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06-16-2010, 10:44 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
ill repeat again

the goalie market is flooded. returns like you think your gonna get aint gonna happen

such pointless debate
I disagree.

Yes the market is flooded, but it isn't flooded with 22 year old RFAs who have been starters before.

Sure a team can go with Dan Ellis, but he's 30 and the most games he's played in a season is 44. Or if they want to save money they can go with a young guy like Cory Schneider who has played a total of 10 NHL games so far.

There are a slew of goalies available, but none with the combination of youth and experience like Price and Halak. I bet they get quite the return, especially since the Habs are not even forced to deal one at this point.

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06-16-2010, 10:57 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I disagree.

Yes the market is flooded, but it isn't flooded with 22 year old RFAs who have been starters before.

Sure a team can go with Dan Ellis, but he's 30 and the most games he's played in a season is 44. Or if they want to save money they can go with a young guy like Cory Schneider who has played a total of 10 NHL games so far.

There are a slew of goalies available, but none with the combination of youth and experience like Price and Halak. I bet they get quite the return, especially since the Habs are not even forced to deal one at this point.
Exactly.

It isn't flooded with young goalies with NHL experience that can lead your team for the next ten years.

The goalies out there are 1B options for starters, and mostly back up.

Turco has won nothing and has been on great teams.

Ellis is a good goalie, but he a potential back up with an emerging goalie coming in, perfect example Rinne.

Biron at this stage is a back up, Theo too.

Nabakov is going to be costly, and he too has choked on good teams.

Montreal is a perfect situation. They have two young good goalies at 25 and 22 who a team can get at a great price to their cap and who they can build around in a situation for the future or win now.

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06-16-2010, 11:00 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I disagree.

Yes the market is flooded, but it isn't flooded with 22 year old RFAs who have been starters before.

Sure a team can go with Dan Ellis, but he's 30 and the most games he's played in a season is 44. Or if they want to save money they can go with a young guy like Cory Schneider who has played a total of 10 NHL games so far.

There are a slew of goalies available, but none with the combination of youth and experience like Price and Halak. I bet they get quite the return, especially since the Habs are not even forced to deal one at this point.
slice it any way you want and of course habs fans will always point out the positives of aquring price and halak. the age and potential are factors, but not experience, please. winning 3 series combined= experience? only in habs land.

and to get one of them you have to deal assets. Nabokov, tho, turco, ellis, biron, leighton, etc etc can all be had for free. not to mention schneider, harding, quick, bernier, thomas, who are all on the market.

point is, if gauthier wants too much for these 2, there are plenty of options for gm's. Granted, you can argue you that Halak is coming off a great playoff and all that jazz, but teams will not make a blockbuster trade to acquire him. They will settle for a cheaper, less sexy goalie which wont cost them anything.

And like ive posted many many times, look in history, goalies never and i mean never get good or what some deem "fair" market value. There is alot of talent out there and only 60 regular NHL places.

Big centers/wingers with scoring touch are the assets that are hard to find and very difficult to acquire

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06-16-2010, 11:10 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Exactly.

It isn't flooded with young goalies with NHL experience that can lead your team for the next ten years.

The goalies out there are 1B options for starters, and mostly back up.

Turco has won nothing and has been on great teams.

Ellis is a good goalie, but he a potential back up with an emerging goalie coming in, perfect example Rinne.

Biron at this stage is a back up, Theo too.

Nabakov is going to be costly, and he too has choked on good teams.

Montreal is a perfect situation. They have two young good goalies at 25 and 22 who a team can get at a great price to their cap and who they can build around in a situation for the future or win now.
eesh, you guys are really delusional. First if you believe one of these guys can lead your team for the next 10 years, why trade them??

And experience is a term thrown around. This was Halak's first time starting 35+games (maybe 2nd), not even a full season and his first as a starting goalie in the playoffs, and now he has the label of experienced goalie??


Turco has won nothing, coincidentally neither has Halak or price. And will be dirt cheap.
Ellis can put up starting goalie numbers. Just cause Rinne beat him out dosent make his numbers or potential as a starter any less.

Theo won 30+ games last year, but now hes a back-up...hmm...he was good enough to be the starter all year for the conference champs. Granted, i cant see him starting 60+ games, but he can serve as a 1b with most teams needing a goalie.

