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Habs want Giroux for Price

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Old
06-17-2010, 06:05 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Unstable View Post
Or maybe that shootout was what inspired them to play so well until they ran out of gas.

What-ifs are pointless. We won the East and it wasn't close, we lost the Final and it wasn't close. End of story.
We lost the final 4 games to 2, with the last game going into overtime. If carter is able to shoot we win that game and take game 7 to chicago. The series was very close. Don't forget that.

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06-17-2010, 06:05 PM
  #302
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Tying goal not withstanding, we were very lucky to be in game six. But if you think it was close, that only bolsters my point, that things played out very well and I, for one, have made my peace with that.

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06-17-2010, 06:07 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I'm super afraid that they'll go with Leighton and Boucher or just Leighton. That would quite literally be the worst thing that Homer could do for us at the goalie position.

I'd rather throw Backlund and possibly Bobrovsky to the wolves then go with Leighton and Boucher or just Leighton.

I am a bit worried about how silent things have been. There's been no rumours of interest in any goalies so far besides Price.



Theodore is a UFA and the chances of the Caps re-signing him are practically zero. They're going with Neuvirth and Varlamov next year.
I am worried, too. Panaccio just put up an article with not much information. He doesn't seem to know who they are interested in, but he says Holmgren talked to numerous GM's in advance of the draft.

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06-17-2010, 06:08 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
If he brings back Leighton as the starter im going to be pissed. Why wouldn't he have interest in Halak? Especially with his apparently cheap pricetag. Something around Parent likely could have netted him.
Bringing back Leighton could be a great thing. Everybody needs to look at the regular season too, where Leights played good. That was his first shot at the pressure cooker of the playoffs and he came in under the worst conditions. Give Jeff Reese the summer to work with him and Backlund. The competition between Backlund and Leighton will be good. Give the other D-men another summer to work at there game hopefully learning from Pronger and Kimmo and Philly will make another cup run next year. Just my opinion.

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06-17-2010, 06:09 PM
  #305
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As in, yeah, we needed better goal keeping. And better shooting, from Carter and others. And better conditioning. And more than four defensemen. And on and on.

But it was a **** good run, so who cares? Actually speculating about what would have happened with different players on a game-by-game basis is a waste.

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06-17-2010, 06:17 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Giroux absolutely has more value than Eller right now... but I also think Price has more value than Halak.
Yep.

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Supposedly Washington is happy with what they got... we'll see if that works out for 'em.

Yep, and clearly the Habs worked a deal for a very good young player who should be in their lineup on opening night. Who knows how good Eller will become, just as we don't know how good Giroux will become. Remains to be seen.

Price is going to be under a microscope this coming year, feel bad for him.
God, that's pretty risky by Washington, not sold on Neuvirth or Varlamov and their window isn't going to be open forever, that 9.5 for OV is going to start being a serious factor as guys get off their ELCs, I already don't see how they'll keep Semin.

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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Bob McKenzie tweeted that Philly, Tampa, and San Jose were going hard after Halak. Which is funny considering Holmgren turned down a deal for Halak in December.
Well, I'm sure that we expressed interest, but we weren't going to give up JVR or Giroux unless Holmgren took more crazy pills than usual and we didn't have the picks to make up for it. But I mean, WSH definitely had the prospects to make something happen.

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Originally Posted by might2mash View Post
I'd like a guy like Mason. I don't have the same concern about a slightly longer contract blocking the goalie prospects should they get better. First of all, they're goalie prospects. Always a crapshoot though I like what I've heard about Bob. So no matter what your expectations are, you don't necessarily want to be "planning" for their arrival at the NHL level. Getting a goalie like Mason for as long as 3 years wouldn't be terrible, as long as he's consistent (another crapshoot, I know), and if so you can move them later if it turns out the heir apparent is blocked.
Yeah I'd be happy with either Turco or Mason for 3 years, not as sold on Ellis, but either of the first 2 would be nice.

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06-17-2010, 06:52 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Unstable View Post
Tying goal not withstanding, we were very lucky to be in game six. But if you think it was close, that only bolsters my point, that things played out very well and I, for one, have made my peace with that.
Thing is, if we win that game on a flukey bounce, then win the cup...bla bla bla. The entire game is all about if's and but's. That's what seperates the winners from the losers in a close series.

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06-17-2010, 07:11 PM
  #308
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A bounce in game six OT is a different what if than what if Halak in February.

