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Horton's Agent Believes He Will Be Traded By The Draft

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Old
06-18-2010, 09:26 PM
  #101
Boooooth10
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Would Philly even have enough cap space for Vokoun and Horton?

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06-18-2010, 09:30 PM
  #102
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I agree. Flyers fans want the world for Carter, and he's a very talented player, but that deal quite possibly makes the Cup favorites next year and Tallon would be an idiot not to take it. It would allow Voukoun and Horton to really shine on a bigger stage with more talent around them and would give the Panthers a couple of great building blocks in Carter and Coburn. And I think in 5 years you'd say the Flyers even got the better end of the deal, but that it was still a win-win for both.
Flyers fans are disillusioned about a lot of things so it's almost impossible to talk reasonably with the majority of them. There are exceptions, of course. Carter is a great player but he's expendible in Philly because they have such deep offensive talent. Are they going to ship out Richards or Briere? Absolutely not. Giroux and VanRiemsdyk are the future studs that will replace the top guns (Gagne and Carter will be the two to leave Philly first IMO). Plus there's the emergence of Ville Leino who was very Datsyuk-like in the playoffs and I think he already took that next step in the playoffs.

Teams deal from their position of strength and for PHI, it is far and away the offense. Horton will put up similar numbers to Carter in Philly and Vokoun would be an incredible upgrade that would secure them division titles for the next three years at the very least. I'd love Coburn in FLA too but I don't know his status in Philly. I think he's a stud so I could see it being hard to get him.

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06-19-2010, 12:04 AM
  #103
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DarrenDreger
Dale Tallon says he's talking to a number of teams, but doesn't have a deal for Horton, yet. The Panthers will be moving players next week.
about 3 hours ago via UberTwitter
Do you guys think Tallon will wait until the draft, or will he pull the trigger as soon as he gets what he wants?


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06-19-2010, 08:08 AM
  #104
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Nate to Boston is looking serious, wheelers name is being mentioned

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06-19-2010, 09:03 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by StanJonathan View Post
Here's some of the Horton rumors.

http://thehockeywriters.com/nathan-h...rumours-begin/

With a hockey writer on the Bruins board saying that a deal with Boston is very close to reality.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=788004&page=2
I like the Philly possibility. Coburn, Carter, and their 1st for Nate and Vokoun? Dunno, though, if we move him to Boston, I also like the idea of getting Colborne and Wheeler. Two 6'5 guys with skill, add in Bitz, this team just got HUGE. Hope we'd then sit at #3 and take Gudbranson. Team gets bigger, meaner, more skilled.

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06-19-2010, 09:27 AM
  #106
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Is Colborne NHL ready?

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06-19-2010, 09:36 AM
  #107
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MR, thats not a good deal. The deal leaves us without a 1st round pick this year - which to me is not acceptable.

The Toronto pick may not even be Top 5 next year. Its difficult to truly project where the pick may be, but i don't Toronto is going to be as bad as they were this year. I don't see the Toronto pick landing in the Larsson range IMO.

Wheeler is just a less talented version of Horton. Nice puck skills, big frame but production has yet to meet the talent. Whilst his NHL experience is much less than Horton, age wise he is less than a year younger than Horton.

Stuart is a depth Dman. Solid #4 but just look at Seidenberg - acquiring D in the UFA market is not that difficult.

So that leaves us with Colborne. He is a blue chip prospect IMO. Potentially a top line forward. But you wouldn't select him with the 3rd overall pick. He may not even. each Horton's level.

The two most valuable assets in this trade are ours. The 3rd overall pick has more value than the Toronto pick, because firstly, we know where it projects to be, as in its at 3, whilst the Toronto pick may be in the mid teens for all we know. Secondly, a pick now is more valuable than a pick later.

Horton is clearly the other most valuable asset in the deal right.

We are giving up an awful lot here for a lot of Ifs and buts. Wheeler is not guarantee to be anything more than just a compliemtary player, nor is Colbourne and Stuart certainly is just that.

If your dealing Horton and the 3rd overall in a package, im going to what a hell of alot more than whats being suggested.

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06-19-2010, 09:36 AM
  #108
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The way Horton plays in Tampa, he could win a few Hart trophies if he came over here :p

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06-19-2010, 11:17 AM
  #109
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if boston so badly needs that 3rd overall pick for a dman, just take the dman over seguin at nr 2 and we both get what we want?

you seem to have no space for your forwards anyways...

