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Old
06-04-2010, 08:50 PM
  #101
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Why is Backlund off limits? In the short time he was up here, Backlund showed us he had the talent. My issue with Backlund is consistency as he has never shown it thus far in his career. Backlund is certainly not off limits.

The best case scenario would be Spezza for Regehr, Langkow, and mid-level prospect.

Regehr and Backlund for Spezza is a decent deal as well as it would allow us to keep Langkow and we would have some toughness down the middle.

Regehr and Stajan for Spezza, I would be a little reluctant to do, but with a player like Spezza coming back, I'd still pull the trigger.
And where does this extra cap space come from. Trading Backlund would be a huge mistake. Basically are only draft pick that shows any signs of making the NHL and you would trade him? Not only does his .850k contract help our cap problems he is a player capable of 40 points in his rookie season. How has Backlund been inconsistent, he has played 20 games in the NHL, don't pass judgment that quick on a 20 year old.

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06-04-2010, 10:19 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
And where does this extra cap space come from. Trading Backlund would be a huge mistake. Basically are only draft pick that shows any signs of making the NHL and you would trade him? Not only does his .850k contract help our cap problems he is a player capable of 40 points in his rookie season. How has Backlund been inconsistent, he has played 20 games in the NHL, don't pass judgment that quick on a 20 year old.
Where did I pass judgment on Backlund? I merely stated what is known, Backlund has not yet shown to be a consistent player.

Backlund has been very inconsistent over his career in Vasteras, Kelowna, and Abbotsford (if you've followed Backlund's career at all, you know that inconsistency is his biggest weakness). He's a big game player and he really brought it down the stretch when the Flames needed points. However, I still need to see Backlund perform consistently for a whole season. 2 points in October count the same as two points in April.

Cap space can be managed. Regehr (4.020) + Kotalik (3.0) ~= Spezza (7.00). Like I said, best case scenario is Langkow gets traded, but if they wanted Backlund, then I couldn't think of any reason Sutter wouldn't pull the trigger on the deal.

My point is Backlund is not untouchable. I'd prefer not to trade him but for Spezza, HELL YEAH!

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06-05-2010, 03:16 PM
  #103
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It depends what Ottawa is looking for. They're pretty stacked on defensive prospects, so they're going to ask for Backlund & Nemisz - possibly more to come back - someone to shore up the wing. Not to mention the salary that has to be shed by Calgary, so at least Lankgow & ... Hagman? Kotalik?

So Langkow, Hagman, Nemisz, and Backlund

for

Spezza
2nd round pick 2010 (let's get one back for a change - ha ha)

Now what if Spezza is a bigger bust than Jokinen? Because that's entirely possible, and people wanted Jokinen here for years, and were willing to part with a similar package in many proposals.

Me - I'd actually be for it; with the provision that the Flames will need a massive paradigm shift. The system has to change from within, and the entire team has to be restructured around a new offensive / skating / puck pursuit system rather than a more defensive-first system. It might mean a coaching change... again. While I think Playfair could be a good replacement to keep some familiarity in the ranks, I think there might be a better option or two out there.

This would mean changes on the backend as well; guys like Regehr would also have to be traded so he doesn't whine like a little ***** when the forwards are late entering the defensive zone. Sarich and Staios, while defensive stalwarts, would have to go to free up spots for players with more mobility, in the mold of Bouwmeester / Giordano.

Why give up the few blue chip prospects the Flames have for Spezza? Because he's in his mid-20's, has yet to hit his prime, and IMO he is "the" number one centre this team needs; he is used to playing with talented wingers, can win a faceoff more often than he loses.

Bottom line - simply adding a player like Spezza and expecting him to adapt to the current Flames system is a catastrophe waiting to happen. The system needs to adjust to him. We saw the same thing happen to Jokinen, and although less noticeable, it has also happened with Tanguay, Lombardi, and Kobasew.

TL,DR version: Spezza is good and young, Flames should do it then change to be a more offensive team.

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06-05-2010, 05:08 PM
  #104
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The Senators don't have a 2nd-round pick this year.

