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Colten Teubert vs. the Hate Machine (Myers wins Calder)

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Old
06-21-2010, 10:39 AM
  #51
Youngblood93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
Exactly. The hindsight of it all makes it all look terrible but at the time, it's not like the Kings went off-the-wall for Teubert and passed up what most considered a sure thing or anything. Myers was a project, one that rapidly progressed after being drafted. He really didn't start to receive legitimate hype until 6 months after the draft when playing at the WJCs.

Sometimes you hit or miss. Buffalo took the project and so far hit a HR with Myers. Dean took his risk with Hickey and so far has missed. But people need to stop acting like the Myers (now) is the Myers that was drafted.
Look at the last big project the Kings took, Brian Boyle and we all know how that turned out.

Give CT some time to mature. Not every 1st round pick can come in a dominate like a Crosby, Malkin, Doughty etc. CT is only 20. So what if it takes him a few more years to make the team. If and when he hits his potential the Kings will be waiting.

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06-21-2010, 10:57 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Youngblood93 View Post
Look at the last big project the Kings took, Brian Boyle and we all know how that turned out.
That was the last regime and totally different scouts.

Jeff Tambellini selected a pick later hasn't done mich more than Boyle and He was the opposite of a big project.

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06-21-2010, 11:30 AM
  #53
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I thought we drafted Teubert because Teubert IS a hate machine!

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06-21-2010, 11:41 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
4. Not being sent to Manchester

I think this is a huge one, generally when first round picks end their junior season they are big time assets for Calder Cup pushes. The Kings didn't even feel comfortable enough to send Teubert to the AHL, and before anyone says it, it had nothing to do with depth at Manchester, they sent Muzzin an undrafted UFA down there over Teubert, a former Top 15 pick. And Muzzin played 13 playoff games. That right there is a massive massive red flag. A kid who was a Top 15 pick was overpassed on the depth chart by an undrafted UFA, yes some of that is on Muzzin progressing, but more so to do with Teubert not progressing at all.
It had nothing to do with depth in Manchester It had to deal with what Teubert needs to work on which is the mental part of the game... His biggest problem right now is he has a tendency to take himself out of position trying to make a huge hit. The game in the ECHL is slower paced than the AHL game due to lower talent level across the board in the ECHL. Him playing in the ECHl where he'll get a few extra split seconds to make decisions is the best thing for him. Once he learns to play smart hockey then he'll be ready for a full season in Manchester and maybe LA, but until he gets stronger in the mental aspects of the game Ontario is the best place for him.
And D-men like Teubert typically peak at an older age because their game requires them to be physically mature and strong enough to push other players araound and that may not happen til he's 24-27, see example Chara, Zdeno. And the example of Muzzin is a poor one because he was drafted (Pittsburgh) he just was never signed because of a back injury that cost him a full season of junior hockey.

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Old
06-21-2010, 11:57 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by son of earl View Post
Can't wait to see him play on the kings and crush the other team players striking fear into them. Dean and co drafted him to be the thief in the army the bad boy. We have an more established core were bring in his bad rep won't matter as much as it would of 2 years ago. We need his style of play on our team And there is no need to rush prospects with the depth we have now let them grow and become better overall and can step in the NHL with out missing a beat like Quinecy(spelling) did
I think the correct term is "criminal" as in "every good army needs a few criminals." (See Moderator Tony SCV's signature)

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Old
06-21-2010, 12:21 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
I think the correct term is "criminal" as in "every good army needs a few criminals." (See Moderator Tony SCV's signature)
Yeah it seemed wrong as I was typing it and it was late

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Old
06-21-2010, 12:32 PM
  #57
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Just an FYI, Quick played in the ECHL . . . just throwing that out there.

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Old
06-21-2010, 12:58 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Cutty Sarkn3ss View Post
Just an FYI, Quick played in the ECHL . . . just throwing that out there.


He's a goalie that isn't the same thing.....

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Old
06-21-2010, 01:38 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
Just to put things into perspective a bit, Duncan Keith had a breakout season this year at 27. Let us not write off our draft picks when they haven't even reached the AHL yet.
Exactly. Not everyone is going to step in like Doughty and Myers and be awesome.

Which reminds me - Doughty avoided the sophomore jinx, but there's no guarantee Myers will. Time will tell.

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06-21-2010, 01:52 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite View Post
He's a goalie that isn't the same thing.....
How is that not the same thing? Obviously, different positions but your saying it's ok that a Goalie plays in the ECHL but not a defencemen?