Nabokov has choked in big games...sure has, but so have Halak and Price.

Point being, we live in Montreal, so people are delusional when it comes to expectations and what other teams are willing to trade for him.

Nobody wanted Halak this year, not even a 2nd rounder. And because he played 2 great series, now he is worth a Carter, Ryan, Setoguchi, Berglund, etc etc...i mean lets get real a second.

Im just foreseeing alot of tears and face palms if Gauthier trades one for a mid-range draft pick or unproven up-comer.

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06-16-2010, 11:44 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
eesh, you guys are really delusional. First if you believe one of these guys can lead your team for the next 10 years, why trade them??

And experience is a term thrown around. This was Halak's first time starting 35+games (maybe 2nd), not even a full season and his first as a starting goalie in the playoffs, and now he has the label of experienced goalie??


Turco has won nothing, coincidentally neither has Halak or price. And will be dirt cheap.
Ellis can put up starting goalie numbers. Just cause Rinne beat him out dosent make his numbers or potential as a starter any less.

Theo won 30+ games last year, but now hes a back-up...hmm...he was good enough to be the starter all year for the conference champs. Granted, i cant see him starting 60+ games, but he can serve as a 1b with most teams needing a goalie.

Nabokov has choked in big games...sure has, but so have Halak and Price.

Point being, we live in Montreal, so people are delusional when it comes to expectations and what other teams are willing to trade for him.

Nobody wanted Halak this year, not even a 2nd rounder. And because he played 2 great series, now he is worth a Carter, Ryan, Setoguchi, Berglund, etc etc...i mean lets get real a second.

Im just foreseeing alot of tears and face palms if Gauthier trades one for a mid-range draft pick or unproven up-comer.
maybe you should try to compare Price/Halak to other goalies below 30 that will be available comes July 1st...

no matter what they did before I can safely bet my house none of them will be in the league 8/10 years from now... can you say the same for Price/Halak ?

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06-16-2010, 11:51 PM
  #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Kovalchuk 7M$ - Gomez 7.3M$ - Gionta 5M$
Cammalleri 6M$ - Plekanec 3.5M$

30M$ just for our top 5? Are you out of your mind?
Don't be so melodramatic. Do you know how many teams spend $30M on their top 5 players?
1.San Jose:Heatley7.5,Thornton7.2,Boyle6.667,Marleau6.3, Nabokov5.375=33.042

2.New York:Gaborik7.5,Drury7.05,Lundqvist6.875,Redden6.5 ,Rozsival5=32.925

3.Pittsburg :Crosby8.7,Malkin8.7,Gonchar5,Fleury5,Staal4=31.4

4.Montreal:Gomez7.357,Kovalchuk7,Cammalleri6,Marko v5.75,Gionta5=31.107

5.Detroit:Lidstrom7.4,Datsyuk6.7,Zetterberg6.083,R afalski6,Franzen3.955=30.138

6.Philadelphia:Briere6.365,Timonen6.33,Pronger6.25 ,Richards5.75,Gagne5.25=29.945


Under my roster Montreal would come in fourth after San Jose, New York, and Pittsburg in terms of highest cap hit to their top 5 players.

If you want good players you have to spend money.

We could be getting bargains cap-hit-wise on Kovalchuk, Plekanec, and Halak if we offer long term front loaded contracts.

Here's my plans for Montreal 2010-2011; I have it posted on The Trade Proposal Thread ‎2010 (part 3); I know it would require a lot of luck and hard negotiations to achieve this roster, but it is within the realm of possibility:

Ufa's:Ilya Kovalchuk, Eric Belanger, Johnny Boychuk, Evgeny Artyukhin, Biron

Major Signings:
1.Kovalchuk(7x14yrs=$98=11.75+11.75+11.75+11.25+11 +9+8+5.25+5+5+5+2.25+.5+.5)
2.Tomas Plekanec(3.5x11yrs=$38.5=6+5.5+5+5+4.5+4.25+3.25+2 .25+1.25+1+.5)
3.Jaroslav Halak(4.2x13yrs=$54.6=6.75+5.5+5+5+5+5+5+5+5+3+2.3 5+1.5+.5)
4.Johnny Boychuk(2x5yrs=$10=1.75+2+2+2+2.25)
5.Eric Belanger (1.625x4yrs=$6.5=2+2+1.5+1)

