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06-17-2010, 03:06 PM
  #276
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
You know I agree with you on Giroux although I think he does have more value than Eller right now based on the PO run, but Eller definitely has some very sick skills.

Main thing I'd be concerned with for him is the massive pressure that just got put on his shoulders.
Giroux absolutely has more value than Eller right now... but I also think Price has more value than Halak.

Of course, we have to deal with the fact that Claude Giroux is a PPG player to consider (see above).

Quote:
I'd still be very interested to see who else was in on Halak. I doubt we were, but Washington had to have been sniffing around right? Smilies


While the UFA market is good for buyers, if you throw a guy like Halak on the trade market, there's always going to be interest.

I have moderated my feelings a bit, I mean, if Eller becomes an elite 2-way guy who puts up 75 points per year which seems reasonable, that's not a bad deal. The other big factor will obviously be how Price does.
Supposedly Washington is happy with what they got... we'll see if that works out for 'em.

Yep, and clearly the Habs worked a deal for a very good young player who should be in their lineup on opening night. Who knows how good Eller will become, just as we don't know how good Giroux will become. Remains to be seen.

Price is going to be under a microscope this coming year, feel bad for him.

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06-17-2010, 03:10 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
You know I agree with you on Giroux although I think he does have more value than Eller right now based on the PO run, but Eller definitely has some very sick skills.

Main thing I'd be concerned with for him is the massive pressure that just got put on his shoulders.



I'd still be very interested to see who else was in on Halak. I doubt we were, but Washington had to have been sniffing around righ
t?

While the UFA market is good for buyers, if you throw a guy like Halak on the trade market, there's always going to be interest.

I have moderated my feelings a bit, I mean, if Eller becomes an elite 2-way guy who puts up 75 points per year which seems reasonable, that's not a bad deal. The other big factor will obviously be how Price does.
Bob McKenzie tweeted that Philly, Tampa, and San Jose were going hard after Halak. Which is funny considering Holmgren turned down a deal for Halak in December.

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06-17-2010, 03:10 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Excuse me. Who is more proven right now? Claude Giroux or Lars Eller?

Who is more valuable to their organization in terms of prospect pool depth (assuming Giroux is just on the edge of coming out of his prospect stage)? Giroux on the 27th ranked pool or Eller on the 3rd?

Let me tell you the guy who just wants to argue with me to argue...
I don't want to argue with you just to argue... I argue with you because I think you're an unobjective homer (a widely held belief, even if you don't realize that).

Right now we're incapable of fitting all of our forwards into a cohesive roster, will have trouble affording all of 'em after next season, and completely lack a goalie. On top of that, we're in the middle of a "win now" window.

Lets not act like we're incapable of moving a forward for a goalie... even a good young one. Who the **** cares what our prospect pool is ranked, we're trying to win next year.... not five years from now, cuz a few years from now we're going to be trying to figure out how to avoid the wreckage that is our salary cap situation with declining skill getting paid massive salaries. Nor is our prospect pool going to improve, because your boy has traded away all our draft picks.

Neither Giroux or Eller is proven to be the player they're expected to one day be... and in a deal of early 20s players, you aren't trading 'em for what they are today.

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06-17-2010, 03:27 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by tlkamps View Post
I think they are crazy for expecting this..



This was from ESPN insider via the Inquierer.

Discuss
I know this was created before Halak was traded, but if Their #1 was traded for 2 prospects with no nhl experience.... somehow I doubt Gauthier is going to demand more for his #2

but then again Carey Price is like a poster child for the entire city of Montreal, Seriously when I would go up there (it's less than a 2 hour drive from where I live in northern VT) during his rookie season it seemed to me his face was everywhere within a mile radius of the Bell Centre

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06-17-2010, 03:28 PM
  #280
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So...Chris Shafer, you want Zatkoff yet?

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06-17-2010, 03:30 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I don't want to argue with you just to argue... I argue with you because I think you're an unobjective homer (a widely held belief, even if you don't realize that).
You're arguing with me just to argue. Look at yourself. I was right, and you're still calling me out as if I was completely wrong. It's absolutely incredible.

