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Old
06-20-2010, 10:45 AM
  #1
HardHitt3n
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Solid D corp

The acquisition of Dan Hamhuis to the Flyers' defense corps gives the Flyers the best 1-to-5 group that I ever remember the team assembling. From what I understand, Hamhuis' addition will not affect the club's efforts to resign restricted free agent Braydon Coburn (who made $1.3 million last season), nor will the club actively shop Matt Carle (who has two seasons left at a $3.4 million cap hit).

The team wants to be as stacked as possible on the blueline, in order to relieve some regular season minutes from Chris Pronger and Kimmo Timonen, be better able to withstand injuries, and provide head coach Peter Laviolette more options when he needs to juggle defense pairings.

The number six defenseman, by necessity, will be a low-salaried youngster. Oskars Bartulis has the inside track but will have competition at training camp. It remains to be seen if any among Kevin Marshall (who would carry an $875,000 cap hit on the NHL end of his entry-level contract), Joonas Lehtivuori ($850,000), Denis Bodrov, Marc-Andre Bourdon or Erik Gustafsson are ready or able to push Bartulis. The club may not carry a seventh defenseman to start the season. Danny Syvret, a restricted free agent, made a prorated $575,000 last season during his time with the big club. Bartulis will make $600,000 for the next three seasons after signing a long-term contract during last season.

Mike Rathje ($3.5 million) finally comes off the Flyers' salary cap this summer, but something still has to give salary-cap wise because his in-season cap space has been covered by the LTIR allowances. In light of the club's need to acquire a starting goaltender this offseason, is that the club is going to have to shed a big salary up front if it keeps its 1-4 from last season intact and subtracts cap space by resigning and retaining Coburn.



http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...20-10/45/28883


the team is gonna keep all 5 guys and have oscar fight the last spot out with bourdon and marshall

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Old
06-20-2010, 01:38 PM
  #2
SolidSnakeUS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardHitt3n View Post
The acquisition of Dan Hamhuis to the Flyers' defense corps gives the Flyers the best 1-to-5 group that I ever remember the team assembling. From what I understand, Hamhuis' addition will not affect the club's efforts to resign restricted free agent Braydon Coburn (who made $1.3 million last season), nor will the club actively shop Matt Carle (who has two seasons left at a $3.4 million cap hit).

The team wants to be as stacked as possible on the blueline, in order to relieve some regular season minutes from Chris Pronger and Kimmo Timonen, be better able to withstand injuries, and provide head coach Peter Laviolette more options when he needs to juggle defense pairings.

The number six defenseman, by necessity, will be a low-salaried youngster. Oskars Bartulis has the inside track but will have competition at training camp. It remains to be seen if any among Kevin Marshall (who would carry an $875,000 cap hit on the NHL end of his entry-level contract), Joonas Lehtivuori ($850,000), Denis Bodrov, Marc-Andre Bourdon or Erik Gustafsson are ready or able to push Bartulis. The club may not carry a seventh defenseman to start the season. Danny Syvret, a restricted free agent, made a prorated $575,000 last season during his time with the big club. Bartulis will make $600,000 for the next three seasons after signing a long-term contract during last season.

Mike Rathje ($3.5 million) finally comes off the Flyers' salary cap this summer, but something still has to give salary-cap wise because his in-season cap space has been covered by the LTIR allowances. In light of the club's need to acquire a starting goaltender this offseason, is that the club is going to have to shed a big salary up front if it keeps its 1-4 from last season intact and subtracts cap space by resigning and retaining Coburn.



http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...20-10/45/28883


the team is gonna keep all 5 guys and have oscar fight the last spot out with bourdon and marshall
I think Carle should be traded for some draft picks or prospects and I think probably the closest we have from the AHL to playing in the NHL for our #6 would probably be Joonas (I can't spell his last name).

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Old
06-20-2010, 02:18 PM
  #3
BillyShoe1721
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I have a bad feeling this means Michael Leighton, which is a problem.

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Old
06-20-2010, 02:23 PM
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I have a bad feeling this means Michael Leighton, which is a problem.
I'm worried about this as well.

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Old
06-20-2010, 02:47 PM
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decadentia
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We honestly need a goalie, regardless of how great our D-core is.

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Old
06-20-2010, 03:46 PM
  #6
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If Flyers will not move Carle I'll take Biron for 1M a year.

I am not a big fan but I can tolerate Biron.

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Old
06-20-2010, 03:49 PM
  #7
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Carle or Coburn for Schneider?

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06-20-2010, 04:18 PM
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decadentia
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Originally Posted by CrossCheck View Post
Carle or Coburn for Schneider?
Halak who is a legit starter just got less than that, you best be adding.

I loved the Halak trade however, it helps people around the boards realize goalies rarely net as much as everyone hypes.

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Old
06-20-2010, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Halak who is a legit starter just got less than that, you best be adding.

