HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Minnesota Wild
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Wild's Fletcher has his work cut out for him

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-09-2010, 10:33 AM
  #26
Jbcraig1883
Registered User
 
Jbcraig1883's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Louisville, KY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Let's not trade a Dman. We'll make a hole by filling another.

The cap next year will be around $58.8 million. If Stoner is the #6 Dman, and we bring in another cheap #7, our entire blueline will be less that 17.5 milllion cap hit. Despite all the Schultz haters, that is actually low for a blueline. And considering that it's actually a good line, that is great news.

The issue has, and will be, our forwards. And right now, the only solution is UFAs.

Option 1: (Healthly Bouchard) Sign Kovalchuk (8m/year) (while trading Miettinen for a cheap 4th line forward). We have the cap space. Get it done. Bouchard becomes a center.

Option 2: (Heathly Bouchard) Sign Plekanec (5m/year) and Jokinen (3.5m/year) (while trading Mittens for a 4th liner). Bouchard becomes Jokinen's RW.

Option 3: (Unhealthly Bouchard) With 4 million more in cap space, you go for gold. Trade away Mittens for 4th liner. Try to sign Kovalchuk (with 7.75 m/year cap hit, 10 years)and Plekanec (4.75 m/year, 6 years) to a very long term deals. If you can get those cap hits to those numbers, you will still have 0.5m - 1m cap space, depending on which bottom liners you use.

Option 3: (Nuclear Option) Get Backstrom to waive no-trade clause. Use all the cap space to sign big UFAs and get somebody back in trade.


1. What makes you believe that Kovy would sign here for 8 per year? He has been offered more by Atlanta and also has the KHL offering quite a bit more...

2. Is Plekanec worth that much after having one strong season?


I don't think this is the off-season that is going to make us perennial contenders. Plus, rarely are teams built through free agency. If we were one or two players away from contending, I may agree, but we are not even close yet.

I understand that Schultz might be underrated but the hole that would be created if he were to be traded is closer to being filled by Scandella/Cuma/Prosser/Faulk than the hole up front. We have depth on D and none up front so it is logical that is why CF is shopping Schultz...he has value and there is depth at his position.

Jbcraig1883 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 10:34 AM
  #27
nickschultzfan
Registered User
 
nickschultzfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by saywut View Post
I really don't get why people think we have a good blueline.
Zidlicky - Fringe top-4/PPQB
Burns - Top-4, but has never played top-pairing quality consistently
Zanon - Complimentary top-4 at best
Schultz - Same as Zanon, though is worse in our coaches books
Barker - Fringe-NHLer living off his draft hype and high production for 1 year on a stacked team
Stoner - Should be our #7 given his contract

And based on that, we simply can't move Burns, as he is our only hope to get elite play out of this season.

We're definitely not getting Kovalchuk or Plekanec, and I highly doubt Jokinen. But keep on saying it if it makes you feel better...
Because despite your subjective interpretations of our blueline, it's still better than most the league.

nickschultzfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 10:44 AM
  #28
nickschultzfan
Registered User
 
nickschultzfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,060
vCash: 500
It's fine if you don't think Kovalchuk is coming to the Wild.

But he's not going back to Atlanta. And if he goes to Russia, then it becomes moot, so who cares. And most the teams with cap space are actually worse than us.

So, ask yourself this, if doesn't go to Russia, and if he isn't going back to Atlanta, which NHL teams both want and are able to sign him? When you stop and think for a second, it's actually a very short list of teams, and the Wild are on that list.

nickschultzfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 10:58 AM
  #29
Jarick
Moderator
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 23,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by banana phone View Post
3.6 is a standard cap hit for a reliable top four guy. Don't see the issue w/ Schultz? Trading Burns would be foolish - selling low is never a good idea.
Schultz isn't a top four guy though, he's a bottom pairing guy.

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 11:01 AM
  #30
UMD05
Hobey Baker Champs
 
UMD05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St. Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
It's fine if you don't think Kovalchuk is coming to the Wild.

But he's not going back to Atlanta. And if he goes to Russia, then it becomes moot, so who cares. And most the teams with cap space are actually worse than us.

So, ask yourself this, if doesn't go to Russia, and if he isn't going back to Atlanta, which NHL teams both want and are able to sign him? When you stop and think for a second, it's actually a very short list of teams, and the Wild are on that list.

Off the top of my head...