After this post I'm actually considering blocking you, and I never consider blocking anyone regardless of how crazy they go. I had some respect for you once upon a time, but this is getting out of hand. I like a good argument, but seriously?

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Right now we're incapable of fitting all of our forwards into a cohesive roster, will have trouble affording all of 'em after next season, and completely lack a goalie. On top of that, we're in the middle of a "win now" window.
Yes, we are having trouble fitting forwards. That's a very real problem right now. I promise you after this upcoming season, we're going to have problems keeping forwards on the roster. We're about to get a lot thinner at wing when pretty much either Briere or Gagne is gone going into 2011.

I do agree with you, as you have said a while back, that Giroux's success on this team will be defined by his ability to play on the wing.

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Lets not act like we're incapable of moving a forward for a goalie... even a good young one. Who the **** cares what our prospect pool is ranked, we're trying to win next year.... not five years from now, cuz a few years from now we're going to be trying to figure out how to avoid the wreckage that is our salary cap situation with declining skill getting paid massive salaries. Nor is our prospect pool going to improve, because your boy has traded away all our draft picks.
Well, "my boy" is trying to stretch this out as long as he can. We don't have the prospects or picks, and it's a very real problem. Still, Holmgren is trying to replenish the prospect pool. Alright, let's for arguments sake say that it's not successful.

Three years from now (when Giroux and JVR I assume have broken out) you end up with something like this:

JVR (PPG~) - Richards (PPG~) - Giroux (PPG~)
xxxxxxxxx - Carter (PPG~) - Briere (Losing touch with age)
xxxxxxxxx - xxxxxxxxx - xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxx - xxxxxxxxx - xxxxxxxxx

Pronger (Starting to get old) - Carle (In his prime)
xxxxxxxxx - Coburn (In his prime)
xxxxxxxxx - Bartulis

If you trade either Giroux or JVR, in theory you're committing to Briere or Gagne long-term instead.

How smart is that with a weak prospect pool? Hopefully we'll have some more talent drafted by then, and hopefully some of the players we have now can make an impact.

Win now doesn't exist, when we have the ability to win for a long time. **** windows. Don't know why everyone is so obsessed with that concept.

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Neither Giroux or Eller is proven to be the player they're expected to one day be... and in a deal of early 20s players, you aren't trading 'em for what they are today.
Of course, but there are a lot of other factors involved. Eller is also far less of a sure thing than Giroux.

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06-17-2010, 03:35 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I'd still prefer Turco, but at least this deal gives us a lot more leverage as now we have 3 viable options as opposed to two.

The other thing is that it's nice to see a goalie like Halak out of the conference, imagine if WSH had gotten their hands on him.
I'd like a guy like Mason. I don't have the same concern about a slightly longer contract blocking the goalie prospects should they get better. First of all, they're goalie prospects. Always a crapshoot though I like what I've heard about Bob. So no matter what your expectations are, you don't necessarily want to be "planning" for their arrival at the NHL level. Getting a goalie like Mason for as long as 3 years wouldn't be terrible, as long as he's consistent (another crapshoot, I know), and if so you can move them later if it turns out the heir apparent is blocked.

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06-17-2010, 04:08 PM
  #283
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I wonder if the habs refused to trade with you guys? You gotta believe you could have beat this offer...

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06-17-2010, 04:09 PM
  #284
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The return Halak got suggests that asking for Giroux for Price was a somewhat plausible demand. They made it in case it would happen.


Regardless, a goalie who is very solid and played out of his mind in the playoffs still returns non-NHL players. Eller a former first, still a good prospect, but is a few steps below Giroux at this point. This for a goalie actually in the league and not going anywhere for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Savynquick View Post
I wonder if the habs refused to trade with you guys? You gotta believe you could have beat this offer...
We don't have a prospect the caliber of Eller. Same thing as when the Flyers were supposedly looking for Kovalchuk. We don't have the assets to match anybody in a bidding war.

