HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Notices

Rutherford: Whitney unlikely to sign with Canes

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-14-2010, 01:21 PM
  #276
Jag68Sid87
Registered User
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 26,834
vCash: 500
Well, Darren Dreger is related to Dave Nonis, so I tend to believe rumors involving some kind of link between Vancouver and Toronto.

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2010, 04:15 PM
  #277
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Mod Powers
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fangorn
Country: United States
Posts: 24,543
vCash: 500
I wouldn't put it past Burke to tamper via Toronto media. Easily and plausible denied and he's the kind of guy that will do whatever it takes to win. After the Penner thing he probably figures "FU all; I'm doing what I want... I have access to the Toronto media, I'm floating whatever rumors I want." Heh.

Darth Vitale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2010, 05:28 PM
  #278
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Great Play Orpik!
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 40,168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
The only guy we've had like that since Malone is Bill Guerin who can hardly move and is now 40 years old. What I am saying is that if we have a big man who will actually go in front of that cage and battle instead of waiting for a puck with his RH stick on the ice to the left of the goal, the skill level of the guy in question doesn't have to be very high. He doesn't have to play on the top6 either, just like Buf hasn't been a top6 player for the Hawks much, because he just isn't that good 5 on 5.
I believe the guy you want is much harder to find than you think, and I'll believe Taylor Pyatt can be a successful PP catalyst when I see it.

As of right now, he's a forward who produces like Orpik.

Quote:
I give Buf all sorts of credit for what he did to close this seasons playoffs, but considering him a premier big man/in front of the net guy... to me that is as premature as it was thinking Talbot would be a top6 player after last year.
Buff isn't cemented as a premier big man, but he played at that level in the playoffs and there's no reason why Chicago shouldn't stick with him in that role given what he's shown, given that none of the other big men on their roster have been nearly as good it, and given that there are similarly expensive Blackhawks with more superfluous skillsets.

Quote:
We'll see, and maybe you're right.... but I think Franzen is twice as good as a hockey player than Buf is. Chicago had a team that was absolutely loaded. Many guys will come to look good with a specialist skill when helped by that kind of team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippo View Post
Let's not get carried away.

While the "out of nowhere" aspect of it seems familiar, and they're both big dudes, Franzen has a much better skillset and he's in much better shape.

You could call Buff a "poor man's Franzen" and it would be more accurate.
"Parallel" doesn't necessarily mean exact qualitative value, guys. To get all dictionary on ya, parallel in this context meant "Having comparable parts, analogous aspects, or readily recognized similarities".

Quote:
Of course he has. That's why I point it out . When he was actually in that role on Vancouver with the Sedin's, he produced just as much with about the same amount of time on the PP as what Buf has done for the Hawks these past two years. Difference is the playoff success Buf just had, but... you cannot compare those Vancouver teams with these Hawks teams. Their ES production is almost identical in latter seasons also, despite Buf getting more ice-time with significantly better players.
The playoffs - the past two years, really - are what have given Buff his reputation and value. Taking those away, you could compare him with any big fellow who put up 30 points, but I don't think it's fair to devalue Buff's contributions when it counts because he's on a very good team. His production and the amount of attention given to him from opposing teams suggest that he's a big reason why his team was so good.

Quote:
I am not saying Pyatt is as good, nor that it is really close. Its not to pimp my Pyatt idea that hard, it is just an example. I am simply saying that what we need for the PP is one who is on that doorstep + able to win some battles behind the cage. Pyatt did both against the Wings, and he has been doing so consistently many times when I've watched the Coyotes this season (a pet fancy of mine).
Ideally - we want to get that kind of addition on the cheap. Pyatt would be.
I'm not even completely against the Pyatt idea. If we splurge on one good vet winger and bolstering our d, I'd be fine with him as a cost-effective complementary guy.

Quote:
Buf will be more of a guarantee - on the PP at least - but he is simply not a good 5 on 5 player. He wouldn't be an upgrade on this seasons Guerin 5 on 5. Seriously. I don't want to pay 3 million+ per year for that.
Hey now...Buff at least has speed and hands in his favour.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2010, 06:09 PM
  #279
oshjo75
 
oshjo75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 187
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
People need to quit using neon green.
Hey, I used yellow prior to green. You should thank me.

oshjo75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2010, 08:13 PM
  #280
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 12,717
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippo View Post
I wouldn't put it past Burke to tamper via Toronto media. Easily and plausible denied and he's the kind of guy that will do whatever it takes to win. After the Penner thing he probably figures "FU all; I'm doing what I want... I have access to the Toronto media, I'm floating whatever rumors I want." Heh.
Exactly. I mean it's just a theory but I don't really recall TSN and such being so tapped into Burke when he was with the Ducks, or JFJR when he was with the Leafs for that matter.

