Speculation: Vesa Toskala

[Stewie Griffin]

I actually thought he played half decent with the Flames.

He'll sign on somewhere. Edmonton seems like a half decent fit, and he might do well there.

[wingsarekings*]

I'll post the same thing I posted in a previous thread, sorry for the redundancy I don't feel like arguing the same points....

Toskala is not a bad goalie. He's a decent starter on a good team, but not very good on a bad team. He needs a decent supporting cast, and that gives him confidence to play well.

He was very very solid for the leafs in his first season. The number's dont lie.



07-08:

14 goalies played over 60 games that year...

Which of those goalies played on mediocre teams:

Dipietro, Miller, Toskala, Ward and Legacy.

Every other goalie was on a good team that either made the playoffs or was close.

So let's see the numbers for these 5:

Toskala 904sv% 66 games leafs
Miller 906sv% 76 games buffalo
Ward 904sv% 69 games canes
Dipietro 902sv% 63 games islanders
Legacy 911sv% 66 games blues

Now the ranking of those teams:

Carolina 92
Buffalo 90
Toronto 83
St Louis/NYI 79

He was also Toronto's MVP that year and was the hot topic of the hockey news yearbook edition 2008


http://www.wordofsport.com/books/ice...earbook_200809

The leafs decided to rebuild in 08-09 and Toskala was ok until he got injured, and played through the entire year with both a torn hip and groin. His numbers weren't good, but that should have been expected playing on a rebuilding team, dealing with injuries and inconsistent play.

This year he rushed himself back into action and cost the leafs many games. He was not the same goalie, and didnt' even play average till about mid November. So yes he was very bad this season, whether or not he only played 26 games.

That being said

It's one thing to put up bad numbers on a bad team, it's another to put up bad numbers on a good team.

Ala Chris Osgood and Christobal Huet of this season.

Look at how Philly and Chicago are doing with average goalies. Toskala has a proven track record.

- Playoff series victory, went to second round 05/06
-Toronto's MVP and "supposed franchise goalie" 07/08
-Played 1 and 1/3rds of a year on a rebuilding team
-Has played in pressure packed market
-disgarding this season(he was coming off surgeries, then Blake injured him again) his record was 55-42-17 with an around 900sv% just below or just above in his first 2 years with us.

All these factors will come in to play when teams look at him during the free agency period.

Nobody cares if you struggled for 1 and 1/3rds of a year behind the leafs.

Look at Lee Stempniak, the guy was probably on his knees begging Burke to trade him, then he lit the torch in Pheonix.

Stempniak was horrible throughout his tenure in Toronto, but Toskala was actually outstanding one season, and that one season will probably play a huge factor down the line.

Fine, Toskala can't be a #1 on rebuilding team, not many goalies in the league can.

Once that team rises to the top and has a defence like Chicago or Philly, it doesn't matter if your name is Dan Cloutier, your job is that much easier. Something were witnessing right now with the Hawks and Flyers.

Not taking away anything from Niemi or Leighton, they have been great, all I'm saying is the NHL is a changing business, and just because you struggled for 26 games that doesn't define your career.

I firmly believe in his play and talent, yes he's a little inconsistent, but that can be fixed behind a decent team that is able to hide those flaws.

Begin the trashing and flaming

[Call of the loonie]

You can blame the crappy team. The Leafs were definitely bad last year. But he had a league worst .880 svpct compared to Gustavsson's .902 on the same team. That is not going to get him a job as a starter next year.

[Vitto79]

Toskala would be a good back up. He should get a deal. I would take him as the Ranger backup for cheap. BUT he will likely get more if he goes to the KHL so will be interesting

[Trueblue72]

He is starter next season
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For my d division beer league team, we will see how many times he gets pulled :-p

[wingsarekings*]

Originally Posted by Call of the loonie

You can blame the crappy team. The Leafs were definitely bad last year. But he had a league worst .880 svpct compared to Gustavsson's .902 on the same team. That is not going to get him a job as a starter next year.

Gustavvson was very good last season, his numbers indicate he was average but he was def better than 902sv%. The leafs pretty much reduce every goalies save percentage slightly. Giguerre came in during a time when the team was already out of contention, and became part of the leafs "annual" late season "lets destroy our draft position" run. So you could see why his numbers were decent. The leafs have a remarkable end of the season just about every year to give hope that the following year will be better...They bring in the young players and play pressure free.

