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How is a players value measured in the new NHL?

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06-17-2010, 05:07 PM
  #1
Craig71
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How is a players value measured in the new NHL?

I am confused as to how a player is regarded by organizations in the NHL. I would have assumed a player like Halak could bring us more in return than two unproven prospects. He was a solid performer and had a spectacular run which saw him carry the team on his back for 2 rounds of the playoffs, he had a great save percentage and was a solid team guy. I would like to know if most people feel the NHL is a better place today with the salary cap or the way it was before? I thought surely we could have gotten a solid roster player for Halak along with a prospect. I guess with the performance of Leighton in the playoffs most GMs feel a good goalie can be had fairly easy, or maybe Halak and his agent wanted 4-5 million per and the Blues were the only trading partner willing to give him that money. Discuss.

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06-17-2010, 05:12 PM
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InglewoodJack
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Potential is one thing, past production, has be been getting better or worse over the past few years, also, is a player at his position hard to acquire?

Let's do it for Halak:
Potential? Very good #1
Has he produced well in the past? Not bad, great in the playoffs.
Progression? In the right direction
Goalie market? Flooded with quality netminders who can be had for cheap.

That last one lowers Halak's value considerably.

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06-17-2010, 05:18 PM
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Craig71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
Potential is one thing, past production, has be been getting better or worse over the past few years, also, is a player at his position hard to acquire?

Let's do it for Halak:
Potential? Very good #1
Has he produced well in the past? Not bad, great in the playoffs.
Progression? In the right direction
Goalie market? Flooded with quality netminders who can be had for cheap.

That last one lowers Halak's value considerably.
I guess Michael Leighton had a hand in what we got today, I guess because of the cinderella run of the Habs, I like many others felt maybe we could get a proven player in a deal for either Halak or Price. I guess the new NHL handcuffs teams in placing more value on certain areas of each roster with the goalie position being the lowest.

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06-17-2010, 05:20 PM
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I think it's reasonably simple. You don't need a $8 million goalie when you can win a Stanley Cup with Anti Niemi.

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06-17-2010, 05:32 PM
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Dazed and Confused
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It's just the simple fact that goalies aren't highly valued I guess. Over the past few year very few goalies have actually got a good/substantial return: Raycroft for Rash, Toskala and salery dump for a 1st, 2nd, and a 4th; Vokoun for a 1st (in the following draft), and 2 2nd's ;and Roloson for a 1st (TDL). Outside of those guys, what goalies have returned their full perceived value? (and it looks even worse when you take the Leaf deals out of it)

Biron went for a second to Phi (TDL)
Huet went for a second to Wash (TDL)
Bryzgalov was a wavier pick up
Garon (coming off a year where he was EDM's starter) went for a second, a low level prospect, and a third stringer
Leclaire coming off a year where he lead the NHL (?, at least near the top) in shut-outs needed a second along with him to get a struggling Vermette from Ottawa (TDL)
Luongo and a #5-6 went for a struggling Bertuzzi, a #4 d-man, and a back up

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06-17-2010, 05:45 PM
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Craig71
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Doug Maclean and Nick Kypreos just said on Sportsnet that they felt Montreal could have gotten more for Halak. From any outsiders view it can be assumed that they are correct. I just wonder what other factors untold were the real reason. The only thing I can come up with would be money. I think Walsh wants 4-5 million per year for Halak and the Habs and other teams will not go that high. I hoped for more in a trade for either goalie. Maybe Gauthier and staff feel this Eller guy is the real deal. It may turn out to be a great deal for us down the road but like in any trade you always hope for more.

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06-17-2010, 05:54 PM
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Eller is under contract for the next 2 years at a minimal cap hit, before he becomes a restricted FA. Halak was a restricted FA, and is likely going to get a contract in excess of 5 million per season. Since we signed Gionta, Cammy, and traded for Gomez last year we need to balance out our forward group with affordable players. Eller fits that description while giving us the upside of being a potentially PPG player down the road. He was an extremely valuable commodity in todays NHL when considering contract. A guy who is NHL ready but wont be paid like an NHLer for another few years, but with plenty of upside.

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06-17-2010, 06:01 PM
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King Woodballs
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What ever this board thinks
divide by 2

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06-17-2010, 06:02 PM
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BLONG7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Eller is under contract for the next 2 years at a minimal cap hit, before he becomes a restricted FA. Halak was a restricted FA, and is likely going to get a contract in excess of 5 million per season. Since we signed Gionta, Cammy, and traded for Gomez last year we need to balance out our forward group with affordable players. Eller fits that description while giving us the upside of being a potentially PPG player down the road. He was an extremely valuable commodity in todays NHL when considering contract. A guy who is NHL ready but wont be paid like an NHLer for another few years, but with plenty of upside.
Halak's playoff run has his agent looking for too much dough...is he worth 4-5M??? Only time will tell....I think the Habs may have made a real good trade here guys...

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06-17-2010, 06:05 PM
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I just read somewhere else a good argument, How many more goaltenders are gonna go in the first round from now on and the answer was not many, the investment for teams to take them there is definitely not going to be worth it.

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06-17-2010, 06:05 PM
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Craig71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
What ever this board thinks
divide by 2
If Eller scores in his first game as a Hab then this board will have his value in multiples of 10.

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06-17-2010, 06:08 PM
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people don't understand there's a difference between the value of trades offered here on HF and the actual value of players in the NHL.

they actually convince themselves that trades offered here are the benchmark or the foundation of what trades are in the NHL.

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06-17-2010, 06:13 PM
  #13
Craig71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
people don't understand there's a difference between the value of trades offered here on HF and the actual value of players in the NHL.

they actually convince themselves that trades offered here are the benchmark or the foundation of what trades are in the NHL.
I don't think it's just that, we are fans of the Habs and want the best thing for the team no matter how unreasonable. If someone proposed Halak for Crosby straight up then somebody on here would still say it was a bad deal for the Habs. I merely asked a question regarding a players value and how trades are determined in todays NHL.

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06-17-2010, 06:37 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig71 View Post
I don't think it's just that, we are fans of the Habs and want the best thing for the team no matter how unreasonable. If someone proposed Halak for Crosby straight up then somebody on here would still say it was a bad deal for the Habs. I merely asked a question regarding a players value and how trades are determined in todays NHL.
no...that's exactly what it is.

Had I proposed a Halak for Eller + Schultz trade this past offseason, i'm sure 90% of this board would of been ecstatic.

I really think people think they know what actual player value is...

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06-17-2010, 08:42 PM
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Whatever the best offer from another GM is.

#1 - Supply and demand. Post #414 http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=786505&page=17

#2 - Salary Cap. Actual or organizational imposed. For both teams involved.

#3 - Accomplishments. Halak has only played in a total of 122 games in his career. No more than 45 in a season. People get hot from time to time.

#4 - Players current contract status. Although they probably will, STL still hasn't signed Halak. And he has worm-tongue whispering in his ear (Alan Walsh)

#5 - Potential going forward. This is highly opinionated. We may say Halak is potential for Vezina. Other GM may say reliable #1. So he'll only pay for what he says (may not be what he thinks).

#6 - The unproven/free goalie success lately. Teams will be more likely to try goalies in their system, UFA, waiver before giving up young, cheap, free *roster* players for a goalie..

IMO, which has been that we would only get prospect/picks for either goalie.

Edit: #7 - Players demands. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/..._out_montreal/ We don't know the story behind doors. Maybe Halak still wanted out. Other GM's may have known this as well.


Last edited by Jiggernaut: 06-17-2010 at 08:54 PM.
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