HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Does the Horton trade set Carter's trade value?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-23-2010, 12:26 PM
  #1
El Emperor
Registered User
 
El Emperor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Woodstown, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,283
vCash: 500
Does the Horton trade set Carter's trade value?

First off, I will preface this post by saying I am in no way calling for the immediate trade of Jeff Carter. I am only posting this because I'm curious what everyone thinks.

With that being said, does the Nathan Horton trade now give the league a good idea of what Jeff Carter is worth?

Horton (GP/G/A/P)
07-08 -- 82/27/35/62
08-09 -- 67/22/23/45
09-10- - 65/20/37/57
(+9 accumulated through these years)

Carter (GP/G/A/P)
07-08 -- 82/29/24/53
08-09 -- 82/46/38/84
09-10 -- 74/33/28/61
(+31 accumulated through these years)

Both players were drafted high in 2003, both are the same age, and around the same physical build.

So can we assume by the stats above that Jeff Carter should have a better return than a 15th overall and mid-level defenseman? I know many will point out Horton's stats may be skewed by being in Florida, however Jeff Carter's stats may be skewed because he plays on a Flyers team that spreads scoring around. Can it be safe to say that any trade talks for Jeff Carter must include at least a top 10 pick?

El Emperor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 12:28 PM
  #2
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
For the record... FLA got hosed in that deal, IMO.

Wideman isn't very good.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 12:33 PM
  #3
El Emperor
Registered User
 
El Emperor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Woodstown, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
For the record... FLA got hosed in that deal, IMO.

Wideman isn't very good.
Agreed.

El Emperor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 12:37 PM
  #4
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,901
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
For the record... FLA got hosed in that deal, IMO.

Wideman isn't very good.
It was all about getting a malcontent out of the locker room. That in itself can be considered addition by subtraction. Tallon got a first out of the deal and he'll more than likely flip Wideman elsewhere. So, it's not that bad. He's going to end up with Gormley and probably Etem, so that's a pretty good haul.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 12:51 PM
  #5
BrindamoursNose
Registered User
 
BrindamoursNose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,792
vCash: 500
I don't think Dennis Wideman is bad at all. I think he had a bad year.

BrindamoursNose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 12:53 PM
  #6
ForsbergIsOdin
Registered User
 
ForsbergIsOdin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Asgaard
Country: Sweden
Posts: 8,391
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ForsbergIsOdin
Id say no, it doesnt set his value. Horton isnt a good 2way center who has scored 40 goals.

ForsbergIsOdin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 12:57 PM
  #7
PhilaFlyers
Registered User
 
PhilaFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 8,240
vCash: 300
Wideman's alright, but Florida still got **** on.

PhilaFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 01:12 PM
  #8
El Emperor
Registered User
 
El Emperor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Woodstown, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
Id say no, it doesnt set his value. Horton isnt a good 2way center who has scored 40 goals.
Which is why I would say it makes Carter's value even greater (that's why I pointed out the +/- for both players over the past 3 seasons).

My point is that we should get at least a top 10 along with an NHL ready player/goalie, possibly something else.

El Emperor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 01:17 PM
  #9
EasyMac
Registered User
 
EasyMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kingston
Country: Canada
Posts: 834
vCash: 500
I don't think it will impact his value too much (though I doubt Carter gets traded anyways). I mean, last year Carter had more goals then Horton had points. Horton's value is still relying on his potential to be a top liner, Carter has proven he can play at that level. Plus Horton apparently told Tallon he wanted out and he has had work ethic issues in the past (according to Panther fans prior to him being traded).

EasyMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 02:15 PM
  #10
Juicy Couturier*
CannonGoBoom
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philly Area
Posts: 4,910
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Juicy Couturier*
Carter has 40+ more points than Horton the last 2 seasons while playing a MUCH better defensive game. Horton is nowhere near the player Carter is. So no this doesn't effect Carters value anywhere but these boards where people on the main board value him at about the same as Horton just got in return but in all reality they don't know what they are talking about and don't sign off on trades in the NHL.

Juicy Couturier* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 02:26 PM
  #11
El Emperor
Registered User
 
El Emperor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Woodstown, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Carter has 40+ more points than Horton the last 2 seasons while playing a MUCH better defensive game. Horton is nowhere near the player Carter is. So no this doesn't effect Carters value anywhere but these boards where people on the main board value him at about the same as Horton just got in return but in all reality they don't know what they are talking about and don't sign off on trades in the NHL.
Did I phrase the question incorrectly cause it seems everyone thinks I was saying Carter should be worth exactly what Horton was worth? I was in no way implying that Carter gives back the same value Flordia received for Horton. I was actually implying that Carter should get much more.

