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Red Wings Cap Tracker: 2010-11 & 2011-12

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Old
07-31-2010, 11:38 AM
  #26
Harnessed in Slums
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snailderby View Post
I think everybody already knows this, but I just wanted to recap the current cap/roster situation assuming that Ken Holland signs Modano, Abdelkader, and Helm.

FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)
Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m)
Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Mike Modano ($1.200m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Darren Helm ($0.750m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.750m)
Drew Miller ($0.650m) / Kris Draper ($1.583m) / Mattias Ritola ($0.516m)

DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)
Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
Derek Meech ($0.500m)

GOALTENDERS
Chris Osgood ($1.416m) /Jimmy Howard ($0.716m)

CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $50,000

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000
CAP PAYROLL: $59,092,045
BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $307,955


Notes
Abdelkader currently makes $850,000. Helm currently makes $599,444. I penciled in the $1 million and $750,000 figures just as a rough estimate, as well as Modano's $1.2 million figure.

As you can see, this puts us one man over the 23-roster limit, but there seems to be enough cap space to keep them all. Of course, if Holland wants an 8th defenseman, that changes things a bit.
Nice. I am a little concerned about the third pairing of Ericsson and Kindl but I do want to see them get some ice time and see how they develop. If they really struggle you can always split up your top 4 and let both Lids and Stu pair up with one of the younger d-men to help steady their play and hopefully that brings along some confidence and furthers their development.

The 15th forward could be sent to GR or waived. If Meech can't beat out E or Kindl for the 6th spot I have to imagine he either gets traded or waived and lost for nothing. So when one of those scenarios happens the Wings have ~$800k in cap space and can trade for a 3rd pairing, PKing physical d-man if necessary.

My big concern with this scenario would be the PK. Lids and Stu will get heavy minutes. Who else plays solid PK minutes? Ericsson and Kronwall were 3rd and 4th in ice time with Lils close behind both of them. Ericsson will hopefully continue to improve as he wasn't so great on the PK last year but it was his rookie season. I imagine Kindl will get some time short-handed. So probably something like this:

Stuart - 3.5 mins/game
Lids - 3 mins/game
Big E - 2 mins/game
Kronner - 2 mins/game
Kindl - 1.5 mins/game
Rafi - less than 1 min/game

Obviously this all gets blown apart if Brendan Smith somehow makes the team. That definitely means Meech is gone and in order to fit him on the roster the team might also need to jettison the 15th forward as well.

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07-31-2010, 11:52 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
I think its pretty clear what they hope to do. Sign Modano to be the 3rd line center and play on the 2nd PP unit for $1.25 million. Lock up Helm and Abs for long term deals (3 years?) around or a little under a $1 million cap hit. Then, trade Meech for picks, try to send Ritola down to GR and sign a UFA defenseman (Lilja?) for the $1 million that those moves cleared up. I also could see them re-signing Maltby to a 2-way contract and storing him in GR until the playoffs.

That gives us 14 forwards in Detroit and another 2 players in GR (Maltby, Ritola) who they can count on to fill in. And, it gives us 7 defenseman in Detroit and another vet in GR (Janik) who they can count on to fill in when injuries hit. That would give us 4 capable backup forwards and 2 capable backup defeseman if/when injuries hit and it keeps our better prospects playing big minutes in GR. We will also have money left over for call ups.
Yeah that definitely makes sense. Another d-man would help to improve the rotation of d-men on the PK and cut down on Lids' time short handed. It would probably put them right up against the cap but I actually prefer signing a d-man as an UFA rather than trading although you might be able to get a better quality guy via trade.

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Old
07-31-2010, 12:32 PM
  #28
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Would it be possible to trade quantity for quality? For example, shipping someone like Ritola and Miller for a better bottom six forward? Kind of like a Lapierre (just an example).

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07-31-2010, 01:11 PM
  #29
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IF we sign Modano. Ritola gets waived and most likely clears. I think Meech is eventually traded and we either use Janik as 7th D or claim some1 on waivers or sign 1 of these veteran d-man who r still available in camp. There is also a chance Miller is traded although unlikely

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07-31-2010, 01:14 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franzening Frank View Post
Would it be possible to trade quantity for quality? For example, shipping someone like Ritola and Miller for a better bottom six forward? Kind of like a Lapierre (just an example).
I was thinking more like packaging 2 or 3 players and get one or two nice picks (2nd round or 3rd round picks).

