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Old
06-07-2010, 07:49 AM
  #26
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Sharks are full to the gills with goalie prospects..

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06-07-2010, 09:13 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
Do you know how many goalies have even played 42 games as a goalie the last 10 years? 15. Only a handful played 55.
18 goalies played 55 or more games this season, and 20 played more than 50. Two season ago 16 played 55 or more, and 21 played over 50. Not sure where you got your numbers from...

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06-07-2010, 09:23 AM
  #28
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rookie goalies....you were talking about rookie goalies.

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06-07-2010, 09:32 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
rookie goalies....you were talking about rookie goalies.
And how many of those rookie goalies were full time NHL goaltenders that didn't have to clear waivers and sat on the bench?

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06-07-2010, 09:52 AM
  #30
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And how many of those rookie goalies were full time NHL goaltenders that didn't have to clear waivers and sat on the bench?
You are asking how many were full-time goalies and sat on the bench. That's a contradictory question.

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06-07-2010, 09:57 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
You are asking how many were full-time goalies and sat on the bench. That's a contradictory question.
No, it's not. Griess was a full time NHL goaltender this season, and he sat on the bench.

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06-07-2010, 10:26 AM
  #32
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So you want me to get a list of NHL rookie goalies that were in the NHL their full rookie season as a backup during the last decade? Gimmie an hour.

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06-07-2010, 10:36 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
So you want me to get a list of NHL rookie goalies that were in the NHL their full rookie season as a backup during the last decade? Gimmie an hour.
...and didn't need to clear waivers.

Take as long as you want.

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06-07-2010, 10:46 AM
  #34
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Articles from Expressen just aren't reliable news sources. They're a sensationalist paper, and this time they didn't bother fact checking the statement of Greiss' contract status...

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06-07-2010, 10:53 AM
  #35
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Articles from Expressen just aren't reliable news sources. They're a sensationalist paper, and this time they didn't bother fact checking the statement of Greiss' contract status...
So how should we look into the article and statements?

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06-07-2010, 11:08 AM
  #36
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Well, I couldn't figure out which has to clear and didnt, so these are all guys that played more than 15 and less than 40 games in the NHL and less than 6 in the AHL as a rookie:

2000-01
Brent Johnson
Turco
David Aebischer
Denis
Hurme
Esche

2001-2002
Dan Blackburn

2002-2003
Kipper

2003-2004
Fleury

2005-2006
Toivonen
Emery
Cam Ward
Budaj
Sanford
Labarbera
Tellqvist

2007-2008
Harding
Hiller

2009-2010
Varlamov
Greiss

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06-07-2010, 11:31 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirtless Joe View Post
Articles from Expressen just aren't reliable news sources. They're a sensationalist paper, and this time they didn't bother fact checking the statement of Greiss' contract status...
Wasn't there an article in one of the Swedish papers about Wallin going back to Sweden and then it ended up being completely false?

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06-07-2010, 11:43 AM
  #38
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So how should we look into the article and statements?
Well, like people have mentioned in this thread, everything is just speculation at this point and you can't read too much into Henrik's comments. Karlsson wants to play with the Sharks organization, but he has to wait until Sharks management has a clearer picture on what next season will look like.

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06-07-2010, 11:56 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by 210 View Post
If he's not going to play 55+ games in SJ, he'll be in Worcester. No NHL team that has a clue how to develop prospects sits one on the bench when he can further develop without clearing waivers in the AHL.
I don't think we are far off in ideologies. My point was if Nabby is gone, Stalock is one of the two goalies I would expect up and I would expect him to play, unlike Greiss this past season. The team left Stalock in Worcester rather than bringing him up to take rubber in practice during the playoffs, purportedly because they wanted him to experience a long run (development for the next rung). Further, his salary cap hit is team friendly.

You are saying 55 games, and I think the team would bring him up expecting him to have significant playing time but not defining a number of games. Where we disagree is the notion of handing someone a "clear #1 status" in camp. That's a bit of a red-herring and IMO counter to developing a rookie; telling them he is the anointed #1. He will - like most every rookie player, have to earn his time and like all rookie goalies - no matter the hype, will go through streaks in his growth. It's plausible he could come in hot and then hit a wall when shooters adapt, at which point he will rest. So if thats 30-40-50 games that he plays in year one, that's what it will be. If he comes to camp and sticks though, I don't think we will need to concern ourselves with waivers. He wont be sent down.

Final point to pick up on something SJEasy and I have been discussing, neither he nor I like the way TMac overplays goalies. SJ has pointed out several times the SC winning goalies aren't playing 60 games a year. So even if he were fully ready, I would hope TMac gets some sense and doesn't over play him in his rookie campaign.

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06-07-2010, 12:04 PM
  #40
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i do agree with the over playing the goalie... who cares if nabby likes the work its Tmacs team he needed to step up and make nabby sit...

