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Who Stays-Marleau or Nabokov?

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Old
06-02-2010, 01:10 PM
  #51
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gotta go with marleau. nabby's 5 years older, and though i think he's largely responsible for our pre-playoff success, looking at the fresh goalies on other teams this playoff season that performed above him while making a small fraction of his salary, it seems to me that scouting for cheaper talent in the net would make a lot more sense than getting rid of a player who (if nothing else) is consistently good enough to help us out a ton in getting to the playoffs most years.

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06-02-2010, 02:28 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Rickety Cricket View Post
This is assuming Marleau wants to stay. There is a chance he might just wanna move on.
Which could only be Doug Wilson's fault. The only way Marleau would leave this team is if he
A) doesn't get an offer he thinks is fair; or
B) felt he was mistreated (which is debatable)

Both of which, I think, can only be described as Doug's fault. I think Patty would have loved to extend his contact early at something like 7x5.5 or even better, if for no other reason than to not risk losing major dollars on his next contract by getting hurt before he can sign one. Not to mention I think it is quite clear Marleau wants to stay, but the chances are lower now than a few months ago.

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06-02-2010, 02:58 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
Which could only be Doug Wilson's fault. The only way Marleau would leave this team is if he
A) doesn't get an offer he thinks is fair; or
B) felt he was mistreated (which is debatable)

Both of which, I think, can only be described as Doug's fault. I think Patty would have loved to extend his contact early at something like 7x5.5 or even better, if for no other reason than to not risk losing major dollars on his next contract by getting hurt before he can sign one. Not to mention I think it is quite clear Marleau wants to stay, but the chances are lower now than a few months ago.

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06-02-2010, 03:20 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Mr.Bridge View Post
You don't think as free agency gets closer, players get more interested in seeing what is out there?

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06-02-2010, 05:50 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
You don't think as free agency gets closer, players get more interested in seeing what is out there?
With the money we get by letting Nabby, Marleau and Blake go, we could bring up a few prospects and have money to pick up a player who plays to win every game, Not someone who wants to win every other week.

Someone is going to give Marleau mad money and we won't be able to afford it anyway.

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06-02-2010, 06:03 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by shoot the puck View Post
With the money we get by letting Nabby, Marleau and Blake go, we could bring up a few prospects and have money to pick up a player who plays to win every game, Not someone who wants to win every other week.

.
I hope you're prepared to take a 'success hit' from the exits of those players. San Jose isn't exactly prospect deep and free agents don't fall over themselves to come here.

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Someone is going to give Marleau mad money and we won't be able to afford it anyway
That was said before he signed the last contract too.

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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
You don't think as free agency gets closer, players get more interested in seeing what is out there?
I think it is difficult if not impossible to know exactly what plans a player has when entering free agency (especially when mum has been the word from Team Marleau) and the chances being lower or higher is the purest of speculation, as you have nothing to base these conclusions on, only empathy.

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06-02-2010, 06:12 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
The choice is very easy: Marleau. He's much harder to replace.

Nabokov is not an elite goalie. I'm sorry. He's just a good goalie, with a great team in front of him. He's not going to win playoff games on his own. He's had three seasons and an Olympics to prove that he can't do that.
I agree and disagree. Nabokov's career numbers say that he is a good goalie, being about to function for 60+ games a season plus playoffs makes him elite.

In any case though, I'm more inclined to keep Marleau as he is a true gentleman player. Quiet leadership style and continues to prove his worth by putting up points when it matters most.

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06-02-2010, 06:14 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Mr.Bridge View Post

I think it is difficult if not impossible to know exactly what plans a player has when entering free agency (especially when mum has been the word from Team Marleau) and the chances being lower or higher is the purest of speculation, as you have nothing to base these conclusions on, only empathy.
More than empathy. Similar quotes to those of last off-season were uttered by the org. It resulted in player movement in the subsequent season.

I agree that money is not his only motivation. At points, some discount at least could have been had. He does have an agent, Baizley, who will not let his clients get taken over the coals on a contract. Discount possible, but not huge.

I really did not buy the DW quote on players wanting to come to SJ. Some players, but it is not a stampede nor are their motivations overwhelming. Blake had some interesting quotes about wanting to come to SJ but chose other offers when the rubber hit the road. Only when LA dropped the ball, did he actually come to SJ. In looking at teams where players "want" to go, it is not always to the benefit of teams to take them. Other places, just purely overpay, but they get a rep as "desireable" teams (eg. NY Rangers).

