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Old
06-12-2010, 12:36 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by The Nic View Post
Sorry... but the purpose of this thread was something else entirely. I don't mind in the slightest if a real Leafs fan wishes to criticize the team for not being very succcessful lately. That's fair game as far as I'm concerned. What I don't appreciate is an outsider criticizing the team's fans for remaining loyal through it all. That, I feel, is absurd. You're either a fan or you're not. You can be a happy fan or an unhappy one... you're a fan all the same... and unlikely to pull on another team's uni just because they're better than we are at the moment..
I suppose it depends on ones perspective as I didn't interpret the quote you provided the same way as you did apparently.

Quote:
To appease the beancounters at MLSE, Monday’s event will feature a couple other notable developments. First, the team will unveil a re-tooled jersey which, if nothing else, will increase sales from the sucker populace that can’t get enough of a losing team.
That didn't say Leaf fans should switch to another Team to support a more successful Team, but rather stop injecting more money into MLSE, until they give you a better product to support. !!!

ie. If you already have a Schenn Jersey from 2008, do you really need a new one in 2010, simply because MLSE changed the jersey design? That is really the just of his point here. IMO

MLSE already has the highest ticket prices in the NHL, and announces a ticket increase and the Team on the ice just finished 29th and 2nd last. So the Author again is taking a shot a Fans (implying their Sheep), who simply keep investing more time, effort and $$ into MLSE losing product, without holding them accountable and making them earn Fans hard earned money by providing better results FIRST.

Most NHL teams that provide poor on ice products, repay Ownership through showing their displeasure through empty seats in the Arena, not he case for Leaf Nation however, thus the 'sucker populace that can’t get enough of a losing team" comment. When you hit a Businessmen in his own wallet they take notice and makes changes to correct that situation when it hurts them financially if they don't.

The media taking shots at MLSE directly is the vessel for showing displeasure and disappointment by sending that message on behalf of disgruntled Leaf fans everywhere, because they don't hit MLSE were it hurts most the pocket book, for them to take notice. His quote fired both barrels of his shotgun .. One barrel at MLSE for their lust for money without results, and the other one at loyal (gullible or as he said sucker populace ) Leaf fans that let them get away with this by continuing to invest in the label without demanding better results first to earn their money.

Besides Merchandise Sales are only a part of this aspect from MLSE business point-of-view.. Advertising, Marketing and promoting the brand name & label through Press Conferences is designed to generate interest, and in turn to payoff financially in other ways down the road. Its a Business motivated plan and not one done to improve the Sports Team's fortune. .. If MLSE BOG said we're raising new money, so that we can re-invest that into a Ilya Kovachuk signing to improve the Team then you would have something completely different here.

See I don't fall for this new jersey scheme stuff myself. When I grew out of my Dave Keon #14 Jersey as a boy, I now proudly wear my Darryl Sittler #27 jersey or #93 Dougie Gilmour ones to show my loyalty and Fan support for my Leafs.


Last edited by Mess: 06-12-2010 at 12:59 PM.
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06-12-2010, 12:47 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by dirk41 View Post
Because one writer points out the the obvious (cynical sports franchises--even ones that finish 29th--change their uniforms needlessly simply to increase profits and their fans don't mind), you're hoping for massive job cuts?
Reading comprehension clearly not your strong point there either.

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06-12-2010, 12:54 PM
  #28
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I like my media objective, professional, observant and insightful. The Sun is pretty much the opposite. They all have agendas, are total unprofessional hacks, cynical, sensationalist, and downright tiresome. Unfortunately, it is the only paper available at work and it extends past the sports section. What a rag.

The line about sucker populace is totally unprofessional. God forbid MLSE listens to the fans and returns some vintage qualities to the jersey, along with announcing our captain, and that is considered a bad thing.

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06-12-2010, 01:16 PM
  #29
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Awesome first post. I don't take the media too seriously, but sometimes it does get on my nerves. The last few days have been an example of that.

Let's just look forward to the unveiling of the new look and our new captain. It could be the start of a new era, or we could all remain a sucker populace. I prefer to edge on the positive side and feel bad for those who don't.

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06-12-2010, 06:46 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by andymack1986 View Post
I like my media objective, professional, observant and insightful. The Sun is pretty much the opposite. They all have agendas, are total unprofessional hacks, cynical, sensationalist, and downright tiresome. Unfortunately, it is the only paper available at work and it extends past the sports section. What a rag.

