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06-20-2010, 06:38 PM
  #76
AwesomePanthers
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How can anyone hope for Nathan to get moved? Really, he would become a beast, 40 goalscorer, maybe more. He is still young and on a great contract. And if people have been watching games the last year, you should know that Hortons working habits have changed dramatically. Almost a PPG player on a team that was ruined by injuries, and ended the season third lowest. He had his best season (PPG), he is a grown and changed man. Trading our best forward doesn't help us at all, if we're not rebuilding from the bottom again.

If he is traded (very likely) he should fetch a great return. The next move should then be to add some good offensive players via FA. Atleast give it a try.

I'm on the stay Nate boat here, he will only become better. Trading him will be a huge mistake.

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06-20-2010, 06:43 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
I'm starting to get sick of the character complaint. A lot of players are not the Toews or Parise or Richards or Crosby. Some don't have it in them to be that leader of the guy who improves himself through a lot of hard work. Horton, as it stands is an underachieving offensive talent who happens to be our best offensive player. Trading him for the sake of trading him because he lacks character is shortsighted and going to hurt the franchise. I understand why we would trade him but if we are not getting back the best piece in the deal it is going to be hard to believe we are better off short of an obvious overpayment.
I don't disagree with this because I do believe talent >>> character, but my response was just for the people who have basically been saying that Horton isn't an Olli Jokinen/he has no character issues.

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06-20-2010, 06:47 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
I don't disagree with this because I do believe talent >>> character, but my response was just for the people who have basically been saying that Horton isn't an Olli Jokinen/he has no character issues.
I wouldn't compair Horton and Jokinen at all. Two very different characters imo.

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06-20-2010, 06:49 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
I wouldn't compair Horton and Jokinen at all. Two very different characters imo.
Both have character issues. That's my point. Tallon is building with character; whether people like it or not, that's what he's doing. As I said earlier though, he'd be stupid to trade Horton + the #3 pick. I don't see how we'd win such a trade.

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06-20-2010, 06:53 PM
  #80
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Part of the problem is the Panthers can't go out and sign their prototypical #1 center for 5-7 million a year, in part due to budget and the other part due to the lack of availability of that type of player.

So that leaves us with Horton, who is arguably our biggest trading chip (I know we have guys like Frolik/Kuli/Markstrom, but I'm omitting them for the sake of this argument) and can bring back that type of player. So the question is, if you can't surround Horton with the type of player that can elevate his play, then you trade him for that type of guy and let Frolik & Booth be your good young scorers. I'm concerned at how Tallon plans to replace the points Horton brings, but I am also assuming he's got a plan.

If it were easy to just sign a #1 center, I'm sure that's the route Tallon would go. But then again maybe Tallon figures Horton needs a change of scenery after all the years of losing & the Panthers can address a major need by trading him. In Tallon, I'll trust...for now!

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06-20-2010, 06:56 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Both have character issues. That's my point. Tallon is building with character; whether people like it or not, that's what he's doing. As I said earlier though, he'd be stupid to trade Horton + the #3 pick. I don't see how we'd win such a trade.
Character "issues" in two very different ways yes. Depends on your definition of the word character. And after what I saw this year, I wouldn't say Hortons character was bad, or atleast not close to trading away bad.

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06-20-2010, 07:34 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
Character "issues" in two very different ways yes. Depends on your definition of the word character. And after what I saw this year, I wouldn't say Hortons character was bad, or atleast not close to trading away bad.
It's the same old summer story down here. Changes need to be made. Big trade on draft day. A Horton trade is just the product of an accumulation of years and years of failure. I have a feeling that tallon is pulling hard for boston's 2nd overall. But, i just don't think boston will budge unless we include markstrom, kulikov, etc. in the offer.

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06-20-2010, 07:34 PM
  #83
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Nate's been a chronically lazy player who started the year strong and fizzled out, until last season. I mostly enjoyed his play last season, but yes, I do have reasons MORE than his laziness not to like him. I'll keep those to myself.

I don't have a "hatred" for him, I just don't think he'll be the same next season. I don't trust him at all. As I said, his value is at an all time high, get what we can. There's a reason Tallon is looking to move him.

yes, I fully believe he has to go. Much as I feel several of the players need to move on. Could be, Nate's said he just wants to move on. Much as Tallon will look to get rid of a lot of the players who don't want to be here.

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06-20-2010, 07:37 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Nate's been a chronically lazy player who started the year strong and fizzled out, until last season. I mostly enjoyed his play last season, but yes, I do have reasons MORE than his laziness not to like him. I'll keep those to myself.

