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Old
06-15-2010, 11:02 AM
  #1
WTFMAN99
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Dal/tor

To Dallas:

Kaberle
Bozak
Stalberg
Draft pick? 4th 2011?

To Tor:

Richards*
Player you guys want to dump - Niskinen?

*Kind of want an assurance he'd be willing to sign an extension.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:10 AM
  #2
BigG44
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No.

I'd rather have Richards manning the point on the PP than Kaberle, and Richards playing between Neal and Eriksson at ES. If given the risk of re-signing Kaberle or Richards, Dallas might actually have a chance of retaining Richards. Kaberle walks ASAP.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:11 AM
  #3
piqued
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It's a more competitive offer than we usually see though, with Bozak included.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:12 AM
  #4
leafmon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
To Dallas:

Kaberle
Bozak
Stalberg
Draft pick? 4th 2011?

To Tor:

Richards*
Player you guys want to dump - Niskinen?

*Kind of want an assurance he'd be willing to sign an extension.
How can the Leafs realistically give up that kind of quantity ? Not that I don't respect Richards but at some point the Leafs have to let some guys develop ( Bozak,Stalberg) and get what they can for Kaberle to help upfront. Plus we have to take a dump ? and add a pick?
I swear a lot of these proposal are made with blinders on just looking at the star (Richards) and not at all paying attention to what is left.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:12 AM
  #5
mcphllp
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overpayment for by toronto for 1 year of richards

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:14 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
To Dallas:

Kaberle
Bozak
Stalberg
Draft pick? 4th 2011?

To Tor:

Richards*
Player you guys want to dump - Niskinen?

*Kind of want an assurance he'd be willing to sign an extension.
Granted Richards had 90 points this year, but Richards is NOT worth all of that.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:16 AM
  #7
WTFMAN99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
No.

I'd rather have Richards manning the point on the PP than Kaberle, and Richards playing between Neal and Eriksson at ES. If given the risk of re-signing Kaberle or Richards, Dallas might actually have a chance of retaining Richards. Kaberle walks ASAP.
I don't neccessarily think so. You guys have a great city and a good team. I could see Kaberle re-signing there.

I also think its worth it on our end. Bozak is a promising centre. Stalberg has great speed and shot, he'll be a top 6 forward. Kaberle is the Zubov replacement.

From my view point the leafs need an ace at the centre.

The only reason I suggest Richards is available is because of Hicks financial situation. I don't know if he's available any other way.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:17 AM
  #8
BigG44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafmon View Post
How can the Leafs realistically give up that kind of quantity ? Not that I don't respect Richards but at some point the Leafs have to let some guys develop ( Bozak,Stalberg) and get what they can for Kaberle to help upfront. Plus we have to take a dump ? and add a pick?
I swear a lot of these proposal are made with blinders on just looking at the star (Richards) and not at all paying attention to what is left.
Same could be said for Dallas. Niskanen is by no means a salary dump. He showed steady improvement from his 21 year old rookie season to his sophomore season. One poor year, especially considering he's still 23, does not make him a salary dump. He'd be a solid asset for any team to develop. In Dallas' current position, trading away developmental young NHLers is a waste.

Richards for Kaberle is not an improvement for Dallas, and several developmental players don't balance it out.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:20 AM
  #9
WTFMAN99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Same could be said for Dallas. Niskanen is by no means a salary dump. He showed steady improvement from his 21 year old rookie season to his sophomore season. One poor year, especially considering he's still 23, does not make him a salary dump. He'd be a solid asset for any team to develop. In Dallas' current position, trading away developmental young NHLers is a waste.

Richards for Kaberle is not an improvement for Dallas, and several developmental players don't balance it out.
I only mentioned Niskinen because on your boards a lot of guys seem to hate on him. I wasn't sure what other contract we could take on.

I think you might get that improvement actually, Kaberle can make those break out passes, take the offensive zone like no other. Bozak if he played according to statistics all year would of posted 64 points which would be a strong centre behind Ribeiro, plus you guys have better forwards for him to play with.

Stalberg is the wild card in this deal, he could really turn into a good player for you guys. Definitely a speedster.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:27 AM
  #10
BigG44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
The only reason I suggest Richards is available is because of Hicks financial situation. I don't know if he's available any other way.
..... which you clearly are not familiar with.

Assuming Dallas' budget remains the same at $45 million (meaning the sale is not complete this summer), Dallas does not have to trade Brad Richards.

