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MPS vs Cowen ??

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Old
06-02-2010, 04:51 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeJong View Post
Also the Lee vs Kopitar debate is flawed as compared to MPS vs Cowen. Kopitar was the 5th rated prospect in the 2005 draft as per TSN but fell due to his birthplace. Lee was ranked 14th and was a reach.

Cowen was ranked 7th and was drafted 9th. MPS was ranked 10th and went 10th.

Basically Kopitar was a top 5 talent that never should have fallen and Lee was a massive reach.

Pretty simple...
This

and I've seen some lists and mock drafts that had Lee as low as 20th to 30th. Cowen was always a top 10 prospect.

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Old
06-02-2010, 04:56 PM
  #27
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Any idiot knows that it's too early to say.

We'll know in a few years when we see a thread saying "John Public vs. Pete Smith - is it the next Cowen/MPS?"

and the cycle will continue.

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Old
06-02-2010, 05:15 PM
  #28
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We needed to address the D these last couple of drafts. And the Cowen/Karlsson will be the new Chara/Redden duo of the future.

That said, this will be the draft for forwards of the Sens future.

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Old
06-02-2010, 06:17 PM
  #29
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Cowen is a beast, we drafted a 6'5, 220lbs defensive defenseman with a high level skating ability and we saw him last season without his speed, so it's hard to make an accurate judgment on him. He'll still be a defensive stud though

I have to believe he has untapped offensive potential as well. He's got a very hard shot, he'll be a staple on one of our PPs because of his slapshot. It's not out of the realm of possibility for him to have 30+ seasons in the NHL.

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06-02-2010, 06:30 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
Cowen is a beast, we drafted a 6'5, 220lbs defensive defenseman with a high level skating ability and we saw him last season without his speed, so it's hard to make an accurate judgment on him. He'll still be a defensive stud though

I have to believe he has untapped offensive potential as well. He's got a very hard shot, he'll be a staple on one of our PPs because of his slapshot. It's not out of the realm of possibility for him to have 30+ seasons in the NHL.
I really don't see him ever being more than Phillips is on the PP. His shot takes too long for him to get off, and his wrist shot is awkward and soft. When a guy doesn't even play the point for his junior team, and he's their best defenseman, it's hard to expect him to ever take on that role at the pro level.

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Old
06-02-2010, 07:20 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Stanley View Post
I really don't see him ever being more than Phillips is on the PP. His shot takes too long for him to get off, and his wrist shot is awkward and soft. When a guy doesn't even play the point for his junior team, and he's their best defenseman, it's hard to expect him to ever take on that role at the pro level.
i agree 100% .. i only see him as a Philips type player!!
A franchise D-man is someone that can play on both ends of the ice.

To whoever said that Kadri is Better then MPS... stop the drugs and wake up !! Kadri is a small forward who doesn't back check, and is a Kovalev type player that takes nights off. He has everything to prove now, but once he's settled in the team with a long term contract, watch him take a bunch of nights off. He's Lebanese, lazy player lol ... I'm lebanese too, we're all the same haha

MPS is much bigger, he's a Marian Hossa type player !!

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Old
06-02-2010, 07:28 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by PablitoArg View Post
i agree 100% .. i only see him as a Philips type player!!
A franchise D-man is someone that can play on both ends of the ice.

To whoever said that Kadri is Better then MPS... stop the drugs and wake up !! Kadri is a small forward who doesn't back check, and is a Kovalev type player that takes nights off. He has everything to prove now, but once he's settled in the team with a long term contract, watch him take a bunch of nights off. He's Lebanese, lazy player lol ... I'm lebanese too, we're all the same haha

MPS is much bigger, he's a Marian Hossa type player !!
MPS is more like Shean Donovan who doesn't forecheck but with more scoring ability.

Kadri would be the perfect 2nd line center behind Spezza, he's not much smaller than MPS, he's got that nasty edge fans love and, most of all, he comes up huge in the big games, unlike MPS.

Plus, just the fact that a center is soooo much more valuable than a winger.

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Old
06-02-2010, 08:08 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Stanley View Post
I really don't see him ever being more than Phillips is on the PP. His shot takes too long for him to get off, and his wrist shot is awkward and soft. When a guy doesn't even play the point for his junior team, and he's their best defenseman, it's hard to expect him to ever take on that role at the pro level.
That shot you are referring to is a slapshot, and it takes longer to get on net than a wrist shot

The only reason he wasn't playing point for Spokane is because they already had an elite PP QB in Jared Spurgeon and they felt Cowen's big body would be best for screening the goalie, basically what Chara does for Boston on occasion.

