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Colten Teubert vs. the Hate Machine (Myers wins Calder)

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Old
06-20-2010, 07:48 PM
  #26
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He is a loaf of bread in the oven baking at a low temperature.

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06-20-2010, 07:59 PM
  #27
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He is a loaf of bread in the oven baking at a low temperature.
A banana nut bread.

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06-20-2010, 08:30 PM
  #28
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All the reasons why it was a bad pick and why people are mad have been addressed.

1. The Original Trade

The Kings traded a 1st line winger, plus other assets and have not had a 1st line winger since then.

2. Tyler Meyers

You guys can throw all the excuses out there, but they were both d-man and they both played in the same junior league. Now granted no one is perfect, but the Kings knew they had a ton of picks that year, they were scouting heavily and they just dropped the ball here. This is going to be one of those where you look back and just shake your head and say "WTF were they thinking" I would say it could be another Steve Kelly over Iginla, but lets give Teubert a litte time before he is declared a total flop, but Meyers is going to be a special player, don't kid yourself, and anyone who says he wouldn't have made our opening night roster is on crack. You saying he wouldn't have made it over Alec Martinez? Get real. He would have been our #2 d-man last season.

3. Del Zotto, Karlsson, Carlson, Sbisa

All defenseman, all taken after Teubert, all have had a normal progression to where they are ready to step up to the next level. Would anyone turn down any of these guys for Teubert if offered? No

4. Not being sent to Manchester

I think this is a huge one, generally when first round picks end their junior season they are big time assets for Calder Cup pushes. The Kings didn't even feel comfortable enough to send Teubert to the AHL, and before anyone says it, it had nothing to do with depth at Manchester, they sent Muzzin an undrafted UFA down there over Teubert, a former Top 15 pick. And Muzzin played 13 playoff games. That right there is a massive massive red flag. A kid who was a Top 15 pick was overpassed on the depth chart by an undrafted UFA, yes some of that is on Muzzin progressing, but more so to do with Teubert not progressing at all.

5. Overall Performance

Teubert looked very average at the end of last season in the ECHL, a league where a first round pick should dominate. He came to camp and was not impressive at all. He looked slow and overmatched at the WJC, especially against the USA. And obviously his season with Regina didn't show the Kings enough to send him to the AHL.

So those are my reasons why I hated the trade and hated the pick. Like I said on the Trade Rumors board, players like Teubert, who do not have Top 4 upside should not be drafted that high. Maybe 10-11 years ago when a player like Barrett Jackman was clutching, grabbing, cross-checking and slashing his way to a Calder Trophy. You need to be smart with the way they call penalties, and you have to play a little to be a Top 4 d-man

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06-20-2010, 09:04 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
All the reasons why it was a bad pick and why people are mad have been addressed.

1. The Original Trade

The Kings traded a 1st line winger, plus other assets and have not had a 1st line winger since then.

2. Tyler Meyers

You guys can throw all the excuses out there, but they were both d-man and they both played in the same junior league. Now granted no one is perfect, but the Kings knew they had a ton of picks that year, they were scouting heavily and they just dropped the ball here. This is going to be one of those where you look back and just shake your head and say "WTF were they thinking" I would say it could be another Steve Kelly over Iginla, but lets give Teubert a litte time before he is declared a total flop, but Meyers is going to be a special player, don't kid yourself, and anyone who says he wouldn't have made our opening night roster is on crack. You saying he wouldn't have made it over Alec Martinez? Get real. He would have been our #2 d-man last season.

3. Del Zotto, Karlsson, Carlson, Sbisa

All defenseman, all taken after Teubert, all have had a normal progression to where they are ready to step up to the next level. Would anyone turn down any of these guys for Teubert if offered? No

4. Not being sent to Manchester

I think this is a huge one, generally when first round picks end their junior season they are big time assets for Calder Cup pushes. The Kings didn't even feel comfortable enough to send Teubert to the AHL, and before anyone says it, it had nothing to do with depth at Manchester, they sent Muzzin an undrafted UFA down there over Teubert, a former Top 15 pick. And Muzzin played 13 playoff games. That right there is a massive massive red flag. A kid who was a Top 15 pick was overpassed on the depth chart by an undrafted UFA, yes some of that is on Muzzin progressing, but more so to do with Teubert not progressing at all.

5. Overall Performance

Teubert looked very average at the end of last season in the ECHL, a league where a first round pick should dominate. He came to camp and was not impressive at all. He looked slow and overmatched at the WJC, especially against the USA. And obviously his season with Regina didn't show the Kings enough to send him to the AHL.