The line about sucker populace is totally unprofessional. God forbid MLSE listens to the fans and returns some vintage qualities to the jersey, along with announcing our captain, and that is considered a bad thing.
A couple things here

1. I'm not sure exactly what the reporters expect of corporation the size of MLSE. I read a quote along the lines last week that the only goal they had was putting smiles on the faces of teachers pension fund. This is what they should be doing, they are working for a return for their investors. The perplexing part about quotes like this, and even Richard Peddie has addressed it, the return on investment for teachers pension if the Leafs were good and drew playoff revenue would be exponentially higher than what it is when they are either bad or average.

2. I remember back in the 70's and 80's when most of the Toronto based media was pretty much in bed with Harold Ballard, who was more interested in being the life of the party and maintaining his headline status, than building a winning hockey team. It seems like all of the media has gone the complete opposite direction now, where all that is written is critical or negative, the worst being Howard Berger and Damien Cox.

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06-12-2010, 06:58 PM
  #31
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I've written about this a million times. To be honest, stuff like this article doesn't even bother me anymore. I see a writer start down that path and think "Oh, this is going to be one of those lazy cookie-cutter articles that somebody writes when they don't have anything interesting to say, I can skip it and move on to something else". That system works pretty well for me.

Bottom line: A lot of these guys (not all, but a lot) have either never been a sports fan, or haven't been a fan in so long, that they don't remotely understand what being a fan is all about. Making arugments like "fans should only cheer for teams that are winning" makes sense to them. Pay as much attention to them as you do to the guy at your office who doesn't care about sports but still tries to trashtalk you. None.

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06-12-2010, 07:28 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
As usual they point a finger at MLSE when failing to realize that all merchandizing revenue goes to the NHL for equal distribution not the individual teams. i.e Toronto benefits from sales of Crosby jerseys/sweaters.

In general most Toronto sports writers are very weak at 1) common sense and 2) facts.

As the poster above says it is much easier to be critical and second guess than deal with reality. It is the same reason comedians pick constantly on politicians, they are easy targets.

Oh how I long for the good old days when we had icons like Milt Dunnell, Trent Frayne, Red Burnett, Scott Young (father of Neil) heck even Dick Beddoes as journalists.

Todays crop does not do their homework, and always take the easy route. (negative no matter what the truth is)
Actually it is the fans that are weak and lack common sense.

Hockey is a business first. Repeat this.....Hockey is a business first. Selling tickets, merchandise, concessions, parking is first.

You support a losing team because you have an emotional connection this does not mean you use common sense. You are connected to a "logo".

Denial is not far behind, because of your emotional connection, denial of reality is necessary to continue to believe.

With that in mind winning is hard to do. 29 other teams that are in business with the leafs, need to win to keep profits flowing. With the Leafs this is not necessary to keep profits at number 1.

30 teams are in business together. There can only be one winner of the championship at the end. However, if you realize (not likely) that a successful season means that you made money, hopefully a lot.

Philadelphia were even with Chicago because they maximized profits. (play the same number of playoff games.

Players are in business also as a group, with a collective bargaining agreement. They to try to maximize profits....move from team to team seeking the most money possible.

Sundin could have won a Stanley cup, but, he chose to stay with non playoff Toronto.....So he could have time off before he searched out another team 10 months later. Kind of gave it away didn't it.

Remember it is all about getting rich....players....owners, agents. and keeping the fans emotionally hooked.

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06-12-2010, 07:40 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf1389 View Post
A couple things here

1. I'm not sure exactly what the reporters expect of corporation the size of MLSE. I read a quote along the lines last week that the only goal they had was putting smiles on the faces of teachers pension fund. This is what they should be doing, they are working for a return for their investors. The perplexing part about quotes like this, and even Richard Peddie has addressed it, the return on investment for teachers pension if the Leafs were good and drew playoff revenue would be exponentially higher than what it is when they are either bad or average.

2. I remember back in the 70's and 80's when most of the Toronto based media was pretty much in bed with Harold Ballard, who was more interested in being the life of the party and maintaining his headline status, than building a winning hockey team. It seems like all of the media has gone the complete opposite direction now, where all that is written is critical or negative, the worst being Howard Berger and Damien Cox.
I agree with you Maximize profits and build the teachers fund up.

You have to realize that these reporters cannot be bought off by owners like they could in the bad old days. These guys get a glimps of the way things really are not what they wish it was.