But assuming Modano, Helm Abdelkader sign, I say:

- Trade Miller, Meech and one of Draper/Ritola/Eaves
- Get a proper 6th defenseman or call-up a decent 7th defenseman (Kolosov or Janik)

That should be fine IMO.

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07-31-2010, 01:39 PM
  #31
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Picks would be nice too. It could help in the eventuality that we need something at the trade deadline.

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08-01-2010, 12:10 AM
  #32
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If Ritola gets waived I would not be shocked at all if he gets claimed. The recent cast offs have had good luck on other teams. His salary is low and he's NHL ready. It's a very low risk waiver pickup for any team.

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08-01-2010, 06:02 AM
  #33
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If Ritola is put through waivers, then that is really disgusting. What has he done for him not to get a fair shot? Give him at least one full year before thinking of moving him either back to GR to rot or to another team. In my previous post I said trade 1 of Draper/Ritola/Eaves, but tbh I don't think any of those will/should go.

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08-01-2010, 06:31 AM
  #34
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I think people are just overrating Ritola's abilities. He doesn't have any strenghts is his game and he should have shown SOMETHING even at AHL before coming waiver-exempt. It now just pure gamble will he ever be a NHL player or not.

In most of the cases, a player with any strengths in his game, won't ever be any kind of useful NHL player.

Even though he would be valuable some other team, it does not anyhow turn our organization to one way or another. We will have players to replace him now, and, in the future. He isn't any kind of missing piece of anything.

He should really impress at the training camp to get a spot, or he is gone. It's do or die for him right now.

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08-01-2010, 09:21 AM
  #35
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There is nothing to rate IMO. I am not taking the AHL into consideration. That is just a development path for players to get used to the North American aspects of the game. He has had enough time to develop and deserves a shot. Yes, training camp is an ideal way of seeing where he fits, but that should not be his only shot.

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08-01-2010, 09:35 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
I think people are just overrating Ritola's abilities. He doesn't have any strenghts is his game and he should have shown SOMETHING even at AHL before coming waiver-exempt. It now just pure gamble will he ever be a NHL player or not.
he no weaknesses either. and his strengths? well, being cheap for 3 years is a strength in cap world. if he's able to be equal to the other 4th liners, i'd simply keep him because of his contract. and especially if you want to load your team with 3 scoring lines, you need those cheap fillers at the bottom.

i liked ritola for what he did in GR and sometimes even more for what he not did. reliable guy with good enough skills to keep the puck and do no damage. and as a junior he wasn't much behind the top of his class in skills. who knows what he could do with better linemates. he will get a long look at camp and he deserves it.

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08-01-2010, 09:56 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
I think people are just overrating Ritola's abilities. He doesn't have any strenghts is his game and he should have shown SOMETHING even at AHL before coming waiver-exempt. It now just pure gamble will he ever be a NHL player or not.

In most of the cases, a player with any strengths in his game, won't ever be any kind of useful NHL player.

Even though he would be valuable some other team, it does not anyhow turn our organization to one way or another. We will have players to replace him now, and, in the future. He isn't any kind of missing piece of anything.

He should really impress at the training camp to get a spot, or he is gone. It's do or die for him right now.
How many times you seen him play to come to the conclusion that he has NO srengths?

Great skill level, can really dangle, is solid defensively, he hits when needed, and he's a guy that can play on the PP and PK. He's on a very cheap 3 year contract which helps too. I've seen him look like a dominant player in the AHL and yet sometimes for all his dominance he'll walk away pointless and that's so very easy for guys who don't watch to write him off as being ineffective.

If he is waived (likely) he will be claimed and prove guys like you very wrong.

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08-01-2010, 01:49 PM
  #38
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I gotta admit, I haven't seen much of Ritola...but he looked good in the few games he played for the Wings last season. Definitely saw some potential, at under 600K for a 3 more seasons I think you gotta keep him around.

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08-01-2010, 02:16 PM
  #39
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I'd like to see him play before making any judgment. I'd say no to Modano and make Draper the eternal healthy scratch.


Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom
Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi
Cleary-Abdelkader-Hudler
Eaves-Helm-Miller
Ritola

Draper

Lidstrom-Rafalski
Kronwall-Stuart
Kindl-Ericsson

Meech

Howard
Osgood

If we decide we need something else, that's what the trade deadline is for. This lineup is more than enough for getting into the playoffs.