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06-19-2010, 11:20 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by whoisournextbure View Post
if boston so badly needs that 3rd overall pick for a dman, just take the dman over seguin at nr 2 and we both get what we want?

you seem to have no space for your forwards anyways...
We can only dream...

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06-19-2010, 12:21 PM
  #111
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From the little I've read, it seems Boston fans don't really like Wheeler and rather see him gone. That in turn makes me not want him. I'd rather read another team's fans saying, "Our GM better not even think of trading ________!" or "No, I can't believe we just traded _______!" Kinda like what they're saying about Krejci (not saying we'll get him).

-ghoste

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06-19-2010, 12:28 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
From the little I've read, it seems Boston fans don't really like Wheeler and rather see him gone. That in turn makes me not want him. I'd rather read another team's fans saying, "Our GM better not even think of trading ________!" or "No, I can't believe we just traded _______!" Kinda like what they're saying about Krejci (not saying we'll get him).

-ghoste
I agree. While he is 23, I believe, and has had nearly two 20 goal seasons, he should not be the main piece of any trade with the Bruins. If Horton were to be moved to Boston, I want Colborne back. If its Colborne and the 15th pick for Horton and a later pick, Im all for it.

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06-19-2010, 04:39 PM
  #113
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Don't be turned off by Wheeler.

Kid is loaded with talent. For a guy who is 6-4 or so, he skates and moves very well. Some Bruins fans don't like him because he isn't as physical like a Milan Lucic. He needs to improve on working in front of the net, which he has. He was a beast for about a 15 game stretch this year. The former 5th overall pick is only in his 3rd season now, so there are growing pains. He also doesn't get that much ice time. I think he could easily become a consistent 30 goal scorer in the NHL one day.

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06-19-2010, 04:54 PM
  #114
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Despite what I said, I'm not totally turned off by Wheeler. A young guy still finding his way, who puts in 20 goals and has a great chance to get better is welcomed. I get the physicality disappointment because I feel the same about some of our guys. That could come with age and hopefully so. Also, we'll need some sort of replacement on wing for Horton. And I'd prefer him over Ryder as I don't really think getting Savard or Krejci is a possibility.

At the end of the day, if Tallon pulls this trigger, I'll trust his judgment.

-ghoste


Last edited by Ghoste: 06-19-2010 at 05:03 PM.
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06-19-2010, 05:21 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SlickM32 View Post
Don't be turned off by Wheeler.

Kid is loaded with talent. For a guy who is 6-4 or so, he skates and moves very well. Some Bruins fans don't like him because he isn't as physical like a Milan Lucic. He needs to improve on working in front of the net, which he has. He was a beast for about a 15 game stretch this year. The former 5th overall pick is only in his 3rd season now, so there are growing pains. He also doesn't get that much ice time. I think he could easily become a consistent 30 goal scorer in the NHL one day.
I do like Wheeler's potential, but he's like Horton v2. Plus isn't he a RFA?

All I know, is I can't wait for the draft. I will have some Dewars and diet in one hand, and a caesar burger from Flannigan's in the other.

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06-19-2010, 05:40 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
MR, thats not a good deal. The deal leaves us without a 1st round pick this year - which to me is not acceptable.
Who really cares? We would get Colbourne and have Toronto's 1st next season. Colborne is most likely just as NHL ready if not moreso than anyone we would get at #3 or below.

Quote:
The Toronto pick may not even be Top 5 next year. Its difficult to truly project where the pick may be, but i don't Toronto is going to be as bad as they were this year. I don't see the Toronto pick landing in the Larsson range IMO.
I just don't see how Toronto is going to really improve. The UFA market stinks and Burke doesn't have any picks left to trade. What the heck is he going to do? He already traded everyone of value. Sure they have Kaberle but he's not going to bring back as much as Leafs fans think he will, a good but not great top 6 forward in all likelihood, maybe a pick. OK, that's nice but then they just lost an elite puckmoving D. I have a hard time seeing the Leafs being better than a bottom 7 team. Good chance they are a lotto team.

I'm not saying the pick is likely to land in the #1-2 range, far from it, but I'd still be willing to take the gamble that it could, because the top 7 next season is better than the top 7 this season IMO. I'd rather take the gamble that we could get Larsson, Couturier, Musil, or RNH than just take Connolly, Gud, or Gormley this year. And even if the pick is #5, they can still win the lottery.