That being said, I feel the leafs are trying to put the best product on the ice they can. With 29 other teams seeking the same thing it becomes very difficult.

Some teams fall out of the playoffs for a while and gather up first rounders that can equal how Chicago managed to get some good young players.

The Leafs can come close to the playoffs and keep fans happy and never quite get that diamond in the first round.

Judging teenage talent is extremely difficult, when you weigh in injuries, maturity, dedication, growth, how stable they are, girls, temptations ....booze, drugs, over confidence...so many factors that all teams have to decide and hope they guess right.

Ballard was honest in one sense, he was in it for the money. He actually was too honest, because, to day they are doing the same thing. They are just smoother about it.

The Stanley cup is elusive and you have to have luck and skill on your side. Making money is a lot easier...one round or two can make a very successful season.

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06-12-2010, 07:55 PM
  #34
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I honestly don't care anymore what the Toronto media writes about the Leafs because no matter what it will always be something negative. I mean lets say next year the Leafs win the Stanley Cup in 5 games, would the headline be in the Toronto Star by Damien Cox why couldn't they win in 4 straight games. So I am just going to keep enjoying being a Leafs fan and that's it.

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06-12-2010, 07:57 PM
  #35
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There is something about the logo that hypnotizes people into becoming irrational. The mixture of colours and artwork.

All teams have well thought out colours that can make a person lose all perspective.

If you have been brought up to be seduced by this there is not much you can do.

Somewhere around 9 or 10 you get hooked on this well thought out logo.

It can make you believe and not use common sense. You get a feeling of euphoria and it can bring back memories of a simpler time in your life.

When the team fails, you fail in a sense, although you play no part in it.

When the team succeeds you succeed, although you play no part.

You pay your money, you watch their games, you cry and you laugh. All because of a logo. You blame, and you become angry and you feel let down and cheated when they finally lose.

But, alas, there is next year....new hope....this will be the year.

The rich get richer.....players move on, retire, become multi millionaires and bask in past glories.

Aw yes....all because of a logo.....if Toronto sent all their players to Tampa Bay.....and Tampa Bay sent all there players to Toronto....you would cheer for the logo and forget the players that left.

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06-12-2010, 08:05 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleLeafsFan2010 View Post
I honestly don't care anymore what the Toronto media writes about the Leafs because no matter what it will always be something negative. I mean lets say next year the Leafs win the Stanley Cup in 5 games, would the headline be in the Toronto Star by Damien Cox why couldn't they win in 4 straight games. So I am just going to keep enjoying being a Leafs fan and that's it.
Now you are just being silly.

First of all they would have to play at least 16 games.

You go ahead and enjoy yourself. If being a Leaf fan brings you joy.....well that is nice isn't it.

If they win a few great, if they win the Stanley cup that would be super great.

But, in the mean time, that is a mighty big hill to climb. If they were to win the "cup" what about the year after. Would you be satisfied with the "cup" or would you long for another one.

Remember, when you finally make it to the top of the hill, you might just say "is that all there is"

Maybe the fantasy is greater then the actual experience.

Leafs won 4 cups in 7 years in the early 60's and it was a bit of a yawn to be honest. The thrill gradually leaves after the first one.

The second time it is again.....great...whats for supper

The third time again.......like wow....pass the beans.

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06-12-2010, 08:10 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willalong View Post
Now you are just being silly.

First of all they would have to play at least 16 games.

You go ahead and enjoy yourself. If being a Leaf fan brings you joy.....well that is nice isn't it.

If they win a few great, if they win the Stanley cup that would be super great.

But, in the mean time, that is a mighty big hill to climb. If they were to win the "cup" what about the year after. Would you be satisfied with the "cup" or would you long for another one.

Remember, when you finally make it to the top of the hill, you might just say "is that all there is"

Maybe the fantasy is greater then the actual experience.

Leafs won 4 cups in 7 years in the early 60's and it was a bit of a yawn to be honest. The thrill gradually leaves after the first one.

The second time it is again.....great...whats for supper

The third time again.......like wow....pass the beans.
I know you need 16 wins to win the Stanley Cup, but if you were smart you would realize I was just talking about them playing in the Finals and winning in 5 games, then the media would say why not win it in 4 games.

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06-12-2010, 08:14 PM
  #38
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As much as it irks me to say this, the article brings up some very good points.

The Leaf fan base doesn't want things to change. The MLSE BOG brandish tradition and a rich history but really do nothing to shake up the on ice product except hire some already rich people to put their twist on the way they skate.