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06-07-2010, 12:55 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by RoundsHansen32 View Post
Sharks are full to the gills with goalie prospects..
Yeah but how many have a chance of being remotely close to Nabokov? And even then, we won't know for at least 2-3 years.

Douglas Murray must have run over DW's dog or something, because I don't see the point in giving up on Zackrisson and Karlsson

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06-07-2010, 01:03 PM
  #42
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Yeah but how many have a chance of being remotely close to Nabokov? And even then, we won't know for at least 2-3 years.

Douglas Murray must have run over DW's dog or something, because I don't see the point in giving up on Zackrisson and Karlsson
nobody thought Nabokov would turn into Nabokov. The simple fact is the Sharks are at a point that these goalie prospects need to play.

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06-07-2010, 01:23 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by TheDanceOfMaternity View Post
Yeah but how many have a chance of being remotely close to Nabokov? And even then, we won't know for at least 2-3 years.

Douglas Murray must have run over DW's dog or something, because I don't see the point in giving up on Zackrisson and Karlsson
I don't think they're giving up on Karlsson, I think he's just heading back for another year.

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06-07-2010, 01:59 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
Well, I couldn't figure out which has to clear and didnt, so these are all guys that played more than 15 and less than 40 games in the NHL and less than 6 in the AHL as a rookie:

2000-01
Brent Johnson 4th year pro, 149 AHL games
Turco 3rd year pro, 111 IHL games
David Aebischer 3rd year pro, 96 AHL games
Denis 3rd year pro, 99 AHL games
Hurme 4th year pro, 125 IHL games
Esche 3rd year pro, 83 pro game

2001-2002
Dan Blackburn #10 over all pick, and wasn't very good because the Rags rushed him to the NHL

2002-2003
Kipper Over 7 pro seasons and over 200 pro games

2003-2004
Fleury The kid played all over the planet that season for like four different teams, so it wasn't like he was sitting that much.

2005-2006
Toivonen 4th year pro, 125 pro games
Emery 4th year pro, 154 AHL games
Cam Ward You get this one
Budaj 4th year pro, 133 pro games
Sanford 5th year pro, over 200 pro games, and he played more games than any other goaltender did for StL that season
Labarbera 6th year pro, over 200 pro games
Tellqvist 6th year pro, over 200 pro games

2007-2008
Harding 4th year pro, 118 AHL games
Hiller 7th year pro, over 200 pro games

2009-2010
Varlamov He was injured...had he not been he would have easily played more than 40.
Greiss 4th year pro, 191 pro games
I only counted regular season games in my total...

So you get Cam Ward and Dan Blackburn (and do you really want Blackburn as that proves rushing a goaltending prospect is not a good thing? ) ...all the rest developed at least three seasons and 100 games in the minor pros before heading to the NHL "full time".

Stalock has one pro season and 60-odd games.

I stand by my statement.

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06-07-2010, 02:17 PM
  #45
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Stalock will be 23 when the season starts. Only 8 of the goalies above were older than 23 in the years listed. The majority were just as old or older. Stalock is a college guy, he doesn't need more time to "grow". It's time.

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06-07-2010, 02:20 PM
  #46
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210,
There is one factor for Stalock. He is a college goaltender who signed at a later age. There is a lower limit to the number of games before he hits the waiver issue. I wish we could go back through that list and look for later age signing goaltenders, not necessarily NCAA. Stalock won't hit the waiver issue next year.

I have noticed that teams are pushing the limits on waivers for goaltenders, trying to get extra development time by using emergency recall for a year or two after the prospect becomes waiver eligible and finally granting him a spot in the show in the off-season so as to avoid the issue.

Off the top of my head, one guy who I don't think had to clear that wasn't on the list was Price and he was intended as a starter (>50 games). Elliot was another guy who may not have had to clear. Elliot might be a good comparable to Stalock as he came up through the college ranks.

On Blackburn, I thought he had a career ending injury. That may have affected whether he ultimately panned out or not.

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06-07-2010, 02:30 PM
  #47
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Stalock won't hit the waiver issue next year.
Which is the reason he'll either be the clear cut #1 in SJ or will be in Worcester...

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06-07-2010, 02:31 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
Stalock will be 23 when the season starts. Only 8 of the goalies above were older than 23 in the years listed. The majority were just as old or older. Stalock is a college guy, he doesn't need more time to "grow". It's time.
And if it's not "his time" he'll be in Worcester, which is EXACTLY what I've been saying.

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06-07-2010, 02:41 PM
  #49
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I'm really unclear why they didn't give Greiss more playtime this season, so who the heck knows what the Shark's are going to do...

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06-07-2010, 03:07 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 210 View Post
Which is the reason he'll either be the clear cut #1 in SJ or will be in Worcester...
One other piece of food for thought. When I went back through the draft success study, I found that almost all goalies had a shot at starter at some point, usually early in their careers (a few times not). There was only one guy who had any type of length to his career (greater than 5-7 years and consistently in the NHL) who never was more than a backup, Jamie McLennan. It indirectly supports your stance.

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