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Who Stays-Marleau or Nabokov?

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Old
06-08-2010, 02:33 AM
  #201
Kitten Mittons
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Well my feelings are seriously hurt...

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Old
06-08-2010, 02:34 AM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Couldn't agree more. If Patty's to be compared to anybody on the Sharks it's JT. Heatley was brought here last year and is not getting dealt NMC or not. I'm fine with that. If Marleau is a casualty of getting Heatley it wasn't because Heatley was expected to take Patty's role. it's more likely that DW has made his choice in Thornton or believe(s/ed) he could get a reasonable deal with Marleau.

Maybe I change my mind after one more season, but Heatley fulfilled my expectations until the PO's and I'll give him a pass on that one for now.
Marleau is not directly comparable to JT either. The comparison for the two of them is more like Zetterberg/Datsyuk. Different players, slightly different roles. It should never be one or the other.

Thanks to Baydrake's research we know that the decision was made before the end of the playoffs if the decision was made to cut him loose. Something I have suspected all along, much like Ehrhoff last year. In terms of DW, it would not surprise me if the decision was made last summer when Heatley was acquired and he accepted the fact that Patty wasn't going to waive his NTC. If there is fault in DW's analysis, it belongs in DW's lap and we won't know the upshot of that analysis until after next season plays out. From Patty's statements, I am sure Patty would have stayed should a reasonable extension have been offered during the year. We all need to wait for DW's spin to come out, but we should recall these details before accepting statements as gospel. You can put me in the camp of having serious reservations about DW's analysis of the roster for the last two seasons and his ability to address obvious shortcomings.

The ultimate judgment on DW will be black and white if traded/released Sharks beyond Stuart garner cup rings while those that remain have none.

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Old
06-08-2010, 02:39 AM
  #203
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Just caught up with Marleau house talk. Sad stuff. **** off, Lombardi.

I really hope it doesn't mean Nabby will get his money.

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Old
06-08-2010, 02:50 AM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Marleau is not directly comparable to JT either. The comparison for the two of them is more like Zetterberg/Datsyuk. Different players, slightly different roles. It should never be one or the other.

Thanks to Baydrake's research we know that the decision was made before the end of the playoffs if the decision was made to cut him loose. Something I have suspected all along, much like Ehrhoff last year. In terms of DW, it would not surprise me if the decision was made last summer when Heatley was acquired and he accepted the fact that Patty wasn't going to waive his NTC. If there is fault in DW's analysis, it belongs in DW's lap and we won't know the upshot of that analysis until after next season plays out. From Patty's statements, I am sure Patty would have stayed should a reasonable extension have been offered during the year. We all need to wait for DW's spin to come out, but we should recall these details before accepting statements as gospel. You can put me in the camp of having serious reservations about DW's analysis of the roster for the last two seasons and his ability to address obvious shortcomings.

The ultimate judgment on DW will be black and white if traded/released Sharks beyond Stuart garner cup rings while those that remain have none.
Well it would certainly reveal that his plan involves making the slowest team in the NHL. Maybe he played a lot of NES ice hockey and decided that having all fat guys was better than having skinny guys...

I like the idea from baydrakes friend that Patty just won't be able to afford it Heck, even at his big time salary that is a damn expensive house.

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Old
06-08-2010, 02:54 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Thanks to Baydrake's research we know that the decision was made before the end of the playoffs if the decision was made to cut him loose.
not necessarily the april date, but it wouldn't surprise me (just a hunch, no inside info). and yes, it definitely has been for sale at least dating back to about game 2 of the chicago series.

various real estate sites have "listed on" dates for that property of between 14 days and a year or so - that is, it was likely sitting on the market a while before the marleaus came along and made their offer (seems like late '09-early '10). however, even if we use the 14-day one (and that's the one i'm leaning toward for now) that's still during the chicago series...

the 60+ day number came from a site that also has the address listed as "off the market" under the wrong ZIP code, so it's possible it could have simply been that sometime in april the realtor caught the mistake, took that one down, and posted a "new" listing. after all, the property didn't close until mid may, so while the offer was very likely accepted by then, it still might have fallen through and maybe the listing would have been left up.

