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Halak Traded to St. Louis for Lars Eller & Ian Schultz

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06-17-2010, 07:05 PM
  #876
RE-HABS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
yup,

and cgy scouts have not been the most succesful either
Can't be the best of scouts when they are comparing a young Dman in Shultz to a forward like Mayers.

And even if he did turn out to be that type of Dman, he would be a tough guy who can hit and fight and contribute once in awhile, sounds like a decent 2nd player.

EDIT: Sorry, was thinking of his brother. He is a RW, even still it adds something needed in size and grit.


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06-17-2010, 07:06 PM
  #877
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time will tell, are you from japan?

hab fans all over.
From Halifax, and back now in Halifax.

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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Funny how everyone claims to know scouts.....from what I read on HFB, there must be a million scouts around.....
Well smart ass, if you must know, my brother worked and played with a couple of them out there for a while, and he has been getting nothing but chirping from them (and others) all evening via text message. I'm guessing they also read HF Boards.

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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Can't be the best of scouts when they are comparing a young Dman in Shultz to a forward like Mayers.

And even if he did turn out to be that type of Dman, he would be a tough guy who can hit and fight and contribute once in awhile, sounds like a decent 2nd player.
I think you'll find that Ian Schultz (former property of the St.Louis Blues) is a RWer...

But I don't think we're talking about Flames scouts here. All I know is that they're scouts in some capacity, for whatever level, that are based in Calgary. I'll have to ask my brother if he calls back again later on.


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06-17-2010, 07:07 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by Souvenirs View Post
Price struggled. But why do people assume that his struggles had everything to do with pressure? Or that he choked? I think he's just a normal developing goalie that hit some rough patches in his career. Is it rare? Steve Mason, or Marc-André Fleury anyone?
I don't think Halak handled pressure better. He just played better. Price had to be more experienced and become more mature.
Price just plain sucks, and will never lead us anywhere.

Ask me again how I feel, when we don't even make the playoffs next season....

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06-17-2010, 07:08 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Can't be the best of scouts when they are comparing a young Dman in Shultz to a forward like Mayers.

And even if he did turn out to be that type of Dman, he would be a tough guy who can hit and fight and contribute once in awhile, sounds like a decent 2nd player.
Don't want to nitpick, but Schultz is a RW.

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06-17-2010, 07:09 PM
  #880
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A Kekalainen's first rounder is often good news for your team.

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06-17-2010, 07:10 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Dallas traded for Lehtonen, Thrashers got Ivan Vishnevskiy and a fourth-round draft pick in 2010.

I think we came out pretty fair in comparison to that deal for Halak. Lehtonen is a former 2nd overall pick with over 200 + NHL games, 100 wins, 87 losses, 17 OT losses, 2.87 GAA and a .912 SVP.

Halak has 101 games played, 56 winis, 34 losses, 7 OT losses, 2.62 GAA and a .919 SVP.

Both are 26 and 25 respectively, this deal for Halak looks more than fair.
you're forgetting some impressive playoffs stats that Halak has and Lehtonen has not !

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06-17-2010, 07:11 PM
  #882
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Got home, ate, took a shower, played a little bit of poker. Now that I cooled down, I think I can write my thoughts on this situation.

I believe it's not so bad as far as trade value goes, but as far as team improvement goes, I have doubts. It's a wait and see move.

The trade. Well, if you actually think about it, we got 1 really good, Subban like prospect and one semi-goon with Neil light potential (most likely Chipchura the 2nd though) for Halak's RIGHTS. He still isn't signed. And if he isn't by July 1st, there can be offer sheets. This lowers the value of Halak, and by waiting longer, his value would have DECREASED, due to his contract situation. So, considering both goalies are in this situation, trading now for these 2 guys was likely the best he could get.

So, for Gauthier, the trade itself is good. It's as good value as it's going to get. And trading Price would have likely ended in lower return.

However, as far as team improvement goes, it's pretty bad. Price might become better, but currently he is not as good a goalie as Halak. However, his attitude in the playoffs showed lots of positives. He's working hard, and his head is getting in the right place.

Then, Eller. Where do you put him, if he's NHL ready? 4th line, since the top 3 are likely locks for Gomez, Plekanec and Moore? If one of Plekanec and Moore are not signed, do we fully expect that guy to fill in? Pacioretty showed last year that this isn't kindergarten hockey, it's hard to really perform in the big league. So expecting as I've read 2nd line center hockey from that kid next year is quite optimistic. I see for him a season like Maxpac, somewhere between the two leagues.

Schultz is going to the Hamilton camp, and could fall to the Cyclones. I see no NHL in his immediate future. Maybe 2012-2013.

Moreover, Halak's no Théodore. Halak is an awesome athlete and competitor, and his work ethic is unquestionnable. I can't see him dip down. So while we did get the best value for him, IMO it was not even value in long term.

So, worse goalie, and no immediate improvement, save for cap space, but Halak was pretty low there already.