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Wheeler is just a less talented version of Horton. Nice puck skills, big frame but production has yet to meet the talent. Whilst his NHL experience is much less than Horton, age wise he is less than a year younger than Horton.
Well, I'm not really thinking of it being Horton for Wheeler. Basically I break the trade down like this: TOR 2011 1st, Wheeler, Stuart for 3rd overall. The 2 players are added to balance out the uncertainty of where the Toronto pick will land next season. I mean think about it, if you were to try to trade up from say #10 to #3, add you add Stuart and Wheeler, that is a pretty good package for the trading down team. That's plenty of value and then some.

Then you take some of that leftover value plus Colbourne for Horton. Obviously Ryder is just thrown in for cap reasons for Bos, but I think it works out for us nicely because we'd need a replacement for Horton anyway, only 4M for one more year, and he'll be in his contract year. We're getting a lot of immediate help to replace the production of Horton in Ryder, Wheeler, and Stuart. Wheeler still has a lot of room for growth, is still young, he's a real big guy with 60 pt. potential and maybe more.

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Stuart is a depth Dman. Solid #4 but just look at Seidenberg - acquiring D in the UFA market is not that difficult.
Yes, but the difference is signing Stuart right now will only cost you roughly 2M, that's what most BOS fans speculate. If he were to hit the UFA market today you'd be paying a lot more for him. He's young yet, and he's the type of D Tallon is looking for. There's no guarantee we could get a guy like him in UFA. If Seids had lower salary demands in the beginning of the summer last year, it's very doubtful we would have gotten the chance to sign him. Those type of guys aren't necessarily hard to get in UFA, but it's not like they flood the market either. Look at all the defensive D's this summer in UFA(quality ones) that you would assume Tallon would go after. I've looked and the pickings are kinda slim. I think it's far from a guarantee we get any of those guys. My fear is we end up with Andy Sutton. Stuart's a pretty good young d-man. He's progressing slowly, but still a lot of promise there. He's a nice get at that price. He'd probably end up playing on the top pairing too.


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The two most valuable assets in this trade are ours. The 3rd overall pick has more value than the Toronto pick, because firstly, we know where it projects to be, as in its at 3, whilst the Toronto pick may be in the mid teens for all we know. Secondly, a pick now is more valuable than a pick later.
Yes, but I think BOS would only make the trade for Horton if they could be getting the #3 also, otherwise they wouldn't. Let's not act like we wouldn't be getting anything good either. Colbourne is exactly what we need and the Toronto 2011 1st is a very valued asset to have. Plus a couple good young players. If the Toronto pick ends up in the mid teens, I'll eat my hat. Just because Burke says missing the playoffs again is unnacceptable, doesn't make it so. I'd really like to see how he makes that team a playoff team. It'll be fun to watch.



Quote:
We are giving up an awful lot here for a lot of Ifs and buts. Wheeler is not guarantee to be anything more than just a compliemtary player, nor is Colbourne and Stuart certainly is just that.

If your dealing Horton and the 3rd overall in a package, im going to what a hell of alot more than whats being suggested.

Yes, it's kind of a lot of ifs and buts, but Horton is not going to return an established star player in all likelihood, without complications like only 1 year left on term or at the end of his career, and if he did it would be an amazing trade for us. You know that. If everything works out to potential here for us, we could be huge winners here.

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06-19-2010, 05:41 PM
  #117
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I do like Wheeler's potential, but he's like Horton v2. Plus isn't he a RFA?

All I know, is I can't wait for the draft. I will have some Dewars and diet in one hand, and a caesar burger from Flannigan's in the other.
He's an RFA but he'll be very cheap to sign. Probably around 2M or under.

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06-19-2010, 05:53 PM
  #118
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is there any chance that the flyers will take horton straight up for carter? Perhaps the panthers can throw in a 2nd round pick and horton for carter? As far as i am concerned jeff carter is far and away a better player than tim connonly (who does not seem like a #1 STANLEY CUP winning centerman) or blake wheeler.

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06-19-2010, 05:54 PM
  #119
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I do like Wheeler's potential, but he's like Horton v2. Plus isn't he a RFA?

All I know, is I can't wait for the draft. I will have some Dewars and diet in one hand, and a caesar burger from Flannigan's in the other.
Yea sounds a lot like Horton. However, if we can sign him for 2-2.5 million then it could very be well worth it.