all i can really draw from it is that as recently as february when all the mortgage stuff would have been going on he was working under the assumption that he and/or his family would remain in the SJ area. for all we know he might have known years ago that this was coming but planned for the family to stick around norcal a la cheechoo and stuart. but yes, at some point between about early/mid feb and mid may the DW/marleau situation seems to have changed


Last edited by baydrake: 06-08-2010 at 03:29 AM.
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Old
06-08-2010, 03:51 AM
  #206
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****! i wanted to keep marleau

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Old
06-08-2010, 05:24 AM
  #207
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He's not gone until he's gone.

I'm in complete denial.

I think he wants to try a year on the streets just for the experience. That's what it takes for a stanley motha ****ing cup.

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Old
06-08-2010, 06:42 AM
  #208
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Is this really happening nabby is my favorite player, but I understand marleau's value to the team as a whole. bawww

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Old
06-08-2010, 07:26 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by nbbyfan20 View Post
Kovy had his chance to be on a superior team and he failed. Did he even score a single goal in the first round?
2 goals, 4 assists in 5 games.

Or as many points in 5 games as Marleau scored in his first 10 playoff games this year.

People can't seriously think Marleau is better than Kovy.

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Old
06-08-2010, 07:51 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
2 goals, 4 assists in 5 games.

Or as many points in 5 games as Marleau scored in his first 10 playoff games this year.

People can't seriously think Marleau is better than Kovy.
Maybe wilson has a secret plan for kovy, **** it.

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Old
06-08-2010, 08:27 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
2 goals, 4 assists in 5 games.

Or as many points in 5 games as Marleau scored in his first 10 playoff games this year.

People can't seriously think Marleau is better than Kovy.
3 of his 4 assists came on the power play. He had a power play goal and an empty netter. Kovalchuk is a one trick pony. Anyone who doesn't understand that by now is only watching box scores and highlight reels. Marleau is the better player at this point.

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06-08-2010, 08:36 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
3 of his 4 assists came on the power play. He had a power play goal and an empty netter. Kovalchuk is a one trick pony. Anyone who doesn't understand that by now is only watching box scores and highlight reels. Marleau is the better player at this point.
Marleau had 6 PP points and was a -3. Kovy was even.

Nice sweeping insult there, I can play too. Anyone that thinks Marleau is better just hates Russians, kittens and free money.

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06-08-2010, 02:09 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
Marleau had 6 PP points and was a -3. Kovy was even.

Nice sweeping insult there, I can play too. Anyone that thinks Marleau is better just hates Russians, kittens and free money.
lmao...Kovalchuk was even after a post-season of five games. When he's playing with Zajac and Parise, he's got literally no defensive responsibilities which is good for a player who has no semblance of defensive awareness or commitment to defense.

In contrast, Marleau was the player primarily responsible for the defensive aspect of the game with his line. He was the 3rd man high. He was responsible for coming back first to help his blue liners.

Just because you view it as a sweeping insult doesn't make it any less true. Kovalchuk is a goal-scoring machine that plays no defense and doesn't make his teammates any better. Marleau's no supreme playmaker either but he skates off the puck. He plays defense. He's got good awareness in all zones. He's not nearly the stick-handler and one-on-one player that Kovalchuk is but Kovy doesn't do anything else that helps teams win games. Marleau does.

Your +/- comparison is a flat out joke. A 5 game sample size for +/- is laughable at best and being even in a 5 game series you lost when you play with Parise and Zajac, both with very good defensive abilities, is showing a hilarious inability to bring any context to the discussion. Less than half of Marleau's production came from the power play. Two-thirds of Kovalchuk's came from the power play but again, it's five games so it's not really a big deal. The big deal is that in the team dynamic it's obvious that Marleau has proven his worth in helping win games where Kovalchuk has not.

Teams with the goal of winning games and winning the Stanley Cup should want versatile players with the trust that they can be relied on in all areas of the ice. Marleau is reliable now in any situation. Kovalchuk is only reliable on the power play and only reliable when he's carrying the puck. Past that, you can't trust him as far as you can throw him.