ForwardCap HitSalary
Brad Richards$7,800,000$7,800,000
Mike Ribeiro$5,000,000$5,000,000
Loui Eriksson$4,266,666$3,200,000
Brenden Morrow$4,100,000$4,100,000
Steve Ott$2,950,000$2,100,000
Jamie Benn$821,666$635,000
Brian Sutherby$812,500$812,500
Toby Petersen$775,000$750,000
Tom Wandell$775,000$700,000
Brandon Segal$550,000$550,000
Total$27,850,832$25,647,500

DefenseCap HitSalary
Stephane Robidas$3,300,000$3,250,000
Trevor Daley$2,300,000$2,500,000
Karlis Skrastins$1,375,000$1,650,000
Mark Fistric$1,000,000$1,000,000
Jeff Woywitka$650,000$700,000
Total$8,625,000$9,100,000

GoalCap HitSalary
Kari Lehtonen$3,550,000$2,700,000
Total$3,550,000$2,700,000

Lost via Re-entry WaiversCap HitSalary
Sean Avery$1,937,500$2,000,000

TotalCap HitPayroll
 $41,963,332$39,447,500

That's $5.5 million to re-sign Neal, Brunnstrom, 13th forward, Grossman, Niskanen, and a backup goalie. Furthermore, based on this year's budget, and Dallas' final numbers, Avery's cap hit was not factored into Dallas' internal budget. Therefore, Dallas probably has $7.5 million to play with.

The notion that Dallas will be forced to make a trade (like Chicago) is far from the reality of the situation.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:31 AM
  #11
Mackander
 
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Kaberle=Richards
Kabs+Bozak+Stalberg>>>Richards
Joe Nieuwendyk would be all over this deal

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:32 AM
  #12
WTFMAN99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
..... which you clearly are not familiar with.

Assuming Dallas' budget remains the same at $45 million (meaning the sale is not complete this summer), Dallas does not have to trade Brad Richards.

ForwardCap HitSalary
Brad Richards$7,800,000$7,800,000
Mike Ribeiro$5,000,000$5,000,000
Loui Eriksson$4,266,666$3,200,000
Brenden Morrow$4,100,000$4,100,000
Steve Ott$2,950,000$2,100,000
Jamie Benn$821,666$635,000
Brian Sutherby$812,500$812,500
Toby Petersen$775,000$750,000
Tom Wandell$775,000$700,000
Brandon Segal$550,000$550,000
Total$27,850,832$25,647,500

DefenseCap HitSalary
Stephane Robidas$3,300,000$3,250,000
Trevor Daley$2,300,000$2,500,000
Karlis Skrastins$1,375,000$1,650,000
Mark Fistric$1,000,000$1,000,000
Jeff Woywitka$650,000$700,000
Total$8,625,000$9,100,000

GoalCap HitSalary
Kari Lehtonen$3,550,000$2,700,000
Total$3,550,000$2,700,000

Lost via Re-entry WaiversCap HitSalary
Sean Avery$1,937,500$2,000,000

TotalCap HitPayroll
 $41,963,332$39,447,500

That's $5.5 million to re-sign Neal, Brunnstrom, 13th forward, Grossman, Niskanen, and a backup goalie. Furthermore, based on this year's budget, and Dallas' final numbers, Avery's cap hit was not factored into Dallas' internal budget. Therefore, Dallas probably has $7.5 million to play with.

The notion that Dallas will be forced to make a trade (like Chicago) is far from the reality of the situation.
I see Neal getting anywhere from 4-5 million personally especially if you get any real term on the deal.

Not sure what Brunnstrom would get, from everything i've read you guys have not gotten the player you thought you would get with him.

Grossman and Niskinen are going to run you what? 1.25-2 mill a piece?

Back up goalie is 1-2 mill

13th forward - Hopefully dirt cheap.

Plus you may need a back up back up goaltender because Kari has injury troubles.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:37 AM
  #13
Modo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
To Dallas:

Kaberle
Bozak
Stalberg
Draft pick? 4th 2011?

To Tor:

Richards*
Player you guys want to dump - Niskinen?

*Kind of want an assurance he'd be willing to sign an extension.
You don't say.....think maybe the Stars would be thinking the exact same about Kaberle, who's already known to have an Eastern Conference preference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackander View Post
Kaberle=Richards
Kabs+Bozak+Stalberg>>>Richards
Joe Nieuwendyk would be all over this deal
Not really...

I'd agree that the Leafs may be giving up too much in this deal, but assuming both players leave for free agency in a year, I'd much rather have Richards than Kaberle.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:44 AM
  #14
PhilTheThrillKessel
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NO from Toronto.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:47 AM
  #15
BigG44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
I see Neal getting anywhere from 4-5 million personally especially if you get any real term on the deal.

Not sure what Brunnstrom would get, from everything i've read you guys have not gotten the player you thought you would get with him.

Grossman and Niskinen are going to run you what? 1.25-2 mill a piece?

Back up goalie is 1-2 mill

13th forward - Hopefully dirt cheap.