I'm guessing the org is banking on Subban, Pacioretty, one of White/Maxwell/Pyatt and Desjardins to step up big next year. It's not a bad assumption. But with Plekanec's negotiations seemingly dead, some holes remaining and not too much money left, it's hard for me to believe we will improve this off season. Best scenario is we stay put, and a lot of it will be on Price's shoulders.

It's one of those trades where you have to wait 5 years to decide who won. A bit like the Rivet - Gorges trade. However, doing this kind of trade on an 8th place team is a bit questionnable; we're not aiming for a rebuild here. As far as I can see.

The rest of the summer is going to be interesting. Sadly, it might also be nervewracking and heartwrenching.

So, for right now, my view of the trade immediately is - Blues won, but it's no Roy catastrophe. We're headed for another nailbiting march-april in 2011.

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06-17-2010, 07:13 PM
  #883
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I don't understand. Do you guys actually think that Halak was going to play the way he did the playoffs this year over the long term? Chances are he may never play that well ever again, let alone over the course of one full season.

Some of you guys remind me of the crybaby bandwagon girls on my facebook acting like we just traded the greatest player of all time. Half of them never saw a hockey game before the playoffs.

Jose Theodore, Cristobal Huet, Andrew Raycroft, Tim Thomas, Kari Lehtonen, Peter Budaj, Vesa Toskala, Alex Auld, Michael Leighton, Manny Fernandez, Mathieu Garon, John Grahame, Marc Denis, David Aebischer....ONE AND DONE

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06-17-2010, 07:14 PM
  #884
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good, no more contreversy. Price is #1.

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Old
06-17-2010, 07:14 PM
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I think you'll find that Ian Schultz (former property of the St.Louis Blues) is a RWer...

But I don't think we're talking about Flames scouts here. All I know is that they're scouts in some capacity, for whatever level, that are based in Calgary. I'll have to ask my brother if he calls back again later on.
My mistake.

Even if he is only a Mayers type he addresses a need on a 4th line to 3rd line capacity. Mayers was a sought after guy in his prime.

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06-17-2010, 07:15 PM
  #886
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this trade ruined my day

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06-17-2010, 07:15 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I don't understand. Do you guys actually think that Halak was going to play the way he did the playoffs this year over the long term? Chances are he may never play that well ever again, let alone over the course of one full season.

Some of you guys remind me of the crybaby bandwagon girls on my facebook acting like we just traded the greatest player of all time. Half of them never saw a hockey game before the playoffs.

Jose Theodore, Cristobal Huet, Andrew Raycroft, Tim Thomas, Kari Lehtonen, Peter Budaj, Vesa Toskala, Alex Auld, Michael Leighton, Manny Fernandez, Mathieu Garon, John Grahame, Marc Denis, David Aebischer....ONE AND DONE
You forgot Steve Mason and Jim Carey

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06-17-2010, 07:15 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
you're forgetting some impressive playoffs stats that Halak has and Lehtonen has not !
Steve Penny had a good run one time too.

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06-17-2010, 07:15 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
From Halifax, and back now in Halifax.
Well smart ass, if you must know, my brother worked and played with a couple of them out there for a while, and he has been getting nothing but chirping from them (and others) all evening via text message. I'm guessing they also read HF Boards.
Lucky him.... played with John Chabot, Paul Pageau, Daniel Metivier, Corrado Michalef, Normand Rochefort...Met coaches like Alain Vigneault, Alain Sans Cartier (both with the Hull Olympics for whom I made an appearance as an emergency recall from Junior B) and even played pick up with Stephane Richer (who was much younger and grew up in a village close to ours)....but still today, I really dont know any scouts....

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06-17-2010, 07:16 PM
  #890
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Blues win Habs lose, simple as that

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06-17-2010, 07:17 PM
  #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I don't understand. Do you guys actually think that Halak was going to play the way he did the playoffs this year over the long term? Chances are he may never play that well ever again, let alone over the course of one full season.

Some of you guys remind me of the crybaby bandwagon girls on my facebook acting like we just traded the greatest player of all time. Half of them never saw a hockey game before the playoffs.

Jose Theodore, Cristobal Huet, Andrew Raycroft, Tim Thomas, Kari Lehtonen, Peter Budaj, Vesa Toskala, Alex Auld, Michael Leighton, Manny Fernandez, Mathieu Garon, John Grahame, Marc Denis, David Aebischer....ONE AND DONE
And no matter how many times you recreate these posts, it still doesn't even put the "ONE" in Price's column yet... and that's kinda the point now, isn't it.

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06-17-2010, 07:17 PM
  #892
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Love that Gauthier wasn't blinded by that playoffs run and is thinking about the future.

Though I hope the boo birds won't destroy Price's career.

