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Halak traded to St. Louis for Lars Eller and Ian Schultz Part II

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Old
06-17-2010, 09:34 PM
  #26
Etienne
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Gauthier is also giving Halak a tough assignment by trading him to the Blues. Central is probably the worst division to be in for a goaltender and St-Louis' defense isn't as good as ours was in the 2nd half of the season and the playoffs (even with Markov injured). There's unfortunately no way to tell but I bet Jaro will miss Hal Gill big time with Byfuglien or Holmstrom parked in front of him 12 games a year. Western teams also crash the net a lot more than in the East and that has always been Halak's weakness, imo. Even more than his rebound control (also he got those right during the playoffs).

But.... we'll see. I haven't seen Eller play so I can't judge and I'm neither confident or negative about Price. He's further along than we could have hoped when he got drafted but I don't think he's shown #1 stability so far.

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06-17-2010, 09:34 PM
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I like Halak...but his agent seems like a dick. He also probably didn't want to play here....and did ask for a trade... I mean, Price was a damn good sport the whole way... I don't mind the Halak trade...I did post in the other thread this morning that I expected a decent prospect and a pick...they go tthat.

Now, I really want to see Gauthier do the following...

a) If he doesn't keep Pleks, resign Moore, get a power forward (Penner, Horton, etc) and a stud D man (Volchenkov, Hamhuis), get a backup (Biron) and pray to God Pouillot and Eller have breakout seasons....and that Price finally puts it all together.

I think we've seen this playoffs that if you surround a goalie with a strong D, you can win a cup. I think Price is better than both Niemi and Leighton...hopefully Gauthier is active this offseason.

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06-17-2010, 09:34 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Vincecarder View Post
Find me another goalie with 100 NHL games that carried an average team past the president trophy winners and defending champs?
I can name a goalie with less than 100 NHL game that get a 7th seed team past the team you are talking about... does it count?

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06-17-2010, 09:35 PM
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06-17-2010, 09:36 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
1) Whenever you trade a 9th rounder for a 13th overall pick (that is panning out) and a 3rd round pick, you've done good asset management. The fact Halak even played 1 NHL game is incredible.

2) Trading now let's the Habs brass know what they have before the draft. Wait too long and maybe the offer is off the table.

3) Sign Price before and then teams know you are dealing Halak, therefore lowering his value. It's a double-edged sword.
1) I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. So we can trade Subban for Brendan Smith because "he's panning out" and was drafted higher?

2) Don't agree again, sorry. They could of waited till the draft or they could have simply got a deal done in the next few days. But from all reports I've heard, Gauthier didn't give too many other teams a chance to chime in.

3) Again, not agreeing. Most people here wanted to keep both goalies. The salary cap would have allowed it. They were both RFA's. I don't think this would of lowered his value at all. Either way, we could of got Eller, IMO, whether they Blues thought Halak was staying or going anyway.

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06-17-2010, 09:39 PM
  #31
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I was a Halak fanboy, I liked him better, mainly because of his attitude and work ethic.

THAT BEING SAID, I was preaching for dealing one of our goalies, so we could get valuable, cap-friendly, young assets in exchange. Guess what, we did so!

Eller is definitely a great prospect and one big reason to look forward next season.

My only concern is how the fans will deal with it, and how Price will do. That will be crucial, especially if Halak starts off well in St. Louis.

I'm shocked to learn Gauthier never really entertained offers for Price. Even if he had the firm intention of dealing Halak, isn't that how you drive a player's price tag up? Anyway... I guess I don't know enough to assess the situation accurately.

Next in line: get that top-6 forward, who'll be more competitive, more complete and more consistant than Kostitsyn. Like I mentionned in other threads, the no-show by Andrei in the playoffs just was too much for me. I've been patient with both of these guys, I was one of Sergei's biggest defenders earlier this season, but at some point, there's just so much the organization can endure from two young guys. If Gauthier really is serious about making us a contender, we've got to improve and add another good winger, at the expense of both Kostitsyn brothers, even if we have to give them for remotely nothing. Addition by substraction.

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06-17-2010, 09:39 PM
  #32
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Yup! Our skinny vegetarian GM has coconuts the size of Saturn.