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06-17-2010, 09:02 PM
  #309
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Obviously what if's are in fact "pointless" and as Holmgren seems to like to say..."it is what it is" then again I prefer "it is what it isn't." We came up short for a few reasons and one of them was engaging in brinkmanship most of the season and into the playoffs. It caught up to them along with the goaltending by committee by two backups. Having said this it was indeed a fun ride but with being only two wins away in a series that we had an excellent chance in and for the most part evenly matched it's still a bit tough to come to terms with especially since I've followed the team for 23 years. I guess I still haven't made my peace....I don't take too well to losing and what ifs are kind of a defense mechanism I suppose. I just hope I don't have to wait another decade at a chance at the cup. Would be nice to also be the favorites since in 87 they were underdogs against a dynasty and in 97 the same. I mean even in 2010 we were but showed a lot just that our path was more arduous and full of adversity than that of Chicago. Seems with the Flyers its always blood, sweat and tears...

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06-17-2010, 09:31 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I don't think so... not for Halak, anyway. I think that's a very good return given the goalie market this summer... and I also think it's evidence that Giroux for Price wasn't absurd at all.
I think it shows that it is even more absurd. In Dec, Eller was ranked #44 in Rookies...Giroux #8. MTL was never getting Giroux or JVR for either goalie as they wanted

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06-17-2010, 09:52 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I'm actually the one who said on multiple occasions, if you take the time to find it, that I could see Eller max going for Price. Surprised Eller got the Halak, but I was pretty right all along.

Eller's good, but unproven.

He's not particularly as talented as Giroux, but he's definitely up there. The big thing is that he isn't proven, which is why I said Eller would probably go for Price.

I also said, once again on multiple occasions, the Price would probably go to STL because St. Louis can afford to pay the bluechip prospect forward that we cannot part with.

A little shocked that it was Halak, but in the end, it's nothing different than my expectations from the start.

So yeah, not really sure why you're mentioning me, when the value isn't similar at all. I could explain why, but I think it should be fairly obvious. Maybe if Eller pans out...we will see. I know a lot about Eller as I covered St. Louis here once upon a time.
You're a god in your own mind, but a god (even with a small "g") should not be pretentious.

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06-17-2010, 09:57 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You're arguing with me just to argue. Look at yourself. I was right, and you're still calling me out as if I was completely wrong. It's absolutely incredible.

After this post I'm actually considering blocking you, and I never consider blocking anyone regardless of how crazy they go. I had some respect for you once upon a time, but this is getting out of hand. I like a good argument, but seriously?
Don't ***** his balloon, people, or he'll block you. Consider yourself warned...

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06-17-2010, 10:07 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
You're a god in your own mind, but a god (even with a small "g") should not be pretentious.
Sometimes it's nice to pretend right?

Apparently massive ego and superiority complex aside, the return for Halak both puts the Flyers in a bind and helps them at the same time.

Price/Halak was the best option on the trade market, regardless of any claims otherwise. Now they are quite officially off the table, leaving Schneider and Harding as the only two realistic young goalies on the market. Everyone should realize by now that neither Bernier or Quick are going to be moved until Bernier has a larger sample size. Well, that's not entirely true. I guess one could be moved, but it would definitely shock me.

So, do you count on Schneider or Harding to start or even split time with Boucher/Leighton? Not likely. As much as I like Schneider you can't count on him to be anything more than a back-up at this point. Harding is the same way.

Then there's Neuvirth and Enroth I guess, but that isn't even really much of a step up from Bobrovsky/Backlund/Eriksson if we were to acquire them.

The movement of Halak, despite his cheap return, has severely limited our options for a weight-carrying goaltender next year.

Vokoun and Thomas are available through trade. I think that pretty much covers all the veterans available on the block; at least the ones I can think of off the top of my head. It brings their returns down quite a bit, I think. Vokoun would be perfect, but not at the expense of Carter, Giroux, or JVR. There's also the matter of his salary. Thomas, I assume, is pretty much a no-go from a Philly point of view.

So if we can't get Vokoun at a reasonable expense in terms of assets/cap space, our only option is the free agent market.

Nabokov is a wild card, but if he's going to demand a lot, which he will, I don't necessarily want him in Philadelphia.

1. Ellis is available but does not have experience carrying a team. I'd still give him a shot, particularly in a 1A scenario with Leighton or Boucer.

2. Turco is older, but he played behind a god awful defense in Dallas. This could be the absolutely perfect place to resurrect his career for one last go.