So those are my reasons why I hated the trade and hated the pick. Like I said on the Trade Rumors board, players like Teubert, who do not have Top 4 upside should not be drafted that high. Maybe 10-11 years ago when a player like Barrett Jackman was clutching, grabbing, cross-checking and slashing his way to a Calder Trophy. You need to be smart with the way they call penalties, and you have to play a little to be a Top 4 d-man
I wasn't aware Cammy was signed at the time.

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Old
06-20-2010, 09:51 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by McSorley 33 View Post
I love the guy plain and simple....

If he ends up becoming a 3rd pairing guy, so be it.
If by that you mean a 3rd pair guy with the nastiness of Greene, then i'm with you.

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06-20-2010, 10:01 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
I wasn't aware Cammy was signed at the time.
I was going to say the same thing. With Cammy, our options were a. to trade him during the season, b. try and sign him, c. move him during the draft or d. let him walk for nothing. We went with c and you know what, there was no way we'd have gotten a 1st and a 2nd round pick had we moved him during the season. A high second at best.
As for Myers, for a guy that big he plays soft and will now have to play at a higher level because he's expect to. Let's how he handles year 2.

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06-20-2010, 10:49 PM
  #32
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Until the guy grows up some and becomes less of a meathead in his hockey decisions and work it takes to make it, he'll be on my add to any proposal. He just isn't making any fans from DL's comments and he just likes guys who are gamers. More game and less meathead.

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06-20-2010, 11:02 PM
  #33
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the myers stuff is silly. i can't be the only one that remembers the general consensus toward him being that he was a project and would take a while to be a contributor in the NHL. he had huge potential, but no one saw him hitting it this early. i mean come on, he put up more points in the nhl this season than he did in juniors the season before. that kind of ish doesn't happen very often. teubert actually had more points than myers in their draft year, and we all know what teubert is offensively.

i can't say i'm 100% pleased with his development, but the 20/20 hindsight on myers is ridiculous.

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06-20-2010, 11:17 PM
  #34
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the myers stuff is silly. i can't be the only one that remembers the general consensus toward him being that he was a project and would take a while to be a contributor in the NHL. he had huge potential, but no one saw him hitting it this early. i mean come on, he put up more points in the nhl this season than he did in juniors the season before. that kind of ish doesn't happen very often. teubert actually had more points than myers in their draft year, and we all know what teubert is offensively.

i can't say i'm 100% pleased with his development, but the 20/20 hindsight on myers is ridiculous.
Exactly. The hindsight of it all makes it all look terrible but at the time, it's not like the Kings went off-the-wall for Teubert and passed up what most considered a sure thing or anything. Myers was a project, one that rapidly progressed after being drafted. He really didn't start to receive legitimate hype until 6 months after the draft when playing at the WJCs.

Sometimes you hit or miss. Buffalo took the project and so far hit a HR with Myers. Dean took his risk with Hickey and so far has missed. But people need to stop acting like the Myers (now) is the Myers that was drafted.

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06-20-2010, 11:29 PM
  #35
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I still like the pick. I think that we were drafting for a need, A Big Nasty Defenseman at the time and Teubert fit that need the best at draft time. If we wanted a 7' Vagina we would of drafted Meyers


Last edited by Live in the Now: 06-21-2010 at 01:08 AM. Reason: don't circumvent profanity filter please (word is allowable, don't try that with other words though)
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06-21-2010, 12:14 AM
  #36
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If he cracked the lineup of a solid Buffalo team, I think it's safe to say that he would've here.
The Sabres D core is absolutely terrible and needed Myers puck moving abilities. He probably wouldn't have made the Kings due to the age of our blueline.

I'm ok with the Teubert pick but the lesson to be learned here, is ALWAYS take the BPA.

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06-21-2010, 01:04 AM
  #37
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If by that you mean a 3rd pair guy with the nastiness of Greene, then i'm with you.
Yes, that's what I meant.

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Old
06-21-2010, 01:49 AM
  #38
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People need to get off of the Cammalleri thing - he was signed for another year but he was GONE come UFA time, no matter what (just as he left Calgary). You think the Kings were going to pay him what Montreal did? Think again.

And as far as Myers goes, I don't think many people anticipated him playing this well this fast. Hell, if he had that kind of projection, he probably goes ahead of Bogosian, Schenn and Pietrangelo.

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06-21-2010, 01:53 AM
  #39
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This is what Colten Teubert is expected to do in the NHL:



Here is a preview of him showing that he's capable of playing like that:


That type of defensemen described and seen in the videos above is exactly what this team was missing in the playoffs.

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06-21-2010, 02:24 AM
  #40
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The Kings were dealing with another problem pituitary project when they went with Teubert over Myers.