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Old
06-08-2010, 02:21 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
2 goals, 4 assists in 5 games.

Or as many points in 5 games as Marleau scored in his first 10 playoff games this year.

People can't seriously think Marleau is better than Kovy.


Finally, sense in this thread.

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Old
06-08-2010, 02:27 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by D Huang View Post


Finally, sense in this thread.
Or a failure to comprehend all the aspects of a hockey player.

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06-08-2010, 02:27 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by D Huang View Post


Finally, sense in this thread.
Well it depends on what your looking for. Kovalchuk brings elite offensive ability, more so than Marleau. However, Marleau is a great PKer and good in his zone. Kovalchuk isn't that great defensively. I don't think the increase in offensive ability would offset the drop off in defensive play. Teams need players who can be elite offensively and very good defensively. Marleau brings that, Kovalchuk doesn't.

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06-08-2010, 02:34 PM
  #217
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Marleau is our only true elite 2-way forward.

We certainly do not need to be trading any more defense for offense.

I'd take Marleau over Kovi without hesitation.

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Old
06-08-2010, 03:10 PM
  #218
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Could Kovy and Heatley even be on the same team anymore? I'm just curious if there a bad feelings either way that would make that a bad idea.

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06-08-2010, 03:14 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Hold the Pickles View Post
Could Kovy and Heatley even be on the same team anymore? I'm just curious if there a bad feelings either way that would make that a bad idea.
Kovy and Heatley are still good friends. There's no animosity between the two. Never has been. Kovy understood why Heatley had to get out of Atlanta.

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06-08-2010, 03:17 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Kovalchuk is a goal-scoring machine that plays no defense and doesn't make his teammates any better. .
Hossa had his best years with him. Savard had his best year with him. Kozlov had his best year with him. Not his fault he has never had a good goalie and the best d-man would have been a #4 or #5 on San Jose.

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06-08-2010, 03:25 PM
  #221
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Kovy and Heatley are still good friends. There's no animosity between the two. Never has been. Kovy understood why Heatley had to get out of Atlanta.
sweet, thx.

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Old
06-08-2010, 03:34 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
Hossa had his best years with him. Savard had his best year with him. Kozlov had his best year with him. Not his fault he has never had a good goalie and the best d-man would have been a #4 or #5 on San Jose.
If we get him will we for sure have a good goalie? Will we have defense?

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Old
06-08-2010, 03:39 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by baydrake View Post
thankfully it's not much effort. i stumbled across it to begin with and it was a matter of a phone call and two online searches. 5 mins or so?

my breath is as bated as anyone else's to see what happens. after all, there are any number of explanations for the observations, but i certainly know which outcome i'm expecting a bit more than the others now...

EDIT: that friend: "Maybe it means he's taking a pay cut and he can't afford that huge house anymore."
What if the wife is preggers and they need a bigger better place?

Also, I'm not sure how much I read into a millionaire selling his house. There are so many possibilities that it just doesn't make sense to assume he's leaving. Especially since his wife is from here.


Last edited by Lebanezer: 06-08-2010 at 03:45 PM.
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Old
06-08-2010, 03:43 PM
  #224
Rickety Cricket
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I'm gonna go to Patty's house and throw pebbles at his window and when he looks over I'll hold a boombox over my head playing Air Supply.

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06-08-2010, 03:49 PM
  #225
Pinkfloyd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
Hossa had his best years with him. Savard had his best year with him. Kozlov had his best year with him. Not his fault he has never had a good goalie and the best d-man would have been a #4 or #5 on San Jose.
Irrelevant to my point. A lot of players have padded their totals by playing with great offensive talent. That doesn't mean that Kovalchuk actually makes them better players. Kovy is just so damn good with the puck that he can create goals on his own.

And the second part to your post was just proven to be false this year. He had Martin Brodeur and the Devils defensive system which is still a damn good one. None of the games was he ever a real threat. He put points up on the board well in a couple games but like Dany Heatley, wasn't the goal scoring threat that you'd generally see out of him during the season. He was invisible at even strength and was only a legitimate threat on the ice when he was on the point for the power play.

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