I'm not a huge Spezza fan. While he has talent, he continues to make many of the same mistakes he did as a 19-year old rookie. He can make excellent passes and he has a very good wrist shot, but he's inconsistent and not the type of player to build a team around, which you would expect for a player earning $7M annually.

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06-05-2010, 05:13 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
The Senators don't have a 2nd-round pick this year.

I'm not a huge Spezza fan. While he has talent, he continues to make many of the same mistakes he did as a 19-year old rookie. He can make excellent passes and he has a very good wrist shot, but he's inconsistent and not the type of player to build a team around, which you would expect for a player earning $7M annually.
They had a SJ 2nd and theirs. The SJ went to NYI for Andy Sutton. As far as know they still have theirs...

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06-05-2010, 05:24 PM
  #106
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The Senators don't have a 2nd-round pick this year.
Obvious sarcasm aside, it can be the 2011 if it makes it more "realistic"...

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06-05-2010, 06:07 PM
  #107
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The Sens traded their 2nd and Picard to the Hurricanes for Cullen.

The 2nd the Sens got from San Jose in the Heatley deal went to the Islanders for Sutton.

Sens don't have a second in 2010 at this point.

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06-06-2010, 02:44 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
If you watch Spezza play then there would be no way you would rather have him then Marleau.
I watch both. I'd take Spezza for 7 before Marleau at whatever he will bring (at least 6). Getting Spezza through his prime bringing what he brings does far more for this team than bringing in Marleau at 30.

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Spezza is more creative yes, way more creative than most in the league.

But Marleau is better at everything else.
We have players that can do 'everything else'. We're loaded with them. What we don't have is a player who can create offense the way Spezza can.

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Yes playmaking is an issue on this team but that doesn't mean I would go after a 1 dimensional player. If Spezza can improve on his defesive game as much as he did last year then I would take him, otherwise no thanks.
And Brent Sutter isn't the type to improve a player's defensive game.

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06-06-2010, 02:56 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by BurnEmUp View Post
The Sens traded their 2nd and Picard to the Hurricanes for Cullen.

The 2nd the Sens got from San Jose in the Heatley deal went to the Islanders for Sutton.

Sens don't have a second in 2010 at this point.
Thanks for the clarification. I forgot about the Cullen deal.

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06-06-2010, 08:41 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughneck View Post
I watch both. I'd take Spezza for 7 before Marleau at whatever he will bring (at least 6). Getting Spezza through his prime bringing what he brings does far more for this team than bringing in Marleau at 30.



We have players that can do 'everything else'. We're loaded with them. What we don't have is a player who can create offense the way Spezza can.


And Brent Sutter isn't the type to improve a player's defensive game.
If sutter can get him to improve as much on his d game as he did last year I would pee joy to have him. Otherwise his giveaways would bury the team come playoffs.

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06-06-2010, 10:02 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
If sutter can get him to improve as much on his d game as he did last year I would pee joy to have him. Otherwise his giveaways would bury the team come playoffs.
Like it buried the Sens when they made it all the way to the SCF?

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06-06-2010, 11:21 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
If sutter can get him to improve as much on his d game as he did last year I would pee joy to have him. Otherwise his giveaways would bury the team come playoffs.
Yeah, Spezza's playoff record is abysmal compared to 'Mr. Everything' Marleau.

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06-07-2010, 10:56 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Roughneck View Post
Yeah, Spezza's playoff record is abysmal compared to 'Mr. Everything' Marleau.
It is how Spezza can cost his team a game with his poor decisions. Also his contract is a lot to swallow if it doesn't work out.

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06-07-2010, 11:31 AM
  #114
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Either Spezza or Marleau would be an enourmas upgrade on whoever the hell is currently slotted in to be our #1 centre next season. Speeza would be my first choice, but I would be happy settling for Marleau if it didn't work out. Although Marleau played wing this season, he was moved there because of Joe Thorton. A wingers job is to score (so score he did), but Marleau does have great speed and good play making ability. And he does have a very good scoring touch which is never a bad thing. As I said Marleau is a huge upgrade over Stajan and Langkow no matter how look at it. With that said, Speeza's play making ability is higher than Marleau's and he would be my first choice. A change of scenery could totally revitalize him and Iggy has been known for making guys have career years. It could be something pretty special if it worked out that way.