LA, Colorado, St. Louis

UMD05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 11:03 AM
  #31
Surly Furious
Registered User
 
Surly Furious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: frozen north
Posts: 6,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Schultz isn't a top four guy though, he's a bottom pairing guy.
I'd disagree there Jarick. Middle pairing ideally. Bottom is more like Scott or Hnidy.

Surly Furious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 11:12 AM
  #32
Jarick
Moderator
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 23,967
vCash: 500
Here's the big difference between Burns and Koivu though, and I frankly can't believe so many of you are saying if you sell Burns you have to sell Koivu too.

- Koivu has led the team in points the last two years. Burns had a very good year two years ago, but hasn't been able to stay healthy enough to be that guy again.

- Koivu has been one of the best players on most nights. Burns has been very hit or miss the last couple years.

- Koivu has gotten better every year. Burns' best year was two years ago.

- Koivu makes his linemates way better than they should be. Burns requires a defensive pairing guy to make up for his mistakes.


I'm not trying to bash Burns here, but if someone wants to give us a couple good assets for him, I say we take it. His best strength is rushing the puck up the ice, but how many teams are truly built to take advantage of that? It seems this team has benefited much more from a Johnsson type puck mover than a Burns type puck rusher. Maybe it will be different next year, but we'd have to have a big roster makeover in order to utilize his speed.

The only real way I can see Burns becoming that bona fide #1 guy is if he can turn into a Duncan Keith type defenseman, where he picks his spots, makes a great pass, uses his fantastic skating to constantly prowl in his end, etc. But at 24 years old and 7 years in the league, is he capable of changing his game at this point? Or would it make more sense to bring in a top asset or two up front and see how Scandella, Cuma, Prosser, and/or Stoner can do for this lineup?

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 11:13 AM
  #33
Jarick
Moderator
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 23,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
I'd disagree there Jarick. Middle pairing ideally. Bottom is more like Scott or Hnidy.
Richards disagrees, Schultz was a #5/6 guy last year in terms of ice time and even strength situations. He's a bottom pairing and PK guy. Burns, Johnsson, Barker, Zanon, Zidlicky, and even Prosser were playing more minutes.

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 11:30 AM
  #34
GopherState
Repeat Offender...
 
GopherState's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: X Marks The Spot
Posts: 22,823
vCash: 500
I get your point, but Prosser got garbage time minutes at the end of the year when the team was in freefall mode. That's sort of like saying Kevin Love is not a starter in the NBA and must come off the bench.

__________________
Blog: First Round Bust: A Cast of Thousands celebrating a rather dodgy track record of Minnesota Wild Drafting.

"Will beats skill when skill doesn't have enough will."
-Doug Woog
1974 1976 1979 2002 2003 2014?
GopherState is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 11:40 AM
  #35
Kari Takko
Registered User
 
Kari Takko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: North Metro, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 924
vCash: 500
It's ridiculous to number the defensemen. Schultz is a great PK defenseman and very solid 5 on 5, but he doesn't start a lot of offense. The dip in his minutes might have a lot to do with the fact that we played from behind all season long.

Schultz can match up very well against a team's top scorer. His contract isn't ideal, but it's not outrageous either. The problem is that we have Zanon for less money, so that makes Schultz redundant.

Cam Barker is not a fringe NHLer. He lost confidence last year after his PT took a big hit. If he's able to regain some of that swagger, we stole a top pairing defenseman.

We shouldn't trade Burns. The more I've thought about this, the more I'm against it. He's a fan favorite, and we're getting rid of Boogaard. He's got the most potential of any player on our roster, so a move could really bite us in the behind.

Kari Takko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 11:46 AM
  #36
State of Hockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 11,191
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Schultz isn't a top four guy though, he's a bottom pairing guy.
He's an ideal 2nd-pairing D-man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Richards disagrees, Schultz was a #5/6 guy last year in terms of ice time and even strength situations. He's a bottom pairing and PK guy. Burns, Johnsson, Barker, Zanon, Zidlicky, and even Prosser were playing more minutes.
That's because Richards is an terrible coach. Look at ice time when Lemaire ran the ship. He knew what to do with Schultz.