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Old
06-21-2010, 02:07 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutty Sarkn3ss View Post
How is that not the same thing? Obviously, different positions but your saying it's ok that a Goalie plays in the ECHL but not a defencemen?
Probably because a Goalie will go the ECHL to get playing time ala Zatkoff(2008). While a defencemen will go there if they aren't good enough yet.

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Old
06-21-2010, 02:15 PM
  #62
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I still think the Cammy trade will work out good for LA. Teubert is so young, it would be stupid to trade him.

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Old
06-21-2010, 02:15 PM
  #63
Brad Doty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutty Sarkn3ss View Post
How is that not the same thing? Obviously, different positions but your saying it's ok that a Goalie plays in the ECHL but not a defencemen?
A goalie gets pushed there for playing time and because of depth in the system, where skating positions are aplenty. It's just a different situation.

Edit: And on topic, Teubert is a big, smooth skating defensemen, a rare commodity. He has to put it all together, and it's going to take some time for him to mature both emotionally and physically, but he's got an uphill battle to fight against HFBoards, apparently. People have already written him off. I think he's eventually going to be a beast, but I also think he'll be one of the last of our recent prospect defensemen to make the team.

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Old
06-21-2010, 03:35 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
This is about right

For everyone else pissy about not picking Myers, why are you bagging on Colton and not on Hickey? At least Colten was drafted where most outlets had him, Hickey was taken out of left feild and has done nothing to merit anything.
He's done just as much as every other d-man in that draft that we had the chance of drafting, and I stil think he will turn out to be the best of the bunch.

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Old
06-21-2010, 03:42 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Now doubt IMHO, that hickey at #4 has to thi point in time been one of Lombardi's gaffes. Don't get me going further down this road now, its late!
So tell me, KNOWING that we had to draft a defenseman last year, what d-man do you think DL should have picked instead that was ranked higher than Hickey? None of them have done ANYTHING in the NHL yet. I really don't get how people think this was a gaffe or a bad pick by DL...

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06-21-2010, 04:12 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Hickey looked pretty good in the playoff game against Hershey I went to a few weeks ago. I don't think it's time to call him a bust at this point.
don't get me wrong, I am not calling Hickry a bust, I was just wondering why people were so mad at Colton when Hickey has not proven a whole lot more. Is it because Hickey was hurt? I am hoping Hickey develops into a second pairing dman, and Colton a 3rd pairing mean shut down guy

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06-21-2010, 04:44 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Youngblood93 View Post
Look at the last big project the Kings took, Brian Boyle and we all know how that turned out.
I think there's some validity to what you're saying there. Some of the hesitancy to take on a project in Tyler Myers might very well have come from the experience of having to spend so much time trying to coax aggression out of Brian Boyle and failing.

If you go back and read the reports during the 2008 Draft there was a lot of talk about how Myers skated well and had good puck skills for a big man, but didn't bring a consistent physical game. Replace the name "Myers" for "Boyle" and you have almost verbatim what was written about Brian Boyle back in 2003.

Lombardi probably ran out of paint for the ole kitty cat and didn't have the desire nor the patience to take up the brush again if Myers proved to be another Boyle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutty Sarkn3ss View Post
How is that not the same thing? Obviously, different positions but your saying it's ok that a Goalie plays in the ECHL but not a defencemen?
That's pretty much what Lombardi himself said, actually. I don't have the link handy, but I'm pretty sure it was a response given in an article by Rich Hammond.

From what I can recall he mentioned that for goalies it's more important that they get the opportunity to face live shots, handle the puck, and go through the progression/repetition of reading plays and making saves. He mentioned that ultimately that's better than sitting on the bench and not getting a lot of game action and that the relative step-down in competition doesn't really hurt the goalie.

That last part, however, is apparently not good for developing skaters.

He didn't say it outright, but I imagine it's related to the speed of the game being slower at the lower levels, which doesn't force a player to get used to making quicker decisions and reacting to plays where the opposition gets on them for turnovers and stuff.

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Old
06-21-2010, 05:14 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funky View Post
don't get me wrong, I am not calling Hickry a bust, I was just wondering why people were so mad at Colton when Hickey has not proven a whole lot more. Is it because Hickey was hurt? I am hoping Hickey develops into a second pairing dman, and Colton a 3rd pairing mean shut down guy
Other than the injuries, Hickey has progessed how they expected. Hextall said that Hickey was the Monarchs best defenseman in a very tough series against Hershey, especially just coming back from injury.