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06-17-2010, 09:40 PM
  #33
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I'm starting to think Halak and or his agent just asked the club to trade him. Why else would they not even try to sign him? Makes no sense.

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06-17-2010, 09:40 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
1) Whenever you trade a 9th rounder for a 13th overall pick (that is panning out) and a 3rd round pick, you've done good asset management. The fact Halak even played 1 NHL game is incredible.
No offense but that one of the silliest things I've ever heard.

What if you trade a player that was never drafted or drafted really late (Robitaille, Hull, St-Louis) for a top 5 pick (Daigle, Falloon, Chyzowski), is that good asset management ?

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06-17-2010, 09:41 PM
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on canadiens facebook page, they are all bashing price like if it was his fault

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06-17-2010, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
1) I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. So we can trade Subban for Brendan Smith because "he's panning out" and was drafted higher?

2) Don't agree again, sorry. They could of waited till the draft or they could have simply got a deal done in the next few days. But from all reports I've heard, Gauthier didn't give too many other teams a chance to chime in.

3) Again, not agreeing. Most people here wanted to keep both goalies. The salary cap would have allowed it. They were both RFA's. I don't think this would of lowered his value at all. Either way, we could of got Eller, IMO, whether they Blues thought Halak was staying or going anyway.
On his first point you're twisting what he's saying.

If you turn a 9th round selection into a 1st and 3rd round selection, that's a nice move. If you took your 9th round pick and said "hey, St Louis, give me your 1st and 3rd.", what do you think they'd say ?

The fact that Halak was drafted there and played in the NHL and played well is amazing.

You can't keep both goalies. You'll have the same problem, both will want to play. He needed to choose one and choose one now. Come draft tiime, the blues could have re-signed Mason, making them not really need Halak. Eller and Schultz are off the table. They we end up with less.

I would have wanted more, but let's just be thankful the habs at least addressed needs, instead of just getting crap.

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06-17-2010, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Patrick Traverse View Post
Ryan Getzlaf and Andrew Ladd - both from the Calgary Hitmen - Both won cups - Ian Shultz - 6'3" 208 scrappy 3rd liner could be the next calgary hitman to win a cup?

I also think this could be another sleeper add in the Habs get out of this trade, Ryan White, pegged to make the jump from Hamilton to the 4th line on the Habs soon was also a Calgary Hitman and (not 100%) was their leading scorer at one point. I think the two may have played together but not real sure.

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06-17-2010, 09:45 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Bosss View Post
on canadiens facebook page, they are all bashing price like if it was his fault
Don't worry about it, the majority of habs fans don't understand the fundamentals of hockey. How are those pious morons suppose to know who Lars Eller is ? He,s not in the NHL ? We've been ripped off!!!!11111 They're idiots.

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06-17-2010, 09:47 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
I'm starting to think Halak and or his agent just asked the club to trade him. Why else would they not even try to sign him? Makes no sense.

Oh Pascal, where were you in January when Walsh threw the ultimatum at the Habs? Play me more now or trade me. Remember, he did ask for a trade and now he has gotten it.

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06-17-2010, 09:47 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
On his first point you're twisting what he's saying.

If you turn a 9th round selection into a 1st and 3rd round selection, that's a nice move. If you took your 9th round pick and said "hey, St Louis, give me your 1st and 3rd.", what do you think they'd say ?

The fact that Halak was drafted there and played in the NHL and played well is amazing.

You can't keep both goalies. You'll have the same problem, both will want to play. He needed to choose one and choose one now. Come draft tiime, the blues could have re-signed Mason, making them not really need Halak. Eller and Schultz are off the table. They we end up with less.

I would have wanted more, but let's just be thankful the habs at least addressed needs, instead of just getting crap.
He's still saying something that, IMO, is not right. Fine, don't use Subban or Smith. Use Daigle and Robitaille (or something of that nature) after Daigle had one good season in the NHL.

I just think using draft positions is pretty poor as far as debating goes. Who cares where someone was drafted, so long as they prove they belong in the NHL?

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06-17-2010, 09:48 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
1) I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. So we can trade Subban for Brendan Smith because "he's panning out" and was drafted higher?