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06-17-2010, 07:17 PM
  #893
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Actually, its not a fair comparisson......Eller played in the SEL (Sweden Elite League - probably better than AHL) and played in the AHL last year.....really no comparisson here......Price played the playoffs in the AHL and went straight to the NHL......Pacioretty is not the same kind of talent.....needs more seasoning......
For Price it's no so much that they rushed him to the NHL, it's that they traded whatever veteran help he had after he was in the league a half season. The Huet trade set Price's development back at least a year(uncontested #1 and going into the playoffs with 2 rookies in nets).

I'm sure Eller is close to NHL, either to start next year or after a half year more seasoning. It would be very very dumb for the Habs to pencil him in as 2nd line center. I prefer the Detroit approach, let the kids force their way into the NHL and err on the side of caution.

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06-17-2010, 07:19 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by Hockfan View Post
Blues win Habs lose, simple as that
How about they both win?......considered that?...I think they both got what they wanted......

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06-17-2010, 07:21 PM
  #895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I don't understand. Do you guys actually think that Halak was going to play the way he did the playoffs this year over the long term? Chances are he may never play that well ever again, let alone over the course of one full season.

Some of you guys remind me of the crybaby bandwagon girls on my facebook acting like we just traded the greatest player of all time. Half of them never saw a hockey game before the playoffs.

Jose Theodore, Cristobal Huet, Andrew Raycroft, Tim Thomas, Kari Lehtonen, Peter Budaj, Vesa Toskala, Alex Auld, Michael Leighton, Manny Fernandez, Mathieu Garon, John Grahame, Marc Denis, David Aebischer....ONE AND DONE
Waffledave...yes, people actually believe that the way Halak played vs. the Pens & Caps, is the way he will play long term. LMAO

I'm not trying to say Halak isn't/won't be good, but come on...performances like that are rarely duplicated over the course of a regular season.

Lets also not forget that the Habs helped Halak a great deal during rounds 1 & 2

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06-17-2010, 07:21 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
For Price it's no so much that they rushed him to the NHL, it's that they traded whatever veteran help he had after he was in the league a half season. The Huet trade set Price's development back at least a year(uncontested #1 and going into the playoffs with 2 rookies in nets).

I'm sure Eller is close to NHL, either to start next year or after a half year more seasoning. It would be very very dumb for the Habs to pencil him in as 2nd line center. I prefer the Detroit approach, let the kids force their way into the NHL and err on the side of caution.
The cap situation may end up forcing our hand and give Eller the shot at 2nd line C.......especially if they decide that they want a Frolov to complement that line....Maxwell and co are not 2nd line material.....

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06-17-2010, 07:21 PM
  #897
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Perhaps he feels "secure", but if we're talking about pressure to live up to expectations, I would have to believe he'd be more worried about living up to the expectations of those who keep showing that kind of faith in him as opposed to the beer-soaked arm chair GMs in the 300s. I can't imagine any professional athlete thinking any other way.

Especially since he has to sit in the room with those other guys and justify why he's there and not the other guy who turned their blood sweat and tears into better results fairly often. We're just consuming the product as an audience. Whether they vocalize it to each other or not, it's the guys in the locker room and in the front office you worry about letting down, not the fans.
That's not really quite fair is it? There are plenty of players who care about their respective city and fans who want to bring a championship wherever it is they play.

But that aside, I do agree that the pressure on Price has now increased exponentially. Although our original disagreement was on who has had to face more pressure previously in which I maintain that Halak has been relatively shielded from expectations and pressure from management, teammates and the fans. Your arguments even support this claim.

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06-17-2010, 07:22 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
For Price it's no so much that they rushed him to the NHL, it's that they traded whatever veteran help he had after he was in the league a half season. The Huet trade set Price's development back at least a year(uncontested #1 and going into the playoffs with 2 rookies in nets).

I'm sure Eller is close to NHL, either to start next year or after a half year more seasoning. It would be very very dumb for the Habs to pencil him in as 2nd line center. I prefer the Detroit approach, let the kids force their way into the NHL and err on the side of caution.
We have to realize that Huet didn't seem like that talkative of a guy, and he was French. I doubt he really mentored Price at all, especially since they were competing for the same spot and Huet didn't have that much NHL experience to begin with.

Same goes for Halak, young and a language barrier. Both competing for the same spot.

I believe Price will benefit greatly from having a veteran back-up.

Another thing, this trade is great because it basically makes Maxwell redundant. Eller is better than him and Leblanc should be ready in a couple of years. Sorry Ben, but you just aren't impressive.

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06-17-2010, 07:23 PM
  #899
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
How about they both win?......considered that?...I think they both got what they wanted......
Agreed. It's not (always) about fleecing the other team.

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06-17-2010, 07:24 PM
  #900
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BTW Bobby Mac tweeted that the only other suitor was San Jose.

Also Tim Panaccio, a flyers blogger said the Flyers were not players at all because they don't think Halak is legit and because they don't want to lose JVR or Giroux to get a goalie. He also blogged that Gauthier was looking for no NHL salaries coming back, but one top prospect and the Flyers had noone like that.

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