I don't have a "hatred" for him, I just don't think he'll be the same next season. I don't trust him at all. As I said, his value is at an all time high, get what we can. There's a reason Tallon is looking to move him.

yes, I fully believe he has to go. Much as I feel several of the players need to move on. Could be, Nate's said he just wants to move on. Much as Tallon will look to get rid of a lot of the players who don't want to be here.
Too bad he broke his leg or his statistics could have been that much more alluring..

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06-20-2010, 07:42 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Hip to be Square View Post
Too bad he broke his leg or his statistics could have been that much more alluring..
Indeed.

And by saying, "get what we can," I don't for a second mean we should trade him for just whatever.

I like the names being thrown as coming back for Nate. Wheeler has me concerned, but he's a huge kid who's coming off of a sophomore year. I just trust Tallon, and again, yes, I do think he needs to be moved.

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06-20-2010, 08:05 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Indeed.

And by saying, "get what we can," I don't for a second mean we should trade him for just whatever.

I like the names being thrown as coming back for Nate. Wheeler has me concerned, but he's a huge kid who's coming off of a sophomore year. I just trust Tallon, and again, yes, I do think he needs to be moved.
I just hope we are pleasantly surprised by what comes in return for Nate and what it does to allow for further aquisitions before the start of the season.

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06-20-2010, 09:05 PM
  #87
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update

TSNBobMcKenzie

BTW, nothing imminent on Horton with BOS as in tonight. Stand down. Going to be a big week for potetial wheeling and dealing. 41 minutes ago via web

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06-20-2010, 11:07 PM
  #88
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I don't think Horton should be traded.

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06-21-2010, 04:31 AM
  #89
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well to all the people that dont understand this whole character argument.

lets say we have a team full of booths and a team full of hortons. which team would you choose? which team do you think will give 100% the whole time, never take a shift off and sacrifice their own lives and safety for the team? the hortons?

you dont want a team full of the lazy, relaxed horton mentality. its not going to get you anywhere. and then lets say we have a team with 15 booths and 5 hortons, and the hortons still get more icetime than the booths because they have more talent, how do you think the team chemistry would be in that team?

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06-21-2010, 05:48 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by whoisournextbure View Post
well to all the people that dont understand this whole character argument.

lets say we have a team full of booths and a team full of hortons. which team would you choose? which team do you think will give 100% the whole time, never take a shift off and sacrifice their own lives and safety for the team? the hortons?

you dont want a team full of the lazy, relaxed horton mentality. its not going to get you anywhere. and then lets say we have a team with 15 booths and 5 hortons, and the hortons still get more icetime than the booths because they have more talent, how do you think the team chemistry would be in that team?
AMEN

But I still guess that just a team of Booths isn't the best either. You still need some skill in your team, but it can't harm your chemistry. If you have some skilled enough players they simply don't need to work that hard to be as good as he Booths. For example I would take Malkin, Kovalchuck etc. before Booth on my team any given day. In this case however, Horton is simply not skilled enough to make up for the lack of character. Therefore I would take Booths over Hortons.

-L-

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06-21-2010, 06:15 AM
  #91
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1000% sure a Panthers trade happens today because I will not have time to be on the net today maybe not even tomorrow... Moving... Panthers always make a move when I'm 24 hours without internet access

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06-21-2010, 06:18 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by whoisournextbure View Post
well to all the people that dont understand this whole character argument.

lets say we have a team full of booths and a team full of hortons. which team would you choose? which team do you think will give 100% the whole time, never take a shift off and sacrifice their own lives and safety for the team? the hortons?

you dont want a team full of the lazy, relaxed horton mentality. its not going to get you anywhere. and then lets say we have a team with 15 booths and 5 hortons, and the hortons still get more icetime than the booths because they have more talent, how do you think the team chemistry would be in that team?
I see your point, but the skill level must be their too. I believe more in a balance of character and skill. If there were more Hortons on this team, the team would be much better, and just by that they would be more motivated (playing for a playoff-team/contender).

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06-21-2010, 06:48 AM
  #93
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1000% sure a Panthers trade happens today because I will not have time to be on the net today maybe not even tomorrow... Moving... Panthers always make a move when I'm 24 hours without internet access
You should have twitter updates sent to your phone then. That's what I do.

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06-21-2010, 08:07 AM
  #94
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TSNBobMcKenzie

BTW, nothing imminent on Horton with BOS as in tonight. Stand down. Going to be a big week for potetial wheeling and dealing. 41 minutes ago via web
Real_ESPNLeBrun

Also spoke with Dale Tallon a few minutes ago who said he hopes to be ``very busy'' this week. Hold on to your seats hockey fans !

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06-21-2010, 08:09 AM
  #95
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Real_ESPNLeBrun

Also spoke with Dale Tallon a few minutes ago who said he hopes to be ``very busy'' this week. Hold on to your seats hockey fans !