2) Don't agree again, sorry. They could of waited till the draft or they could have simply got a deal done in the next few days. But from all reports I've heard, Gauthier didn't give too many other teams a chance to chime in.

3) Again, not agreeing. Most people here wanted to keep both goalies. The salary cap would have allowed it. They were both RFA's. I don't think this would of lowered his value at all. Either way, we could of got Eller, IMO, whether they Blues thought Halak was staying or going anyway.
1. Subjective
2. Subjective
3. Subjective

If there ever was a time to get the most out of Halak's value, it was right now. Even if he had a good season next year, he would likely never have been capable of repeating what he did this year.

And if he did, really, would you really have been willing to deal him? No.

Would Price's value be higher if Halak outplayed him once again? No.

Good assets management is what Gauthier did today. Subjectivity means nothing. Objectivity tells me we got a 13th overall pick who, in his first year in North America, dominated his AHL club despite starting off slowly, being affected by mono. Objectivity also tells me we got a decent prospect who might become one day a very good bottom-6 player. Objectivity tells me both of our goalies were capable of being #1 goalies in this league, and that having one on the bench just ISN'T good assets management.

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06-17-2010, 09:48 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
1) I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. So we can trade Subban for Brendan Smith because "he's panning out" and was drafted higher?

2) Don't agree again, sorry. They could of waited till the draft or they could have simply got a deal done in the next few days. But from all reports I've heard, Gauthier didn't give too many other teams a chance to chime in.

3) Again, not agreeing. Most people here wanted to keep both goalies. The salary cap would have allowed it. They were both RFA's. I don't think this would of lowered his value at all. Either way, we could of got Eller, IMO, whether they Blues thought Halak was staying or going anyway.
Maybe asset management is the wrong wording. You have done something right if a 9th rounder has as much value as a 1st rounder, if that makes any sense. I think we should be proud that a guy like Halak fetched a guy like Eller. I don't see the problem in asset management, there was a surplus in goaltending and a lack of scoring. It's a smart trade. You got a guy who was supposed to be a nothing prospect for a guy who was supposed to be (and is turning out) very good.

Gauthier said that many teams called and lulled around while others were more serious. I think the fact that there are barely any teams interested and the Habs got a player like Eller is awesome. He said GMs are all aware of what's going on, everyone knew he was available. Do you think he just woke this morning and let two teams know? I'm sure there were a few deals the Habs were pondering and decided to go with this one. The talks have probably been going on since earlier this season.

The salary cap might have allowed it, but then you are weaker in another position and the team that made an unlikely miracle run makes no real progress. The chances of something like that happening again are really slim. His value was the highest it will ever be and Gauthier took advantage of it.

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06-17-2010, 09:49 PM
  #43
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I don't feel like what seems to majority of Hab fans about this trade. I'm not extatic about it sure, but I like what I've seen of Eller and he seems to fill a need down the middle (great combo of skill, strength and grit, plays defense too).

I'm not upset to see Halak go, simply because I was always confident Price had too much talent to fail. When he's on, he just looks like Brodeur in net. Key for him is to get his mental game in check. We got hints late in the season he was getting there.

Halak's a good goalie, but I feel we get the cheaper option in net (better cap situation) while not losing too much team strength (we still have solid goaltending ahead).

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06-17-2010, 09:49 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
On his first point you're twisting what he's saying.

If you turn a 9th round selection into a 1st and 3rd round selection, that's a nice move. If you took your 9th round pick and said "hey, St Louis, give me your 1st and 3rd.", what do you think they'd say ?

The fact that Halak was drafted there and played in the NHL and played well is amazing.

You can't keep both goalies. You'll have the same problem, both will want to play. He needed to choose one and choose one now. Come draft tiime, the blues could have re-signed Mason, making them not really need Halak. Eller and Schultz are off the table. They we end up with less.

I would have wanted more, but let's just be thankful the habs at least addressed needs, instead of just getting crap.
The value of assets is not based on where they were drafted but on what they did in their career after they were drafted.

Basically what he's/you're saying is that Halak wasn't supposed to be good so it's good asset management to trade him for anything that's considered better than a 9th round pick which is blatantly ignoring the progress the player has made after being drafted which is, after all, the most important thing.

EDIT: ignore this post, he corrected his earlier post, and I don't want to dwell on this needlessly.