El Emperor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 02:57 PM
  #12
flyguy
Sean Cubeturier
 
flyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seward, Alaska
Country: United States
Posts: 6,242
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to flyguy
The Kessel deal from last year set Carter's trade value IMO. The Flyers would need at the very least, two potential top 15 picks or equivalent value.

flyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 02:57 PM
  #13
Juicy Couturier*
CannonGoBoom
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philly Area
Posts: 4,910
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Juicy Couturier*
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan333 View Post
Did I phrase the question incorrectly cause it seems everyone thinks I was saying Carter should be worth exactly what Horton was worth? I was in no way implying that Carter gives back the same value Flordia received for Horton. I was actually implying that Carter should get much more.
I think the reason people are saying that is because the only time a player really sets the market for another player is when they are at a similar age, style of play, skill, and production. other than age and size they really dont have much to compare. If Bobby Ryan, Rick Nash or Corey Perry were traded I would think the market would be set for Carter but not Horton.

Juicy Couturier* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 02:59 PM
  #14
CTU2fan
Registered User
 
CTU2fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,135
vCash: 500
I get what you're saying. I think you take a look at what FLA got for Horton, and what Boston got last year for Kessel...I would put Carter's value somethere above Kessel, basically Carter>Kessel>Horton. Which also demonstrates how bad FLA got hosed as they got a mid-1st and a #4 D-man, while Boston got a top-5 and another 1st for an unsigned Phil Kessel.

Edit: I'm slow, flyguy beat me re: the Kessel comp.

CTU2fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 03:00 PM
  #15
El Emperor
Registered User
 
El Emperor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Woodstown, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
The Kessel deal from last year set Carter's trade value IMO. The Flyers would need at the very least, two potential top 15 picks or equivalent value.
Very True!

I just took this deal as a benchmark to work from cause it's very fresh. However, I would be surprised if any team would give up two first rounders seeing how well it worked out for Toronto.

I mean honestly, Boston makes it to the second round of the playoffs, 1 win away from the conference finals and manages to get the 2nd pick in the draft?! Not only that but gets to rub it in Toronto's face 6 times per year.

WOW!

El Emperor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 03:02 PM
  #16
flyguy
Sean Cubeturier
 
flyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seward, Alaska
Country: United States
Posts: 6,242
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to flyguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
I get what you're saying. I think you take a look at what FLA got for Horton, and what Boston got last year for Kessel...I would put Carter's value somethere above Kessel, basically Carter>Kessel>Horton. Which also demonstrates how bad FLA got hosed as they got a mid-1st and a #4 D-man, while Boston got a top-5 and another 1st for an unsigned Phil Kessel.
Wideman is better than a #4 dman. He had a bad year, yes, but he's still a borderline top pairing guy. 2 seasons ago he put up 50 points. He also had a better playoffs than regular season.

And at the time, they didn't know Toronto's first would be a top 5 for Kessel. But as I said before, both picks were easily potentially top 15s, which is what I would want at least for Carter.

flyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 03:27 PM
  #17
thomaszwei
 
thomaszwei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Summit Station, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 65
vCash: 500
No matter how good Wideman might be...Florida still got jacked at gunpoint.

Like someone mentioned in the thread earlier, it was all about moving Horton out of Florida, where he apparently didn't want to be, so I can't imagine that his trade value was really high.

I wonder who Florida will take with the #3 pick in the draft? They've got to be hoping that someone's stupid enough to pass on Hall/Seguin.

thomaszwei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 03:33 PM
  #18
Start Leighton*
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 3,099
vCash: 500


Florida completely robbed the Bruins blind premiere shootout player and a 1st round pick.

Start Leighton* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 04:26 PM
  #19
Pantokrator
Who's the clown?
 
Pantokrator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Semmes, Alabama
Country: Guatemala
Posts: 4,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by xchrisx159 View Post


Florida completely robbed the Bruins blind premiere shootout player and a 1st round pick.
Wow, someone who is as bad as me at shootouts...didn't know that was possible.

Pantokrator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 04:58 PM
  #20
KimiFerrari
Messi Is God
 
KimiFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Argentina
Posts: 3,818
vCash: 500
Nathan Horton is UFA in 2013-14, so I think it is a bit different from that stand point as well. A team that takes Carter, also has a great opportunity to lock him up for a long time next year. Carter's RFA status adds value because that team can still get a great return for his rights/OS.

The Horton trade is probably a baseline deal, which any GM would have to work up from if they wanted Carter.

KimiFerrari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 05:01 PM
  #21
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 4,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan333 View Post
Agreed.
Ditto

Hockeypete49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 05:12 PM
  #22
BWAVgal
Clever comment here
 
BWAVgal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Norristown, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,358
vCash: 176
It doesn't matter, Carter isn't going anywhere. Don't know how we are going to get a decent goalie though by not trading him.

BWAVgal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 07:38 PM
  #23
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,551
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Meh.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 08:09 PM
  #24
MCAKES
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAVgal View Post
It doesn't matter, Carter isn't going anywhere. Don't know how we are going to get a decent goalie though by not trading him.
open market?

MCAKES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 09:08 PM
  #25
mikedifr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 8,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan333 View Post
Did I phrase the question incorrectly cause it seems everyone thinks I was saying Carter should be worth exactly what Horton was worth? I was in no way implying that Carter gives back the same value Flordia received for Horton. I was actually implying that Carter should get much more.
No. I understood what you meant and agree in theory, however, I am sure you know things arent that simple when we talk about trades in the NHL. Should Carter get more than that? Most likely....but doesnt mean it would happen, if he is traded.

mikedifr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.