Jesus, am I excited for the upcoming days or what!!!!!

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06-21-2010, 08:56 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by MickOlax View Post
AMEN

But I still guess that just a team of Booths isn't the best either. You still need some skill in your team, but it can't harm your chemistry. If you have some skilled enough players they simply don't need to work that hard to be as good as he Booths. For example I would take Malkin, Kovalchuck etc. before Booth on my team any given day. In this case however, Horton is simply not skilled enough to make up for the lack of character. Therefore I would take Booths over Hortons.

-L-
Booth is actually quite a bit more skilled than a lot of us give him credit for. But the fact he's really passionate about hockey and gives every game his all is what really makes him stand out so his skill kind of takes a back seat.

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06-21-2010, 08:59 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by whoisournextbure View Post
well to all the people that dont understand this whole character argument.

lets say we have a team full of booths and a team full of hortons. which team would you choose? which team do you think will give 100% the whole time, never take a shift off and sacrifice their own lives and safety for the team? the hortons?

you dont want a team full of the lazy, relaxed horton mentality. its not going to get you anywhere. and then lets say we have a team with 15 booths and 5 hortons, and the hortons still get more icetime than the booths because they have more talent, how do you think the team chemistry would be in that team?
Depends - are we talking the most recent action we've seen from Horton, or that of previous seasons? I'd definitely take a whole team of Hortons from this past season over a team of Booths. Horton was playing harder, and it showed in the stats, which would have exceeded Booth's by a mile had both stayed healthy this season. Horton was on pace to eclipse 70 points for the first time had he stayed healthy, whereas Booth may well have come off his numbers from the prior season as he seemed snake-bit early in the season - indeed, if I recall he'd finally broken a minor goalless slump in that game where Richards levelled him and put him out for the next three or four months.

Prior seasons, though - no...definitely a team of Booths.

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06-21-2010, 09:09 AM
  #98
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Depends - are we talking the most recent action we've seen from Horton, or that of previous seasons? I'd definitely take a whole team of Hortons from this past season over a team of Booths. Horton was playing harder, and it showed in the stats, which would have exceeded Booth's by a mile had both stayed healthy this season. Horton was on pace to eclipse 70 points for the first time had he stayed healthy, whereas Booth may well have come off his numbers from the prior season as he seemed snake-bit early in the season - indeed, if I recall he'd finally broken a minor goalless slump in that game where Richards levelled him and put him out for the next three or four months.

Prior seasons, though - no...definitely a team of Booths.
im talking about as a complete player... off course if there was no lack of determination and competetiveness in horton i would have picked a team full of hortons too, but he has been here for 6 season now, and out of those 6 seasons us fans have only been happy about his play on one occasion..
booth didnt have a chance to prove himself worthy of his contract this year due to his injuries, but he is a fan favorite for a reason no? he plays every shift as if its his last, and he never stops fighting when he is playing. consistency, my friend.
thats how he won my heart, and thats what makes me confident in picking team booth over team horton any day of the week

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06-21-2010, 09:26 AM
  #99
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trading hoton would be a nightmare unless we got a great return. doubtful. trading him to move up one spot without other pieces coming back is also a terrible return. maybe horton requested a trade. he is our best player and has been playing for a sub par team his whole career. he must be frustrated at the talent level here and wants to play for a contender. even on this horrible team he has done well and showed a glimpse of what he can do. unless he doesn't want to be here anymore, i think it's a seriosly bad idea to trade him. even if he doesn't want to be here i wouldn't trade him, i would surround him with some talent for a change which would help re-motivate him. the guy is a talent. WE NEED TALENT!!!!!!! not to mention an absolutely excellent contract!!!!!
p.s. a whole team of boothes wouldn't be so good. yeah, he's got heart and soul, but doesn't keep his head up and very well may be one hit away from ending his career, unfortunately.

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06-21-2010, 09:30 AM
  #100
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trading hoton would be a nightmare unless we got a great return. doubtful. trading him to move up one spot without other pieces coming back is also a terrible return. maybe horton requested a trade. he is our best player and has been playing for a sub par team his whole career. he must be frustrated at the talent level here and wants to play for a contender. even on this horrible team he has done well and showed a glimpse of what he can do. unless he doesn't want to be here anymore, i think it's a seriosly bad idea to trade him. even if he doesn't want to be here i wouldn't trade him, i would surround him with some talent for a change which would help re-motivate him. the guy is a talent. WE NEED TALENT!!!!!!! not to mention an absolutely excellent contract!!!!!
If we could somehow get the #2 pick in a deal with Horton, I'd be dancing all night long. That wouldn't be a bad trade at all.

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