Montreal Canadiens 2010-2011 Roster:

Forwards:
Kovalchuk(7x14yrs=$98=11.75+11.75+11.75+11.25+11+9 +8+5.25+5+5+5+2.25+.5+.5)-Tomas Plekanec(3.5x11yrs=$38.5=6+5.5+5+5+4.5+4.25+3.25+2 .25+1.25+1+.5)-Cammy(6)
Pouliot(.9)-Gomez(7.3)-Gionta(5)
Moore(1.1x3yrs=3.3=1.2+1.1+1)-Eric Belanger (1.625x4yrs=2+2+1.5+1=6.5)-Pyatt(.850)
Moen(1.5)- Lapierre(.805)-Artyukhin(.94x2yrs=1.88)
Laraques buy-out(.500)

Defensemen:
Markov(5.75)-Subban(.875)
Spacek(3.83)-Johnny Boychuk(2x5yrs=10=1.75+2+2+2+2.25)
Gill(2.25)-Gorges(1.1)
O'Byrne(.94)

Goaltender:
Jaroslav Halak(4.2x13yrs=54.6=6.75+5.5+5+5+5+5+5+5+5+3+2.35 +1.5+.5)
Biron(.775x4yrs=1+.8+.7+.6=3.1)
Total:~58.74

Trades dealing with salary dumps and picking up prospects and picks:

to Tampa Bay: Carey Price, Yannick Weber, Harmlik
to Montreal:Alex Hutchings, Tampa Bay Lightning 2010 first round pick 6th

Trade with Ottawa or New York or Phoenix Coyotes for a higher 1st round draft pick:
to Ottawa Sanators: Andrei Kostitsyn, Cedrick Desjardins, Montreal Canadiens 2010 1st round pick 27th
to Montreal: Ottawa Senators 2010 first round pick 16th
or
to New York: Andrei Kostitsyn, Cedrick Desjardins, Montreal Canadiens 2010 1st round pick 27th
to Montreal: New York rangers 2010 first round pick 12th
or
to Phoenix Coyotes: Andrei Kostitsyn, Cedrick Desjardins, Montreal Canadiens 2010 1st round pick 27th
to Montreal: Phoenix Coyotes 2010 firs round pick 13th

to Edmonton: Sergie Kostitsyn, Montreal 2010 2nd round pick 57
to Montreal: Edmonton 2010 2nd round pick(31)

Draft Picks:
2010 draft picks and other prospects: 6th: Erik Gudbranson Shoots: Right (D)/or Brandon Gormley ;12th-16th: Mark Pysyk Shoots: Right (D)/or Dylan McIlrath Shoots: Right (D);Alex Hutchings(LW); 31st: Kabanov


Last edited by Smoke Monster: 06-17-2010 at 02:33 AM.
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06-16-2010, 11:57 PM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke Monster View Post
Don't be so melodramatic. Do you know how many teams spend $30M on their top 5 players?
1.San Jose:Heatley7.5,Thornton7.2,Boyle6.667,Marleau6.3, Nabokov5.375=33.042

2.New York:Gaborik7.5,Drury7.05,Lundqvist6.875,Redden6.5 ,Rozsival5=32.925

3.Pittsburg :Crosby8.7,Malkin8.7,Gonchar5,Fleury5,Staal4=31.4

4.Montreal:Gomez7.357,Kovalchuk7,Cammalleri6,Marko v5.75,Gionta5=31.107

5.Detroit:Lidstrom7.4,Datsyuk6.7,Zetterberg6.083,R afalski6,Franzen3.955=30.138

6.Philadelphia:Briere6.365,Timonen6.33,Pronger6.25 ,Richards5.75,Gagne5.25=29.945


Under my roster Montreal would come in fourth after San Jose, New York, and Pittsburg in terms of highest cap hit to their top 5 players.

If you want good players you have to spend money.

We could be getting bargains cap-hit-wise on Kovalchuk, Plekanec, and Halak if we offer long term front loaded contracts.

