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Official Rumor Thread--Kings Rumor Mill IV

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Old
06-16-2010, 01:51 PM
  #251
Sydor25
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Also, the Chicago only model only works if you have top tier talent on their ELC. You can't win with the scoring depth of Chicago with 23+ year old players.

Bernier, Doughty and Simmonds only have 1 year left on their ELC. Maybe next year is the right time to swing for the fences.

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06-16-2010, 01:54 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Lars H View Post
Well no. You're honing in on that. I'm suggesting there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Improving 5-on-5 scoring is not the point -- winning more hockey games is. If the latter can be achieved more efficiently via non-Kovalchuk means, then that's the way to do it.
Well there's my hitch. I think adding Kovalchuk and one mid-level defensemen gives us the best chance to win more games. Certainly better than adding a slightly higher paid defenseman and a vastly inferior forward (because lets face it, there simply are no forwards available nearly as good as Kovalchuk).

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06-16-2010, 01:55 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Since when are the Kings a bad defensive team? The only defensive problem has been the low save percentage from their goalie. The Kings 5-on-5 defense was top 5 in the league with Jones in the lineup for half of the season. How hard is it to replace Jones?
Jones, despite his unreliability, was in the lineup because the team didn't have enough puck-moving defenseman. Jones is easy to replace. Filling the need isn't.

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Old
06-16-2010, 01:56 PM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars H View Post
Well no. You're honing in on that. I'm suggesting there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Improving 5-on-5 scoring is not the point -- winning more hockey games is. If the latter can be achieved more efficiently via non-Kovalchuk means, then that's the way to do it.
Well, we can just roll the dice and hope that Quick and Bernier can make up for the loss of Frolov, the poor 5-on-5 offense and squeeze out a few extra wins. This way we can have almost $10 million in cap space. Cap Space FTW!

Or we can spend $5+ million for a top 4 defenseman and then wish we hadn't because we are going to trade Voynov, Muzzin and/or Hickey due to cap problems and having too many of the same type of player.

A top 3 forward is the biggest need for the Kings franchise and there just happens to be one available at 27 years of age. Kovalchuk is one of the most consistent goal scorers the NHL has ever seen. He is available for cash and can easily be part of the core for 5+ years.

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06-16-2010, 01:57 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Thrice View Post
Bang on post, right here.

I still the think the Kings roster needs a skill infusion but the Blackhawks just showed how depth trumps Superstars.

(1) 30 goal scorer - Kane
(5) 20 goal scorers - Sharp, Toews, Hossa, Versteeg, Brouwer
(2) 17 goal scorers - Byfuglien, Ladd

1 Norris Trophy candidate - Duncan Keith
1 Shutdown D-man - Brent Seabrook
2 puck movers - Hjalmarsson, Campbell

And a slew of role players all equaled the Stanley Cup. There isn't a "Top 5" player in the bunch.

Come on. You don't think Kane, Toews, Hossa and Keith can be considered stars? Give me a break..

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06-16-2010, 02:01 PM
  #256
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Fransson could easily be Jones replacement for next season and his cap hit will be below $1 million. Hickey, Voynov or Muzzin could replace O'Donnell and play with Greene.

Then the Kings could roll 4 defensemen on the PP and not have to suffer Stoll on the point.

That could give the Kings 3 puck moving defenseman plus Johnson. Scuderi and Greene are the stay at home defenseman. The only thing missing is a top 3 forward.

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06-16-2010, 02:05 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Lars H View Post
Haven't seen him enough to know if he's a good defensive player or not, but I'll take your word for it. Is he better defensively than the type of defenseman Lombardi is suggesting; a reliable puck-mover*? Probably not.

Does Kovalchuk bring enough scoring that the team doesn't need to upgrade its defense? Will the additional regular season scoring carry over into the playoffs?

Or will the team be better off -- in terms of winning in the post season -- by foregoing some 5-on-5 regular season scoring (improving to Top 10, say, instead of Top 5), and also getting better defensively?

---------------
*Assuming such a player exists and is available this summer. Even if he isn't, do you commit to Kovalchuk for 7-10 years or whatever rather than wait a year or two for one of your prospects to pan out or the right FA to hit the market?
You're assuming we can't sign both. We can add Kovy AND a reliable puck moving d-man if need be. None of us know what we have in this Franssen kid we just signed but from the sounds of it, he's exactly what you're talking about. Getting a reliable puck moving d-man doesn't mean we have to find one that's a $4 million cap hit. And DL also said he thinks we CAN wait for one of our prospects and see if they're the right fit, so he will most likely get some offense this year instead.