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06-02-2010, 06:24 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by shoot the puck View Post
With the money we get by letting Nabby, Marleau and Blake go, we could bring up a few prospects and have money to pick up a player who plays to win every game, Not someone who wants to win every other week.

Someone is going to give Marleau mad money and we won't be able to afford it anyway.
All the money in the world cannot get a replacement for Marleau's abilities. There's nobody on the market that can do what he does. There's nobody in the Sharks' organization that is anywhere near the same time zone that Marleau is in as a player.

I'm not sure who exactly you're putting that win every other week nonsense towards but none of the guys on the Sharks are that way in the slightest and it's only out of spite and sensationalism that that kind of crap is even uttered.

The Sharks can afford Marleau if they want, even at fair market value, and there is nobody on this team except for possibly Dan Boyle that I wouldn't move in order to keep his services.

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06-02-2010, 07:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
More than empathy. Similar quotes to those of last off-season were uttered by the org. It resulted in player movement in the subsequent season.

I agree that money is not his only motivation. At points, some discount at least could have been had. He does have an agent, Baizley, who will not let his clients get taken over the coals on a contract. Discount possible, but not huge.

I really did not buy the DW quote on players wanting to come to SJ. Some players, but it is not a stampede nor are their motivations overwhelming. Blake had some interesting quotes about wanting to come to SJ but chose other offers when the rubber hit the road. Only when LA dropped the ball, did he actually come to SJ. In looking at teams where players "want" to go, it is not always to the benefit of teams to take them. Other places, just purely overpay, but they get a rep as "desireable" teams (eg. NY Rangers).
This isn't math though. Mutterings do not necessarily equal movement and you know as well as I that there were mutterings before he signed the last contract in 2007. The Marleau family knows what they are doing and can answer about chances, but I was taking issue with the 'chances' being lower as pure speculation. The chances are the same as they were yesterday, and will be tomorrow (if no story is released): Marleau and maybe DW know.

My comment stated that SJ is not a place necessarily where players look to from the get go. It doesn't have the tradition or perceived market that O6 teams or big cities get. You can look at evidence of that of the free agent signings (or even perceived pursuits) over the years. No where would I suggest that it is the only reason, but I would conjecture that SJ falls as a 2 or 3 option for potential FAs. I'd believe a place like Nashville gets more of a look from some players than San Jose, as it reminds them of Canadian life (can't cite a source on this, going by Drew's numerous praisings of the town).Perhaps this trend has changed a little bit since Thornton got here (the only reason Heatley is in teal), but i maintain that I do not believe players 'fall over themselves' to wear teal.


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06-02-2010, 07:31 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
All the money in the world cannot get a replacement for Marleau's abilities. There's nobody on the market that can do what he does. There's nobody in the Sharks' organization that is anywhere near the same time zone that Marleau is in as a player.

I'm not sure who exactly you're putting that win every other week nonsense towards but none of the guys on the Sharks are that way in the slightest and it's only out of spite and sensationalism that that kind of crap is even uttered.

The Sharks can afford Marleau if they want, even at fair market value, and there is nobody on this team except for possibly Dan Boyle that I wouldn't move in order to keep his services.
I would love for the Sharks to go after st louis or Kovalchuk with Marleaus money. Look at what St louis has done on a bad team. Look at what Marleau's done on a very good team. How would Marleau do on a bad team. How would St louis do on a very good team.


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06-02-2010, 07:38 PM
  #62
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I would love for the Sharks to go after st louis or Kovalchuk with Marleaus money. Look at what St louis has done on a bad team. Look at what Marleau's done on a very good team.
I would argue with you here but you didn't say anything of merit. So St. Louis had some individual success on a bad team. The team is still bad with him. I look at what Marleau's done on a very good team and see that he's done great.

Are you trying to say you'd rather have those two than Marleau? Because this post doesn't exactly convey that properly.

Because you edited your post, here's the response to that...how is it relevant? St. Louis has been on good teams and Marleau's been on bad teams.

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06-02-2010, 08:36 PM
  #63
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I would argue with you here but you didn't say anything of merit. So St. Louis had some individual success on a bad team. The team is still bad with him. I look at what Marleau's done on a very good team and see that he's done great.

Are you trying to say you'd rather have those two than Marleau? Because this post doesn't exactly convey that properly.