Here's my plans for Montreal 2010-2011; I have it posted on The Trade Proposal Thread ‎2010 (part 3); I know it would require a lot of luck and hard negotiations to achieve this roster, but it is within the realm of possibility:

to Tampa Bay: Carey Price, Yannick Weber, Harmlik
to Montreal:Alex Hutchings, Tampa Bay Lightning 2010 first round pick 6th

Ufa's:Ilya Kovalchuk, Eric Belanger, Johnny Boychuk, Evgeny Artyukhin, Biron

Major Signings:
1.Kovalchuk(7x15yrs=$105=11.75+11.75+11.75+11+11+1 1+ 10+9+7+5+3.25+1+.5+.5+.5)
2.Tomas Plekanec(3.5x12yrs=$42=6+5.5+5+5+5+4.5+3.5+3+2.5+1 + .5+.5)
3.Jaroslav Halak(4.2x15yrs=$63=7+7+7+7+7+7+7+6.75+2.75+1.5+1+ . 5+.5+.5+.5)
4.Johnny Boychuk(2x5yrs=$10=1.75+2+2+2+2.25)
5.Eric Belanger (1.625x4yrs=$6.5=2+2+1.5+1)

Montreal Canadiens 2010-2011 Roster:

Forwards:
Kovalchuk(7x15yrs=$105=11.75+11.75+11.75+11+11+11+ 10+9+7+5+3.25+1+.5+.5+.5)-Tomas Plekanec(3.5x12yrs=42=6+5.5+5+5+5+4.5+3.5+3+2.5+1+ .5+.5)-Cammy(6)
Pouliot(.9)-Gomez(7.3)-Gionta(5)
Moore(1.1x3yrs=3.3=1.2+1.1+1)-Eric Belanger (1.625x4yrs=2+2+1.5+1=6.5)-Pyatt(.850)
Moen(1.5)- Lapierre(.805)-Artyukhin(.94x2yrs=1.88)
Laraques buy-out(.500)

Defensemen:
Markov(5.75)-Subban(.875)
Spacek(3.83)-Johnny Boychuk(2x5yrs=10=1.75+2+2+2+2.25)
Gill(2.25)-Gorges(1.1)
O'Byrne(.94)

Goaltender:
Jaroslav Halak(4.2x15yrs=63=7+7+7+7+7+7+7+6.75+2.75+1.5+1+. 5+.5+.5+.5)
Biron(.775x4yrs=1+.8+.7+.6=3.1)
Total:~58.74

Trades dealing with picking up prospects and picks:

Trade with Ottawa or New York or Phoenix Coyotes for a higher 1st round draft pick:
to Ottawa Sanators: Andrei Kostitsyn, Cedrick Desjardins, Montreal Canadiens 2010 1st round pick 27th
to Montreal: Ottawa Senators 2010 first round pick 16th
or
to New York: Andrei Kostitsyn, Cedrick Desjardins, Montreal Canadiens 2010 1st round pick 27th
to Montreal: New York rangers 2010 first round pick 12th
or
to Phoenix Coyotes: Andrei Kostitsyn, Cedrick Desjardins, Montreal Canadiens 2010 1st round pick 27th
to Montreal: Phoenix Coyotes 2010 firs round pick 13th

to Edmonton: Sergie Kostitsyn, Montreal 2010 2nd round pick 57
to Montreal: Edmonton 2010 2nd round pick(31)

Draft Picks:
2010 draft picks and other prospects: 6th: Erik Gudbranson Shoots: Right (D)/or Brandon Gormley ;12th-16th: Mark Pysyk Shoots: Right (D)/or Dylan McIlrath Shoots: Right (D);Alex Hutchings(LW); 31st: Kabanov
That must have been a monster smoke you did...because this is pure...I don't know the word...not within the realm of possibility at all?

Would I love to move up ya...Will other teams take our struggling players and pieces for them...NOPE

Do I want 10+ year front loaded contracts on forwards who are already past their mid twenties and aren't generational talents...NOPE

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06-17-2010, 12:17 AM
  #383
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Can someone explain to me what the real value of front loading a contracts is?