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06-17-2010, 04:26 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Bob McKenzie tweeted that Philly, Tampa, and San Jose were going hard after Halak. Which is funny considering Holmgren turned down a deal for Halak in December.
Huh. That's interesting. McKenzie is very reliable so it's interesting to know that Homer is trying to trade for a goalie. I didn't think he was that smart.

You have to wonder what Homer was offering though. I wouldn't be surprised if Homer offered something as good or even slightly better then what St. Louis did and Montreal decided to go with St. Louis for various considerations (St. Louis is out-of-conference and we're cup contenders who have ****ed over the Habs in two of the last three playoff years).

Should be interesting to see who ends up as our goalie(s).

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Supposedly Washington is happy with what they got... we'll see if that works out for 'em.

Yep, and clearly the Habs worked a deal for a very good young player who should be in their lineup on opening night. Who knows how good Eller will become, just as we don't know how good Giroux will become. Remains to be seen.

Price is going to be under a microscope this coming year, feel bad for him.
I don't think it will. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up disastrous for them.

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06-17-2010, 04:33 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Huh. That's interesting. McKenzie is very reliable so it's interesting to know that Homer is trying to trade for a goalie. I didn't think he was that smart.

You have to wonder what Homer was offering though. I wouldn't be surprised if Homer offered something as good or even slightly better then what St. Louis did and Montreal decided to go with St. Louis for various considerations (St. Louis is out-of-conference and we're cup contenders who have ****ed over the Habs in two of the last three playoff years).
Bob McKenzie followed that up with another tweet saying sources in Montreal told him that the Flyers and Tampa did not have interest Halak. Also Panaccio tweeted Holmgren denied it as well.

It's a little disappointing he wasn't trying to trade for him. It makes me fear Leighton is coming back unless he just didn't like Halak specifically. I know at the deadline Panaccio said they were high on Price, but didn't have much interest in Halak.

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06-17-2010, 04:34 PM
  #287
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By what they got do we mean Theo/Varly, or am I missing something?

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06-17-2010, 04:35 PM
  #288
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Report: Canadiens Offer Goaltender Halak To Flyers

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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Bob McKenzie tweeted that Philly, Tampa, and San Jose were going hard after Halak. Which is funny considering Holmgren turned down a deal for Halak in December.
uggh....don't remind me. I still wish to know why the Flyers/Holmgren "did not propose a deal" at the time which wouldn't have cost as much....

Quote:
Gainey told ruefrontenac.com writer Bertrand Raymond that he called the Flyers and told them he might have a goaltender available but the Flyers did not propose a deal.

The report indicates Gainey was looking for a top-six forward in return, but the Canadiens GM downplayed his demands.

"Let's be realistic," Gainey told the website. "I received a second round pick from the Washington Capitals for Cristobal Huet and the Flyers gave up a second round pick from Buffalo for Martin Biron."

"It's positive that some other teams are interested in me," explained Halak. "Bob called them, so I guess...what can I say? I'm happy to be here but at the same time I want to play."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=302443

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06-17-2010, 04:36 PM
  #289
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I think Halak has better confidence right now but Price has greater potential. If I'm Homer and I'm putting a guy behind Pronger and Kimmo and our two-way guys, I'd much rather take a chance on Price.

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06-17-2010, 04:37 PM
  #290
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If he brings back Leighton as the starter im going to be pissed. Why wouldn't he have interest in Halak? Especially with his apparently cheap pricetag. Something around Parent likely could have netted him.

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06-17-2010, 04:42 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
If he brings back Leighton as the starter im going to be pissed. Why wouldn't he have interest in Halak? Especially with his apparently cheap pricetag. Something around Parent likely could have netted him.
i'm pretty sure eller has quite a bit more value than parent.

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06-17-2010, 04:43 PM
  #292
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Another somewhat wasted pick for Biron that was looking back on it.

If I'm Holmgren, my attention is on Josh Harding, who supposedly tried to get Eller for Harding.

