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3 Concussions for Pitkanen

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Old
05-18-2004, 08:28 AM
  #1
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3 Concussions for Pitkanen

This has to be Joni's third concussion by my count. He had 2 in the regular season and the one now. I don't think it would be a good idea for him to come back into this series. The kid is only 20 years old and has had 3 already. I think if we want him to be the next big thing on defense, we shouldn't let him play again and risk getting #4. I like the kid and I see the talent he has but I don't want to see him get hurt again.

Why do you guys think?

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05-18-2004, 08:58 AM
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donelikedinner
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a concussion in itself is not bad, its the severity and treatment that make the most. anyone whose had their bell rung and had a headache for a few hours has had a concussion. the brain can heal itself, but it needs proper time.

its a shame joni got this last concussion because he was starting to play the body and was willing to take a hit to make the play.

if the nhl wants to lower concussions, its simply a matter of new helmet design. just look at what the nfl has done with helmets in the last 10 years, what has the nhl done? zero.

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05-18-2004, 09:26 AM
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Gags12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donelikedinner
a concussion in itself is not bad, its the severity and treatment that make the most. anyone whose had their bell rung and had a headache for a few hours has had a concussion. the brain can heal itself, but it needs proper time.

its a shame joni got this last concussion because he was starting to play the body and was willing to take a hit to make the play.

if the nhl wants to lower concussions, its simply a matter of new helmet design. just look at what the nfl has done with helmets in the last 10 years, what has the nhl done? zero.
Not true...manufacturers have made helmets better by using different types/combos of high density and low density impact foam for the padding in the helmet. The problem is, you're not going to get the veteran players to switch to newer style helmets. Remember that piece of foamless plastic that Gretzky used to wear?? they are just too comfortable wearing what they've been wearing their entire careers, they won't change.

as for Joni's concussions. you can't say this is his 3rd because the other 2 times he got his "bell rung" this year were never reported as concussions. if he would have had concussions earlier in the season, he would have missed more time than he did because you don't mess with concussions, especially in young kids in the regular season. Did his last hit look like a concussion? yeah, it certainly did and probably was, but this being the playoffs, they'll never tell us it was. but like I said, you can't assume that those other times were legit concussions.

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05-18-2004, 09:36 AM
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If I was twenty years old, playing on this Philly team, and being this close to the cup if I could still skate I would play. If it was first round fine, but knowing how banged up we are at the position you do what it takes. Last thing you want to do is be a guy like Andreychuk who has never won anything before. You can almost taste the champagne and playing through something like this will just take longer to heal. Take the whole summer and perhaps longer with the layoff. Unless the docs don't give approval I'm sure he will play or even try to hide the truth.

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05-18-2004, 09:45 AM
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How do you know he got a concussion in game 4? You can be knocked out and not get a concussion.

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05-18-2004, 09:51 AM
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donelikedinner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
How do you know he got a concussion in game 4? You can be knocked out and not get a concussion.
From Webster's Online Dictionary:
One entry found for concussion.
Main Entry: con·cus·sion
Pronunciation: k&n-'k&-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English concussioun, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French concussion, from Latin concussion-, concussio, from concutere to shake violently, from com- + quatere to shake
1 a : a stunning, damaging, or shattering effect from a hard blow; especially : a jarring injury of the brain resulting in disturbance of cerebral function b : a hard blow or collision
2 : AGITATION, SHAKING

it would seem concussions happen all the time by definition, the severity is what really hurts. dammit jim, i'm not a doctor,, i'm a flyers fan!

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05-18-2004, 09:57 AM
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I will leave it to someone else to look up, but I was under the impression a concussion is when the Brain gets bruised banging into the inside of the skull, while a knockout is when excessive applied force (such as the centrifugal force from a blow) causes the brain stem to shut down. Could be wrong, as I am hardly an expert either.

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05-18-2004, 10:04 AM
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Gags12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
How do you know he got a concussion in game 4? You can be knocked out and not get a concussion.
yes, you can get knocked out and not have a concussion....happens in boxing all the time. They get knocked out all the time and don't sustain concussions.

A concussion is a bruising of the brain as a result from the brain banging against the inside of the skull. there are 3 grades of concussion and 3 different sets of signs/symptoms for each grade.

if he does have a reported concussion, the NHL mandates that a player must have 10 symptom free days before he can return. this is why it is reported as an upper body injury.

if he had 2 concussion in the regular season as someone mentioned, then he would have had to miss more time as required by the NHL as I stated above. he never had any reported concussions in the regular season.....so i wouldn't worry about this one if it is in fact a concussion.

Just look at Kapanen...that hit he took from Tucker was far worse than Pitkanen's. Kapanen couldn't even stand up....at least pitkanen got to his feet.

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05-18-2004, 10:05 AM
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Dykhuis26
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I do concussion-related research thanks to NFL funding and there is no clear definition of concussion. The 'definition' is a purely clinical one, as no one really knows what happens to the brain.
The clinician's definition is that a concussion is a 'transient alteration in mental status due to biomechanical forces affecting the brain with or without loss of consciousness.' Then it is divided into 3 grades of concussion.
So getting your 'bell rung' technically constitutes a Grade I concussion.

