I don't care if we roll out the best 6 D-men in the league. I'll be furious if we roll into the season with Leighton and Boucher.
Agreed. And, as Jester said, great D aren't going to prevent a mediocre goalie from giving up a soft goal.
I'm fine with keeping Leighton IF BOUCHER IS GONE. But we need to have an upgrade in place with whom Leighton can compete. If this really is his coming out party, he's going to have to work for it and prove his worth.
I, personally, think we have seen his best...and it's not good enough.
Hamhuis, 27, had five goals and 19 assists for Nashville last season. He is scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent on July 1. A first-round pick of the Predators in 2001, Hamhuis has recorded 32 goals and 129 assists in 483 career games.
"Dan Hamhuis is a good all-around defenseman,” Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren said in a statement. “He has been in Nashville since his draft year. He's a guy who can play lots of minutes and he can play in a lot of different situations, from power play to killing penalties. He is another athlete we'd like to add to our team to continue to improve our defense."
Among players drafted in 2001, only Ilya Kovalchuk (621) has played in more career games than Hamhuis. He has only missed nine games since debuting during the 2003-04 season.
"Obviously it is sad to leave the Predators. I spent some great years with them and it is great organization to be a part of,” Hamhuis said. “I've heard nothing but great things about the city of Philadelphia and the Flyers. I think Philly has an unbelievable defensive core. To join a core like that makes the Flyers one of the tougher ones in the league. To play against the teams from the East, the conference has a lot of great forwards, and watching the playoffs, having a great defense will get you a long way.”
Parent, originally acquired from the Predators in the Peter Forsberg trade, managed only one goal and six assists in 102 games for the Flyers over parts of the last four seasons.
“I think Ryan is a good kid,” said Holmgren. “He is an extremely hard worker. We certainly thank him for his services and his time here. He has a lot of upside as a player and he is going back to an organization that obviously knows him because they drafted him."
Does anyone have a scouting report for those of us who don't have the opportunity to watch Hamhuis play. Where would he rank up with our current defensemen?
Why? If it's cuz of the cap money, I think there's a fairly obvious secondary trade to be made following Hamhuis being signed... ship one of Carle/Coburn for picks or other parts that we might need (for example, if they nab Schneider from Vancouver...).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721
Better than Carle, and on par with the Coburn we saw in the finals but much better than the Coburn we saw for most of the year. Not as good as Timonen and Pronger. One of the better #3s in the NHL if we sign him. Here's a little thing about his strengths/weaknesses:
I think he's a little better offensively than that gives him credit for. He played for an offensively challenged team in Nashville and I think would be a consistent 35-40 point defenseman here if he signs.
I think that might be a bit aggressive. He's not really a PP player, and assuming it's Coburn that moves and not Carle, I doubt he'll get a lot of time on the PP here (I would like them to go back to having Richards on the point of the PP personally).
I think a good comparison for him is that he's what we hope(d) Ryan Parent would develop into defensively, with better puck skills. So, a competent guy moving forward, but probably going to hover in the 25-25 range as far as points.
1) After the seasons Carle and Coburn had, can anyone really be thinking Holmgren WANTS to trade Carle over Coburn. Carle >>>> Coburn for 95% of the season and Carle = Coburn for the other 5%. Not to mention Homer has expressed how pleased he was with Carle and how dissapointed at times he was with Coburn.
2) Coburn played on the 3rd pairing most of this past season, it is not outside the realm of possibility that if he is given a 2M/year contract he will be relegated to that role again and we will keep everyone.
3) Our defense isn't going to be THAT overpaid, Pronger comes down to 4.9 and Hamhuis will probably get 4, if Coburn gets 2 and Bartulis at .6 is still there then I would argue while it is alot of money we will not be blowing other team's out of the water (without doing too much research I can think of the Red Wings as a team with a comparable paycheck to their backline, and that seems to work well for them!)
4) We thought we had the best top 4 in the league before... now we KNOW IT!