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Old
06-02-2010, 08:17 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
That shot you are referring to is a slapshot, and it takes longer to get on net than a wrist shot

The only reason he wasn't playing point for Spokane is because they already had an elite PP QB in Jared Spurgeon and they felt Cowen's big body would be best for screening the goalie, basically what Chara does for Boston on occasion.
I don't get your sense of humour, so I'll just leave the sarcastic part alone.

As for Spurgeon, I understand that, but if Cowen was an asset on the point he would play it on the second unit, or be the big shot next to Spurgeon who QBs. Instead they use him in front of the net. I think that's a pretty significant indication of what his coaches think of him on the point. Of course, you could argue that we don't really know what he'd be like as the PP QB because he hasn't done it, but having seen him play in the WHL I just don't think Cowen has that offensive mindset. He to me is a guy who takes pride in his defense and is content with that.

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06-02-2010, 08:24 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Senator Stanley View Post
I don't get your sense of humour, so I'll just leave the sarcastic part alone.

As for Spurgeon, I understand that, but if Cowen was an asset on the point he would play it on the second unit, or be the big shot next to Spurgeon who QBs. Instead they use him in front of the net. I think that's a pretty significant indication of what his coaches think of him on the point. Of course, you could argue that we don't really know what he'd be like as the PP QB because he hasn't done it, but having seen him play in the WHL I just don't think Cowen has that offensive mindset. He to me is a guy who takes pride in his defense and is content with that.
Chara has the hardest point shot in the league, and they put him in front of the net to screen goalies and bang in rebounds. It has nothing to do with Cowen's offensive talent, they need a guy to plant himself in front of the net and make life for the opposing goalie a nightmare. Spokane just has a better option on the point in Spurgeon.

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Old
06-02-2010, 08:26 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
Chara has the hardest point shot in the league, and they put him in front of the net to screen goalies and bang in rebounds. It has nothing to do with Cowen's offensive talent, they need a guy to plant himself in front of the net and make life for the opposing goalie a nightmare. Spokane just has a better option on the point in Spurgeon.
But Chara doesn't often play in the front of the net. Most of the time he's better utilized on the point, and so that's where he is.

As for Spurgeon, I think I explained why that shouldn't stand in Cowen's way. He doesn't play the 2nd unit, and he doesn't play as a D partner for Spurgeon.

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Old
06-02-2010, 08:31 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Senator Stanley View Post
But Chara doesn't often play in the front of the net. Most of the time he's better utilized on the point, and so that's where he is.

As for Spurgeon, I think I explained why that shouldn't stand in Cowen's way. He doesn't play the 2nd unit, and he doesn't play as a D partner for Spurgeon.
This is what I don't get, he's got a great point shot and you are using him in front of the net to do a powerforward's job. If i'm the coach for Spokane I give my head a shake, if he was better utilized on the PP he could've had 30 points easy this year.

Why not stick Beach in front of the net, and Cowen on the point?

Makes no sense.

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Old
06-02-2010, 08:55 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Jano View Post
MPS is more like Shean Donovan who doesn't forecheck but with more scoring ability.

Kadri would be the perfect 2nd line center behind Spezza, he's not much smaller than MPS, he's got that nasty edge fans love and, most of all, he comes up huge in the big games, unlike MPS.

Plus, just the fact that a center is soooo much more valuable than a winger.
I disagree, watched Kadri in the O one of the laziest players on the ice at all times. He floats and throw a dirty check once in a while. Is it just for or did he look awful for world juniors maybe I was just watching different games. He does have offensive ability, but the kind of player where he will only look good in blue and white.

No clue on MPS for forechecking wise never watched him to be honest. Only saw highlights. But a kid that fast with that kinda of size to build on, can only learn.

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Old
06-02-2010, 10:22 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by PablitoArg View Post
sorts of reminds me of Brian Lee & Anze Kopitar
Based on what?

The fact that one is a defenseman and the other a forward?

Or the total of one NHL game we've seen the two of them play so far?

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Old
06-02-2010, 10:48 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jano View Post
MPS is more like Shean Donovan who doesn't forecheck but with more scoring ability.

Kadri would be the perfect 2nd line center behind Spezza, he's not much smaller than MPS, he's got that nasty edge fans love and, most of all, he comes up huge in the big games, unlike MPS.

Plus, just the fact that a center is soooo much more valuable than a winger.
I think Kadri's skills are better suited for the wing personally. And unless the kid learns how to take a faceoff, as well as learn how to backcheck and play defensively, he'll never be a centreman.