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06-17-2010, 09:49 PM
  #45
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Lars Eller has the defensive prowess of Datsyuk and the toughness and play-making ability of Mike Richards. Eller will start the season for Montreal. I might get an Eller Canadiens jersey.

Ian Schultz reminds me of Byfuglien and not because he is biracial, but because he's a big boy, loves being in front of the opposing goalie and will throw down if he has to. I would not, however characterize him as an "enforcer". He's ready for AHL duty.

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06-17-2010, 09:50 PM
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Congrats Habs! People on the main board have been bashing the hell out of this thread, but in all honesty you guys came out on top. One of Halak or Price had to be moved, and it just so happens that Halak was a bit stronger and had a higher trade value. You guys traded a guy who wasn't going to re-sign anyways and ended up getting a top prospect (honestly, I wish he was a Leaf) who will probably jump right in to your top 6 next season, as well as a 20 year old coming out of a strong final season in junior.

As a Leafs fan, I know how it feels when other fans critisize any move your team makes, but you guys really got St. Louis on this one. Eller is going to be a stud for many years to come.

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06-17-2010, 09:51 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
1) I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. So we can trade Subban for Brendan Smith because "he's panning out" and was drafted higher?

2) Don't agree again, sorry. They could of waited till the draft or they could have simply got a deal done in the next few days. But from all reports I've heard, Gauthier didn't give too many other teams a chance to chime in.

3) Again, not agreeing. Most people here wanted to keep both goalies. The salary cap would have allowed it. They were both RFA's. I don't think this would of lowered his value at all. Either way, we could of got Eller, IMO, whether they Blues thought Halak was staying or going anyway.
That is bad comparison, as PK is a 2nd rounder and Smith was a 27th overall pick, making him a borderline 2nd rounder too.

In regards to the other answers. McKenzie had said that only St. Louis, San Jose, Tampa Bay and Philadelphia had inquired. McKenzie later corrected that saying Montreal sources said only San Jose and St. Louis inquired.

Kyperos stated on Sportsnet tonight the Blues were wanting Price, so for them to take Halak shows they were interested in Halak, but in Price more.

Tim Panaccio the Flyers beat writer said he talked to two Philadelphia scouts and they never had confidence in Halak to be a top #1 in the league, that was before the playoffs but still there were doubts and still are.

I agree if we would have signed Price it would have signalled a trade for Halak and would have driven the value down.

Gauthier didn't have people knocking down the door for Halak. He did for Price. When you have teams calling for your younger goalie who didn't play and didn't lead you to the conference finals it tells your management you have an asset that the league wants, so why trade it. Keep it for yourself and develop it and hope for the best.

This trade was the best we were going to get, the value is similar to the Lehtonen deal and to me is fair.

Good move on Gauthier's part.

I look forward to seeing Eller, and Schultz is a project but who knows?

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06-17-2010, 09:52 PM
  #48
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Could we make an offer sheet for Halak?
yes

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06-17-2010, 09:52 PM
  #49
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I'm starting to think Halak and or his agent just asked the club to trade him. Why else would they not even try to sign him? Makes no sense.
They chose tyo move forward with Price. Even if I prefered Halak, this is their decision, and this is perfectly logical.

Keeping both goalies just wasn't an option anyway. We got as much as we could for Halak.

The goalie market is hot this summer. St. Louis would have turned elsewhere and likely would have offered that same package for another goalie around the league. Rumours are that Minnesota was trying to get this same package by packaging Harding, but St. Louis refused each and every time.

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06-17-2010, 09:52 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
The value of assets is not based on where they were drafted but on what they did in their career after they were drafted.

Basically what you're saying is that Halak wasn't supposed to be good so it's good asset management to trade him for anything that's considered better than a 9th round pick which is blatantly ignoring the progress the player has made after being drafted which is, after all, the most important thing.
You base them on performance, but you've essentially dealt a 9th round pick for a 1st and 3rd.

You've taken a good asset, in Halak and acquired what could be a good asset in Eller and a bonus asset in Schultz.

When I first heard the deal, I was hoping it was a msitake and it was Ian Cole, but oh well. It's still solid. I never thought the habs would look the way of prospects.

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