Schultz still got 21 minutes a game under Richards, which is #3/#4/#5 territory. Prosser played less and isn't a comparable anyway,

State of Hockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 11:52 AM
  #37
UMD05
Hobey Baker Champs
 
UMD05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St. Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 576
vCash: 500
This is how I see the roster:


XXXXX - Koivu - XXXXX
Latendresse - XXXXX - Havlat (NTC)
XXXXX - XXXXX - XXXXX
XXXXX - XXXXX - XXXXX

Burns - XXXXX
Zidlicky (NTC) - XXXXX
XXXXX - XXXXX

Backstrom (NTC)
XXXXX


- 3 players I wouldn't trade, barring a stellar offer

- 3 players I can't trade without a waived NTC.

- Every prospect is an asset. All college FA's included here.

I'm not saying I'd trade everybody else on the roster, just that I wouldn't hesitate to include any of them in a deal.


Last edited by UMD05: 06-09-2010 at 12:04 PM.
UMD05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 12:00 PM
  #38
this providence
Chips in Bed Theorem
 
this providence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Paul
Posts: 9,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
He knew what to do with Schultz.
And that was what? Hide him by pairing him with Johnsson? The Wild's best defensive defenseman by a good margin.

this providence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 12:11 PM
  #39
nickschultzfan
Registered User
 
nickschultzfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UMD Bob View Post
Off the top of my head...

LA, Colorado, St. Louis
There is ample discussion on how all three of these locations would NOT be a good location for Kovalchuk. And out of those three, LA and St. Loius wouldn't offer any more than the Wild.

Unless some team acts completely irrationally and throws out a mega contract just for the press buzz, there will only be a handful of teams giving contract offers to Kovalchuk, and they will be in the 7.5-8.25 million range. Even Atlanta will have to scale back their offer from what they gave previously.

So, it's not unreasonable to expect Kovalchuk to sign some 10-year, 78 million dollar deal.

nickschultzfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 12:11 PM
  #40
bozak911
Ignoring Idiots
 
bozak911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by this providence View Post
And that was what? Hide him by pairing him with Johnsson? The Wild's best defensive defenseman by a good margin.
Didn't Lemaire use Burns and Schultz together a lot more than Schultz/Johnsson?

Johnsson was out there more often than not with Zidlicky or Bergeron.

Oh, and hai.

bozak911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 12:16 PM
  #41
nickschultzfan
Registered User
 
nickschultzfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by this providence View Post
And that was what? Hide him by pairing him with Johnsson? The Wild's best defensive defenseman by a good margin.
And if you pair Schultz with Burns, we'll have a good top-line pair. Or pair him with Stoner and we'll have a good shut-down pair.

nickschultzfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 12:20 PM
  #42
GopherState
Repeat Offender...
 
GopherState's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: X Marks The Spot
Posts: 22,823
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
Didn't Lemaire use Burns and Schultz together a lot more than Schultz/Johnsson?

Johnsson was out there more often than not with Zidlicky or Bergeron.

Oh, and hai.
Welcome!

And yes, although this is Jacque Lemaire's ADD line changes we are talking about.

GopherState is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 12:24 PM
  #43
this providence
Chips in Bed Theorem
 
this providence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Paul
Posts: 9,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
Didn't Lemaire use Burns and Schultz together a lot more than Schultz/Johnsson?

Johnsson was out there more often than not with Zidlicky or Bergeron.

Oh, and hai.
Welcome. Great to see more Wild fans here.

Based on my memory, I remember Lemaire playing Burns with Skoula every chance he could possibly get. Used to drive me nuts in fact. He did pair Burns with Schultz as well as far as I can remember. But Johnsson and Schultz were his go-to pairing. He'd mix up the pairings according to situations.

this providence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 12:35 PM
  #44
mnwildgophers
Registered User
 
mnwildgophers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: MN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,497
vCash: 500
I just don't see any way that Kovalchuk would want to sign here as we are not close to a cup at all, while signing Kovalchuk would help, do we really think he would want to sign here as we haven't made the playoffs the last 2 years? I presume he wants to be on a team that has a pretty good shot at making the playoffs, which, we don't really have a shot with our current roster.

mnwildgophers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 12:37 PM
  #45
State of Hockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 11,191
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by this providence View Post
And that was what? Hide him by pairing him with Johnsson? The Wild's best defensive defenseman by a good margin.
You don't "hide" a player by throwing him up against top lines. Schultz usually saw the most PK minutes under JL as well. It's not all coincidence that our defense under that configuration was near the top of the league.

Hnidy was hidden behind Schultz last year. That's hiding someone.