Last edited by Johnny Hoxville: 06-07-2010 at 04:42 PM.
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06-07-2010, 02:29 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Either Speeza or Marleau would be an enourmas upgrade on whoever the hell is currently slotted in to be our #1 centre next season. Speeza would be my first choice, but I would be happy settling for Marleau if it didn't work out. Although Marleau played wing this season, he was moved there because of Joe Thorton. A wingers job is to score (so score he did), but Marleau does have great speed and good play making ability. And he does have a very good scoring touch which is never a bad thing. As I said Marleau is a huge upgrade over Stajan and Langkow no matter how look at it. With that said, Speeza's play making ability is higher than Marleau's and he would be my first choice. A change of scenery could totally revitalize him and Iggy has been known for making guys have career years. It could be something pretty special if it worked out that way.
Agreed on all counts. Either would be great.

I personally would rather have Spezza, and based on the Flames' current cap situation I think he's actually the more likely of the two to come over. We need to be able to move salary in order to get a top quality centerman, and a trade allows that much more easily than a FA signing.

Spezza, B. Richards, and Lecavalier are the most realistic targets. All have good playmaking ability... and large contracts. The key will be in Sutter's ability to absorb those big contracts while still putting together a package that would make sense for the relinquishing team.

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06-07-2010, 04:37 PM
  #116
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Here is a trade I thought that might be an interesting one, and it would be an absolute block buster deal.

To Ottawa:
Regehr
Langkow
Kotalik
Niemsz

To Calgary:
Spezza
Kovalev

Ottawa takes on a little more salary in this trade but it allows them to move Speeza who apparently has requested a trade, and enables Murray to move a problem contract.

We get a #1 centre that is the play maker we have been always looking for and one of most creative wingers in the NHL. Granted Kovalev did not have a great season, but maybe it would work out for him here. We take one of their bad contracts, and we rid of ourselves of Kotaliks in the process. For those who would say no way Kovalev, ask yourself this. Who would rather have Kotalik or Kovalev? For me it would be Kovalev all the way. If he can find some magic with Iggy and Speeza, that could be one of the most dangerous top lines in the whole NHL on any team. Ottawa also gets a shutdown d-man to replace the likely departed Volchenkov.

So then say our top 3 lines look like this,

Kovalev Speeza Iginla
Hagman Stajan Bourque
Dawes Backlund Higgins


Last edited by Johnny Hoxville: 06-07-2010 at 04:42 PM.
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06-07-2010, 07:36 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Here is a trade I thought that might be an interesting one, and it would be an absolute block buster deal.

To Ottawa:
Regehr
Langkow
Kotalik
Niemsz

To Calgary:
Spezza
Kovalev

Ottawa takes on a little more salary in this trade but it allows them to move Speeza who apparently has requested a trade, and enables Murray to move a problem contract.

We get a #1 centre that is the play maker we have been always looking for and one of most creative wingers in the NHL. Granted Kovalev did not have a great season, but maybe it would work out for him here. We take one of their bad contracts, and we rid of ourselves of Kotaliks in the process. For those who would say no way Kovalev, ask yourself this. Who would rather have Kotalik or Kovalev? For me it would be Kovalev all the way. If he can find some magic with Iggy and Speeza, that could be one of the most dangerous top lines in the whole NHL on any team. Ottawa also gets a shutdown d-man to replace the likely departed Volchenkov.

So then say our top 3 lines look like this,

Kovalev Speeza Iginla
Hagman Stajan Bourque
Dawes Backlund Higgins

Leave Nemisz off the trade and maybe throw in Moss. I see Moss is not in your top 9 anyways

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06-07-2010, 08:49 PM
  #118
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Leave Nemisz off the trade and maybe throw in Moss. I see Moss is not in your top 9 anyways
I was actually thinking of that, Moss has scored 20 goals and has an excellent contract but is useless on our team. I said Niemsz because Murray might want to be enticed a little more for taking Kotalik off of our hands. But yes I completely agree, if Moss would work there for Ottawa then I would prefer to trade him over Niemsz. This trade would not only give us a #1 centre, but a top left winger that when motivated could score 70-80 points on that caliber of line.