[Call of the loonie]

Originally Posted by warf1234

Gustavvson was very good last season, his numbers indicate he was average but he was def better than 902sv%. The leafs pretty much reduce every goalies save percentage slightly. Giguerre came in during a time when the team was already out of contention, and became part of the leafs "annual" late season "lets destroy our draft position" run. So you could see why his numbers were decent. The leafs have a remarkable end of the season just about every year to give hope that the following year will be better...They bring in the young players and play pressure free.

The Leaf's late season surge is totally irrelevant. Gustavsson's numbers were superior to Toskala's all season long - despite two heart procedures and the death of his mother. Toskala sucked.

[jb**]

As early as last summer the flyers were high on him and had discussions abotu acquiring him. Not sure if that is still the case though.

[KesselySnipes]

The sad thing is I could probably make a full highlight reel of his momentum killing stinkers which almost always happen in the first period. That youtube clip is no rare occurrence when Toskala is playing dodgeball in net for your team. The guy is just plain bad. Some guys are meant to be starters while others are are destined for far less. Toskala is the latter.

He plays smaller than he already is, he is always deep in his crease, his glove hand is inconsistent, his five-hole is open longer than 7/11 and worst of all, his attitude is one where he accepts no blame for his actions. He always has an excuse and as a result he never bothers fixing his glaring mistakes. What goalie in the NHL would push Allaire aside and completely disregard what he has to say? He flat out refused to work with him.

I don't see how anyone would want Toskala to be anything other than a $1 million dollar back-up at the most.

[wingsarekings*]

Originally Posted by KesselySnipes

The sad thing is I could probably make a full highlight reel of his momentum killing stinkers which almost always happen in the first period. That youtube clip is no rare occurrence when Toskala is playing dodgeball in net for your team. The guy is just plain bad. Some guys are meant to be starters while others are are destined for far less. Toskala is the latter.

He plays smaller than he already is, he is always deep in his crease, his glove hand is inconsistent, his five-hole is open longer than 7/11 and worst of all, his attitude is one where he accepts no blame for his actions. He always has an excuse and as a result he never bothers fixing his glaring mistakes. What goalie in the NHL would push Allaire aside and completely disregard what he has to say? He flat out refused to work with him.

I don't see how anyone would want Toskala to be anything other than a $1 million dollar back-up at the most.

You don't seem to understand something. Allaire's style isn't for everyone. Read up a bit on goaltending styles otherwise you haven't a clue what you're arguing about. If I was 32 years old coming off 2 seperate surgical procedures I would be resistant too if a arrogant french man came to me and tried to change my style. The sad thing is Toskala was ok up until this year, which coincides with Allaire's arrival.

Toskala's coach was Warren Strelow. He coached the likes of Brodeur, Nabokov and Kipper. Not Francois Allaire.

[KesselySnipes]

Was he really ok up until this year? Last year he wasn't much better either. His surgery was supposed to bring him back to his San Jose days but in the end he only performed worse. He's been declining steadily since he got traded to the Leafs. Even in Calgary, a much stronger defensive team, his performance wasn't much better.

And sure, Allaire's system isn't for everyone, but Toskala's current style doesn't seem to be working for him either. If I remember correctly, he started practicing on his own weeks into the season so I highly doubt Allaire had enough time to ruin him. Like you said, he's 32 and one off-season with a goaltending guru is not enough time to unmake the greatness that was the 07/08 and 08/09 Toskala. He had every chance to succeed and wasn't able to seize the opportunity. Eventually one has to realize that he's not what we thought he was going to be. I don't see how anyone can see the light at the end of the tunnel in regards to his career as a starter and that's including Toskala himself.

[HemskyToHall*]

Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin

I actually thought he played half decent with the Flames.

He'll sign on somewhere. Edmonton seems like a half decent fit, and he might do well there.

lolwut.

If he plays like crap for a 29th place team, chances are he'll play even worse for a 30th place team. Besides we have Bulin.

[ComixZone]

Toskala played quite well in his short stint with the Flames. At the end of the day, I honestly think his performance in Toronto was due to mental weakness. He probably just ran out of energy and desire. He knew the Leafs were awful and had no shot at the playoffs, so he didn't pay his game the proper amount of attention and the results eroded - which is definitely a character fault on his end.

I think some team will end up being quite happy with him at 1.5 million next season as their 1a.

[HockeyGuruPitka]

I hate the sympathy this crap goalie is getting. Ive watched him in games and in practices. Absolutely no desire, just chasing a paycheck. A team would be foolish to sign him, seeing how badly he plays at 4million a year, he'd probably have a nap in the crease at 1million.