Nothing is going to change unless like the previous post states we happen to run into some serious luck/skill. For crying out loud, I've been listening to people over the last 2 years ***** about the lack of t horizontal lines on a ****ing sweater !!!

Wake the **** up, our team sucks (noticed I said OUR !!). The rich are getting richer and MLSE is feeding us garbage year in and year out. If this was actually food and the company (let's use Kraft for example) was feeding you sub-standard food for the past 40 years with a 7 or 8 years thrown in of quality meat in there, would you keep buying from them??

I'm a fan, I own A jersey with no ones name on it (No one man is a TEAM) and that will be the extent of my spending with MLSE. The last game I paid for was a playoff game and I don't plan on buying another ticket until it is for a playoff game again. I pay for my cable and I get all the games with my service and that is where the buck stops.

Please be a smart fan and realize that the corporation that you are pouring countless dollars into is putting 2 lines in a sweater for you and that's it. They didn't even offer a contest to the City of Toronto for the fans to come up with a new one or take some cash out to hire someone to create one.

Two lines.

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06-12-2010, 08:20 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by MapleLeafsFan2010 View Post
I know you need 16 wins to win the Stanley Cup, but if you were smart you would realize I was just talking about them playing in the Finals and winning in 5 games, then the media would say why not win it in 4 games.
You should realise that not all people are not as smart as you. I tried to follow your arguement and I failed. I though you were saying the leafs could win the cup in 5 games.

The media is not the enemy here. You should not be afraid of the truth, it shall set you free.

You can believe what you want and ignore the rest. If the media is as bad as you say, why would you read the stories.

Just believe what you wish and ignore the rest. I think they should come out with 8 new sweaters and every month change to a new one.

That is my opinion, make as much money as you can, BALLARD FOR EVER.

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06-12-2010, 08:23 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by willalong View Post
You should realise that not all people are not as smart as you. I tried to follow your arguement and I failed. I though you were saying the leafs could win the cup in 5 games.

The media is not the enemy here. You should not be afraid of the truth, it shall set you free.

You can believe what you want and ignore the rest. If the media is as bad as you say, why would you read the stories.

Just believe what you wish and ignore the rest. I think they should come out with 8 new sweaters and every month change to a new one.

That is my opinion, make as much money as you can, BALLARD FOR EVER.
I try not to read their stories but it's hard not to hear all the crap they say, when I hear guys like Bill Watters or Bob McCown on the radip bash every move the Leafs make or are rumoured to be making.

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06-12-2010, 08:27 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BlueBomber76 View Post
As much as it irks me to say this, the article brings up some very good points.

The Leaf fan base doesn't want things to change. The MLSE BOG brandish tradition and a rich history but really do nothing to shake up the on ice product except hire some already rich people to put their twist on the way they skate.

Nothing is going to change unless like the previous post states we happen to run into some serious luck/skill. For crying out loud, I've been listening to people over the last 2 years ***** about the lack of t horizontal lines on a ****ing sweater !!!

Wake the **** up, our team sucks (noticed I said OUR !!). The rich are getting richer and MLSE is feeding us garbage year in and year out. If this was actually food and the company (let's use Kraft for example) was feeding you sub-standard food for the past 40 years with a 7 or 8 years thrown in of quality meat in there, would you keep buying from them??

I'm a fan, I own A jersey with no ones name on it (No one man is a TEAM) and that will be the extent of my spending with MLSE. The last game I paid for was a playoff game and I don't plan on buying another ticket until it is for a playoff game again. I pay for my cable and I get all the games with my service and that is where the buck stops.

Please be a smart fan and realize that the corporation that you are pouring countless dollars into is putting 2 lines in a sweater for you and that's it. They didn't even offer a contest to the City of Toronto for the fans to come up with a new one or take some cash out to hire someone to create one.

Two lines.
This is absolutely retarded. They hired one of the best GMs in the league and gave him full autonomy. The only thing you have to complain about at this point is ticket prices, but I can't for life of me see how last year was because of MLSE.

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06-12-2010, 08:29 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BlueBomber76 View Post
As much as it irks me to say this, the article brings up some very good points.

The Leaf fan base doesn't want things to change. The MLSE BOG brandish tradition and a rich history but really do nothing to shake up the on ice product except hire some already rich people to put their twist on the way they skate.

Nothing is going to change unless like the previous post states we happen to run into some serious luck/skill. For crying out loud, I've been listening to people over the last 2 years ***** about the lack of t horizontal lines on a ****ing sweater !!!