I loved the Halak trade however, it helps people around the boards realize goalies rarely net as much as everyone hypes.
Except that Halak was an unsigned RFA looking for a raise while Schneider is locked up for the next 2 seasons at under 1 million. But still I agree, people dont understand the value of a goalie is never as high as they think. All these Vokoun for Carter proposals are ridiculous.

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Old
06-20-2010, 05:50 PM
  #10
sedinfan3322
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the halak trade is not how you should be looking to measure goalies' worth in the NHL. there are many reasons why that trade is so bad:
1. halak came off a crazy playoffs, meaning he'll get mucho $$$
2. he'll likely sign a 2 year deal, then become an UFA commanding even more $$$
3. MTL gm's seem to be real brain morons!

value is determined by teams needs, and halak can't fit into many teams plans with the points i just made.
corey schneider on the other hand is making 0.9M the next 2 seasons, is one of the top goalies not in the NHL, and is an RFA when his contract expires in 2 seasons.
not saying schneider is better goalie in any sense, but i could argue he can fit into a teams payroll structure and a teams future plans much better than halak, thus making his trade value much different and not fairly comparable.

here's my philly vancouver proposal:
schneider (0.9)
raymond (rfa ~3)
bieksa (3.75)
schroeder (NA/prospect)
2010 1st (NA) (total 7.65)

for

carter (5)
coburn (rfa ~3) (total 8)

flyers save a little $$$ while filling an extra roster spot as well. raymond is a solid young speedster with 30+ goal potential (25 last year). you all know about schneider. bieksa would make so much sense in the eastern conference, especially the flyers. and schroeder is a solid prospect with top 6 potential.
by my calculations u could sign hamhuis (~4M) and ur payroll would be 55.9M (not bad)!
any interest? ideas? additions/subtractions?

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Old
06-20-2010, 05:55 PM
  #11
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Halak who is a legit starter just got less than that, you best be adding.

I loved the Halak trade however, it helps people around the boards realize goalies rarely net as much as everyone hypes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Except that Halak was an unsigned RFA looking for a raise while Schneider is locked up for the next 2 seasons at under 1 million. But still I agree, people dont understand the value of a goalie is never as high as they think. All these Vokoun for Carter proposals are ridiculous.
Erm... Halak just netted a very good prospect, who is NHL ready most likely, and on an ELC, plus a guy that looks like he's on track to develop into a solid 3rd/4th line grinder willing to go.

How much value do you really think an overpaid Carle, and Coburn have at this point given their respective contract statuses?

The Carle Trade:
To Philadelphia: Matt Carle + 3rd
To Tampa Bay: Downie and Eminger + 4th

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Old
06-20-2010, 06:15 PM
  #12
04' hockey
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Wtf.....

is wrong with a stacked "D" like we have now once Holmgren gets Hamhuis signed ?



Why are some trying to trade either Carle or Coburn ?


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06-20-2010, 06:24 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sedinfan3322 View Post
the halak trade is not how you should be looking to measure goalies' worth in the NHL. there are many reasons why that trade is so bad:
1. halak came off a crazy playoffs, meaning he'll get mucho $$$
2. he'll likely sign a 2 year deal, then become an UFA commanding even more $$$
3. MTL gm's seem to be real brain morons!

value is determined by teams needs, and halak can't fit into many teams plans with the points i just made.
corey schneider on the other hand is making 0.9M the next 2 seasons, is one of the top goalies not in the NHL, and is an RFA when his contract expires in 2 seasons.
not saying schneider is better goalie in any sense, but i could argue he can fit into a teams payroll structure and a teams future plans much better than halak, thus making his trade value much different and not fairly comparable.

here's my philly vancouver proposal:
schneider (0.9)
raymond (rfa ~3)
bieksa (3.75)
schroeder (NA/prospect)
2010 1st (NA) (total 7.65)

for

carter (5)
coburn (rfa ~3) (total 8)

flyers save a little $$$ while filling an extra roster spot as well. raymond is a solid young speedster with 30+ goal potential (25 last year). you all know about schneider. bieksa would make so much sense in the eastern conference, especially the flyers. and schroeder is a solid prospect with top 6 potential.
by my calculations u could sign hamhuis (~4M) and ur payroll would be 55.9M (not bad)!
any interest? ideas? additions/subtractions?
My freaking god!!!

I just hope you never, never post that on the main board or on the VAN board... You'll get simply killed!

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Old
06-20-2010, 07:07 PM
  #14
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04' hockey View Post
is wrong with a stacked "D" like we have now once Holmgren gets Hamhuis signed ?



Why are some trying to trade either Carle or Coburn ?

...salary cap.

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Old
06-20-2010, 08:11 PM
  #15
langerrr
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a goalie is only as good as his defensemen in front of him.