[RogerRoeper*]

Originally Posted by Pure

If Andrew Raycroft can have a respectable season (21 games played, .911 save percentage) with a good team, I think Toskala can do so as well. San Jose isn't Toronto, Toskala is probably not a bad option at a cheap price.

Toskala isn't the same goalie he was in San Jose though. It wasn't due to Toronto at all. Toskala is just terrible.

[RogerRoeper*]

For some reason, I guess to annoy Leaf fans, people on HF overrate Toskala. He played well in Calgary? He had, what, 2 or 3 starts? THat's way too small of a sample size to claim he'd play better with a superior team. And I get ripped for bringing up Bozak's PPG. avg in 37 games.

Toskala has had the NHL's worst numbers the last two years. How come goalies on other bad teams don't have numbers nearly as bad as he did? Why did a rookie in Gustavsson have better numbers than Toskala on the same team all year long?

[KeziaTML]

Hey guys, remember all of those games where we started the game down atleast 2 goals in the first 10 minutes of a game?

Yeah I don't miss those times. Piss off Toskala.

[wingsarekings*]

Originally Posted by RogerRoeper

For some reason, I guess to annoy Leaf fans, people on HF overrate Toskala. He played well in Calgary? He had, what, 2 or 3 starts? THat's way too small of a sample size to claim he'd play better with a superior team. And I get ripped for bringing up Bozak's PPG. avg in 37 games.

Toskala has had the NHL's worst numbers the last two years. How come goalies on other bad teams don't have numbers nearly as bad as he did? Why did a rookie in Gustavsson have better numbers than Toskala on the same team all year long?

He was coming off 2 seperate surgical procedures heading into this season and wasn't fit to start. Yet management gave him the green light. Remember when he lost 7-2 in the preseason? That should have been an indication that he wasn't in form. Instead we had a new team along with a fragile goalie and it spelled disaster. If he doesn't have the start that he had his numbers wouldn't have been as bad as they were.

That being said, it was only 26 games, move on. I'm a leafs fan and I could care less about what Toskala did at this point. I'd be more concerned with the fact that the last 2 cup winners won through tanking/drafting, and Burke gave up our future for a one dimensional player. Rather than admit the idiocy of Burke, let's just keep making scapegoats to satisfy ourselves.

The leafs won't make the playoffs next year, and probably won't the following year. At which point you will continue to blame Toskala, because it's just that easy.

[RogerRoeper*]

Originally Posted by warf1234

He was coming off 2 seperate surgical procedures heading into this season and wasn't fit to start. Yet management gave him the green light. Remember when he lost 7-2 in the preseason? That should have been an indication that he wasn't in form. Instead we had a new team along with a fragile goalie and it spelled disaster. If he doesn't have the start that he had his numbers wouldn't have been as bad as they were.

That being said, it was only 26 games, move on. I'm a leafs fan and I could care less about what Toskala did at this point. I'd be more concerned with the fact that the last 2 cup winners won through tanking/drafting, and Burke gave up our future for a one dimensional player. Rather than admit the idiocy of Burke, let's just keep making scapegoats to satisfy ourselves.

The leafs won't make the playoffs next year, and probably won't the following year. At which point you will continue to blame Toskala, because it's just that easy.

why do people act like 26 games isn't a lot in a season? It is.

And Toskala was bad in 08-09' as well.

[Call of the loonie]

Originally Posted by warf1234

He was coming off 2 seperate surgical procedures heading into this season and wasn't fit to start. Yet management gave him the green light. Remember when he lost 7-2 in the preseason? That should have been an indication that he wasn't in form. Instead we had a new team along with a fragile goalie and it spelled disaster. If he doesn't have the start that he had his numbers wouldn't have been as bad as they were.

That being said, it was only 26 games, move on. I'm a leafs fan and I could care less about what Toskala did at this point. I'd be more concerned with the fact that the last 2 cup winners won through tanking/drafting, and Burke gave up our future for a one dimensional player. Rather than admit the idiocy of Burke, let's just keep making scapegoats to satisfy ourselves.

The leafs won't make the playoffs next year, and probably won't the following year. At which point you will continue to blame Toskala, because it's just that easy.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/694963

Toskala, who required two separate springtime surgeries on his hip and a sports hernia, said he feels "great" after spending the summer working the bike, playing tennis and, for the last month, getting back on the ice.