5) It is a total buyer's market for goalies and we just solidified our already incredibly solid defense... who else can see Turco coming here for like 2.5 for a near guaranteed Vezina type season playing behind our monster defense?
You gotta figure that all three of Pronger, Timonen, and Hamhuis could easily split 20 minutes a night between the three. That way all three are fresh at all time and we're always rolling out an elite defender (if you're willing to classify Hamhuis as elite...or at least top-notch).
that sounds all good and fine... except that if we're rolling all 3 defensive pairings at around 20 minutes per game, i dont think i want oskars bartulis or danny syvret to be a part of that equation...
1) After the seasons Carle and Coburn had, can anyone really be thinking Holmgren WANTS to trade Carle over Coburn. Carle >>>> Coburn for 95% of the season and Carle = Coburn for the other 5%. Not to mention Homer has expressed how pleased he was with Carle and how dissapointed at times he was with Coburn.
2) Coburn played on the 3rd pairing most of this past season, it is not outside the realm of possibility that if he is given a 2M/year contract he will be relegated to that role again and we will keep everyone.
3) Our defense isn't going to be THAT overpaid, Pronger comes down to 4.9 and Hamhuis will probably get 4, if Coburn gets 2 and Bartulis at .6 is still there then I would argue while it is alot of money we will not be blowing other team's out of the water (without doing too much research I can think of the Red Wings as a team with a comparable paycheck to their backline, and that seems to work well for them!)
4) We thought we had the best top 4 in the league before... now we KNOW IT!
5) It is a total buyer's market for goalies and we just solidified our already incredibly solid defense... who else can see Turco coming here for like 2.5 for a near guaranteed Vezina type season playing behind our monster defense?
6) I smell Lord Stanley!!!!
if hamhuis gets 4 mil a season, i will shave my ass a glue it under my nose.
does homer have someone dear to the nashville gm as hostage?
this seems like a steal. imo, parent will always be plagued by injuries. my assumption during the playoffs is that he was injured yet again, but that it was being kept quiet. or then again, i could be completely wrong.
I don't understand why half of you say that Coburn or Carle are gone? Why not trade Carter, who has a lot of "value", but no real value when it comes to big games. Trade Carter to Montreal for Price and a pick. We already have 4 centers. Carter was completely lost in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Coburn and Carle played like men. Defense wins championships, just ask the Devils of past years. We roll five D men, and when it comes time for the playoffs, you don't have to worry about over using Pronger and Timonen. If it were up to me, I keep all five of them and get rid of Carter.
I don't understand why half of you say that Coburn or Carle are gone? Why not trade Carter, who has a lot of "value", but no real value when it comes to big games. Trade Carter to Montreal for Price and a pick. We already have 4 centers. Carter was completely lost in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Coburn and Carle played like men. Defense wins championships, just ask the Devils of past years. We roll five D men, and when it comes time for the playoffs, you don't have to worry about over using Pronger and Timonen. If it were up to me, I keep all five of them and get rid of Carter.
I don't understand why half of you say that Coburn or Carle are gone? Why not trade Carter, who has a lot of "value", but no real value when it comes to big games. Trade Carter to Montreal for Price and a pick. We already have 4 centers. Carter was completely lost in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Coburn and Carle played like men. Defense wins championships, just ask the Devils of past years. We roll five D men, and when it comes time for the playoffs, you don't have to worry about over using Pronger and Timonen. If it were up to me, I keep all five of them and get rid of Carter.
Gonna go out on a limb here and say Price isn't going anywhere...
I don't understand why half of you say that Coburn or Carle are gone? Why not trade Carter, who has a lot of "value", but no real value when it comes to big games. Trade Carter to Montreal for Price and a pick. We already have 4 centers. Carter was completely lost in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Coburn and Carle played like men. Defense wins championships, just ask the Devils of past years. We roll five D men, and when it comes time for the playoffs, you don't have to worry about over using Pronger and Timonen. If it were up to me, I keep all five of them and get rid of Carter.