Hickey could surprise a lot of people in camp, I fully expect him to make the team as the #6 defenseman. He can play with Greene and not be expected to play big minutes. Of course, Voynov and Muzzin will have an equal chance to make the Kings.

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06-21-2010, 06:47 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
With the #13 pick in the draft?

Sorry with that high a pick you need to draft Top 6 forwards and Top 3 d-man, not meathead who might develop into a physical #5 or 6 d-man. The Kings should have drafted a talented hockey player and then addressed that need in the 2nd round with someone like Hamonic or Lalonde. The ironic thing is both Lalonde and Hamonic are better prospects at this point anyways.

People are saying it was a need draft pick, and here we are two years later and one of the Kings biggest needs is a Top 4 d-man who can move the puck, something that Meyers, Karlsson, Del Zotto and Carlson have already achieved or will be expected to achieve this season. (...)
(emphasis and cropping mine)

Let me begin by addressing the notion that teams drafting at #13 are drafting only top six forwards or top three defenseman. I did a quick check of the players drafted from 10-16 from 1990 to 2000 and found out what players drafted in that range actually did in the NHL. (If you want an explanation about why I picked those players over that period of time I please ask and I will elaborate in another post)

Out of those 77 players 25 never played more than 82 games over the course of their careers. That means almost a third of the players didn't amount to anything. An additional 17 played fewer than 410 games (5 full seasons) over the course of their careers. That means more than HALF of the players drafted right around pick number 13 never amounted to anything more than marginal NHLers. That means you have only a fifty-fifty chance (please note that it's worse than that but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here) of even getting a solid NHL player there. The best player out of that bottom 42 is either Oleg Saprykin or Trevor Kidd.

Out of the remaining 35 players only 11 forwards turned into top six forwards, only 7 defenseman developed in to "top three" defenseman (and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt with guys like Brendan Witt and Jay McKee), and you had 3 number one goalies. That's a total of 21 players out of 77 that meet your criteria out of the #13 range. A team has a greater chance of a guy being a complete wash out than of meeting the criteria you stated.

I honestly feel that the vast majority of people have wildly unrealistic views as to what is available at any draft position out of the top five. Remember Dean has said that if you get two and a half players per draft you are ecstatic. There are going to be far more misses than hits.

As for your notion that the Kings drafted based on need I highly disagree. Teubert was coming off a spectacular season and was widely considered a top fifteen pick. He was drafted right where he should have been. The learning curve is just different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Tad,

I respect your opinion very much, but its not only about Meyers. It's also about every name I have listed in this thread, even the guys taken in the 2nd round. All of them have progressed while Teubert simply hasn't. Lets pretend Meyers doesn't exist, there are still many d-man taken after that pick who have shown signs they will be excellent NHL d-man, even our own V. Voynov who has played two seasons of AHL Hockey.(...)
(cropping)

I touched on this in my previous post so I will be brief. What you're comparing Teubert to is wholly unrealistic. In the past two drafts an astonishing eight defenseman have already made the NHL out of the past two drafts. In order to get eight defenseman who made the draft in the same amount of time you have to go ten years back. It's just not a fair comparison.

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Old
06-22-2010, 04:35 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funky View Post
don't get me wrong, I am not calling Hickry a bust, I was just wondering why people were so mad at Colton when Hickey has not proven a whole lot more. Is it because Hickey was hurt? I am hoping Hickey develops into a second pairing dman, and Colton a 3rd pairing mean shut down guy
People don't hate Hickey because Alzner isn't a badass yet.

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06-23-2010, 07:45 PM
  #71
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5.4.3.2.1..... How long before the...

... we could have had Tyler Myers instead of Teubert thread or *****fest.

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Old
06-23-2010, 07:48 PM
  #72
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*King's board implodes*

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Old
06-23-2010, 07:48 PM
  #73
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Well, you just started it..soo...

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Old
06-23-2010, 07:53 PM
  #74
Herby
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Get used to it...

We're going to be hearing about it for the next 15 years. Myers is just a fantastic hockey player, amazing skill and game sense, plus you can't teach 6'8 and that reach. Idiots will say he is soft or whatever other bs excuse, forgetting the greatest d-man of this generation never had more than 50 PIM's in a season.

The Kings will survive, Chicago took Jack Skille over Kopitar and they ended up ok, no one is perfect.


Last edited by Herby: 06-23-2010 at 08:14 PM.
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Old
06-23-2010, 07:53 PM
  #75
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It's only a matter of time...

I really could care less that he won seeing how it has no bearing on the Kings.

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