"I'm excited. I've been able to work out without any pain all summer so I'm really looking forward to this coming season," he said. "I think the whole team has to become a better team and play better as a team but hopefully I can maybe steal a couple more games."

So why would the evil Leafs management be blamed for thinking Toskala was ready to play?

[wingsarekings*]

Originally Posted by Call of the loonie

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/694963



So why would the evil Leafs management be blamed for thinking Toskala was ready to play?

It's not entirely the managements fault, it's a bit of both. Burke in a interview a week ago stated after the Buffalo pre-season game he felt he had really made a mistake with the goaltending and didn't feel Toskala would be ready.

Toskala is also at fault for declaring he was ready to play, when he obviously was not. He should have let Gustavsson and Macdonald start the year until he had been in some game action. Heck starting the year with the Marlies would have been an option, to get a feel of the game.

Nobody should be allowed to start coming off a 7-2 loss in the final preasason game where he pretty much got exposed at every area.

[zeus3007*]

Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin

I actually thought he played half decent with the Flames.

He'll sign on somewhere. Edmonton seems like a half decent fit, and he might do well there.

Nope. Edmonton has Khabiboulin, Deslauriers and Dubnyk, all of whom I would take over Toskala. No chance he is an Oiler.

[Barney Gumble]

Originally Posted by warf1234

You don't seem to understand something. Allaire's style isn't for everyone. Read up a bit on goaltending styles otherwise you haven't a clue what you're arguing about. If I was 32 years old coming off 2 seperate surgical procedures I would be resistant too if a arrogant french man came to me and tried to change my style. The sad thing is Toskala was ok up until this year, which coincides with Allaire's arrival.

A save percentage of 0.891 (2008/09 season) is anything but ok. It's medicore at best.

[Sandwiches1123]

Originally Posted by Mr3000gt

The Calgary Flames will have a new back-up for Miikka Kiprusoff next season.

Calgary Flames general manager Darryl Sutter, in a wide-ranging interview with The Fan 960 on Wednesday, said Vesa Toskala will not be back in a Flames uniform in 2010-11. The Finnish netminder is set to become an unrestricted free agent on July 1.

"Vesa made it very clear that he wanted to be a one or 1A in the league," said Sutter.

With Toskala out ether Darryl will sign or trade for another back-up which has worked so well for him in the past NOT soo now this gives ether Leland Irving, Matt Keetley or David Shantz an opportunity.

Keetley was 10-7-1, Irving was 13-17-2 and Shantz 14-10-3 in the minors so i guess my choice would be ether Keetley or Shantz( he looked not to bad in pre season )


so now the big questions are What team does Toskala best fit into the #1 or #1a role? and How much is a team willing to pay for him?

This is kind of funny because Toskala failed as a 1/1a goaltender on the second worst team in the league. After he was traded to Calgary, Toronto's play improved. He's never going to be a 1/1a. He is better as a strong backup who plays 30 to 38 games a year as a 1b behind a 1a. He'd be excellent in a Biron role as someone mentioned but that is not the role he envisions for himself. That means, he's probably not playing in the NHL next year.

I would say Irving is actually the logical choice to move to the NHL. Keetley had a better record which means they should try to get him more playing time as the number 1in Abbotsford. Shantz will act as his back up and maybe play closer to a 1b role in the AHL than strictly a backup role.

Irving will get tonnes of experience practicing along with the big club but will bot see much playing time. It may be better for his development that he will see what NHL ice looks like. Not to mention Calgary's salary cap woes that are self-inflicted mortal wounds.

How much will Toskala make next year? No more than $2 million. In fact, I'd say he makes $1.4 million. Who is going to pay him $1.4 million to be a 1/1a? Not sure. He may be a fit in a place like Florida, Philly, or even Tampa but I doubt any GM wants him as "our new number 1 goaltender". Isn't that similar to waiving a white flag? Why not just bring back Dan Cloutier?

[Barney Gumble]

Originally Posted by Sandwiches1123

Irving will get tonnes of experience practicing along with the big club but will bot see much playing time. It may be better for his development that he will see what NHL ice looks like.

I disagree. Better for Irving to be in actual games for his development else you'd see other prospects sitting as "black aces" vs playing major minutes on the farm. As well, given the bonus situation this season, Irving's cap hit will be just under $1.2 million. Flames can't afford to have that kind of cap hit sitting on the bench. Better to have a cheapo backup making half that amount.