Wake the **** up, our team sucks (noticed I said OUR !!). The rich are getting richer and MLSE is feeding us garbage year in and year out. If this was actually food and the company (let's use Kraft for example) was feeding you sub-standard food for the past 40 years with a 7 or 8 years thrown in of quality meat in there, would you keep buying from them??

I'm a fan, I own A jersey with no ones name on it (No one man is a TEAM) and that will be the extent of my spending with MLSE. The last game I paid for was a playoff game and I don't plan on buying another ticket until it is for a playoff game again. I pay for my cable and I get all the games with my service and that is where the buck stops.

Please be a smart fan and realize that the corporation that you are pouring countless dollars into is putting 2 lines in a sweater for you and that's it. They didn't even offer a contest to the City of Toronto for the fans to come up with a new one or take some cash out to hire someone to create one.

Two lines.
I disagree with some of your points.

The leaf fan base does want a winner.

The management wants a winner.

So far they can only win where it matters, in hard cold cash. Not to shabby.

There lives would be easier if they could get a double win in cash and on the ice.

They are trying to win on the ice.

They change the sweaters and make another few Million dollars......sweet.

If they can pull it off, more power to them.

By buying the television package and playoff ticket you have done your share to ensure the money keeps rolling in.

Emotional fans will buy them sweaters and stick names and numbers on the back and there will be millions of them under the Christmas tree for Johnny and Billy this year.

Millions, I tell you, it cannot be stopped, there is something in the water. go leafs sweaters go....right off the shelves.

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06-12-2010, 08:34 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by willalong View Post
You should realise that not all people are not as smart as you. I tried to follow your arguement and I failed. I though you were saying the leafs could win the cup in 5 games.

The media is not the enemy here. You should not be afraid of the truth, it shall set you free.

You can believe what you want and ignore the rest. If the media is as bad as you say, why would you read the stories.

Just believe what you wish and ignore the rest. I think they should come out with 8 new sweaters and every month change to a new one.

That is my opinion, make as much money as you can, BALLARD FOR EVER.
His logic was perfectly clear and if you couldn't follow it well, I think it says a lot about you.

The same media that criticizes fans for continuing to come out to Leafs games when they lose criticizes fans for not going to Blue Jay games when the Jays are not winning. They tell people they should be going out to the ball park and enjoying the good things about the Jays. Is their a reason that Leafs fans can't do the same?

And as for reading overly negative stories, it's often interesting to read what others are saying about something that you are interested in.

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06-12-2010, 08:48 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
His logic was perfectly clear and if you couldn't follow it well, I think it says a lot about you.

The same media that criticizes fans for continuing to come out to Leafs games when they lose criticizes fans for not going to Blue Jay games when the Jays are not winning. They tell people they should be going out to the ball park and enjoying the good things about the Jays. Is their a reason that Leafs fans can't do the same?

And as for reading overly negative stories, it's often interesting to read what others are saying about something that you are interested in.
I agree with everything you said.

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06-12-2010, 09:24 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
His logic was perfectly clear and if you couldn't follow it well, I think it says a lot about you.

The same media that criticizes fans for continuing to come out to Leafs games when they lose criticizes fans for not going to Blue Jay games when the Jays are not winning. They tell people they should be going out to the ball park and enjoying the good things about the Jays. Is their a reason that Leafs fans can't do the same?

And as for reading overly negative stories, it's often interesting to read what others are saying about something that you are interested in.
Do you really think I couldn't follow what he was trying to say. The fact that if flew over your head says a lot about how niave you are.

Yes, negative stories are interesting, makes you read the paper, make you buy the newspaper.

Always comes back to money.

Actually talking about winning the Stanley cup next year was real defiance of logic.

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06-12-2010, 09:35 PM
  #46
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Talk about biting the hand that feeds you...

When Rob Longley writes stuff like "the sucker populace that canít get enough of a losing team", doesn't it dawn on him that the only reason he has a job is because of us "suckers"?

This is Toronto, where the Leafs rule the sports scene. Why else would the SUN run pages of coverage about the Leafs all season long? When Dion is named captain, it will be on the front page of the sports section, no matter what the Jays do. Longley, Simmons, Zeizberger, Hornby, they all make a damned good living because of our endless appetite for anything to do with our Buds.

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06-13-2010, 06:14 AM
  #47
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Everybody should be happy then.