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06-17-2010, 04:45 PM
  #293
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I wonder if the Flyers did make a deal for Halak back in Dec how the playoffs would turn out? Flyers would be seeded higher possibly and not have to get in the playoffs in the last game, shot and save of the season. Then even if they faced Pitt or Wash eventually they would have had Halak to challenge them with a better D around him although Halak does seem to work best when he gets a lot of activity. Then if they made it to the Finals I'm sure Halak would have done much better than Leighton who basically folded under pressure in the finals. The what ifs are intriguing...destiny/fate is a funny thing.

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06-17-2010, 04:46 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
I wonder if the Flyers did make a deal for Halak back in Dec how the playoffs would turn out? Flyers would be seeded higher possibly and not have to get in the playoffs in the last game, shot and save of the season. Then even if they faced Pitt or Wash eventually they would have had Halak to challenge them with a better D around him although Halak does seem to work best when he gets a lot of activity. Then if they made it to the Finals I'm sure Halak would have done much better than Leighton who basically folded under pressure in the finals. The what ifs are intriguing...destiny/fate is a funny thing.
If we had won the lottery in 2007, we'd probably have the Cup right now anyway.

Best not to dive too much into hindsight.

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06-17-2010, 04:50 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
If we had won the lottery in 2007, we'd probably have the Cup right now anyway.

Best not to dive too much into hindsight.
i know it doesn't work out salary cap-wise, but i couldn't help imagining the final if the two teams just swapped kane and jvr, keeping everything else constant. wouldn't have even been fair lol

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06-17-2010, 04:50 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Bob McKenzie followed that up with another tweet saying sources in Montreal told him that the Flyers and Tampa did not have interest Halak. Also Panaccio tweeted Holmgren denied it as well.

It's a little disappointing he wasn't trying to trade for him. It makes me fear Leighton is coming back unless he just didn't like Halak specifically. I know at the deadline Panaccio said they were high on Price, but didn't have much interest in Halak.
I'm super afraid that they'll go with Leighton and Boucher or just Leighton. That would quite literally be the worst thing that Homer could do for us at the goalie position.

I'd rather throw Backlund and possibly Bobrovsky to the wolves then go with Leighton and Boucher or just Leighton.

I am a bit worried about how silent things have been. There's been no rumours of interest in any goalies so far besides Price.

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By what they got do we mean Theo/Varly, or am I missing something?
Theodore is a UFA and the chances of the Caps re-signing him are practically zero. They're going with Neuvirth and Varlamov next year.

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06-17-2010, 04:52 PM
  #297
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eh. i still wouldnt give up giroux. we have nobody to replace him, and hes supposed to be stepping up to replace one of the aging gagne/briere...but i dont think i feel good about having leighton as a starting goalie throughout a season.

any word on parent? is his back ruined again? if so, i dont see how we can trade him for anything, unless homer roofies another GM.

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06-17-2010, 04:55 PM
  #298
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Yeah, I trade JVR or Carter way before Giroux. If we want a shot at the Cup that is.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Carter traded if the return were right. Really don't want to trade any of our other forwards though.

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06-17-2010, 04:55 PM
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
I wonder if the Flyers did make a deal for Halak back in Dec how the playoffs would turn out? Flyers would be seeded higher possibly and not have to get in the playoffs in the last game, shot and save of the season. Then even if they faced Pitt or Wash eventually they would have had Halak to challenge them with a better D around him although Halak does seem to work best when he gets a lot of activity. Then if they made it to the Finals I'm sure Halak would have done much better than Leighton who basically folded under pressure in the finals. The what ifs are intriguing...destiny/fate is a funny thing.
Or maybe that shootout was what inspired them to play so well until they ran out of gas.

What-ifs are pointless. We won the East and it wasn't close, we lost the Final and it wasn't close. End of story.

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06-17-2010, 05:02 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Unstable View Post
Or maybe that shootout was what inspired them to play so well until they ran out of gas.

What-ifs are pointless. We won the East and it wasn't close, we lost the Final and it wasn't close. End of story.
Makes it sound like we got our ***** kicked or something.

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