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05-18-2004, 10:10 AM
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One thing is clear about Pitkanen, he needs to get his elbows up when he knows a hit is coming or hes going to have a very short career.

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05-18-2004, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
One thing is clear about Pitkanen, he needs to get his elbows up when he knows a hit is coming or hes going to have a very short career.
As I wrote in another thread, the one thing I want to see from Pitkanen next year is when the first guy leaps ion the air to try and nail him, I want Pitkanen to cross-check the guy in the mouth.

I'll gladly take the 3-5 game suspension.

If he loosens a few teeth players will have second thoughts coming to hit him on the forecheck.

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05-18-2004, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
As I wrote in another thread, the one thing I want to see from Pitkanen next year is when the first guy leaps ion the air to try and nail him, I want Pitkanen to cross-check the guy in the mouth.

I'll gladly take the 3-5 game suspension.

If he loosens a few teeth players will have second thoughts coming to hit him on the forecheck.
he's going through the learning process....I think he's starting to understand the physical intensity that the playoffs bring. Not just from the standpoint of bodies banging constantly, but also from the standpoint of playing more games than he's used to. This is the most games he's played in a season in his "career" so I think that's why he hit a wall towards the end of the season and in the playoffs. The last game he seemed to make some strides as far as having more jump, getting in on plays, spending time inside the blueline rather than backing out early, etc. it's all part of the learning process and the kid is going to have a great career.

I dont like to talk about next year while they are still playing, but for this one time I'll make and exception....I'd like to see him gain a few pounds, add some bulk for next season. if he adds more of a physical edge to his game, he could be an allstar very easily.

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05-18-2004, 10:32 AM
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I agree. The number of concussions that he has suffered this season is very concerning. He must change something about his game if he is going to fulfill his potential. If not, he will become another athlete who's career will be cut short.

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05-18-2004, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gags12
The last game he seemed to make some strides as far as having more jump, getting in on plays, spending time inside the blueline rather than backing out early, etc. it's all part of the learning process and the kid is going to have a great career.
Last game he looked much better then I had seem him since the early part of the NJ series. He was active in the offensive zone and was looking for the puck alot.

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05-18-2004, 11:33 AM
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The big problem with concussions is that with each one you are more susceptible to get another. Brett Lindros's final concusssion was the result of a stick hitting him in the shoulder-blade (or something equally as benign). Roenick's most recent concussion was also weak sauce. Having 3 concussions at the age of 20 is bad no matter how you spin it.

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05-18-2004, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Roenick's most recent concussion was also weak sauce
Wow, I didn't realize having your helmet cracked on a check to the boards was "weak sauce."

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05-18-2004, 11:48 AM
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Why are people assuming Roenick had a concussion? he went awkwardly into the boards kind of face first, it didn't appear to me that he hit his head against the boards. My guess is that he reaggrevated that neck injury he sustained from the cheap ass crosscheck to the back of the neck by Nick Antropov in the Toronto series.

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05-18-2004, 11:51 AM
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I agree that the concussion is bad and he has to ba taken special care of because this is not Roenick who is in the twilight of his career. this kid ahs his entire future ahead of him and the Flyers have to make sure that this kid is not going to have long term affects from concussions like the Lindros brothers.

I also have said the same type of thing that JFF has about protecting himself. I said that he should get the but end of his stick or his elbows up to combat against these tyep of cheap shots. Taylor jumped off of his skates and injured him. had Joni got his stick or his elbow up, the injury might have went the other way and I am perfectly fine with that. players will stop running you if they know that they are going to pay a price. Messier said that when he first started getting run at, one of the goons on the Oilers told him to get his stick or his elbows up to protect himself. people called it dirty but it worked.

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05-18-2004, 12:16 PM
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FG69 - That was in an SI article about two years ago and Messier has told other young players the same thing. When a guy comes at your head, get your stick and elbow up. Pits is tall enough that if he did that we would see alot less problems.

Dykhuis is correct, I am an internist and the diagnosis and treatment of concussions is a big grey area to say the least but it is just based now on clinical findings and report from the patient.

Cracker - having one concussion only currently is felt to put you at risk for a short time, that said, some people tend to display concussion symptoms easier than others.

Go Flyers

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05-18-2004, 12:20 PM
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crackerzack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swflyers8
Wow, I didn't realize having your helmet cracked on a check to the boards was "weak sauce."
I've seen him take bigger checks and not even blink. The point I was trying to make is that your 10th concussion comes a hell of a lot easier than your first.

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05-18-2004, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
As I wrote in another thread, the one thing I want to see from Pitkanen next year is when the first guy leaps ion the air to try and nail him, I want Pitkanen to cross-check the guy in the mouth.

I'll gladly take the 3-5 game suspension.

If he loosens a few teeth players will have second thoughts coming to hit him on the forecheck.
I agree with this. players are taking liberties with him. they know he doesnt defend himself properly. so yeah pop someone in the mouth with your stick if players continue to take liberties with him.

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