3. Biron could likely be had dirt cheap, as opposed to the outrageous contract demands he had a year ago. A lot of people hated him when he was here while others were just okay with him. Still, he never got a chance to play behind this quality of a defense. All things I've heard say he was well liked in the locker room, and he was certainly well thought of in the city of Philadelphia in general. He loved it here.

4. Leighton obviously wants to stay in Philadelphia. I attack this as my last possible option if I'm not getting a different starter. He should not be first on our list as a starter. As a 1B option or a backup, he should definitely top our list. As a starter? Definitely not.

And that's pretty much where we stand. Did I forget anything?

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06-17-2010, 10:20 PM
  #314
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Nabokov just doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like we'd have to work to fit him into the cap and I don't think he's millions better than Turco. Not getting Price or Halak really stings.

Bringing back Leighton as our #1 would depress me, although I guess we could do worse

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06-17-2010, 10:25 PM
  #315
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Does anyone else think it'd be a good idea to trade Carter for a goaltender, perhaps vokoun. Or to Nashville for The rights to Ellis +, and then go out and sign a guy like dan hamuis or Paul Martin to to a 1 year deal to sure up the D? What do you think we could get in return in addition to ellis? Just throwing around possibilities here.

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06-17-2010, 10:32 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Sometimes it's nice to pretend right?

Apparently massive ego and superiority complex aside, the return for Halak both puts the Flyers in a bind and helps them at the same time.

Price/Halak was the best option on the trade market, regardless of any claims otherwise. Now they are quite officially off the table, leaving Schneider and Harding as the only two realistic young goalies on the market. Everyone should realize by now that neither Bernier or Quick are going to be moved until Bernier has a larger sample size. Well, that's not entirely true. I guess one could be moved, but it would definitely shock me.

So, do you count on Schneider or Harding to start or even split time with Boucher/Leighton? Not likely. As much as I like Schneider you can't count on him to be anything more than a back-up at this point. Harding is the same way.

Then there's Neuvirth and Enroth I guess, but that isn't even really much of a step up from Bobrovsky/Backlund/Eriksson if we were to acquire them.

The movement of Halak, despite his cheap return, has severely limited our options for a weight-carrying goaltender next year.

Vokoun and Thomas are available through trade. I think that pretty much covers all the veterans available on the block; at least the ones I can think of off the top of my head. It brings their returns down quite a bit, I think. Vokoun would be perfect, but not at the expense of Carter, Giroux, or JVR. There's also the matter of his salary. Thomas, I assume, is pretty much a no-go from a Philly point of view.

So if we can't get Vokoun at a reasonable expense in terms of assets/cap space, our only option is the free agent market.

Nabokov is a wild card, but if he's going to demand a lot, which he will, I don't necessarily want him in Philadelphia.

1. Ellis is available but does not have experience carrying a team. I'd still give him a shot, particularly in a 1A scenario with Leighton or Boucer.

2. Turco is older, but he played behind a god awful defense in Dallas. This could be the absolutely perfect place to resurrect his career for one last go.

3. Biron could likely be had dirt cheap, as opposed to the outrageous contract demands he had a year ago. A lot of people hated him when he was here while others were just okay with him. Still, he never got a chance to play behind this quality of a defense. All things I've heard say he was well liked in the locker room, and he was certainly well thought of in the city of Philadelphia in general. He loved it here.

4. Leighton obviously wants to stay in Philadelphia. I attack this as my last possible option if I'm not getting a different starter. He should not be first on our list as a starter. As a 1B option or a backup, he should definitely top our list. As a starter? Definitely not.

And that's pretty much where we stand. Did I forget anything?
I'd put Turco first on that list at this point. I'd also take Leighton off. It doesn't get any better than what we saw from him this year. What we saw was a goalie who can look great when his defense makes his job ridiculously easy.

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06-17-2010, 10:33 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Mr Oysterhead View Post
Nabokov just doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like we'd have to work to fit him into the cap and I don't think he's millions better than Turco. Not getting Price or Halak really stings.

