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Convince Me We Aren't That Far Away from a Playoff Team

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Old
06-23-2010, 02:46 PM
  #1
CavsandJax21
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Convince Me We Aren't That Far Away from a Playoff Team

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to get the feeling that 2008-09 was just an aberration and last season was more of the norm. I mean going from the playoffs to the 4th pick is really unsettling IMO because it just is not progress. But then again, I have no reason to believe that Mason can be that bad again.

I am willing to give Arniel a chance because Hitch held most of our young guys back, as was evidenced by Voracek and Mason playing better when Hitch got the boot. But reading more of these posts, I have a bad feeling that we will be back in this position next year. While I do feel that we have plenty of talent that just needs time, someone convince me how we will make the playoffs.

Sorry if I sound pessimistic. I'm a Clevelander of course lol.

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06-23-2010, 03:05 PM
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Nanabijou
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Originally Posted by CavsandJax21 View Post
Convince Me We Aren't That Far Away from a Playoff Team
Detroit's not a long drive for you, especially from Cleveland.

Seriously, though, I think we'll be in the mix for the 6,7,8 spot this year. Not great, but a step back in the right direction. I think the young'uns will thrive under Arniel.

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06-23-2010, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CavsandJax21 View Post
The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to get the feeling that 2008-09 was just an aberration and last season was more of the norm. I mean going from the playoffs to the 4th pick is really unsettling IMO because it just is not progress. But then again, I have no reason to believe that Mason can be that bad again.

I am willing to give Arniel a chance because Hitch held most of our young guys back, as was evidenced by Voracek and Mason playing better when Hitch got the boot. But reading more of these posts, I have a bad feeling that we will be back in this position next year. While I do feel that we have plenty of talent that just needs time, someone convince me how we will make the playoffs.

Sorry if I sound pessimistic. I'm a Clevelander of course lol.
...and this is why I can't stand the drama queens, because it leads to worries like this.

The simple truth is that the playoffs aren't guaranteed next year no matter what we do. We took some awful hits on the blueline, and most of the kids who were supposed to keep stepping up didn't - but that's a known phenomenon, so it's hardly new. Folks who were predicting doom for two years ago due to the number of new youngsters were just off by a year, really.

Also, sudden drops like that are hardly unprecedented. See: Philadelphia, 2007.

It's possible that things will continue to be awful. Anything's possible. But the odds are against it, and they can be even more in our favor if we get additional help on the blueline, or if we pull off a good trade for a #1 center.

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06-23-2010, 03:08 PM
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Convince me why I should convince you.

Until they do it, we're going to have the fans that think like you and nothing we say will change it.

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06-23-2010, 03:19 PM
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Sorry can't do it. My hopes for next season are down the crapper.

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06-23-2010, 03:34 PM
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Last year was as big of a anomaly in the bad as 2 years ago was in the good.

The team is somewhere in the middle.

Far enough that we need our young players to step up. Far enough that one player isn't going to get us over the hump. But close enough that things will get better

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06-23-2010, 03:47 PM
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On the surface, it looks like a terrible year, and it pretty much was, don't get me wrong. I've been a die hard since 00-01, and last year hurt more than the previous 9 combined. However, if you look deeper and kinda reach a little, it looks better for this year.

1) Sure, we have the #4 pick, but we were only 3 games under .500 and 16 points out of a playoff spot. 16 points is a lot but, stay with me here, how many leads did we lose in the 3rd period last year? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I know it was a lot. That is a lot of points we just pissed away in the 3rd period. Taking even half of those draws us over .500 and closer to a playoff spot. Another reason last year was so tough, shootouts. Hopefully this year will be a better year for those as well.

2) A new coaching staff. This team is ready to score. There is a lot of firepower on this team ready to break out. We just needed the right coach to harness it and use it. Hopefully we got that.

3) The young players taking a step. I know we say this every year, but I believe it more than ever. After Hitch was let go, you could see Brassard, Voracek, Russell, and Mason all take huge steps. Voracek had already taken a big step, but he only got better. I think our young players are really going to impress this year.

I tend to believe this team is closer to playoffs than to #1 pick because of the complete meltdown in the 3rd period of a lot of games last year. That cost us a lot of points. When this team learns to hold 3rd period leads, then we'll be back in the playoffs.

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06-23-2010, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
Sorry can't do it. My hopes for next season are down the crapper.
OH COME ON!

They aren't even circling the bowl yet!