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06-21-2010, 02:56 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
Some people are impatient. The people condemning Teubert are the same ones who wanted us to trade Bernier after his one bad season in the AHL, hated Lombardi for drafting Simmonds in the 2nd round because he was unranked, and wanted to fire the GM before this season because we hadn't made the playoffs yet. A lot of things have worked out in the team's favor lately and I don't think it's by accident. I have a lot more faith in the organization's ability to develop players now than I ever have, Teubert may take a while but if he busts, I don't think it'll be management's fault. Can't say the same for guys from the Jamie Storr era of development.
Not condemning him as much as faulting the pick.

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If he cracked the lineup of a solid Buffalo team, I think it's safe to say that he would've here.
Yep. And if he played as well for us, how stupid would our management be to keep him down? (rhetorical, answer not required)

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In my opinion the distaste for Teubert comes from three factors. The first is that Cammallari was traded with pick #48 to Calgary for picks #17 & #51. Immediately after that the Kings moved #17 with the #28 for the #12. They then traded the #12 to Buffalo for the #13 & #74. So the Kings traded Cammallari, an asset from the Conroy trade (#48), and an asset from the Norstrom trade (#28) to get him. That's three major assets to get one guy. This leads to people thinking that the Kings overpaid for the guy.

The second which has largely been touched on is the development of Myers. Seeing a (likely) Calder trophy winner just slip by can be a tough pill to swallow.

The final reason, and the one I think is the most important, has been the lack of development coming from Teubert both emotionally and on the ice. He has had off ice issues with Regina and has still yet to develop into an AHL quality defenseman. This coupled with the fact that there has been an astonishing development of first and second year defenseman stepping into the league recently hurts his stock even more. Between Hedman, Kulikov, Doughty, Bogosian, Schenn, Myers, DelZotto, and Erik Karlsson that's EIGHT defenseman making the league in their first or second year over the past two years alone. And they're not just playing in the league they are playing quite well. That's a hell of a class to be compared to. What makes them even more remarkable is that over the previous TEN years the only guys to step in after either their draft year or the following year have been Erik Johnson, Marc-Andre Vlasic, Andrej Meszaros, Jay Bouwmeester, Nick Schultz, Martin Skoula, Robyn Regehr and Brad Stuart. That's a total of EIGHT guys over TEN years with the all but Bouwmeester waiting until their second year. The comparisons make Teubert look even worse.
I felt right after the pick that we should've taken Myers, and my feelings have only become stronger over time.

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Originally Posted by Belanger25 View Post
I don't like him because I feel like every time I've seen him play, I have not been impressed by his play. He seems to be flat footed whenever I see going one on one against an opposing attacker.

I don't know I just don't like I see from him.
Seen him play twice in person myself and never was impressed. he goes out of his way to hit but takes himself out of the play

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For everyone else pissy about not picking Myers, why are you bagging on Colton and not on Hickey? At least Colten was drafted where most outlets had him, Hickey was taken out of left feild and has done nothing to merit anything.
Now doubt IMHO, that hickey at #4 has to thi point in time been one of Lombardi's gaffes. Don't get me going further down this road now, its late!

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Old
06-21-2010, 02:58 AM
  #42
McSorley 33
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People forget that we also drafted Drew in the same draft and the kid is already a top five d-man in the game NOW! We won the lotto with that pick big time.

Tuebert looks to be a swing and a miss, which happens to ALL G.M.'s. Is the guy a washed up loser? Of course not, is he a top four guy like he was looked upon to be? Well, it's not looking likely, but not impossible. If Colton falls back to the third pairing and plays his role, then fine. We need a player like him, like we need a forward like Clifford.

All this talk about we should have drafted Myers is lame....we didn't and took someone else, who's game is going to fill a need on this team. Every general manager makes the wrong pick and this happens often throughout ALL teams.

So who gives a **** about the Myers pick; we have Drew "the almighty" Doughty. The kids a generational talent and we have him. We Kings fans actually scored BIG and actually landed the best player....

Can anyone say in the last TEN YEARS, has Kings drafted anyone close to the level of stud as Doughty?

I think we have forgotten how lucky we are to have a young talented group of players playing for the Kings and this teams future is excellent.

So seriously **** the Myers pick and enjoy the ride and be proud of what's to come for this team.

Tueberts our boy and I'm happy to have him...


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06-21-2010, 03:00 AM
  #43
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I wasn't aware Cammy was signed at the time.
He had a single year left on his contract, the year he played out in Calgary

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06-21-2010, 03:02 AM
  #44
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Just to put things into perspective a bit, Duncan Keith had a breakout season this year at 27. Let us not write off our draft picks when they haven't even reached the AHL yet.