I mean is a 10+ year contract at a 6.5 cap hit really safer/more beneficial than a 4 year contract at 7.5 cap hit? In a cap era, particularly something so volatile like sports, wouldn't having the more flexible payroll be more beneficial than saving a few bucks in exchange for a long and guaranteed contract?

I can see the benefit of signing a long term front loaded contract to young studs like Richards, Ovechkin or Kane, ect., but someone like Kovalchuk or Lecavalier, it doesn't make sense to me.

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06-17-2010, 12:18 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Pleks for 12 years? Whaaaa?
Tomas Plekanec(3.5x11yrs=$38.5=6+5.5+5+5+4.5+4.25+3.25+2 .25+1.25+1+.5)

er, 11 years?

Why you ask?

With a long term contract we can get him at an affordable cap hit. If he's not effective anymore than it will be in his interest to retire and thereby erasing his cap hit.


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06-17-2010, 12:22 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Smoke Monster View Post
Tomas Plekanec(3.5x12yrs=$42=6+5.5+5+5+5+4.5+3.5+3+2.5+1 + .5+.5)

12 years?

Why you ask?

With a long term contract we can get him at a affordable cap hit. If he does not retire by the time he reaches 35 we can buy him out with a minor cap hit.
So what happens if Plekanec slumps again, and posts 40 points in two seasons in a row? Now we are stuck with a player with little to no value with 10 years remaining on his contract. Plekanec has shown nothing to give him that kind of long term, that could be very detrimental to the club.

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06-17-2010, 12:37 AM
  #386
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
So what happens if Plekanec slumps again, and posts 40 points in two seasons in a row? Now we are stuck with a player with little to no value with 10 years remaining on his contract. Plekanec has shown nothing to give him that kind of long term, that could be very detrimental to the club.
This could be asked about most of the young players who sign for 10+ years...

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06-17-2010, 12:39 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
This could be asked about most of the young players who sign for 10+ years...
Not when you have concrete evidence to suggest that they will continue on their current trend. Plekanec does not have that evidence, while players like Richards and Ovechkin do.

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06-17-2010, 12:47 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Smoke Monster View Post
Tomas Plekanec(3.5x12yrs=$42=6+5.5+5+5+5+4.5+3.5+3+2.5+1 + .5+.5)

12 years?

Why you ask?

With a long term contract we can get him at a affordable cap hit. If he does not retire by the time he reaches 35 we can buy him out with a minor cap hit.
there isn't a player on this planet that should be given a 12 year deal. . If a team gives that to a Plekanec or a Kovalchuk, then that team deserves the plague that falls upon them.

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06-17-2010, 03:50 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Smoke Monster View Post
The risk of signing a player to a long term contract is low when he has proven to be non-injury prone and proven to be consistent like Plekanec, Kovalchuk, and Halak. Long term contracts of 11-13 years are not unusual: Ovechkin, Keith, Luongo, Zetterberg, Hossa, Lecavalier. Montreal has to smarten up and take advantage of the cap savings and the corresponding increase of squeezing extra talent per cap hit which these contracts allow.
Are you actually comparing our two players, to the bold ones? That's your problem right there, these two players don't have enough value to the team to lock them up that long, the bold ones do.

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06-17-2010, 04:39 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Smoke Monster View Post
The risk of signing a player to a long term contract is low when he has proven to be non-injury prone and proven to be consistent like Plekanec, Kovalchuk, and Halak. Long term contracts of 11-13 years are not unusual: Ovechkin, Keith, Luongo, Zetterberg, Hossa, Lecavalier. Montreal has to smarten up and take advantage of the cap savings and the corresponding increase of squeezing extra talent per cap hit which these contracts allow.
As was pointed out Plekanec is not the same class of player as those on the bolded list. Also, it's too early in these contracts to understand what effect the contract costs and performance levels will be in the latter stages. Talk to me in year 6 of the Hossa and Lecavalier deals, then tell me the contract strategy was brilliant.

And even if there is a good deal out there, if such deals are common and used as a strategy, all it takes is one long term contract to a Theodore or a Samsonov to negate the shrewdness of all other deals. In a world where signed contracts can't be erased or broken, the 12 year deal is always a potential albatross.