I'll know after July is over when we'll know how Scottie has done with the draft and open market.

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06-23-2010, 04:45 PM
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OH COME ON!

They aren't even circling the bowl yet!

I'll know after July is over when we'll know how Scottie has done with the draft and open market.
I feel the exact same.

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06-23-2010, 05:09 PM
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Sorry can't do it. My hopes for next season are down the crapper.
And they say it's the women who are irrationally emotional...

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Old
06-23-2010, 05:09 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
...and this is why I can't stand the drama queens, because it leads to worries like this.
Actually, it's the practical, stand-patters that lead to the negativity, because the argument always becomes "how can you make a move like that when then team is more than one piece away..." etc etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Last year was as big of a anomaly in the bad as 2 years ago was in the good.

The team is somewhere in the middle.

Far enough that we need our young players to step up. Far enough that one player isn't going to get us over the hump. But close enough that things will get better
I've said all along that the most important acquisition of the offseason would be the new coach. Nothing has changed there. I said this because whomever it was going to be would be tasked with making all of the players better - Brass, Jake, DD, Commie, Tyutin - which would impact the team more than any other single move.

I'm going to take your bait here though and say that just because of "Far enough that one player isn't going to get us over the hump" doesn't mean that one player wouldn't nudge things that much closer.

I like this team's chances to compete for a playoff spot (emphasis on "compete for") irrespective of player personnel changes/moves this offseason, just because I believe the team will respond to Arniel and get better individually and thus as a team. For sure there are things that could be accomplished on the personnel front that would make me like them even more.

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06-23-2010, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
Sorry can't do it. My hopes for next season are down the crapper.
Yeah same for me, really. It would be nice to see them do well... but I'm sure it is still a few years off. But I won't be in Ohio anymore next season anyway, so maybe it's better that I won't be able to see any of the terrible games

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06-23-2010, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Actually, it's the practical, stand-patters that lead to the negativity, because the argument always becomes "how can you make a move like that when then team is more than one piece away..." etc etc.
I'm going to set you on fire now.

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06-23-2010, 05:38 PM
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I'm going to set you on fire now.
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And they say it's the women who are irrationally emotional...
What have we here?

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06-23-2010, 05:43 PM
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Viqsi
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What have we here?
You're joining DSL in the bonfire now, skippy.





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Old
06-23-2010, 06:34 PM
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CapnCornelius
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Originally Posted by CavsandJax21 View Post
The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to get the feeling that 2008-09 was just an aberration and last season was more of the norm. I mean going from the playoffs to the 4th pick is really unsettling IMO because it just is not progress. But then again, I have no reason to believe that Mason can be that bad again.

I am willing to give Arniel a chance because Hitch held most of our young guys back, as was evidenced by Voracek and Mason playing better when Hitch got the boot. But reading more of these posts, I have a bad feeling that we will be back in this position next year. While I do feel that we have plenty of talent that just needs time, someone convince me how we will make the playoffs.

Sorry if I sound pessimistic. I'm a Clevelander of course lol.
I've got good news and bad news. The bad news first--Lebron will be leaving Cleveland. The good news? He's going to be centering Nash's line and playing the point on power play. So, I think you'll find things will work out nicely for everyone involved.

...back to reality, though I know the sunshine patrol would prefer to always see the glass as only slightly less than full even when we are down to the last ounce, as with last year, there are too many unknowns to say how this team is going to do. In fact, this year may be worse as far as predicting the outcome since we have an unknown commodity at coach and given the epic disaster that was Niki Filatov's first legit attempt to stick with the big club. Our defense is an utter mess. Maybe the up-tempo style covers it up by turning every game into a high scoring affair...or maybe it just further exposes the defense.

Far too early to know what off-season moves might help things. As last year was a make or break year for Hitch, this may be a make or break year for Howson. At the moment, I'd expect a slight improvement, but I'd also expect us to miss the playoffs. Still a long time before September though.

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06-23-2010, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Last year was as big of a anomaly in the bad as 2 years ago was in the good.

The team is somewhere in the middle.

Far enough that we need our young players to step up. Far enough that one player isn't going to get us over the hump. But close enough that things will get better
Well said. I, too, felt at the end of last season that this teams talent level was somewhere between the results of the past two seasons. Howson makes a few good adds, Arneil lives up to his reputation, Masons play evens out, the other kids kick it up a notch, and we avoid serious injury problems this could be a fun year.

