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Kaberle to other teams

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Old
06-09-2010, 11:58 AM
  #51
Dylonus
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Originally Posted by TylerBobak View Post
Umm if Leopold doesn't need to put up points.. then why would you cite him as one of your PMD haha? And for the other two you keep using words like "potential", yea they MIGHT become decent at running a power play, they might become less than average. I don't see why you're getting worked up, I've already said I don't think Toronto and Pittsburgh are good trading partners, I was just saying your team lacks an elite PMD if Gonchar leaves... which is true. Assuming Letang/Goligoski can put up 50-65 points is like assuming Bozak is going to put up 65+ points as a number one centre. It might happen, but you can't bank on it.
You don't have to put up points to be a PMD...

Leopold makes a break pass to Crosby. Goes 3 on 2 with Guerin and Kunitz. He passes to Kunitz, who passes to Guerin, who scores. Leopold = no points, but made puck moving play. See what I did there? That's what Leopold is.

I used potential repeatedly cause he's true. They are progressing... meaning they have potential. What's so hard to understand about that?

and if Gonchar leaves, it's not that big of a deal as people think. Gonchar has seriously regressed. Letang and Goligoski's performance in the playoffs showed me they have what it takes to get to that level.

Again, they are putting up solid numbers and getting better at only age 22(he's 23 now, but was 22 for almost the entire season), and 24. I don't understand why you think they aren't getting to the level in which Kaberle is now?

Would I like Kaberle on the Penguins? Sure. I would also like Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Rick Nash, and Ryan Kesler

Kaberle isn't what we NEED. I would just like to have him because I like his style. If we want to win a cup again, we don't need Kaberle.

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Old
06-09-2010, 11:58 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by nwpensfan View Post
What are you guys, NHL experts?
And you are I bet.

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06-09-2010, 11:59 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by sirmaxalot View Post
Great response man. I'm glad you are able to LYAO. Very intelligent input. I think this whole thread just benefitted from your careful analysis of who I am and what I know about trades. Thank you for telling me what I do and do not know. Why didn't you just come on this thread sooner. I was agreeing finally with the last poster that he would most like re-sign. I know good trades and I've seen many bad trades (being a Bruins fan, trust me Sinden did a number on us). Even if I was coaching any other team in the NHL, I would want to be sure I could keep Kaberle for more than a year. Unfortunately, no one can be sure they can keep him longer, hence the hesitance of giving up future players from re-building teams for a one year rental.
My first post in this thread:

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Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
Leaf fans don't care anymore.

We want to keep Kaberle.

You can make offers for Komi and Beauch instead

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Old
06-09-2010, 11:59 AM
  #54
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And you are I bet.
No and I never pretended to be.

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:00 PM
  #55
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
this is a proposal to all Leaf fans.

assuming burke DOES in fact trade Kaberle, propose some trade scenarios involving any and as many of the 29 other NHL clubs you can realisticly see happening.

lets just see what you feel his true value is..
Every thread ends the same way.

To Toronto, we wants to stay in Toronto and sign a long term extension. He is a perfect fit on our blueline with Mike Komisarek. There would have to be a package that "knocks Burke's socks off" and significantly improves our team.

To Any other team, he's going to walk after a year. His recent performance in Toronto says he's a crappy defenceman (specifically in his own zone), he's not worth trading players that are important to the recieving team.

Toronto values him higher than other teams. He stays in Toronto.

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:01 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
You have no clue what would work for other teams. You are a fan lmao
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Originally Posted by ColtonOrr View Post
Thank you.
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Originally Posted by nwpensfan View Post
What are you guys, NHL experts?
Just voices of reason in this crazy, crazy world.

Just try to look at this from a rational perspective.

There has never been a single post in this forum that predicted the return any player has gotten ever in the NHL.

Think about that for a moment and then apply it to my comment about how silly the poster is for asserting that he knows what a Kaberle return will be

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:02 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
My first post in this thread:
So my agreeing with both you and the poster before me caused you to mock me for agreeing?

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:04 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by sirmaxalot View Post
So my agreeing with both you and the poster before me caused you to mock me for agreeing?
No it was for stating Kaberle would only get a 5th rounder in return.

Pretty dumb comment to be making regardless of what you think he is worth.

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06-09-2010, 12:06 PM
  #59
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im still lol-ing at the Leafs fan who wouldnt take Pominville and Stafford

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:07 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by ColtonOrr View Post
No it was for stating Kaberle would only get a 5th rounder in return.