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 06:05 AM
  #281
Tender Rip
No cap on coaching!
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
The playoffs - the past two years, really - are what have given Buff his reputation and value. Taking those away, you could compare him with any big fellow who put up 30 points, but I don't think it's fair to devalue Buff's contributions when it counts because he's on a very good team. His production and the amount of attention given to him from opposing teams suggest that he's a big reason why his team was so good.

I'm not even completely against the Pyatt idea. If we splurge on one good vet winger and bolstering our d, I'd be fine with him as a cost-effective complementary guy.
Its not like we really disagree, I think. What you say at the end here is what I have been arguing for all along .

As for the Buf playoff thing above.... Buf went 8 games without no points to start these playoffs. Then exploded. That means all of the regular season and 8 playoff games worth of relative suckage considering that he costs 3+ a year. That's 90 games of mediocre - vs. 14 very good ones to end the season.
I DO appreciate his particular value, but I think one will be paying a major additional price for him having played in the best possible situation he could. He is a limited player surrounded with all aces. Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Versteeg bringing the skill the forwards, and an excellent group of puck-moving defensemen.

I mean - when you look at what Guerin delivered statswise for the Pens in these last two playoffs, you get 9 goals and 25 points in 33 games, with him being +11. Buf had 14 goals and 25 points in 38 games, while being a -6.
In those corresponding regular seasons, Guerin has delivered 50+ percent more than Buf, and I think we can agree those stats are lying if they indicate that he has been a big success. Just the same as Buf's crazy goal scoring run is a very dodgy indicator, because most the time, he is worth half of what he is paid, tops.

If Byfuglien builds on this and become Franzen-like... OK, you're right. Sure. But if he is the player we've come to know over the past two seasons... then his success is the product of being the only big man among a kick-ass creative ensemble offense. A part that is really dodgy defensively, and streaky as few guys in the NHL. That'd be OK on our team as well - but not if he's paid to carry his own weight.
Again - Max Talbot last season had one point before being moved to Geno's wing in game three against Washington. In the last 14 games of the playoffs, he had 7 goals and 5 assists, playing with a God-like Malkin and a Fedotenko finding the form of his life. It doesn't mean Talbot is a guy you can count on to produce. At least not to the extent that you actually pay him the dollars one would otherwise pay a guy expected to produce.

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 12:05 PM
  #282
Chili Goal 2
Registered User
 
Chili Goal 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 74
vCash: 500
FWIW, LeBrun reporting that Whitney will indeed test FA:

http://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun

Chili Goal 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 12:13 PM
  #283
Happy Kadri
#happykadri
 
Happy Kadri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Peterborough, ONT
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili Goal View Post
FWIW, LeBrun reporting that Whitney will indeed test FA:

http://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun
Where some desperate team will over pay the old man...

Happy Kadri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 12:26 PM
  #284
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geno View Post
Where some desperate team will over pay the old man...
Let's hope the Pens are that desperate team.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 01:53 PM
  #285
OnMyOwn
Extremist
 
OnMyOwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: State College
Country: United States
Posts: 8,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Let's hope the Pens are that desperate team.
haha what i was thinking... i would go 3.5 for 2 years max.

OnMyOwn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 02:15 PM
  #286
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 20,253
vCash: 500
I'm going to be very disappointed if we don't sign him.

wej20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 02:38 PM
  #287
LAPenguin
Registered User
 
LAPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: Jordan
Posts: 383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili Goal View Post
FWIW, LeBrun reporting that Whitney will indeed test FA:

http://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun
Lebrun makes a good point; Whitney will be a backup plan for many teams. If Shero wants him, he can likely get him if we contact him early.

LAPenguin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:01 PM
  #288
Happy Kadri
#happykadri
 
Happy Kadri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Peterborough, ONT
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Let's hope the Pens are that desperate team.
Lets hope not...we need real wings, not bandaids to plug holes for a couple years.

And to whoever said 3.5 for 2 years? I hope you meant spread over 2 years...hes 38 years old had 58 points last night. NOT impressive.