Because he's our only centre over 6 feet tall? And he didn't play centre during the playoffs, he played wing and he's not a good winger. Briere, Giroux and Richards aren't all that much better but he Briere and Giroux played wing for most of the regular season, Carter only played centre.
You gotta figure that all three of Pronger, Timonen, and Hamhuis could easily split 20 minutes a night between the three. That way all three are fresh at all time and we're always rolling out an elite defender (if you're willing to classify Hamhuis as elite...or at least top-notch).
See, I would keep the uber pairing setup and not so much roll 3... I think it's Coburn that is on the way out if they make the logical move, and that means you keep Carle and Pronger together, and then you get a 2nd pairing of Hamhuis and Timonen... which is absurd. Perhaps more importantly, such a pairing lets Timonen assert himself offensively a LOT more than he has been able to here given the questionable partners he's had.
We'll see what happens with the third pairing as far as personnel, but then you can let them grow in the first 40 games and see what you got (if you keep the top two pairings to 20-25 minutes a night you can give those guys 10-15).
Then you get to the playoffs and now we really have something... even if we don't love our third pairing and only really play 5 guys or whatever again, now you have Hamhuis to help with the spot duty, which is a huge plus defensively over having Carle/Coburn out there trying to babysit.
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Originally Posted by Quacker912
I ****ing asked how much he'd be asking for. No need to be a **** sucker.
We have about 4.5 million to spend after signing our RFAs. All we need now is a goalie. So again I'll ask, how much do you guys think he'll want?
No, you asked why we couldn't just carry 'em all and have a stacked D... which is what I was responding to. No idea how much he wants specifically, but it isn't going to be "cheap," he's a good D and an UFA, and we have limited cap space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez
1) After the seasons Carle and Coburn had, can anyone really be thinking Holmgren WANTS to trade Carle over Coburn. Carle >>>> Coburn for 95% of the season and Carle = Coburn for the other 5%. Not to mention Homer has expressed how pleased he was with Carle and how dissapointed at times he was with Coburn.
2) Coburn played on the 3rd pairing most of this past season, it is not outside the realm of possibility that if he is given a 2M/year contract he will be relegated to that role again and we will keep everyone.
3) Our defense isn't going to be THAT overpaid, Pronger comes down to 4.9 and Hamhuis will probably get 4, if Coburn gets 2 and Bartulis at .6 is still there then I would argue while it is alot of money we will not be blowing other team's out of the water (without doing too much research I can think of the Red Wings as a team with a comparable paycheck to their backline, and that seems to work well for them!)
4) We thought we had the best top 4 in the league before... now we KNOW IT!
5) It is a total buyer's market for goalies and we just solidified our already incredibly solid defense... who else can see Turco coming here for like 2.5 for a near guaranteed Vezina type season playing behind our monster defense?
6) I smell Lord Stanley!!!!
1) I can see wanting Coburn over Carle. Carle was really aided by having Pronger on his side, which can't be forgotten. However, I also don't think Coburn deserves a significant raise and if he wants one and Holmgren stays with his historic fear of arbitration, I could see Coburn getting moved.
2) Coburn played with Timonen for "most" of the season, and had spots on the 3rd pairing.
3) We had roughly 8M in cap space, and Hamhuis will likely chew 3+M off of what we would have had with Parent around. If Coburn gets a decent raise... then you're running into problems if you really want to address the situation in goal (which needs to be addressed).
4) Wait and see. Certainly a killer top 3 guys.
5) I agree, we won't have to spend to the hilt on goaltending in this market, but it will be a cap issue (I think) if they try to keep everyone they currently have.
6) Maybe... they certainly have the D to control play and really apply pressure using Lavy's aggressive pinching.
Because he's our only centre over 6 feet tall? And he didn't play centre during the playoffs, he played wing and he's not a good winger. Briere, Giroux and Richards aren't all that much better but he Briere and Giroux played wing for most of the regular season, Carter only played centre.