Because you edited your post, here's the response to that...how is it relevant? St. Louis has been on good teams and Marleau's been on bad teams.
I feel like you're trying to bait me into something but I will say what others have also said. I would love for St Louis to be a shark.

Can you imagine
St. Louis thornton Heater

Bye bye Marleau
Bye bye Nabby

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06-02-2010, 08:37 PM
  #64
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Sadly I think either way we go we're pretty screwed. I don't trust our goalies even if we had lidstrom in front of them, and I don't trust seto to replace marleau any time soon.

Nabby's 40 wins are underrated on these boards. We'll be lucky to be .500 with greiss and some noname minor leaguer considering the crap D we've got in front of them.

I like our forward depth more than I like our goalie depth. Thornton can make most guys a ton better, heck look what he did to cheechoo, perhaps it is time for us to lose marleau. I don't think that's the way to go if we want to win the cup but it guarantees us playoffs.

keep Nabby: get to playoffs, but let softies in once playoffs start, plus he'll have even less goal support. Oh and he's getting old.

keep marleau: possibly miss playoffs w/o nabby, but if greiss or other randoms turn into heroes we can squeeze into 8th and get ourselves a cheap playoff hero.

I hate both options.

So Boyle/Blake/Murray/Vlasic are crap??? So, we won't make the playoffs if we have Greiss instead of Nabokov? Are you serious!?!? 4th in Goals For in the NHL (I think). First in the Confrence, 2nd in the league...but we wouldn't even make the playoffs if we had an OK goalie in net? OK, so why isn't Nabokov the frontrunner for the Hart Trophy and Vezina? Because surely if, a team that wouldn't make the playoffs, all of a sudden being first in the Conf., Second in the NHL because of one player, that player would totally win all of those trophies??? Nabokov didn't steal many games (I already know you're going to say something along the lines of "Well, you only started watching during the PO's, so how would you know, you stupid bandwagon idiot who spells his name wrong") but I remember him stealing 2. @ Detroit in an SO, @ Calgary in a 2-1 win. I understand he had a few games where he played well, and held us in, but not very often.

*Braces self for some stupid insult about how I'm a bandwagon fan.*

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06-02-2010, 08:45 PM
  #65
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*Braces self for some stupid insult about how I'm a bandwagon fan.*
You are since you joined this month....oh, wait...me too.

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06-02-2010, 08:45 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by shoot the puck View Post
I feel like you're trying to bait me into something but I will say what others have also said. I would love for St Louis to be a shark.

Can you imagine
St. Louis thornton Heater

Bye bye Marleau
Bye bye Nabby
I'm not trying to bait you into anything. I'm trying to make out whatever it was you were saying because it wasn't really all that clear. If you want Marleau gone, that's fine. If you want St. Louis or Kovalchuk instead. That's fine but don't ask irrelevant questions and try to use that as a way to say we should.

I can imagine Ovechkin-Crosby-Stamkos on a line but that doesn't mean it's going to happen or that it is even a plausible option. Martin St. Louis is not going to be traded. Ilya Kovalchuk is not going to sign in San Jose.

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06-02-2010, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by shoot the puck View Post
I feel like you're trying to bait me into something but I will say what others have also said. I would love for St Louis to be a shark.

Can you imagine
St. Louis thornton Heater

Bye bye Marleau
Bye bye Nabby
Right, but at what cost? Marleau costs cap space only, St. Louis will cost assets and cap space (and probably not cheap assets value-wise).

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06-02-2010, 08:54 PM
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Right, but at what cost? Marleau costs cap space only, St. Louis will cost assets and cap space (and probably not cheap assets value-wise).
And why would he accept a trade to San Jose anyway? Why would Steve Yzerman trade him? Stevie Y is going to try and put together the best team he can and I don't think moving St. Louis to a team of his choosing is going to be a great way to accomplish that.

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06-02-2010, 08:58 PM
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And why would he accept a trade to San Jose anyway? Why would Steve Yzerman trade him? Stevie Y is going to try and put together the best team he can and I don't think moving St. Louis to a team of his choosing is going to be a great way to accomplish that.
True, my post was assuming that he would become available.

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06-02-2010, 09:16 PM
  #70
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I say they both go. Scrap Nabby for Turco, and release Marleau to pay for setoguchi and Pavelski.

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06-02-2010, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by shoot the puck View Post
I feel like you're trying to bait me into something but I will say what others have also said. I would love for St Louis to be a shark.