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06-17-2010, 06:29 AM
  #391
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Lol at all the people suggesting we trade Halak. Where would we have been last season without him? Golfing!!!

Instead Halak put on some of the greatest goaltending performances in recent playoff history. He has proven time and time again that he is the more consistent goalie but people still think Price's potential is better.

I honestly feel more comfortable when Halak is in the net and would prefer Price to go. I'm sure he will go on to be a great goalie but Halak is one of those goalies you think all teams will figure out yet he keeps on winning.
It's called asset management, in the NHL cap world you can't just look at the last half season and make hockey decisiopns, you have to look at the big picture.

As a Gm you can't say you'll trade one and not the other, even if you prefer to keep one guy and trade the other, you need to at least be open to moving either guy, depending on the offers and what type of cap hit each will have...plus you have to consider that Halak is 3 years older and entering his prime while Price is only 22. Very few goalies ewnter their prime before 24-25-26.

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06-17-2010, 06:33 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
ill repeat again

the goalie market is flooded. returns like you think your gonna get aint gonna happen

such pointless debate
It's flooded with journeymen and guys on the decline. That's like saying we should let Plekanec walk because the market for centers is flooded with guys like Lombardi Cullen Morrison Madden Weight Wellwood Lang Conroy Metropolit Moore Mair Armstrong Nichol Malhotra Lundmark Yelle Ebbett Hillbert Wallin Jokinen Modano Koivu Higgins...

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06-17-2010, 06:36 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
slice it any way you want and of course habs fans will always point out the positives of aquring price and halak. the age and potential are factors, but not experience, please. winning 3 series combined= experience? only in habs land.

and to get one of them you have to deal assets. Nabokov, tho, turco, ellis, biron, leighton, etc etc can all be had for free. not to mention schneider, harding, quick, bernier, thomas, who are all on the market.

point is, if gauthier wants too much for these 2, there are plenty of options for gm's. Granted, you can argue you that Halak is coming off a great playoff and all that jazz, but teams will not make a blockbuster trade to acquire him. They will settle for a cheaper, less sexy goalie which wont cost them anything.

And like ive posted many many times, look in history, goalies never and i mean never get good or what some deem "fair" market value. There is alot of talent out there and only 60 regular NHL places.

Big centers/wingers with scoring touch are the assets that are hard to find and very difficult to acquire
No they are not, we had too many of them and gave one to Minnesota.

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06-17-2010, 06:53 AM
  #394
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It's called asset management, in the NHL cap world you can't just look at the last half season and make hockey decisiopns, you have to look at the big picture.

As a Gm you can't say you'll trade one and not the other, even if you prefer to keep one guy and trade the other, you need to at least be open to moving either guy, depending on the offers and what type of cap hit each will have...plus you have to consider that Halak is 3 years older and entering his prime while Price is only 22. Very few goalies ewnter their prime before 24-25-26.
Agreed, and to me wether we trade Price or Halak highly depends on what PG think we can do withing the next two or three years, e.g. can we be serious contenders ? if so we keep Halak as he seems to be ready (even though he may have less potential)... if not we keep Price.

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06-17-2010, 06:54 AM
  #395
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06-17-2010, 07:45 AM
  #396
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maybe you should try to compare Price/Halak to other goalies below 30 that will be available comes July 1st...

no matter what they did before I can safely bet my house none of them will be in the league 8/10 years from now... can you say the same for Price/Halak ?
Why? That's the point, these guys can be had for FREE. No one cares where they'll be in 8-10 years. GM's don't have an 8-10 year plan. It's usually 3-5. If signing one of those guys buys you 3-5 years to compete while you develop your own goalie, why would you trade away a young roster player?

What did this years playoffs give GM's the idea this year? That you don't need star goaltending to make it to the finals. And we all know how GM's react on a year by year basis.

Unless you're a team that can truely compete for the cup why give up a piece of your puzzle to get a price/halak and create a void in another position?

And that doesn't even consider the cap value for some teams. There's not a chance in hell, for example, that PHI would trade a Giroux or VanReim (as rumored) for either. These guys have a $.765m and $.875m cap hit next year. So you can apply the same to any young promising player around the league that is still under entry level contract for next season. No team is going to trade a cheap, young, roster player that contributes for price or halak.