Bringing back Leighton as our #1 would depress me, although I guess we could do worse
Here's what I'd probably offer each UFA goalie (age next to their name):

(34) Turco - 2.50m-3.50m
(34) Nabokov - 4.00m (lowball I know, but I don't want to pay him really)
(33) Theodore - 2.00m
(34) Mason - 2.50m-3.50m
(29) Ellis - 2.50m-3.50m
(32) Biron - 2.00m
(29) Leighton - 1.00m-1.50m

Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Does anyone else think it'd be a good idea to trade Carter for a goaltender, perhaps vokoun. Or to Nashville for The rights to Ellis +, and then go out and sign a guy like dan hamuis or Paul Martin to to a 1 year deal to sure up the D? What do you think we could get in return in addition to ellis? Just throwing around possibilities here.
Carter for Vokoun? If we get a lot of return on top of that including their 1st rounder.

Carter for the rights to Ellis+? Ellis has no value. No thanks.

As far as Hamhuis and Martin are concerned, their nice, but I'd rather have the younger Carle and Coburn at around $3.5m each as opposed to paying either Hamhuis or Martin $4.0m to possibly $5.0m. Don't change what's working on the blueline. Add some depth, but don't change arguably the best top four in the NHL.

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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
I'd put Turco first on that list at this point. I'd also take Leighton off. It doesn't get any better than what we saw from him this year. What we saw was a goalie who can look great when his defense makes his job ridiculously easy.
Fair enough. What do you think of Chris Mason too?

I think Chris Mason, Marty Turco, and Dan Ellis are our 3 best options at this point followed by Biron and then Leighton WAY down the line as a last case scenario.

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06-17-2010, 10:40 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Here's what I'd probably offer each UFA goalie (age next to their name):

(34) Turco - 2.50m-3.50m
(34) Nabokov - 4.00m (lowball I know, but I don't want to pay him really)
(33) Theodore - 2.00m
(34) Mason - 2.50m-3.50m
(29) Ellis - 2.50m-3.50m
(32) Biron - 2.00m
(29) Leighton - 1.00m-1.50m
I agree with this for the most part. Personally, I'd remove Theodore altogether. I want nothing to do with him. I'd put Biron at 1.5-2, and wouldn't attempt to get him unless failing at everyone else. (Basically, I could live with a Biron Leighton duo if we have no other choice and it's cheap.) I'd also add in Chris Mason at the same 2.5-3.5 as Ellis and Turco.

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06-17-2010, 10:42 PM
  #319
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I agree with this for the most part. Personally, I'd remove Theodore altogether. I want nothing to do with him. I'd put Biron at 1.5-2, and wouldn't attempt to get him unless failing at everyone else. (Basically, I could live with a Biron Leighton duo if we have no other choice and it's cheap.) I'd also add in Chris Mason at the same 2.5-3.5 as Ellis and Turco.
I already have Mason in there.

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06-17-2010, 10:49 PM
  #320
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I still like Chris Mason as our number one option for goalie next season. He won't cost us as much as some other options, and apart from when playing for Team Canada, the guy has been great since the lockout.

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06-17-2010, 11:07 PM
  #321
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I already have Mason in there.
I apologize for being blind.

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06-17-2010, 11:24 PM
  #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Fair enough. What do you think of Chris Mason too?

I think Chris Mason, Marty Turco, and Dan Ellis are our 3 best options at this point followed by Biron and then Leighton WAY down the line as a last case scenario.
Regarding Mason, if I'm being honest, I don't really know well enough to say. The last time I intently watch him, he was in the middle of a stretch of hot play making a play-off push with St. Louis. That was over a year ago now, so lots could've changed. He looked alright to me in the shoot out game against us this year, but I wasn't watching him closely. My thoughts last year were that I really liked his stlye/technique. He has a nice low, wide stance and seals the ice quickly, and moves decently laterally. His hands are good not great. Seemed to keep an even keel in net. Magnificent beard. I thought he was a pretty darn solid goalie honestly.

But then people are talking about him totally crapping the bed for a whole slew of games in the WC's, and I wish I had a chance to watch and see why he's sucking (i.e. correctable mistakes and simply slumping, or because he's slowing down). Guys don't fall off the face of the earth like that and go from decent to sucking due to age in two weeks, so I would guess he would be a nice option for the Flyers.

Turco is a weird goalie. He can be technically sound, but when it comes to making desperation saves, he will throw the book out the window and do some wild stuff. It's not like I ever see him getting abused by one specific flaw though. He makes some miracle saves and he lets in some stinkers. But it seems like it's never the same way twice, on both counts, and sometimes he'll be making miracle saves in the way he just got beat for a softy. I think it's a symptom of his willingness to abandon technique, but at the end of the day, I still think he can get the job done though.