Can you imagine
St. Louis thornton Heater

Bye bye Marleau
Bye bye Nabby
This isn't NHL '10. Defense and goaltending win championships. Did you not see how things suffered with a high dollar amount spent on a single line?


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Originally Posted by JPavs8Cluthcy View Post
So Boyle/Blake/Murray/Vlasic are crap??? So, we won't make the playoffs if we have Greiss instead of Nabokov? Are you serious!?!? 4th in Goals For in the NHL (I think). First in the Confrence, 2nd in the league...but we wouldn't even make the playoffs if we had an OK goalie in net? OK, so why isn't Nabokov the frontrunner for the Hart Trophy and Vezina? Because surely if, a team that wouldn't make the playoffs, all of a sudden being first in the Conf., Second in the NHL because of one player, that player would totally win all of those trophies??? Nabokov didn't steal many games (I already know you're going to say something along the lines of "Well, you only started watching during the PO's, so how would you know, you stupid bandwagon idiot who spells his name wrong") but I remember him stealing 2. @ Detroit in an SO, @ Calgary in a 2-1 win. I understand he had a few games where he played well, and held us in, but not very often.

*Braces self for some stupid insult about how I'm a bandwagon fan.*
Boyle
Blake
Murray
Vlasic
Huskins
Demers
Wallin
Joslin

Of those, Boyle, Demers, and Vlasic are the only guys with skating ability. The rest are relatively slow. Huskins and Murray made numerous fundamental errors in judgment resulting in goals against or penalties. Wallin was barely on the ice. Blake, while providing good leadership and strong play at times, showed his age more than anyone would have liked. All of the D on the ice at some point made contributions and mistakes, but that particular core is not strong enough to weather the storms that teams can bring.

Joslin may not be ready for primetime, he hasn't found a niche on the team yet. He's got a big body and a good shot, but positionally I don't think he's ready to keep up with the speed of the NHL.

Wallin, resigned or not, was slow. Winter molasses slow? No. Perhaps a midsummer slow. He's also a big body but was not the lay out warrior type that the Sharks needed for the post season.

Demers really provided a spark from the blue line during the post season, but made many mistakes and basic defensive errors during the regular season, enough to get him sent down in the first place.

Huskins is overpaid and under performs, mostly. It was pleasing not to hear his named much during the post season, but he made enough errors during the regular season to take over Ehrhoffs old nickname of Error.

Vlasic continued steady positionally sound play for the most part. Occasionally he would make pretty glaring gaffes, be it from a lapse in judgment or miscommunication with his partner.

Murray remains as the Sharks biggest and perhaps slowest D. He frequently goes for the big check, with 'hit-or-miss' results. He's strong on his skates, but I do not think he is agile enough to hang with the bigger guys with speed. Still has a good shot, still is a valuable member, but towards the end of the season, his lack of mobility/overuse really showed.

Blake is a known quantity. Good shot, big body, enjoys using stickwork, occasionally gets dinged for it. He can provide a crushing hit from time to time, is a shadow of what he once was, but is a leader who saved his best games for the playoffs. He still has a role on this team, but I do not think the finances will allow him to fill it.

Dan Boyle was a godsend for the Sharks. Smooth skating, fiery presence, he really provides spark on the back end. I think he tries to do too much and falls into a category similar to Murray where he is over used and thus cannot maintain a level of play.

By no means are these short blurbs to be taken as gospel, they're just observations. I have probably left attributes of the players out, but the bottom line is I don't see a D corps that is fast or hungry enough to really pressure opposing forwards. People may call that 'respecting the talent' or 'playing efficiently' but I see it as a lack of effort.


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Originally Posted by DROPxTHExGLOVES View Post
I say they both go. Scrap Nabby for Turco, and release Marleau to pay for setoguchi and Pavelski.

The prospect of that is so gross I may not have an appetite for dinner later. You do realise Dallas had Alex Auld in net rather than Turco for stretches of last season, right?

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06-02-2010, 09:29 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Mr.Bridge View Post
This isn't NHL '10. Defense and goaltending win championships. Did you not see how things suffered with a high dollar amount spent on a single line?




Boyle
Blake
Murray
Vlasic
Huskins
Demers
Wallin
Joslin

Of those, Boyle, Demers, and Vlasic are the only guys with skating ability. The rest are relatively slow. Huskins and Murray made numerous fundamental errors in judgment resulting in goals against or penalties. Wallin was barely on the ice. Blake, while providing good leadership and strong play at times, showed his age more than anyone would have liked. All of the D on the ice at some point made contributions and mistakes, but that particular core is not strong enough to weather the storms that teams can bring.