Plus you may need a back up back up goaltender because Kari has injury troubles.
I'm sorry, but that is absurd. James Neal will not make more money than Loui Eriksson. Furthermore, all Stars players who signed contacts last year took smaller year 1 salaries to help out the team. I think it's safe to assume Neal also gets a back-loaded contract. At the absolute worst, Neal signs the same contract as Eriksson, giving him $3.2 million next year. If thatís the case, minor trades would be made to adjust the payroll.

Furthermore, Iíd say itís highly likely Dallasí backup next season is Matt Climie or Brent Krahn who will both be making league minimum. If the budget stays the same, they donít have the luxury of spending $1 or $2 million on backup. Luckily, both AHL goalies have displayed theyíre ready for a shot at the NHL.

Brunnstrom will more than likely play for his qualifying offer or be traded. Heíll come in around $920,000.

I imagine they sign everyone (Neal, Brunnstrom, Grossman, Niskanen, 13th forward, and backup goalie) for about $7.25 million next year. Trevor Daley, Karlis Skrastins, and Brian Sutherby are the guys who should be worried about getting replaced by a cheaper player.

The moral of the story is, there's absolutely no reason to bring Hicks' finances or Dallas' payroll into any discussion unless you're asking Dallas to add significant salary.

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Old
06-15-2010, 11:56 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackander View Post
Kaberle=Richards
lol.

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Old
06-15-2010, 12:12 PM
  #17
Jevko
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Overpayment by toronto.

When you think that although brad richards is a very good player, he has a big contract while kaberle is at a bargain price. A deal like this might be more fair:

Kaberle
Grabovski
4th round pick

for

Richards

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Old
06-15-2010, 12:17 PM
  #18
WTFMAN99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jevko View Post
Overpayment by toronto.

When you think that although brad richards is a very good player, he has a big contract while kaberle is at a bargain price. A deal like this might be more fair:

Kaberle
Grabovski
4th round pick

for

Richards
Just because you would do that deal does not mean Dallas would. I actually think my offer is better.


And I am starting to think with both teams fan bases rejecting the deal, it might actually be even

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Old
06-15-2010, 12:22 PM
  #19
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no dice... way too much going to dallas and too little going to toronto. richards is solid but at 7.2M, as good as he is he takes up a major chunk of cap space...

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Old
06-15-2010, 12:27 PM
  #20
Ementy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
To Dallas:

Kaberle
Bozak
Stalberg
Draft pick? 4th 2011?

To Tor:

Richards*
Player you guys want to dump - Niskinen?

*Kind of want an assurance he'd be willing to sign an extension.
What makes toronto more deserving to get a sign and trade, while kabs is unsigned, stupid and biased in my oppinion.

Richards isn't signed either and re signing aside, Too much from Toronto

And I don't see this often, at all, cause I see 50 lopsided toronto favoured threads a day. But

Kaberle - Bozak

For

Richards.

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Old
06-15-2010, 12:31 PM
  #21
Belak Attack
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Not giving up on Bozak this early. I'd like to see how he plays next year. The value's a little off, too.

At the end of next year, both players (Kaberle, and Richards) could walk, and we'd have lost the deal in the long run, since we lose out on Bozak AND Stalberg.


It's still somewhat appealing since Richards would be a good fit here, though. Richards and Kadri could be our centers (Should Richards sign) down the road.

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Old
06-15-2010, 12:41 PM
  #22
DougGilmour93
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Kaberle for Richards +

Richards makes too much.....

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Old
06-15-2010, 12:42 PM
  #23
Belak Attack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Kaberle for Richards +

Richards makes too much.....
And is still worth more than Kaberle. He's had 90 points last year. If he came to the Leafs, I could see him putting up atleast 75, probably more.

Yeah, he's paid a lot, but you need to pay for talent and points.

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Old
06-15-2010, 12:51 PM
  #24
hatterson
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This is not even remotely close to even.

Both Kabs and Richards have 1 year left on their deal so the whole 'rental' argument is out.

I'd do Kabs + prospect (D'Amigo/DiDomenico) for Richards but nothing more.

Richards is a very good forward, and him and Kessel would look good together. However the Leafs are trying to get pieces for the future for Kabs, Richards isn't that (unless there's an extension)

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Old
06-15-2010, 01:26 PM
  #25
leafmon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
Just because you would do that deal does not mean Dallas would. I actually think my offer is better.


And I am starting to think with both teams fan bases rejecting the deal, it might actually be even
It's not even it's shortsighted.

Leafs give up three off the roster and get one. Then you come up with another guy from the Stars HF Board and have him as a throwin because they "have a hate on for him". Nice sound judgement there.
How do the Leafs fill the other two roster spots keeping in mind there is a cap. This deal hurts them this coming year when the don't have a first rounder and to top it all off Richards could walk at the end of next year.

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