A lot of "ifs" but I honestly feel pretty confident that those things will happen.

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06-23-2010, 06:44 PM
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I disagree with people who say we aren't 1 player away from being good. I think this team is missing that 1 player on offense and that 1 player on defense that can move everyone into there proper positions. A #1 center puts our forwards where they should be and a #1 defender puts our defenders where they should be. Either one that we could acquire I think puts us up there in the top 6. We have good top level and depth wingers and good depth centers and we have good depth defenders. This is a team who I really believe can be great if the right player is brought in at center or defense. I prefer defender but would be happy with a center.

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06-23-2010, 06:56 PM
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The problem is that Howson is banking too much on unfulfilled promises.

Mason needs to play better next year.
Voracek needs to continue to improve next year.
Russell needs to continue to improve next year.
Brassard needs to play much better next year.
Filatov needs to come back and play much better next year.
Commodore needs to play better next year.
Klesla needs to remain healthy next year.
etc. etc.

That's too many question marks. Instead, he needs to hedge his bets by going 50/50. Howson needs to trade a few of those assets to get a player (like Spezza, Brad Richards, Marleau, etc.) who we KNOW will come in and play very well. Mix that with 3 or 4 guys who SHOULD improve next year and you will have a playoff team.

Instead of banking 100% on bringing in outside talent (a more Maclean type thing to do), he's 100% banking on internal development. That, in my opinion, is too risky of a bet. Once again, I say go 50/50.

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06-23-2010, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
...back to reality, though I know the sunshine patrol would prefer to always see the glass as only slightly less than full even when we are down to the last ounce...
...as opposed to the Chicken Little crowd, who'll flip out and start screaming that we need to fire this guy and that guy and trade everybody as soon as the first sip is taken from a freshly refilled glass...

See, I can mock strawmen too! It's fun!

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06-23-2010, 07:18 PM
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There you two go again, dividing us with your divisive divisiveness. Kumbaya, chums.

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Old
06-23-2010, 07:41 PM
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I'm going to set you on fire now.
Can't get much hotter than I am now!


*tsssssss

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06-23-2010, 08:17 PM
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...as opposed to the Chicken Little crowd, who'll flip out and start screaming that we need to fire this guy and that guy and trade everybody as soon as the first sip is taken from a freshly refilled glass...

See, I can mock strawmen too! It's fun!
Yeah, after 10 years of losing there's no need to make changes.

Yes, all those crazy Chicken Littles who said that Ken Hitchcock needed to go in December. Good thing we didn't listen to those guys, I mean, look at how Kenny turned things around. All those crazy Chicken Littles who said that Doug MacLean should be fired, what did they know? Look at how many offers to be GM Doug has received since we made the mistake of letting him go. Those morons that dared to suggest that Gilbert Brule wasn't going to be our first line center and we should look into other options--glad we didn't listen to them.

I think you've got the wrong classic literary character--perhaps the Greek's Cassandra is more appropriate given this franchise's (and some portion of its fanbase as well) history of ignoring warning signs of troubles until it is far too late.

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06-23-2010, 09:06 PM
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Viqsi
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Yeah, after 10 years of losing there's no need to make changes.
And of course absolutely no changes have been made. It's shameful, I daresay. Shameful!

Y'know what really is irritating about this? Nobody's ever going to be convinced of anything here, because you have your hero and I have mine, and I've got this feeling that much of what your guy did was that he was lucky with those acts of chutzpah and timing and ultimately it all fell apart just as quickly as it came together, and you're convinced that my guy isn't willing to even consider the necessary risks and that if there is success it'll be purely luck of how the folks he's counting on turn out. Arguably both positions would be correct, but at this rate no middle ground is ever going to be found.

I dunno how that's going to work out. I'd prefer this remain a forum for discussion rather than proselytization, but that seems to be the preferred game of a certain few, and I'm letting myself get dragged into that idiotic mishegaas.

So, to heck with it. I'm in this to be entertained, and that doesn't require being self-righteous.


Alternatively: NYAH NYAH NYAH, I'M BETTER THAN YOU.

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Old
06-23-2010, 09:24 PM
  #25
Whaley Klesla 97
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I love the Blue Jackets and dont miss a game, but I find myself asking the same thing. Im really starting to realize that without that dominate top line center we arent going anywhere soon. I think our defense is better than they played last year, and the key is obviously Mason. We will see what Howson has up his sleeve...he atleast has to get a 2nd line center and let Vermette take over the top line...

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