Joslin may not be ready for primetime, he hasn't found a niche on the team yet. He's got a big body and a good shot, but positionally I don't think he's ready to keep up with the speed of the NHL.

Wallin, resigned or not, was slow. Winter molasses slow? No. Perhaps a midsummer slow. He's also a big body but was not the lay out warrior type that the Sharks needed for the post season.

Demers really provided a spark from the blue line during the post season, but made many mistakes and basic defensive errors during the regular season, enough to get him sent down in the first place.

Huskins is overpaid and under performs, mostly. It was pleasing not to hear his named much during the post season, but he made enough errors during the regular season to take over Ehrhoffs old nickname of Error.

Vlasic continued steady positionally sound play for the most part. Occasionally he would make pretty glaring gaffes, be it from a lapse in judgment or miscommunication with his partner.

Murray remains as the Sharks biggest and perhaps slowest D. He frequently goes for the big check, with 'hit-or-miss' results. He's strong on his skates, but I do not think he is agile enough to hang with the bigger guys with speed. Still has a good shot, still is a valuable member, but towards the end of the season, his lack of mobility/overuse really showed.

Blake is a known quantity. Good shot, big body, enjoys using stickwork, occasionally gets dinged for it. He can provide a crushing hit from time to time, is a shadow of what he once was, but is a leader who saved his best games for the playoffs. He still has a role on this team, but I do not think the finances will allow him to fill it.

Dan Boyle was a godsend for the Sharks. Smooth skating, fiery presence, he really provides spark on the back end. I think he tries to do too much and falls into a category similar to Murray where he is over used and thus cannot maintain a level of play.

By no means are these short blurbs to be taken as gospel, they're just observations. I have probably left attributes of the players out, but the bottom line is I don't see a D corps that is fast or hungry enough to really pressure opposing forwards. People may call that 'respecting the talent' or 'playing efficiently' but I see it as a lack of effort.





The prospect of that is so gross I may not have an appetite for dinner later. You do realise Dallas had Alex Auld in net rather than Turco for stretches of last season, right?
It hurts me to have to say that, but I mean what I say. I've had enough of Nabby. I would take a consistently mediocre (Turco) goalie over him any day of the week. The way Nabby is so great/bad from game to game is a sore spot in out beloved hockey club, and it is obvious. I'd downgrade to Turco + a Physical Defender for sure. Marleau on the other hand... I don't want to see him go, but still... change is needed. The Sharks need to get tougher.

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06-02-2010, 09:31 PM
  #73
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It hurts me to have to say that, but I mean what I say. I've had enough of Nabby. I would take a consistently mediocre (Turco) goalie over him any day of the week. The way Nabby is so great/bad from game to game is a sore spot in out beloved hockey club, and it is obvious. I'd downgrade to Turco + a Physical Defender for sure. Marleau on the other hand... I don't want to see him go, but still... change is needed. The Sharks need to get tougher.
So you would have the Sharks compound what is probably a bad decision by making a confirmed worse decision for the sake of change? I do not think that line of thinking is going to keep you hired as GM.

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06-02-2010, 09:38 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by DROPxTHExGLOVES View Post
I say they both go. Scrap Nabby for Turco, and release Marleau to pay for setoguchi and Pavelski.
Turco's not going to be worth the money he's likely to command. He's not the big time goalie that he was a few years ago. There's a reason why the Stars traded for Lehtonen and signed him to an extension. He's likely looking for 5 mil and if we pay a goalie that, we're better off keeping Nabokov.

There's going to be plenty of money to go around to keep Marleau, Pavelski, and Setoguchi. And even if there wasn't, keeping either of them over Marleau is a step down. And by 'a step down', I mean a step off of a one story house to the ground. It's that steep of a drop in quality.

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06-02-2010, 09:38 PM
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Chaotic8
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Originally Posted by DROPxTHExGLOVES View Post
Scrap Nabby for Turco
Absolutely not. Firstly, it's become apparent that Turco has lost a step or two over the course of the last couple of seasons. Secondly, Turco made 5.4m last year and although he may be a UFA wanting to play for any team possible, I'm sure he'll expect somewhere in the same ballpark salary.

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