I think Biron is limited in the same ways as Leighton, just not nearly as badly as Leighton is. The skills that you can't work around lacking as a goalie, Biron is great at (pretty quick hands, great vision). His areas of least proficiency probably wouldn't even show up that much behind the defense as it is (kinda stiff legs for an NHL goalie, mediocre skater, mediocre athlete). He's a great first save goalie. We know that he turns it on for play-offs, and is a great team mate right? So for the right price, sure I'd like Marty back.

As for Ellis. I think he's just a wee bit above average at everything. I watched him when the Preds lost to the Wings a couple years ago in the play-offs and he was straight-up nasty in a losing effort. I take it with a grain of salt though, as I haven't had a chance to watch him in his more human moments.




And after that novel, no one will ever solicit my opinion on anything goalie-related ever again.

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06-18-2010, 12:20 AM
  #323
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I want no part of Theodore. After today, its looking more and more like Turco. Cant afford Nabokov, Ellis is unproven as stated already. I doubt LA is trading Quick or Bernier unless there is a severe overpayment where Deano just cant say no.
Leighton/Boucher would be disasterous for a entire season.

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06-18-2010, 07:37 AM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Sometimes it's nice to pretend right?

Apparently massive ego and superiority complex aside, the return for Halak both puts the Flyers in a bind and helps them at the same time.

Price/Halak was the best option on the trade market, regardless of any claims otherwise. Now they are quite officially off the table, leaving Schneider and Harding as the only two realistic young goalies on the market. Everyone should realize by now that neither Bernier or Quick are going to be moved until Bernier has a larger sample size. Well, that's not entirely true. I guess one could be moved, but it would definitely shock me.

So, do you count on Schneider or Harding to start or even split time with Boucher/Leighton? Not likely. As much as I like Schneider you can't count on him to be anything more than a back-up at this point. Harding is the same way.

Then there's Neuvirth and Enroth I guess, but that isn't even really much of a step up from Bobrovsky/Backlund/Eriksson if we were to acquire them.

The movement of Halak, despite his cheap return, has severely limited our options for a weight-carrying goaltender next year.

Vokoun and Thomas are available through trade. I think that pretty much covers all the veterans available on the block; at least the ones I can think of off the top of my head. It brings their returns down quite a bit, I think. Vokoun would be perfect, but not at the expense of Carter, Giroux, or JVR. There's also the matter of his salary. Thomas, I assume, is pretty much a no-go from a Philly point of view.

So if we can't get Vokoun at a reasonable expense in terms of assets/cap space, our only option is the free agent market.

Nabokov is a wild card, but if he's going to demand a lot, which he will, I don't necessarily want him in Philadelphia.

1. Ellis is available but does not have experience carrying a team. I'd still give him a shot, particularly in a 1A scenario with Leighton or Boucer.

2. Turco is older, but he played behind a god awful defense in Dallas. This could be the absolutely perfect place to resurrect his career for one last go.

3. Biron could likely be had dirt cheap, as opposed to the outrageous contract demands he had a year ago. A lot of people hated him when he was here while others were just okay with him. Still, he never got a chance to play behind this quality of a defense. All things I've heard say he was well liked in the locker room, and he was certainly well thought of in the city of Philadelphia in general. He loved it here.

4. Leighton obviously wants to stay in Philadelphia. I attack this as my last possible option if I'm not getting a different starter. He should not be first on our list as a starter. As a 1B option or a backup, he should definitely top our list. As a starter? Definitely not.

And that's pretty much where we stand. Did I forget anything?
If you were really a god, you'd know if you forgot anything....

Forget Vokoun. Too much contract. Forget Biron.

I'd take Nabokov or Turco at $3 million/yr max, otherwise pass.

Minnesota might be inclined to deal Harding, if only to give him a place to play, esp. with Khodubin already to be backup. He should be available at not an outrageous price.

Then trade Boucher as a favour to be backup (vs. taking up a Phantom spot), and sign Leighton or Ellis.

Ellis/Leighton and Harding with Backlund in reserve? Too risky? Is that good enough?

I'm really surprised Montreal panicked on the Halak deal. I know the market isn't deep, and Eller is a going to be a good player, but surely there were other teams that might have been interested to up the ante?

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06-18-2010, 08:02 AM
  #325
Savynquick*
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Hehhe I said Turco in your threads about 3-4 weeks ago, and got laughed out of here. He's starting to look pretty good now

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