Happy Kadri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:03 PM
  #289
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geno View Post
Lets hope not...we need real wings, not bandaids to plug holes for a couple years.

And to whoever said 3.5 for 2 years? I hope you meant spread over 2 years...hes 38 years old had 58 points last night. NOT impressive.
Are you drunk?

JTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:14 PM
  #290
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geno View Post
Lets hope not...we need real wings, not bandaids to plug holes for a couple years.
You really don't know what you are talking about.. srry bro.

Quote:
hes 38 years old had 58 points last night
Was he playing agt. you in some beer league?

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:25 PM
  #291
Happy Kadri
#happykadri
 
Happy Kadri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Peterborough, ONT
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Are you drunk?
No. Just not lovestruck over a 38 year old in his twilight years. Hes not getting any better.

Happy Kadri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:29 PM
  #292
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geno View Post
No. Just not lovestruck over a 38 year old in his twilight years. Hes not getting any better.
He doesn't need to get any better - that's the point.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:34 PM
  #293
Sidney the Kidney
Selke BylsmAdams
 
Sidney the Kidney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,840
vCash: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geno View Post
No. Just not lovestruck over a 38 year old in his twilight years. Hes not getting any better.
You do realize that his 58 points (on a pathetically inept Carolina offense) are still a good margin better than any of our wingers put up last year playing alongside Sid and Geno, right?

Sidney the Kidney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:35 PM
  #294
Happy Kadri
#happykadri
 
Happy Kadri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Peterborough, ONT
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
He doesn't need to get any better - that's the point.
Yes, but he will get worse. Hes 38. Whether hes with Sid or not, committing 2 years to a 38 year old who is only capable of a 50 point season is pretty stupid.

There are other alternatives (though some are risky) that would cost less and have similar results. Why not go with them?

Happy Kadri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:41 PM
  #295
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 20,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geno View Post
Lets hope not...we need real wings, not bandaids to plug holes for a couple years.

And to whoever said 3.5 for 2 years? I hope you meant spread over 2 years...hes 38 years old had 58 points last night. NOT impressive.
Only 5 of the UFA forwards put more points than Whitney and only 5 put up more goals (not counting Selanne as he'll only play for the Ducks)

wej20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:44 PM
  #296
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geno View Post
No. Just not lovestruck over a 38 year old in his twilight years. Hes not getting any better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geno View Post
Yes, but he will get worse. Hes 38. Whether hes with Sid or not, committing 2 years to a 38 year old who is only capable of a 50 point season is pretty stupid.

There are other alternatives (though some are risky) that would cost less and have similar results. Why not go with them?
He doesn't have to get better. He has a good 2 years of game left, I'd say, and with him on our 1st line and powerplay, he's a 30 goal, 60-70 point player. We only need him for a couple years. That's the beauty of the whole situation.

And "only" 50 points? A 50 point winger would be a welcomed addition right now.

JTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:48 PM
  #297
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 20,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geno View Post
Yes, but he will get worse. Hes 38. Whether hes with Sid or not, committing 2 years to a 38 year old who is only capable of a 50 point season is pretty stupid.

There are other alternatives (though some are risky) that would cost less and have similar results. Why not go with them?
I'd love to here these alternatives.

wej20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:50 PM
  #298
Hottubber
Registered User
 
Hottubber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,624
vCash: 500
I think Pens getting Whitney is a win win for both sides. Whitney will play top 2 lines with the top 2 Centers in the world and have a chance to win.

Whoever said we dont need plug-in guys or band-aids is wrong. Thats what we need until the guys in the minors getting developed (like Tangradi - who should not be on the top 2 lines next year) actually have time to do so.

I dont believe whitney is strictly out for the money. he wont play for league min either. I would think a 2 year 2.5M per would be pretty close to what he gets

Hottubber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:52 PM
  #299
Eleven
Solid As The Sun
 
Eleven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 952
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Eleven Send a message via AIM to Eleven
Another year, another thread about some old dude who can help a young team.

Eleven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2010, 03:56 PM
  #300
Hottubber
Registered User
 
Hottubber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevener View Post
Another year, another thread about some old dude who can help a young team.

except Whitney doesnt play like an old man. Did you see him after the NHL season playing for Canada? I dont think he looked to burnt out after a full season. Whitney isnt the next Billy G. He still has some great wheels (which is usually the first thing to go)

Hottubber is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:26 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.