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06-07-2010, 08:49 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
It is how Spezza can cost his team a game with his poor decisions.
Spezza has helped his team reach the SCF. He's a career point-per-game player in the playoffs (regular season too). How is he any worse than Marleau who often finds himself front and centre in terms of not coming through when the team needs it.

Quote:
Also his contract is a lot to swallow if it doesn't work out.
So you'd be happy to sign a 50 point player for more than $6M so long as he can kill penalties? Marleau and the contract he'll likely command is as risky as any in the league if you're taking him away from a passer and he regresses to his pre-Thornton production. What a useless point.

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06-07-2010, 09:41 PM
  #120
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I like Marleau, but anyone who would rather have him before Spezza needs to have their head examined.....especially on this team.

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06-08-2010, 02:54 AM
  #121
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The idea that Spezza is a big ol' softie is one of those internet things that has gained steam over the years. The guy is not soft. He was the one in the corners fishing out the puck to get Heatley 50 goals. He was the one dangling through the defense and setting up far lesser players with golden chances the past year. It's comical the reputation he seems to have developed.

All that said, I don't think this team can afford to take on a cap hit of $7.0 per year for the next five years. And I don't see much that the Flames have to make it worth the Sens time...

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06-08-2010, 09:03 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by RipThisJoint View Post
The idea that Spezza is a big ol' softie is one of those internet things that has gained steam over the years. The guy is not soft. He was the one in the corners fishing out the puck to get Heatley 50 goals. He was the one dangling through the defense and setting up far lesser players with golden chances the past year. It's comical the reputation he seems to have developed.

All that said, I don't think this team can afford to take on a cap hit of $7.0 per year for the next five years. And I don't see much that the Flames have to make it worth the Sens time...
I completely agree with the 1st point, just because he is not physical it doesn't mean he is soft... the guy has heart and balls... I remmeber when Dion cause Heater with his head down and Spezza tried to fight to defend him, I've got nothing but respect for Spezza.

as for your 2nd point I agree to a point... we would have to have a pair of $4+ contracts going the other way to make it work

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06-08-2010, 10:39 AM
  #123
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I completely agree with the 1st point, just because he is not physical it doesn't mean he is soft... the guy has heart and balls... I remmeber when Dion cause Heater with his head down and Spezza tried to fight to defend him, I've got nothing but respect for Spezza.

as for your 2nd point I agree to a point... we would have to have a pair of $4+ contracts going the other way to make it work
Langkow and Kotalik +?

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06-08-2010, 10:41 AM
  #124
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Spezza has helped his team reach the SCF. He's a career point-per-game player in the playoffs (regular season too). How is he any worse than Marleau who often finds himself front and centre in terms of not coming through when the team needs it.



So you'd be happy to sign a 50 point player for more than $6M so long as he can kill penalties? Marleau and the contract he'll likely command is as risky as any in the league if you're taking him away from a passer and he regresses to his pre-Thornton production. What a useless point.
I'm a huge Sens fan...The SCF run is a non point. That team was so loaded with talent. You want to talk about a guy who got them there how about Mike Fisher or a number of the dmen.

Like I said I would be happy if Spezza came, but he is not my ideal choice. Depending on what Marleau wants and for how long, I would rather take a shot at him. Talk like this is all speculation, but if we could get Marleau at a decent price and shorter term I would rather have that then Spezza's contract.

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06-08-2010, 10:42 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by RipThisJoint View Post
The idea that Spezza is a big ol' softie is one of those internet things that has gained steam over the years. The guy is not soft. He was the one in the corners fishing out the puck to get Heatley 50 goals. He was the one dangling through the defense and setting up far lesser players with golden chances the past year. It's comical the reputation he seems to have developed.

All that said, I don't think this team can afford to take on a cap hit of $7.0 per year for the next five years. And I don't see much that the Flames have to make it worth the Sens time...
I def don't think Spezza is a softy by any stretch, but he has brutal turnovers.

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