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Did Halak saved JM's job ?

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06-04-2010, 04:52 PM
  #1
Destoker
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Did Halak saved JM's job ?

First, hi everybody!

I've been an avid reader on these boards for a long time and i tough it was about time to register after our great playoff run this year. It was amazing for all us die hard fans to own such powerhouses as Pittsburgh and Washington!!!!

But it also raises a big question in my mind. What would have happened if Halak hasn't played out of his mind during most of the season and especially in the playoffs?? Would Jacques Martin still have a job next year?

As a NHL coach, you have tons of things to be evaluated on, I'll go with the youngsters and the general system.

Except maybe O'byrne and Pyatt, who progressed well under his wing this year?

Latendresse was not used properly and didn't fit at all with JM, so we shipped him out of town for Benoit Pouliot. He was lighting it up for firsts weeks showing a lot of potential, until he lost all his confidence. JM's best way to handle it was reducing his ice time to 5 minutes a game on the fourth line ( like every young gun who has confidence issue). It looks like Pacioretty was here just to be here, since Sergei was clearly not in JM's soup and he decided to make and example out of him trowing him in hamilton for soso reasons... (even if he was pretty good some games here, he was never in a position to succeed). Patches was not ready at all and we burned any confidence he has in his offensive tools. Lapierre was MIA until the playoffs. Chipchura? Not good enough for us but doing great for Anaheim. D'agostini... okay he sucks lol.

The point is Martin just don't have it with youngsters, seems like he doesn't understand how to handle them. We have a farm full of good prospects but i fear the day they'll meet JM...

The system:

Well, finishing last in 5vs5 goals tells everything. How do you expect to win games if you allow 40 shots a game and while shooting 20? Hope your goalie is gonna makes miracles every night?? Plus how do you expect to have a transition game if everybody stands at 15 feet of our net ?

Pass the red line , dump the puck and chasing/changing is not a transition game and it's clearly not our forte due to our lack of size. The dinosaur coaching style of martin is not appropriate for our type of players. Entering the zone with speed, score of the rush his what we're good at, so we have to be able to use that to our advantage. It seems like our offensive guys don't have the red light to deke people at the blue line cuz if they get caught, they get benched for the turnover. No creativity allowed unless your name it's Gommy, Cammy or Pleky!! JM will always play his veterans whatever happens, he has all confidence in them but its double standards for the young ones i guess..

Guy Boucher is waiting in Hamilton. Here's a guy how has one of the best possible coaching approach with youngsters, he have and offensive system that looks so good in the AHL it will surely translate well in the NHL, plus he's a French-Canadian who worked all year with our farm. I mean he has everything doesn't he?? So we will let him go and have another year of boring hockey / poor development !!! Hooooo Yeahhhhhh


So, what if Halak wasn't superhuman this year? I guess people would want Jacques Martin's head, since he can't develop anyone properly, have and horrible system for our players and we have a gem who's about to get away.

Right?

PS. Sorry for the long post and basic english guys.. second language ^^

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06-04-2010, 04:54 PM
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No.

Hal Gill, PK Subban, Josh Gorges, Mike Cammalleri and Brian Gionta saved JM.

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06-04-2010, 04:55 PM
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Nobody saved his job...JM would still be the coach next year even if we wouldn't have made the playoffs or got eliminated in the 1st round.

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06-04-2010, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
Nobody saved his job...JM would still be the coach next year even if we wouldn't have made the playoffs or got eliminated in the 1st round.
Maybe you're right, but personally who wouldyou prefer has your coach next year? Martin or Boucher?

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06-04-2010, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
No.

Hal Gill, PK Subban, Josh Gorges, Mike Cammalleri and Brian Gionta saved JM.
Lets be real here, without Halak we loose in 5 against Washington. It would have been a blowout everygame, unless Cammy and Gio can do more miracles than they did like scoring 5 goals every game.

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06-04-2010, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destoker View Post
Maybe you're right, but personally who wouldyou prefer has your coach next year? Martin or Boucher?
Martin has coached a very limited team into the 3rd round of the conference. Boucher has been a great coach in his rookie year in the AHL...I'd take the guy who got further at the biggest stage.

I trust Martin.

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06-04-2010, 05:11 PM
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No.

The team was all new, had a tonne of injuries all year and no defined leader. Once they started coming together and buying into Martin's system, they started playing like a team and winning like one.