Pretty dumb comment to be making regardless of what you think he is worth.
HAHA, I was being sarcastic. Throwing an unrealistic return for the player as most responses when it comes to the aspect of "trading" for Kaberle are unrealistic due to a list of factors. I do believe he will re-sign in Toronto.

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06-09-2010, 12:10 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirmaxalot View Post
HAHAHA Brian Campbell could win a Stanley Cup tonight... Kaberle brought his team to the SECOND WORST position in the NHL. He is zoned out. In his prime?! Kaberle's point production since 06'... 67 points, then 58, then 53, then 31, and finally last year as their "go to" defencemen, 49 points. and dropped each year from a plus 3 season rating to a minus 16. So... why am I renting this player for a high pick and a prospect?
You could put Nik Lidstrom on the Leafs last year, and with the goaltending that we had prior to the trade deadline, playing against top lines all year he wouldn't have had a good plus minus... You give last year's Leafs solid goaltending from day 1 of the season and Kaberle's plus minus would have been much different...

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06-09-2010, 12:10 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
im still lol-ing at the Leafs fan who wouldnt take Pominville and Stafford
There's nothing wrong with the "value" on that.... the problem is that we do not have the space to take on Pominville and do not need 2 right wingers. He's not the kind of player who we can afford to pay $5.3m (small right wing), we already have one of those named KEssel.

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:11 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by sirmaxalot View Post
HAHA, I was being sarcastic. Throwing an unrealistic return for the player as most responses when it comes to the aspect of "trading" for Kaberle are unrealistic due to a list of factors. I do believe he will re-sign in Toronto.
No you were being dumb by postng something like that and not expecting to get flamed for it.

Kaberle's days are numbered, he is gone in a few weeks.

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06-09-2010, 12:11 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Every thread ends the same way.

To Toronto, we wants to stay in Toronto and sign a long term extension. He is a perfect fit on our blueline with Mike Komisarek. There would have to be a package that "knocks Burke's socks off" and significantly improves our team.

To Any other team, he's going to walk after a year. His recent performance in Toronto says he's a crappy defenceman (specifically in his own zone), he's not worth trading players that are important to the recieving team.

Toronto values him higher than other teams. He stays in Toronto.
I think a lot of teams would like to have him! My questions about him are:

Is it going to cost too much to resign him within cap restraints?
Can he be resigned (will he resign with our team)?
Does he fill a real need for the cost?
And finally what do I have to give up?

And you cannot answer the last question w/o saying saying no to the first and yes to 2nd and 3rd questions. For Pittsburgh the answers (in my opinion as a fan) would be Yes, Maybe, No. So the fourth question is irrelevant.

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:11 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by sirmaxalot View Post
So my agreeing with both you and the poster before me caused you to mock me for agreeing?

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NO team at all wants Kaberle unless they can be sure he will re-sign at a reasonable price. It would be absolutely stupid to trade prospects, picks or an equal player to have him walk after a year and slither back to the leafs. Unless you can be sure he will sign, and you can't really, no one in their right minds would give more than a 5th round to RENT a Kaberle.

No, I spanked you because you stated only a crazy person would give better than a 5th to acquire Kaberle.

Why don't you start a thread with that proposal and your rationale for it?

I bet you are banned for being a troll within the first page of responses.

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06-09-2010, 12:12 PM
  #66
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Naming names is pretty useless as I'm sure Burke is going to surprise us all, he's yet to do a trade anybody has called (aside from Kessel)

Either:

-Top 6 Forward (RW) + 1st Round Draft Pick (20th or lower)
-Top 6 Forward + Prospect (year away from NHL) + Salary Dump

The above is assuming Kaberle comes with an extension.

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:13 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by BeautyDuster View Post
Naming names is pretty useless as I'm sure Burke is going to surprise us all, he's yet to do a trade anybody has called (aside from Kessel)

Either:

-Top 6 Forward (RW) + 1st Round Draft Pick (20th or lower)
-Top 6 Forward + Prospect (year away from NHL) + Salary Dump

The above is assuming Kaberle comes with an extension.
Sounds about right for both sides.

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:16 PM
  #68
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You could put Nik Lidstrom on the Leafs last year, and with the goaltending that we had prior to the trade deadline, playing against top lines all year he wouldn't have had a good plus minus... You give last year's Leafs solid goaltending from day 1 of the season and Kaberle's plus minus would have been much different...
I can understand that line of reasoning, but here's the problem...

Kaberle had the worst plus-minus on the Leafs. Now, I don't put a lot of stock in that stat for well-established reasons, but it does occasionally give you a bit of insight. The best and worst guys on the team are usually there for a reason. It's hard for me to believe Kaberle was out there playing airtight defense and he still ended up worst on the team despite also being their leading setup man. That just doesn't add up.