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06-19-2010, 06:04 PM
  #120
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is there any chance that the flyers will take horton straight up for carter? Perhaps the panthers can throw in a 2nd round pick and horton for carter? As far as i am concerned jeff carter is far and away a better player than tim connonly (who does not seem like a #1 STANLEY CUP winning centerman) or blake wheeler.
I doubt Carter gets moved, and McKenzie just tweeted that he basically won't be moving. I've never thought he would, I mean yeah Briere had good chemistry with Hartnell and Leino for one playoff season, but look at his contract and look at his age. He's not the future there, Carter is. He should be one of the few guys they consider the core there. They should be moving a lot of other guys before they move Carter. I can see Hartnell and Briere having a lot of value right now and I think they'd be on top of the list of getting moved if anyone is, despite their NTC's.

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06-19-2010, 06:40 PM
  #121
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I doubt Carter gets moved, and McKenzie just tweeted that he basically won't be moving. I've never thought he would, I mean yeah Briere had good chemistry with Hartnell and Leino for one playoff season, but look at his contract and look at his age. He's not the future there, Carter is. He should be one of the few guys they consider the core there. They should be moving a lot of other guys before they move Carter. I can see Hartnell and Briere having a lot of value right now and I think they'd be on top of the list of getting moved if anyone is, despite their NTC's.
They are going to have to move someone though, especially since they got Hamhuis. I know he is a UFA, but it sounds like they will most likely sign him, so somebody has to go. I think one of Carter, Gagne, or Hartnell will have to be moved.

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06-19-2010, 06:54 PM
  #122
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They are going to have to move someone though, especially since they got Hamhuis. I know he is a UFA, but it sounds like they will most likely sign him, so somebody has to go. I think one of Carter, Gagne, or Hartnell will have to be moved.
I think Briere, Hartnell, and Gagne are at the top of the list. Maybe Carle too, since how can they have Pronger, Timo, Carle, Coburn, and Hamhuis there? Way too much money tied up in 5 D. I can't see them trading Coburn with how he played in the playoffs, and he's young. Carle was great too, but there's more upside in Coburn. If he improves his decision making, he could be a real stud.

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06-19-2010, 06:57 PM
  #123
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I think Briere, Hartnell, and Gagne are at the top of the list. Maybe Carle too, since how can they have Pronger, Timo, Carle, Coburn, and Hamhuis there? Way too much money tied up in 5 D. I can't see them trading Coburn with how he played in the playoffs, and he's young. Carle was great too, but there's more upside in Coburn. If he improves his decision making, he could be a real stud.
That's what I didn't understand. Some Flyers fans in the locker room at pickup the other day were saying that they lost not because of goaltending but because they only had 3 defense to play the whole playoffs. I just stopped talking to them because I didn't want to tell them they were wrong about their own team because their defense is stacked and they suck in net.

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06-19-2010, 07:05 PM
  #124
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That's what I didn't understand. Some Flyers fans in the locker room at pickup the other day were saying that they lost not because of goaltending but because they only had 3 defense to play the whole playoffs. I just stopped talking to them because I didn't want to tell them they were wrong about their own team because their defense is stacked and they suck in net.
Yeah, that's pretty dumb. I think it would be smart for them to trade some guys while their value is high, this would clear some cap space. Like before the playoffs, Hartnell's value was poor, now they can get something good for him. JVR is their power forward of the future anyway. Same with Gagne, he had a great playoffs and has proven the past 2 years that despite the injury problems he can still produce well. And before the season started, Briere's and Carle's values weren't that great. They might be as high as they are going to get. Carter is one of their young stars they should be building around.

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06-19-2010, 07:09 PM
  #125
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Yeah, that's pretty dumb. I think it would be smart for them to trade some guys while their value is high, this would clear some cap space. Like before the playoffs, Hartnell's value was poor, now they can get something good for him. JVR is their power forward of the future anyway. Same with Gagne, he had a great playoffs and has proven the past 2 years that despite the injury problems he can still produce well. And before the season started, Briere's and Carle's values weren't that great. They might be as high as they are going to get. Carter is one of their young stars they should be building around.
Yea, I would agree. I think they could do some minor tweaking and build around the solid young core they have, add a goalie and set themselves up for multiple cups. I'm not even joking, they've got such a solid core there.

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