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06-21-2010, 03:08 AM
  #45
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He had a single year left on his contract, the year he played out in Calgary
He didn't want to play for the Kings and wanted to go play in Canada. So trade him or let me leave the team for nothing. The choice was pretty easy...

I loved Cammi, but he didn't love us back and sometimes you just gotta let them leave.

Sad.

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06-21-2010, 04:48 AM
  #46
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Can't wait to see him play on the kings and crush the other team players striking fear into them. Dean and co drafted him to be the thief in the army the bad boy. We have an more established core were bring in his bad rep won't matter as much as it would of 2 years ago. We need his style of play on our team And there is no need to rush prospects with the depth we have now let them grow and become better overall and can step in the NHL with out missing a beat like Quinecy(spelling) did

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06-21-2010, 07:30 AM
  #47
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Can't wait to see him play on the kings and crush the other team players striking fear into them. Dean and co drafted him to be the thief in the army the bad boy.
With the #13 pick in the draft?

Sorry with that high a pick you need to draft Top 6 forwards and Top 3 d-man, not meathead who might develop into a physical #5 or 6 d-man. The Kings should have drafted a talented hockey player and then addressed that need in the 2nd round with someone like Hamonic or Lalonde. The ironic thing is both Lalonde and Hamonic are better prospects at this point anyways.

People are saying it was a need draft pick, and here we are two years later and one of the Kings biggest needs is a Top 4 d-man who can move the puck, something that Meyers, Karlsson, Del Zotto and Carlson have already achieved or will be expected to achieve this season.

@Ziggy, come on man. Marchment played a large part of his career in an era where the NHL was a joke. Holding, clutching, cross checking. The best thing the NHL ever did was get away from that pathetic style of play. Bryan Marchment was best known for cheapshot knee on knee hits, I certainly hope with a high draft pick you get more than a cheapshot artist bottom pairing d-man.

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Originally Posted by Tadite View Post
The Myers thing is irrelevant. So he has outplayed 9 of the players taken a head of him.
Tad,

I respect your opinion very much, but its not only about Meyers. It's also about every name I have listed in this thread, even the guys taken in the 2nd round. All of them have progressed while Teubert simply hasn't. Lets pretend Meyers doesn't exist, there are still many d-man taken after that pick who have shown signs they will be excellent NHL d-man, even our own V. Voynov who has played two seasons of AHL Hockey.

And the point you make about the ECHL is very true, no one wants to address it but the Kings felt more comfortable sending an undrafted UFA to Manchester than a former Top 15 pick. It's such a massive red flag but people still just don't want to look at it and would rather call Meyers a vagina or post videos of one of the biggest cheapshot hacks of a thankfully gone dark era of NHL hockey.

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06-21-2010, 10:04 AM
  #48
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At the draft it was Myer or Teubert for me at that point. I was glad to have Teubert + the extra pick.

Teubert is definitely behind compare to his drafted piers. Doughty/Bogosian/Schenn/Myers/Karlsson/Sbisa/Del Zotto has made in to the NHL. This is very rare that so many have made it and establish strong impact in such a short time, and that makes it worst

in 2007, only Alzer could be said to have made it...and he's up and down. Hickey is still no where, AHL next year and NHL in 2011 would be most likely "best" scenario. Teubert is a year younger and i think he makes AHL in 2011, so that means he's not behind Hickey

Also to further illustrates how awesome first round 2008 d is, 2006 only Erik Johnson, as far as first round goes, could say to be regular NHLer.

Teubert will take awhile to develop because defense is just harder to develop traditionally than forwards. Look at how Bernier was in 2008-2009 season before he decides to become the most awesome goalie in the known universe. Definitely Teubert has a long way before we should give up on him

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Old
06-21-2010, 10:20 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Now doubt IMHO, that hickey at #4 has to thi point in time been one of Lombardi's gaffes. Don't get me going further down this road now, its late!
No one picked below Hickey in the 1st round has had much of an impact in the NHL yet. Vorocek/Sutter/Perron have been OK, but at the time we needed a defenseman in the system.

I like Hickey's upside a lot, he's shown some flashes. DL couldn't have done much better in the 1st round, it was a weak draft. Blum would've been nice though.

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06-21-2010, 10:30 AM
  #50
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No one picked below Hickey in the 1st round has had much of an impact in the NHL yet. Vorocek/Sutter/Perron have been OK, but at the time we needed a defenseman in the system.

I like Hickey's upside a lot, he's shown some flashes. DL couldn't have done much better in the 1st round, it was a weak draft. Blum would've been nice though.
Hickey looked pretty good in the playoff game against Hershey I went to a few weeks ago. I don't think it's time to call him a bust at this point.

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