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Old
08-02-2010, 06:50 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Filppula View Post

If he is waived (likely) he will be claimed and prove guys like you very wrong.
Sort of.

If he's waived and claimed elsewhere he'll also have a much greater chance to be more than the 11th-13th forward he would be in Detroit.

Again, going somewhere else and succeeding in a role a player would never see in a million years in Detroit in no way implies that player would be a superior option over the roster he left behind.

See: Leino, Ville.

Whether it's Ritola, or Quincey, or whoever else... being able to become a #2 defenseman or a #6 forward on a weaker team isn't some kind of reverse-implication that they should have been the #2 defenseman or the #6 forward for the Detroit Red Wings, or that the Wings made a mistake by letting the guy go.

It's about who would be the best for the Wings. Ritola, bless his heart, doesn't look like a top 6 player and doesn't look like he'll be a better depth player than Eaves or Miller (or Modano allegedly). That means he's out. Now, maybe he comes to camp and impresses and this whole situation changes... and if that's the case, we're off to the races and whoever earns the spot gets the spot.

If it doesn't, however, and he ends up being a decent bottom 6er for someone else... c'est la vie. Detroit only has 23 roster spots and they can't waste them stockpiling guys who would be okay somewhere else at the cost of guys who would be better here.

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08-02-2010, 09:13 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Sort of.

If he's waived and claimed elsewhere he'll also have a much greater chance to be more than the 11th-13th forward he would be in Detroit.

Again, going somewhere else and succeeding in a role a player would never see in a million years in Detroit in no way implies that player would be a superior option over the roster he left behind.

See: Leino, Ville.

Whether it's Ritola, or Quincey, or whoever else... being able to become a #2 defenseman or a #6 forward on a weaker team isn't some kind of reverse-implication that they should have been the #2 defenseman or the #6 forward for the Detroit Red Wings, or that the Wings made a mistake by letting the guy go.

It's about who would be the best for the Wings. Ritola, bless his heart, doesn't look like a top 6 player and doesn't look like he'll be a better depth player than Eaves or Miller (or Modano allegedly). That means he's out. Now, maybe he comes to camp and impresses and this whole situation changes... and if that's the case, we're off to the races and whoever earns the spot gets the spot.

If it doesn't, however, and he ends up being a decent bottom 6er for someone else... c'est la vie. Detroit only has 23 roster spots and they can't waste them stockpiling guys who would be okay somewhere else at the cost of guys who would be better here.
Fact: Wings do make mistakes.

Fact: He impresses in TC and he still gets turfed.

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08-03-2010, 07:58 AM
  #42
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i've updated the chart w/ the rumored $1.25mil for Modano; will change if the number/news does.
assuming this is true, it leaves us a bit more than $2.5mil for Helm, Gator, and a #6-7 d-man. (assuming Ritola & Meech are waived/dealt to make room, tack another mil of room on there for $3.5mil.)

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08-03-2010, 08:39 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
Fact: Wings do make mistakes.
True, but meaningless. A) everyone makes mistakes, B) nobody is saying the Wings don't make mistakes, and C) the inevitability of mistakes is not by definition support of an opposing position, because it would be equally relevant in any discussion about anything, ever.

Quote:
Fact: He impresses in TC and he still gets turfed.
Enh. That's your opinion. In my opinion, if he beats out Miller or Eaves they'd get rid of them and keep Ritola instead. Also in my opinion, it's unlikely that happens because Miller and Eaves are better overall, and definitely better than Ritola in the third-fourth line roles in question.

That will likely result in Ritola getting waived, possibly claimed, and hopefully (for him) going on to have a decent NHL career somewhere else.

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08-04-2010, 03:46 PM
  #44
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updated w/ Helm's $912,500 cap number.
leaving us just over $1.6 mil for the Gator and an injury/call-up cushion; as mentioned a few posts ago, Kenny will have to get creative if he wants to squeeze a #6 d-man in there, too.