Championships are not really necessary to keep fans happy.

Negative reporting sells papers.

Never give up, always keep the faith, always dig deep into those wallets and buy buy...buy.

Leafs get a new captain...big news in July....can't beat that. Easy money all the way around, keep the Leafs in the news. People will eat it up.

Raise ticket prices, make new sweaters, good for all.

Never, ever gets old.

A win for all.

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06-13-2010, 06:49 AM
  #48
Timmer
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Originally Posted by The Nic View Post
The reason to get excited about a new sweater being unveiled on Monday is that the current one is lousy... perhaps one of the worst in the league. It has properly been referred to as a "t-shirt" from day one.


Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

Nic, you need to stop making sense.
That doesn't always go ever so well in these forums.

This new sweater should have happened two years ago! At least!

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Old
06-13-2010, 10:41 AM
  #49
willalong
 
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Originally Posted by Timmer View Post
Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

Nic, you need to stop making sense.
That doesn't always go ever so well in these forums.

This new sweater should have happened two years ago! At least!
Stop making sense and start spending your cents. I say a new sweater every month to keep the "Leaf economy" flourishing.

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Old
06-13-2010, 11:22 AM
  #50
wildburns*
 
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Originally Posted by The Nic View Post
This thread isn't about today's lead article in the Sun's Sports section, which was mainly about Dion Phaneuf's impending captaincy. I decided to create this thread when I read the following paragraph...

"To appease the beancounters at MLSE, Mondayís event will feature a couple other notable developments. First, the team will unveil a re-tooled jersey which, if nothing else, will increase sales from the sucker populace that canít get enough of a losing team."

I know that there have been many hundreds of threads written about the overwhelmingly negative attitudes of the writers and commentators in this town regarding the Maple Leafs. To be fair, I have never considered the writer of today's article (Rob Longley) to be anywhere near the worst of these offenders.

Something about the statement quoted above just made something snap in my mind. It pre-supposes that fans of any particular team are making a conscious decision to support it - a decision that should be made and re-made on a constant basis depending upon the playing success of the team. I think that this type of thinking is preposterous. You are a fan of the Maple Leafs (or any team for that matter) because of where you were born, where you live, who's games you went to with your father when you were a kid, who's results you lived and died with along with your friends when you were growing up. The team doesn't earn the right to be in your heart, it just is.

God knows how I hated the kids in school who liked the Bruins, Habs, Flyers, Oilers or whomever happened to be dominant at any particular time. That's not being a true fan in my mind... that's being bandwagoneer. Hell - there are soccer clubs in England that haven't won anything in over a hundred years who still have thousands of rabid supporters behind them. Why? Simply because the team represents their hometown and they have pride in the place that they're from.

Do I wish that the Leafs were getting better results on the ice in recent years? Damn straight I do. Do I hope that a recovery starts to happen in 2010/2011? Absolutely. Will I stop being a fan if this doesn't happen? That's just impossible. Will I be buying one of the nice new jerseys when they come out? Probably not... but I will quite likely buy one for my daughter. I would be ashamed if she ever wanted to own the sweater of any other hockey club. This is Toronto... and we're Leafs fans here. Doesn't matter whether or not the team wins or it loses. They're our team and we support them. We are happy when they're good... and we retain hope for better days ahead when they're not.

Somebody needs to explain the concept of being a fan to all of the jackals in the local media who act as though Leafs fans are suckers or morons simply because they retain their affection for the team no matter what happens. I say that... for anyone that has even an ounce of integrity... this is just the way that it has to be. You don't stop loving your parents, your brothers and sisters, your kids, your friends, your hometown, your country or anything else that really means something to you. You don't stop loving your hockey team either.
see that bolded part, some believe the current ownership makes that less and less true with each passing day.

i dont believe the toronto maple leafs represent the community of toronto at anymore, at least not in the fashion i think a sports club should represent the community.

it ought to be an avenue of enjoyment and support for EVERYONE. go to a game youll realize straight away some poor kid from regent likely isnt sitting anywhere at the game.

you referenced english football, well, in the good old days, before north american commercialization infested their beautiful game, football was an avenue for protest and discontent with a terrible status quo in 70s and 80s england. it represent social order. now, its slowly turning into NFL sunday with ownership of teams and ticket being sold not to the community of life long supporters, just to the highest bidder.

that is the reason for us to blindly hand them our money could be called stupid. because they see us as customers and for other than our wallets, as utterly useless to the hockey club.

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