He's a potential dynamic offensive winger much like a Pat Kane except with less offensive skills but has a nasty side which I like...

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Old
06-02-2010, 11:01 PM
  #41
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People already giving up on Cowen... sigh.

Yeah let's trade him now while he's a bust, that worked really well for Milbury and the Isles with Chara and all.

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Old
06-03-2010, 03:24 AM
  #42
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Jared Cowen DID play with spurgeon on the powerplay at times, but as mentioned spokanes coach for the past two years Hardy Suater at times was unable to extract the best performance from his team. So since you guys were mentioning strange coaching decisions his contract option year was not taken up this year effectively and they let him go and they are searching for a replacement. He'll likely play the point on the PP this year in the WHL under the new coach.

The injury he suffered from takes YEARS to recover from fully, I broke my leg and guess what it's going to take probably 2 years to fully heal.Another thing is that cowen has been extremely succesful his whole life and frankly a big guy like that who has never suffered a blow to his body and his confidence is a new experience and he'll grow from it, he's never gone through anything like this. As for his recent play well he was a very good player in the playoffs for spokane this year especially in game 7. I think he can absolutely be a number 1 defence man in the nhl, but he needs time to develop and recover, and as those things come he will be a very good defence man, perhaps actually more important than karlsson or wiercioch or anyone else.

Perhaps it's just that my entire family is involved in physical and psychological health, but between cowen, spezza and everyone else some of the media guys and fans of this team drive me nuts.

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Old
06-03-2010, 06:56 AM
  #43
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Thing is, Murray will never admit it and you will see Cowen rushed to correspond with MPS emergence. if MPS starts lighting it up, expect a call up of Cowen regardless of where he is at in his developmental stage.

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06-03-2010, 07:21 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdog1979 View Post
Based on what?

The fact that one is a defenseman and the other a forward?

Or the total of one NHL game we've seen the two of them play so far?
i was comparing the SITUATION btw, not the players. But since you insisted.

the fact that Lee was drafted to be a #1 D-man. Move the puck and run our Powerplay. Instead, he turned into a shutdown type of guy. Like Cowen will be.

Anze Kopitar is a star in this league, and i'm sure MPS will be one too.

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Old
06-03-2010, 07:34 AM
  #45
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It's been about 16 months now since Cowen injured his knee. We either have to stop using it as an excuse for this kid, or we have to start considering it a chronic injury a la Cheechoo.

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Old
06-03-2010, 07:59 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBeforeMcGrattan View Post
It's been about 16 months now since Cowen injured his knee. We either have to stop using it as an excuse for this kid, or we have to start considering it a chronic injury a la Cheechoo.
OR we can accept that the injury happened while he was still rough and it cost him a year of development.

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Old
06-03-2010, 08:38 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by NeilBeforeMcGrattan View Post
It's been about 16 months now since Cowen injured his knee. We either have to stop using it as an excuse for this kid, or we have to start considering it a chronic injury a la Cheechoo.
I had papercut once and it bled for 4 years.

It was touch-and-go for awhile, but thankfully I can contribute to society again by photocopying, printing and faxing documents on a regular basis.

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Old
06-03-2010, 08:43 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by NeilBeforeMcGrattan View Post
It's been about 16 months now since Cowen injured his knee. We either have to stop using it as an excuse for this kid, or we have to start considering it a chronic injury a la Cheechoo.
chronic? are you serious?

for all we know he is 100% right now.

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Old
06-03-2010, 08:53 AM
  #49
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I had papercut once and it bled for 4 years.

It was touch-and-go for awhile, but thankfully I can contribute to society again by photocopying, printing and faxing documents on a regular basis.
HELP ME !@ My Nose - it's bleeding!

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Old
06-03-2010, 09:51 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBeforeMcGrattan View Post
It's been about 16 months now since Cowen injured his knee. We either have to stop using it as an excuse for this kid, or we have to start considering it a chronic injury a la Cheechoo.
I believe the normal prognosis for a knee injury of his magnitude is 18 months for a full and complete recovery. It's structurally strong enough to play on sooner, but a full and complete heal takes longer. I remember reading comments from him last year that his injured leg was visibly smaller than his other leg. You also can't dismiss the adverse effect of missing an entire offseason of proper training.

I was pleased to see that he was still a good player this season, despite the problems his knee was causing. I'm expecting more out of him next season though, he'll have a clean slate with a full summer to train and get stronger. If his skating still looks bad next season, then we should be concerned I think. Also, Marian Hossa and Milan Michalek have both had major knee injuries like Cowen, and I think their skating is doing just fine.

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