So who needs a goalie?
Anh - Hiller. Nope.
Atl - Pavelic. Nope.
Bos - Rask. Nope.
Buff - Miller. NOPE.
Car - Ward. Nope.
Cgy - Kipper. Nope.
Chi - Niemi. Nope
Clb - Mason. Nope.
Col - Anderson. Nope.
Dal - Just got Lehtonen. Nope.
Det - Howard. Nope.
Edm - Bulin. Maybe. If they could offload him. But most likely nope.
Fla - Vokun. Nope.
LA - Quick. Nope.
Min - Backstrom. Nope.
Nsh - Rinne. Nope.
NJD - Brodeur. Nope. Maybe when he retires...
NYI - Roloson. Maybe. But offloading a young forward would be counter productive to rebuilding.
NYR - Lundqvist - Nope.
Ott - Leclaire. Nope.
Phi - Probably go with the Boucher/Leighton tandem again.
Phx - Bryzgalov. Nope.
Pitt - Fleury. Nope.
SJS - Maybe.
STL - Maybe. See NYI.
TBL - Smith. Maybe.
TOR - Jiggy/Gus. Nope.
Van - Lu. Nope.
Wsh - Varlamov. Nope.

So out of 30 teams in the NHL, you can argue that 3 teams need a starting goalie that they do not already have in their sytem. A case could be made for another 3. There are 4 UFA goalies hitting the market this season that will cost a team nothing to obtain.

Hey I hope I'm wrong. But I don't see any team giving anything better than a couple of picks, or a prospect in return. The best bet is to sign both and wait and hope a goalie or two blows up and a team get desparate...

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06-17-2010, 07:51 AM
  #397
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Originally Posted by Jiggernaut View Post
Why? That's the point, these guys can be had for FREE. No one cares where they'll be in 8-10 years. GM's don't have an 8-10 year plan. It's usually 3-5. If signing one of those guys buys you 3-5 years to compete while you develop your own goalie, why would you trade away a young roster player?

What did this years playoffs give GM's the idea this year? That you don't need star goaltending to make it to the finals. And we all know how GM's react on a year by year basis.

Unless you're a team that can truely compete for the cup why give up a piece of your puzzle to get a price/halak and create a void in another position?

And that doesn't even consider the cap value for some teams. There's not a chance in hell, for example, that PHI would trade a Giroux or VanReim (as rumored) for either. These guys have a $.765m and $.875m cap hit next year. So you can apply the same to any young promising player around the league that is still under entry level contract for next season. No team is going to trade a cheap, young, roster player that contributes for price or halak.

So who needs a goalie?
Anh - Hiller. Nope.
Atl - Pavelic. Nope.Pavelec is far from making the unanimity in Atlanta.
Bos - Rask. Nope.
Buff - Miller. NOPE.
Car - Ward. Nope.
Cgy - Kipper. Nope.
Chi - Niemi. Nope Ordinary goaltending almost cost them the cup...
Clb - Mason. Nope.
Col - Anderson. Nope.
Dal - Just got Lehtonen. Nope. Lehtonen is a project up to this point.
Det - Howard. Nope.
Edm - Bulin. Maybe. If they could offload him. But most likely nope. They're building for the future. Khabibulin brings them nothing.
Fla - Vokun. Nope.
LA - Quick. Nope.
Min - Backstrom. Nope.
Nsh - Rinne. Nope.
NJD - Brodeur. Nope. Maybe when he retires...
NYI - Roloson. Maybe. But offloading a young forward would be counter productive to rebuilding. Subjectivity at its best...
NYR - Lundqvist - Nope.
Ott - Leclaire. Nope. Come... On!
Phi - Probably go with the Boucher/Leighton tandem again. I doubt they're not going to be looking for a new goalie, since it's what cost them the cup.
Phx - Bryzgalov. Nope.
Pitt - Fleury. Nope.
SJS - Maybe. Uhm... Yes. They don't have anything for next season.
STL - Maybe. See NYI. Subjectivity, plus all they have for next year is CONKLIN.
TBL - Smith. Maybe. Yzerman is openly looking for a goalie.
TOR - Jiggy/Gus. Nope.
Van - Lu. Nope.
Wsh - Varlamov. Nope.