State of Hockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 12:48 PM
  #46
bozak911
Ignoring Idiots
 
bozak911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,911
vCash: 500
I wish there was a way to tell for sure. Looking at the box score for a random game doesn't really tell me anything solid.

Quote:
M. Zidlicky D 0 0 0 0 2 4 17:05 2:49 0:00 19:54
B. Burns D 1 0 1 -2 0 5 18:10 2:17 2:45 23:12
K. Johnsson D 0 0 0 -1 0 2 17:45 2:08 0:59 20:52
M. Skoula D 0 0 0 0 0 1 17:56 0:12 1:15 19:23
M. Bergeron D 0 0 0 0 2 0 13:10 2:31 0:16 15:57
N. Schultz D 0 0 0 -1 0 0 18:34 0:00 2:45 21:19

I could be confusing 5 v 5 time versus short handed. Burns/Schultz had the same (or very close) short handed ice time in the random 08 box scores I looked through.

/shrug

I think the reason why Schultz is more trade bait than Burns (not that I agree with it) is that we have to look at what the Wild have versus what other teams need.

There are more than 10 plus teams that need a player like Schultz that can easily absorb and be happy with, his contract.

Unfortunately, there are also a lot of free agents that can fill that role, but they are going to be more expensive. Combine that with the amount of defensemen that will be "on the move" it really becomes more like the goalie situation and our pipe dreams of moving Harding.


Quote:
Hnidy was hidden behind Schultz last year. That's hiding someone.
Hnidy was paired with Johnsson a lot before the trade and then Schultz. So yes, that is how you hide someone.

Frankly, even wanting to trade Schultz with the D we have inked makes me shudder. Porous much? (Stupid Zidlicky extension and raise...)

bozak911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 12:50 PM
  #47
Kari Takko
Registered User
 
Kari Takko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: North Metro, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 924
vCash: 500
Hockey coaches play the guys they trust, and sometimes the players they trust completely befuddle the fanbase.

Jacque Lemaire loved Martin Skoula, and that made no sense to me.

Todd Richards doesn't trust Nick Schultz to generate points, and since the team trailed most of the season, Schultz's TOI suffered. But for S & Gs, let's look at the TOI stats for our defense.

Zidlicky 24:10
Johnsson 23:46
Burns 22:22
Zanon 22:22
Barker 22:01
Schultz 20:58

You are all arguing like there's a huge discrepancy between the defensemen. I'd say that's a pretty consistent defense rotation. This TOI doesn't prove/disprove that Schultz is/isn't worth his contract.

Kari Takko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 12:52 PM
  #48
this providence
Chips in Bed Theorem
 
this providence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Paul
Posts: 9,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
You don't "hide" a player by throwing him up against top lines. Schultz usually saw the most PK minutes under JL as well. It's not all coincidence that our defense under that configuration was near the top of the league.
Being atop of the league in defensive categories was much more about Lemaire than any pairing Nick Schultz was being used in. Let's not play revisionist history here. If Schultz and the defense on a whole was truly top tier, they would have proved as much in a different system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Hnidy was hidden behind Schultz last year. That's hiding someone.
And just as you used your 'you do not hide players against top lines', same case could be made here. Lets not act as if Schultz and Hnidy played against any meaningful opposition. Playing as poorly as they did against the bottom two lines is as much of a black mark as any.

this providence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 01:23 PM
  #49
saywut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Because despite your subjective interpretations of our blueline, it's still better than most the league.
My problem is we don't have a true #1 d-man. And don't give me the Burns crap, he hasn't shown anything consistent enough to consider him a #1 d-man. Zidlicky is near a liability defensively, and Zanon/Barker/Stoner are poor(and in Barker's case, extremely poor) skaters.

saywut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-09-2010, 02:01 PM
  #50
Kari Takko
Registered User
 
Kari Takko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: North Metro, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 924
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by saywut View Post
My problem is we don't have a true #1 d-man. And don't give me the Burns crap, he hasn't shown anything consistent enough to consider him a #1 d-man. Zidlicky is near a liability defensively, and Zanon/Barker/Stoner are poor(and in Barker's case, extremely poor) skaters.
Define #1 D-man for me. Identify guys who fit your definition, and then average their salaries.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that with Bouchard's albatross contract and Parrish's buyout, we've got 5mil that's just sitting there. That'd pay for a #1 guy or a top-6 forward.

Keep in mind, this article was written about our strength at D and how we might leverage that to improve our forward depth.

Kari Takko is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:37 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.