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Old
06-20-2010, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sedinfan3322 View Post
the halak trade is not how you should be looking to measure goalies' worth in the NHL. there are many reasons why that trade is so bad:
1. halak came off a crazy playoffs, meaning he'll get mucho $$$
2. he'll likely sign a 2 year deal, then become an UFA commanding even more $$$
3. MTL gm's seem to be real brain morons!

value is determined by teams needs, and halak can't fit into many teams plans with the points i just made.
corey schneider on the other hand is making 0.9M the next 2 seasons, is one of the top goalies not in the NHL, and is an RFA when his contract expires in 2 seasons.
not saying schneider is better goalie in any sense, but i could argue he can fit into a teams payroll structure and a teams future plans much better than halak, thus making his trade value much different and not fairly comparable.

here's my philly vancouver proposal:
schneider (0.9)
raymond (rfa ~3)
bieksa (3.75)
schroeder (NA/prospect)
2010 1st (NA) (total 7.65)

for

carter (5)
coburn (rfa ~3) (total 8)

flyers save a little $$$ while filling an extra roster spot as well. raymond is a solid young speedster with 30+ goal potential (25 last year). you all know about schneider. bieksa would make so much sense in the eastern conference, especially the flyers. and schroeder is a solid prospect with top 6 potential.
by my calculations u could sign hamhuis (~4M) and ur payroll would be 55.9M (not bad)!
any interest? ideas? additions/subtractions?
oh my. you want to throw hordichuk in as well?

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Old
06-20-2010, 09:29 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
If Flyers will not move Carle I'll take Biron for 1M a year.

I am not a big fan but I can tolerate Biron.
I like Biron and, while not great, would've won us the Cup. We need to get someone who is established and isn't named Michael "The Dream Shatterer" Leighton.

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Old
06-20-2010, 09:40 PM
  #18
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DO IT HOLMGREN

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Old
06-20-2010, 10:02 PM
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sg12lw
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DO IT HOLMGREN
why would you want plekanec?? he cant even score on biron

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Old
06-20-2010, 10:05 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by 04' hockey View Post
is wrong with a stacked "D" like we have now once Holmgren gets Hamhuis signed ?



Why are some trying to trade either Carle or Coburn ?

I'm definitely not in that camp. I think we can sign him and Coburn and also get a goalie (Biron or Niitty or someone else) for relatively cheap. As long as the salary cap goes up by 2 million we should be okay.

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Old
06-20-2010, 10:50 PM
  #21
decadentia
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Erm... Halak just netted a very good prospect, who is NHL ready most likely, and on an ELC, plus a guy that looks like he's on track to develop into a solid 3rd/4th line grinder willing to go.

How much value do you really think an overpaid Carle, and Coburn have at this point given their respective contract statuses?

The Carle Trade:
To Philadelphia: Matt Carle + 3rd
To Tampa Bay: Downie and Eminger + 4th
I think Montreal would have been much happier with a Parent+ or Coburn/Carle going to them for Halak. Not denying Eller isn't a good prospect, but I do think a Top 4 defenseman holds more weight in most cases. Of course Montreal's cap situation comes into play, I still think they would much rather have a young D capable of minutes. Moreover, I think they would have made room to do so if needed.

We'll have to be in disagreement if Coburn somehow holds the same trade value as Schneider. Especially with how fickle goalie prospects can be (and I hold Schneider high as a prospect). This isn't denying we absolutely need a goaltending solution of some sort by the way. Sadly it may come down to us biting the bullet and paying the price of one of those D-Men for a Schneider...I still won't agree with it.


Last edited by decadentia: 06-20-2010 at 11:19 PM.
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Old
06-21-2010, 12:08 AM
  #22
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why would you want plekanec?? he cant even score on biron
I definitely laughed out loud on that one...

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Old
06-21-2010, 07:57 AM
  #23
Jester
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
I think Montreal would have been much happier with a Parent+ or Coburn/Carle going to them for Halak. Not denying Eller isn't a good prospect, but I do think a Top 4 defenseman holds more weight in most cases. Of course Montreal's cap situation comes into play, I still think they would much rather have a young D capable of minutes. Moreover, I think they would have made room to do so if needed.

We'll have to be in disagreement if Coburn somehow holds the same trade value as Schneider. Especially with how fickle goalie prospects can be (and I hold Schneider high as a prospect). This isn't denying we absolutely need a goaltending solution of some sort by the way. Sadly it may come down to us biting the bullet and paying the price of one of those D-Men for a Schneider...I still won't agree with it.
For Halak, I think Coburn probably would have gotten it done... but if I was Montreal I would have wanted Coburn+ for Price. That's purely because of Coburn's potential, not the way he's played now... and that may change quickly if he gets a bad contract in the next couple months.

However, Eller is a GREAT return. He's a young forward with size and scoring ability who should be in the NHL next year coming off a strong AHL season on a terrible squad. In all seriousness, that trade specifically disproves the "goalies don't get a good return" meme.

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