So out of 30 teams in the NHL, you can argue that 3 teams need a starting goalie that they do not already have in their sytem. A case could be made for another 3. There are 4 UFA goalies hitting the market this season that will cost a team nothing to obtain.

Hey I hope I'm wrong. But I don't see any team giving anything better than a couple of picks, or a prospect in return. The best bet is to sign both and wait and hope a goalie or two blows up and a team get desparate...
You're just suggesting the market isn't good for goalie based around your subjective vision of what's going on in the league. Fact is... a lot of #1 goalies are running out of their contracts this summer. Teams are going to be looking to replace them.

Up to 10 teams are going to be entertaining offers involving goalies going their way. It's ludicrous to think only 3 teams this summer are going to lack a starter.

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06-17-2010, 07:52 AM
  #398
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Originally Posted by Jiggernaut View Post
Why? That's the point, these guys can be had for FREE. No one cares where they'll be in 8-10 years. GM's don't have an 8-10 year plan. It's usually 3-5. If signing one of those guys buys you 3-5 years to compete while you develop your own goalie, why would you trade away a young roster player?

What did this years playoffs give GM's the idea this year? That you don't need star goaltending to make it to the finals. And we all know how GM's react on a year by year basis.

Unless you're a team that can truely compete for the cup why give up a piece of your puzzle to get a price/halak and create a void in another position?

And that doesn't even consider the cap value for some teams. There's not a chance in hell, for example, that PHI would trade a Giroux or VanReim (as rumored) for either. These guys have a $.765m and $.875m cap hit next year. So you can apply the same to any young promising player around the league that is still under entry level contract for next season. No team is going to trade a cheap, young, roster player that contributes for price or halak.

So who needs a goalie?
Anh - Hiller. Nope.
Atl - Pavelic. Nope.
Bos - Rask. Nope.
Buff - Miller. NOPE.
Car - Ward. Nope.
Cgy - Kipper. Nope.
Chi - Niemi. Nope
Clb - Mason. Nope.
Col - Anderson. Nope.
Dal - Just got Lehtonen. Nope.
Det - Howard. Nope.
Edm - Bulin. Maybe. If they could offload him. But most likely nope.
Fla - Vokun. Nope.
LA - Quick. Nope.
Min - Backstrom. Nope.
Nsh - Rinne. Nope.
NJD - Brodeur. Nope. Maybe when he retires...
NYI - Roloson. Maybe. But offloading a young forward would be counter productive to rebuilding.
NYR - Lundqvist - Nope.
Ott - Leclaire. Nope.
Phi - Probably go with the Boucher/Leighton tandem again.
Phx - Bryzgalov. Nope.
Pitt - Fleury. Nope.
SJS - Maybe.
STL - Maybe. See NYI.
TBL - Smith. Maybe.
TOR - Jiggy/Gus. Nope.
Van - Lu. Nope.
Wsh - Varlamov. Nope.

So out of 30 teams in the NHL, you can argue that 3 teams need a starting goalie that they do not already have in their sytem. A case could be made for another 3. There are 4 UFA goalies hitting the market this season that will cost a team nothing to obtain.

Hey I hope I'm wrong. But I don't see any team giving anything better than a couple of picks, or a prospect in return. The best bet is to sign both and wait and hope a goalie or two blows up and a team get desparate...
cool

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06-17-2010, 07:52 AM
  #399
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It's flooded with journeymen and guys on the decline. That's like saying we should let Plekanec walk because the market for centers is flooded with guys like Lombardi Cullen Morrison Madden Weight Wellwood Lang Conroy Metropolit Moore Mair Armstrong Nichol Malhotra Lundmark Yelle Ebbett Hillbert Wallin Jokinen Modano Koivu Higgins...


i said the goalie market, not free agency as a whole.

Theyre are maybe 5-6 teams looking for a goalie and like 15 available. do the math

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06-17-2010, 07:55 AM
  #400
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post


i said the goalie market, not free agency as a whole.

Theyre are maybe 5-6 teams looking for a goalie and like 15 available. do the math

how many as good as Halak or having Price's potential ?

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