Martin's job was never at stake either. It's not like he was in a contract year and was about to be fired. They just signed the guy to a 4 year contract and gave him a team with mostly new players. People really have no patience around here.

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06-04-2010, 05:13 PM
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Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
Nobody saved his job...JM would still be the coach next year even if we wouldn't have made the playoffs or got eliminated in the 1st round.
Basically this. I suspect he would have been signed to a shorter term contract if management was even entertaining the possibility of knee-jerk reacting to a bad season and canning him. After all, this isn't a rookie coach of unknown ability here.

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06-04-2010, 05:13 PM
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JM is one of the most tenured coaches in the NHL. Boucher hasn't coached 1 game in the NHL yet. I can't see what kind of argument anybody can come up with that Boucher is better then Martin.

I don't agree with all of Martin's decisions but Boucher hasn't coached even 1 game yet. Juniors, AHL and the NHL are different beasts.

Its no different then saying Kristo is better then Gionta.

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06-04-2010, 05:21 PM
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shutehinside
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Habs Go View Post
JM is one of the most tenured coaches in the NHL. Boucher hasn't coached 1 game in the NHL yet. I can't see what kind of argument anybody can come up with that Boucher is better then Martin.

I don't agree with all of Martin's decisions but Boucher hasn't coached even 1 game yet. Juniors, AHL and the NHL are different beasts.

Its no different then saying Kristo is better then Gionta.
On the Habs board the unknown is ALWAYS better than what we have. Until that is we get it, then that sucks too. I'd give examples but I'd be here ALL day and night.

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06-04-2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destoker View Post
Lets be real here, without Halak we loose in 5 against Washington. It would have been a blowout everygame, unless Cammy and Gio can do more miracles than they did like scoring 5 goals every game.
With Halak we lose to the Flyers in 5, maybe if our goalie would have player just average we would be in ths stanley cup finals. History repeated itself, remember period three Slovakia vs Sweden in the Olympics

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06-04-2010, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ludger View Post
With Halak we lose to the Flyers in 5, maybe if our goalie would have player just average we would be in ths stanley cup finals. History repeated itself, remember period three Slovakia vs Sweden in the Olympics
Oh come on, he was one of the only Habs players that showed up.

Habs didn't lose in five because Halak was less the average, the Habs lost because the team refused to show effort and couldn't match the size and strength of the Flyers.

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06-04-2010, 06:08 PM
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ludger
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Oh come on, he was one of the only Habs players that showed up.

Habs didn't lose in five because Halak was less the average, the Habs lost because the team refused to show effort and couldn't match the size and strength of the Flyers.
He showed up with a save percentage ff .806 in the first two games and .885 for the series, you call that showing up

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06-04-2010, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ludger View Post
He showed up with a save percentage pf >806 in the first two games and 885 for the series, you call that showing uo
So I guess Leighton's three shutouts were based on Leighton standing on his head, right?

Stats... tell... nothing...

Watch the tape over. Defense struggled terribly, forwards couldn't backcheck at all and Philly had way too much depth for Montreal to handle.

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06-04-2010, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Habs Go View Post
JM is one of the most tenured coaches in the NHL. Boucher hasn't coached 1 game in the NHL yet. I can't see what kind of argument anybody can come up with that Boucher is better then Martin.

I don't agree with all of Martin's decisions but Boucher hasn't coached even 1 game yet. Juniors, AHL and the NHL are different beasts.

Its no different then saying Kristo is better then Gionta.
1 big difference. As great a coach you are (like Adams trophy winner), chances are you'll be fired 1 or 2 years after. Yes, coaches are there to implement a system. Yet, they are usually the first fired to try to explain why the GM sucked at getting the right players. From a vet coach to a rookie coach, chances are they all be fired around the same time.

Anyway, you can't fired Martin. Not even if he would have lost in 5 'cause you still owe the guy to work with the new bunch of guys put together this year and with all the injuries, everybody in that organization had the perfect excuse.

But it doesn't mean that personnally I'm not entitle to feel a preference more for Boucher type of coaching than Martin. I've never heard players compliment a coach mroe than what our kids did with Boucher. I've rarely heard other people throughout the league compliment a french coach more than what they did with Boucher (sorry to bring the political argument, but if the Habs and the Nords aren't there, you don't see a whole lot of franco coaches being hired all these years). Yet, with Boucher it goes beyong the language he speaks. He's been having a success story everywhere he went or almost. He's the kinda of coach that communicates....a lot. He brings a new touch to the league. Pretty easy to think that our kids would develop more with Boucher than Martin.