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08-04-2010, 04:07 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by jacK View Post
updated w/ Helm's $912,500 cap number.
leaving us just over $1.6 mil for the Gator and an injury/call-up cushion; as mentioned a few posts ago, Kenny will have to get creative if he wants to squeeze a #6 d-man in there, too.
If we get Abby at a 900K cap hit (2 years, 850K+950K), Modano signs at 1,25mill(somewhere I heard only 1mill!?) and we place Meech&Ritola on waivers, we end up with about 1,7mill in cap space for a d-man, right?. How much do we need to leave for a injury/call-up cushion?


Last edited by ChadS: 08-04-2010 at 05:00 PM.
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08-04-2010, 04:43 PM
  #46
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If we get Abby at a 900K cap hit (2 years, 850K+950K), Modano signs at 1,25mill(somewhere I heard only 1mill!?) and we place Meech&Ritola on waivers, we end up with about 1,2mill in cap space for a d-man, right?. How much do we need to leave for a injury/call-up cushion?
1.6 (space) - .9 (Abby in) + .5 (Meech out) + .5 (Ritola out) would leave us about $1.7mil in space for a d-man (assuming the 1.25 number for Modano is correct.)
if we're carrying 14 forwards and 7 d-men (assuming Ritola & Meech are gone, and a #6-7 is signed), we're probably not going to need to leave a lot of space for contingencies. hell, last year we started the year over the cap w/ Lilly on LTIR.
there's no perfect number, but it's nice to have a buffer so you don't burn up all your cap space with injury replacements (like we did last year right off the bat), and leave yourself some room to add a bit of salary [if needed] at the deadline.

if you'd like to know more about how the cap works, with LTIR/replacements and whatnot, i'll be glad to fill ya in a bit. if you've already got most of it down, then i won't bore you.
in conclusion, the injury cushion is more of a luxury than a necessity. it's nice to save that space, but there are ways to operate even if it's not there.

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08-04-2010, 06:28 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by jacK View Post
1.6 (space) - .9 (Abby in) + .5 (Meech out) + .5 (Ritola out) would leave us about $1.7mil in space for a d-man (assuming the 1.25 number for Modano is correct.)
You are wrong with that calculation. That 1.6 capspace is already without Ritola. You can check this from capgeek or from any other source.

So 1.6 (space) - 0.9 (Abby in) + 0.5 (Meech out) would leave us 1.2 million capspace.

That's
500k for injury replacement (Ritola/Downey/Meech/Janik/Kolosov)
and
700k for that 3rd pairing defeceman.

Ken Holland said earlier that we will let AT LEAST 500k reserve for those short-term injuries and I trust to our GM's word more than any other on this board.

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08-04-2010, 07:00 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
You are wrong with that calculation. That 1.6 capspace is already without Ritola. You can check this from capgeek or from any other source.

So 1.6 (space) - 0.9 (Abby in) + 0.5 (Meech out) would leave us 1.2 million capspace.

That's
500k for injury replacement (Ritola/Downey/Meech/Janik/Kolosov)
and
700k for that 3rd pairing defeceman.

Ken Holland said earlier that we will let AT LEAST 500k reserve for those short-term injuries and I trust to our GM's word more than any other on this board.
hmmph, right on. capgeek is the main source for this, but i've been doing the calculations myself to make sure something like this didn't happen when i jumped ahead of CG w/ deals like Modano's... whoops.
so, yeah... assuming Rits is gone, $1.2mil it is.

for short-term injuries, our 13th & 14th forwards (Miller, Drapes) or 7th defensemen (Meech/UFA) will be filling in, not Ritola/Downey/Janik/Kolosov, so the need for a $500k buffer isn't there. we may have it anyway, but it won't be necessary; it's all in how Kenny wants to use the space.

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08-04-2010, 09:29 PM
  #49
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Ken Holland said earlier that we will let AT LEAST 500k reserve for those short-term injuries and I trust to our GM's word more than any other on this board.
I wonder if he will still do that with a roster of 22 or 23 players, though. With 23 guys on the NHL roster the team will be scratching 3 guys a night. Assuming they won't all be forwards, I don't know if it's as critical to have 500k of short term injury space when the team will be carrying 3 injury replacements to start with.

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08-04-2010, 10:34 PM
  #50
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A deadline pickup will be worth 50 times whatever they might get out of Meech this year (which won't be much). They're better off dropping him and either bringing in a decent depth defender or just banking the cap space for the deadline.

This team is going to have at least one or two holes to fill in the spring. They'll want to have some room for that.

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