East, because that increases the likelyhood of him resigning and it increases the potential value.

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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I disagree. Depending on the team, I don't think that one year of Kaberle is worth a good young top 6 forward (let's say a guy like Wolski) and a 1st round DP. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, as there isn't a ton of recent precedent on this type of deal.
KEssel was worth Kaberle and 7th overall 2009, or 1st 2010, 1st 2011, 2nd 2010.

So basically Kabs + 1st = 1st + 1st + 2nd

That was with 2 years left on Kabs' great deal. His value has gone down with only one year left and his stated desire to stay in the East.

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Last I saw Gonchar was handing out free passes and not to the movies.....

"Right this way sir..."

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06-01-2010, 05:32 PM
  #121
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its not unreal to think Kaberle can fetch a good return. im sure there are GM's out there who would rather have Kaberle than any of those UFA's and are willing to pay for him (eg. Sutter for Jokinen), im not saying he's gonna fetch something huge, but its not an unreal thought. He is after all, a very good PMD, and on the right team who know what he can do

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06-01-2010, 05:42 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I disagree. Depending on the team, I don't think that one year of Kaberle is worth a good young top 6 forward (let's say a guy like Wolski) and a 1st round DP. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, as there isn't a ton of recent precedent on this type of deal.
To a team that needs a player like Kaberle it is worth it.

Thats the whole point of trading for him in the first place.

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06-01-2010, 05:45 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
With the goggles you have on evertyting looks ditorted. Try removing them and take a look at reality.
No goggles are proposing deals involving Bozak, Kaberle and Stalberg for a second line center at best in Staal.

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06-01-2010, 05:50 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Just because a bunch of yahoo's jump off a bridge doesn't mean it is a wise thing to do.

Take off the goggles. IF Burke could get a top 6 forward and a 1st round pick Kaberle would be long gone. It doesn't matter what you think he is worth the market is dictating otherwise.
Glad you can see the future. Want to give me some lucky numbers for Friday?

Far from throwing him under the bus. I would be happy if he stayed here and we moved Gunner instead. I just want this done. Either move him or re-sign him and move someone else.

Personal insults, so lame.
Burke will get a good top 6 forward and a decent first pick for Kaberle alone, that is market value for a puck moving dman who consistently puts up 50 plus points.

Placing Kaberle on a team that is marginally better then what Toronto has been and claiming he would put up 60 points is being realistic.

Again save your smilies for when you actually know what you are talking about.

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06-01-2010, 05:53 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
The guy had one bad game that's been beat to death and explained over and over again, even from his mouth. Get over it.

He still out scored Kaberle playing in 20 less games and plays the PK while being one of the best PP QBs in the league.
I wonder what a 32 year old Kaberle would put up with Crosby and Malkin on his team considering he put up 50 points on one of the leagues worst teams.

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