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06-04-2010, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
So I guess Leighton's three shutouts were based on Leighton standing on his head, right?

Stats... tell... nothing...

Watch the tape over. Defense struggled terribly, forwards couldn't backcheck at all and Philly had way too much depth for Montreal to handle.
As you say stats mean nothing. In the Washington and Penguins series, 95% of the shots on Halak were from the perimeter along the boards, maybe it`s; Martin`s system that saved Halak ass

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06-04-2010, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ludger View Post
As you say stats mean nothing. In the Washington and Penguins series, 95% of the shots on Halak were from the perimeter along the boards, maybe it`s; Martin`s system that saved Halak ass
Shots from the perimeter, blocked shots, take your pick really. Washington and Pittsburgh just fired on all cylinders and it wasn't the right strategy.

Philly exposed the Habs for their weakness in the corners and along the boards. Halak played well in all three series, but did show signs of running out of gas by being scored on, with shots he stopped against the likes of Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Crosby, Malkin and so on and so forth.

Martin's system definitely helped Halak's play, but ultimately hurt their chances of beating Philly. Then again, there might not have been a strategy in the textbook that would allow Montreal to beat Philly.

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06-04-2010, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ludger View Post
As you say stats mean nothing. In the Washington and Penguins series, 95% of the shots on Halak were from the perimeter along the boards, maybe it`s; Martin`s system that saved Halak ass
You need a bigger tv, or prescription glasses. The shot charts (for those who didn't actually watch the games) are readily available for everyone to check out, such as:

Game 7 vs Washington

Where you can see that, in fact, 95% of the shots (that hit the net) were actually from closer to the middle of the ice. What that doesn't show, though, is the number of 2nd and 3rd saves that he made to keep the Habs in those games; the replays of which are also readily available from the NHL, the broadcasting networks, and in many places on this board and on the main boards, but I'll provide a sample NHL link to the same game as above.

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06-04-2010, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ludger View Post
As you say stats mean nothing. In the Washington and Penguins series, 95% of the shots on Halak were from the perimeter along the boards, maybe it`s; Martin`s system that saved Halak ass
You didn't watch the games didn't you? Your post is full of fails.

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06-04-2010, 08:13 PM
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You didn't watch the games didn't you? Your post is full of fails.
Yes I watched every minute.

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06-04-2010, 08:35 PM
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It wasn't Martin or the players that saved Martin's job.

It was Kirk Muller.

Martin and the players themselves all stated numerous times throughout the playoffs that Muller's Special Teams PP/PK allowed them to win the series they won.

Look at the bench and it is Muller who is the vocal coach behind the bench, it is Muller talking to the players in a time out...it was Muller who guided this team, it was Muller who saved Martin...and the sad thing is, we could potentially lose Muller to NJ or another team as Head Coach and Boucher too.

Martin wasn't the "X" factor.

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06-04-2010, 08:50 PM
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Maybe you're right, but personally who wouldyou prefer has your coach next year? Martin or Boucher?
Why do I know you're going on RDS forums?

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06-04-2010, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post


It wasn't Martin or the players that saved Martin's job.

It was Kirk Muller.

Martin and the players themselves all stated numerous times throughout the playoffs that Muller's Special Teams PP/PK allowed them to win the series they won.

Look at the bench and it is Muller who is the vocal coach behind the bench, it is Muller talking to the players in a time out...it was Muller who guided this team, it was Muller who saved Martin...and the sad thing is, we could potentially lose Muller to NJ or another team as Head Coach and Boucher too.

Martin wasn't the "X" factor.
Yup, Muller is the sole reason why we shut Crosby Malkin and Ovechkin down. After all, Martin has nothing to do with it and never was an assistant-coach with the Nordiques back in the days, when they were playing a very similar style.

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06-04-2010, 08:54 PM
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Martin didn't need to be ''saved.'' He signed a 4 year contract. He'd still be here even if we finished last.

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06-04-2010, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Destoker View Post
Maybe you're right, but personally who wouldyou prefer has your coach next year? Martin or Boucher?
Martin.

Boucher has coached one year in AHL. He's not ready to coach the Habs.

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