Also, Kaberle was 3rd among their dmen in minutes all season. That's an iffy stat IMO for a guy who's being sold as a true #1 blueliner. And it makes the +/- look even worse when you consider there were guys playing more minutes, scoring fewer points and coming out better on balance.

If Lidstrom had been on the Leafs, he would not have been 3rd in minutes and he would not have been last in +/-, ya dig?

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06-09-2010, 12:18 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeautyDuster View Post
Naming names is pretty useless as I'm sure Burke is going to surprise us all, he's yet to do a trade anybody has called (aside from Kessel)

Either:

-Top 6 Forward (RW) + 1st Round Draft Pick (20th or lower)
-Top 6 Forward + Prospect (year away from NHL) + Salary Dump

The above is assuming Kaberle comes with an extension.


Langenbrunner, Corrente, and Pandolfo/Salvador

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06-09-2010, 12:19 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
No, I spanked you because you stated only a crazy person would give better than a 5th to acquire Kaberle.

Why don't you start a thread with that proposal and your rationale for it?

I bet you are banned for being a troll within the first page of responses.
OK Adversary. I'm no troll. Why do you presume to know anything about me. You have basically done nothing but attack me for having an opinion that isn't even totally different from yours... You just want to argue. I am not arguing with you any longer. Believe what you want to believe when it comes to Kaberle. I gave you an opinion from someone who isn't bleeding Blue and White.

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06-09-2010, 12:20 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
Just voices of reason in this crazy, crazy world.

Just try to look at this from a rational perspective.

There has never been a single post in this forum that predicted the return any player has gotten ever in the NHL.

Think about that for a moment and then apply it to my comment about how silly the poster is for asserting that he knows what a Kaberle return will be
The 'lmao' struck me as a little harsh and this is a thread to do just that, predict the return. Some posters not named (not you) seem to shoot down other teams fans 'predictions' like he does know better. That was the direction of my post. Sorry if I offended.

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:21 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by BeautyDuster View Post
Naming names is pretty useless as I'm sure Burke is going to surprise us all, he's yet to do a trade anybody has called (aside from Kessel)

Either:

-Top 6 Forward (RW) + 1st Round Draft Pick (20th or lower)
-Top 6 Forward + Prospect (year away from NHL) + Salary Dump

The above is assuming Kaberle comes with an extension.
Correction. Proposing deals without naming names is useless. The Leafs aren't in the process of tearing their existing team apart. They have specifc needs and specifc cap allowances.

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:24 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by sirmaxalot View Post
OK Adversary. I'm no troll. Why do you presume to know anything about me. You have basically done nothing but attack me for having an opinion that isn't even totally different from yours... You just want to argue. I am not arguing with you any longer. Believe what you want to believe when it comes to Kaberle. I gave you an opinion from someone who isn't bleeding Blue and White.
This is the internet ... I have been around the block many many times on many many message boards.

Troll checklist:

1) New member - check
2) Combative attitude from the start - check
3) stirs trouble on the most popularly polarizing topics - check
4) unrealistic posts (kabs is worth a 5th) - check

I think I know you better than you think

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:25 PM
  #74
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HAHA OK Papadice, ColtonOrr and Adversary... The long and short of it is this... for the 120347129864721th time, Leafs fans are expecting the world for Kaberle. If I had told you that when Kessel came to Toronto that he was only staying for a year and you were giving up the same picks, you would flip out. You are expecting other teams to just forget that in one year he will probably want to return to Toronto and you've essentially given up a high pick and great prospect for him? It is the same as the Mats Sundin fiasco. No one wanted to drop a mint on him to see him walk back to Toronto in a year. Unless you're sure you're a cup contender, you don't want to give up your future players for a player that doesn't want to play for anyone but the Blue and White. His agent was on 640 the other day and noted that despite rumours to the contrary, Kaberle has only ONCE, and ONCE only a couple of seasons ago given a possible list of cities to be traded to. Since then it's been a solid "NO".
You realize that any team negotiating with Burke for a serious offer would likely be granted permission to talk to Kaberle? And that the deal would likely only go down if Kaberle agreed to an extension.

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Old
06-09-2010, 12:25 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by nwpensfan View Post
The 'lmao' struck me as a little harsh and this is a thread to do just that, predict the return. Some posters not named (not you) seem to shoot down other teams fans 'predictions' like he does know better. That was the direction of my post. Sorry if I offended.
No man, not at all...

I just don't like seeing kaberle = 5th rounder. Other posters read it and then it spread, making this place hell for leaf fans

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