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06-16-2010, 02:06 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
That could give the Kings 3 puck moving defenseman plus Johnson. Scuderi and Greene are the stay at home defenseman. The only thing missing is a top 3 forward.
IMO with Fro gone, we'll need 2

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06-16-2010, 02:09 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
IMO with Fro gone, we'll need 2
Kovalchuk and Ray Whitney. Done. We have the cap space to sign both.

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06-16-2010, 02:10 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
IMO with Fro gone, we'll need 2
Nah:

Kovalchuk-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown

Simmonds can fill in for Williams if/when he is injured. Hell, even Moller or Loktionov could fill in with Kovalchuk and Kopitar.

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06-16-2010, 02:13 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
Are you saying you think centermen should make more than wingers?
AB-SO-FING-LUTE-LY!!

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06-16-2010, 02:14 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
Come on. You don't think Kane, Toews, Hossa and Keith can be considered stars? Give me a break..
What are the cap hits of those players? Any of them weigh in with a cap hit of over $7M?

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06-16-2010, 02:15 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
You're assuming we can't sign both. We can add Kovy AND a reliable puck moving d-man if need be. None of us know what we have in this Franssen kid we just signed but from the sounds of it, he's exactly what you're talking about. Getting a reliable puck moving d-man doesn't mean we have to find one that's a $4 million cap hit. And DL also said he thinks we CAN wait for one of our prospects and see if they're the right fit, so he will most likely get some offense this year instead.
Yeah... a nice tidbit they have left out.

Right after talking about Nashville (the same interview everyone is referencing):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lombardi
“So my point is, you could make the argument that, to improve this team, the goals for will go up if we get more plays from the back. Very true. Now, the difference is, I’ve got some kids in the minors who could, potentially, do that for us. But it’s whether they’re ready or not. There’s a difference between saying, `OK, one of them will be ready to play a 5-6 role, and the other a top-four role.’ Well, there aren’t very many Drews.
OK great, so that's one argument you could make. And its a valid one.

Now, the caveat:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lombardi
“So to answer your question, I could say that in a perfect world, to make this all fit with the cap numbers, you’ve got those defensemen coming, so don’t go get them (through free agency or trades), but the thing that might improve you the most is that guy. But he’s not there, in the system, until next year. So then it goes back to your other question. If I wait for a forward internally, is there one there? Well… I’ve got maybe six swings on defense, and I’ve got maybe two swings up the middle, with the centers (Loktionov and Schenn). So that’s a timing issue. So like I said, if the world was going to blow up in 12 months, you might take the back-end guy. But if you’re putting it all together and you want to be a contender, you might say, `OK, it’s not going to be a perfect fit here right now, but I’ve got this coming.’ I’m not saying I have the answer for you, but those are all the issues. It’s very hard to say, `This is definitely the right answer.’ That’s not the nature of this job.”
This is the key part of the interview, particularly as its the last part of the answer. Dean weaves his way through questions, and generally doesn't arrive at his point until the end. He sets it all, then comes to a point.

The Nashville things was the set-up. The point is that there are dmen in the system, and no real forwards. He says 6 swings on defense... that's a lot, especially when you really only need to fill 1 spot. Now you have only 2 swings on offense, and in two years you have two holes to fill. Trying to get 2 out of 2 are terrible odds. So like he says, it may not be perfect this coming year, but it will be next year. He essentially says "Yes, we need a dman, it will help this team a lot and it is a need, but I can be patient with this one, whereas on offense, now is probably the time to strike, because of what's in (and not in) the system.

I mean jesus, he literally says that he would go get the back-end guy you all want IF THE WORLD WAS GOING TO END IN A YEAR!

So unless you're a big 2012 proponent, don't expect that dman to come this year.

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Old
06-16-2010, 02:28 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Nah:

Kovalchuk-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown

Simmonds can fill in for Williams if/when he is injured. Hell, even Moller or Loktionov could fill in with Kovalchuk and Kopitar.
If this team wants to make serious noise, both Stoll and Brown can't be a top 6 forwards

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06-16-2010, 02:33 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
AB-SO-FING-LUTE-LY!!
HA HA! Great. So when LA offers more money to Richardson or Moller because they are centerman than Simmonds and he walks because of it you'll be ok with that? Come on man...players don't get paid by position. Never have, never will.

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06-16-2010, 02:40 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
What are the cap hits of those players? Any of them weigh in with a cap hit of over $7M?
Wow. How many players do you know that are on their entry level contract making $7 million? Give your head a shake man. None of your posts make any sense. Even if you're talking about next year, how many players do you know not named Crosby or Ovechkin that signed their RFA contract making $7 million? And Keith is signed for 12 years and he's no Kovalchuk!!

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06-16-2010, 02:44 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
HA HA! Great. So when LA offers more money to Richardson or Moller because they are centerman than Simmonds and he walks because of it you'll be ok with that? Come on man...players don't get paid by position. Never have, never will.
There is definitely something to be said for this. Otherwise, going by the DL 'importance of position' breakdown, goalies would be the highest paid players on the team, and yet, this only applies to a very select few goalies. Otherwise, goalies tend to make even less than wingers.

So how is it that the 'least important position', typically makes more than the so-called 'most important position'.

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06-16-2010, 02:47 PM
  #268
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
What are the cap hits of those players? Any of them weigh in with a cap hit of over $7M?
So, according to your logic, the only star on the hawx is Campbell (7M)?

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06-16-2010, 02:52 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
HA HA! Great. So when LA offers more money to Richardson or Moller because they are centerman than Simmonds and he walks because of it you'll be ok with that? Come on man...players don't get paid by position. Never have, never will.
Yeah, that's just misguided information.

Just because DL emphasized the importance of building down the middle, some of the posters automatically think that means that the centers should be paid more. I don't agree with it, but some posters on this board do.

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06-16-2010, 03:01 PM
  #270
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I still don't see how people think we won't have cap space to sign simmonds, doughty, and johnson if we sign Kovalchuk. Plus the caps going up to 58 mil. 7.5 mill will be free at the end of the season with williams and handzus contracts ending. And smyth and his 6 mill will be traded. That's 13.5mil for the 3 resigns. Doughtys cap hit is already 3 mil so we really only add about 4 mil tops for him. Johnson add 3 mill. Simmonds add 2 mil.. that only 9 mil added.

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06-16-2010, 03:21 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Cook24 View Post
I still don't see how people think we won't have cap space to sign simmonds, doughty, and johnson if we sign Kovalchuk. Plus the caps going up to 58 mil. 7.5 mill will be free at the end of the season with williams and handzus contracts ending. And smyth and his 6 mill will be traded. That's 13.5mil for the 3 resigns. Doughtys cap hit is already 3 mil so we really only add about 4 mil tops for him. Johnson add 3 mill. Simmonds add 2 mil.. that only 9 mil added.
Yup it's just that simple. Ask the Hawks.

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Old
06-16-2010, 03:23 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
If this team wants to make serious noise, both Stoll and Brown can't be a top 6 forwards
I don't get this? Didn't Chicago just win the cup with Bolland and Versteeg in their top 6?

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06-16-2010, 03:27 PM
  #273
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Regarding Randy Jones - I'm surprised no one mentioned CapGeek.com. Jones is listed as UFA. CapGeek has been very good with announcing new contracts, whether NHL free agents, minor leaguers or entry level contracts (see Fransson).

Also, when is another Kovalchuk type UFA, in his prime no less, going to be available? With all these long contracts being given out there will be fewer and fewer each year. I think in the next couple of years there are going to be many more attempts to sign RFA's. Teams will be forced to accept draft choice compensation or make trades. Or sign someone elses RFA.

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06-16-2010, 03:28 PM
  #274
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I don't get this? Didn't Chicago just win the cup with Bolland and Versteeg in their top 6?
Nope.... that was their third line.

It was basically:

Kane-Toews-Buff
Hossa-Sharp-Brouwer

as the top 6.

Checking line was someone(Kopecky?)-Bolland-Vertsteeg

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06-16-2010, 03:28 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by frolovfan View Post
Yup it's just that simple. Ask the Hawks.
Um..the Hawks won the Cup. Is that not the ultimate goal? Or is it to see who has the most cap space each year?

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