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Pierre LeBrun: Kaberle moved by Saturday

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Old
06-21-2010, 02:26 PM
  #276
crazedcanuck
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Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
When trading a known commodity I have yet to be disappointed by any return that Burke has got. He has been able to get solid value for all of his trade deadline dumps.
Not so much his summer dealings though.

Stralman, Kubina, his UFA signings, and arguably the Kessel trade = negative results.

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Old
06-21-2010, 02:30 PM
  #277
bobermay
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To Buffalo:
Tomas Kaberle
Nikolai Kulemin

To Toronto:
Drew Stafford
Paul Gaustad
1st 2010

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Old
06-21-2010, 02:32 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by bobermay View Post
To Buffalo:
Tomas Kaberle
Nikolai Kulemin

To Toronto:
Drew Stafford
Paul Gaustad
1st 2010
That's an awful, awful deal.

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Old
06-21-2010, 02:34 PM
  #279
RandV
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Originally Posted by trellaine201 View Post
I think die hard Leafs fans , me included will be dissappointed in the return. I just have a bad feeling.
My personal prediction is it will be similar to the Halak to St. Louis deal. After the trade was announced and before the details released Hab fans were speculating it must be one of Perron/Oshie/Berglund/Backes + maybe a bit extra coming back. Those expectations were crushed when it turned out to be just Lars Eller and an average prospect, but the more rational fan see that Eller is still a great young player and be content with a return that is still much better than pre-playoff low ballers suggested, a 2nd round DP.

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Old
06-21-2010, 02:36 PM
  #280
hatterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedcanuck View Post
Not so much his summer dealings though.

Stralman, Kubina, his UFA signings, and arguably the Kessel trade = negative results.
The Kubina trade was a salary dump pure and simple. I wasn't disappointed with the return (or lack of it) because it accomplished what it was designed to. Get Kubina's contract off the books.

Regarding Stalman. He was simply a victim of numbers on the Toronto Blue line and needed a change of scenery. The return for him (Primeau and a 2nd round pick) is enough that I'm not upset. I figured he would turn into a good NHL defender, he just needed to move on from Toronto.

The Kessel trade wasn't as much being disappointed with the return, as giving up too much in hindsight. It wasn't taking a known player and trying to maximize his value, it was taking a gamble with some question marks (the picks were projected anywhere from 5 to 25).

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06-21-2010, 02:45 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobermay View Post
To Buffalo:
Tomas Kaberle
Nikolai Kulemin

To Toronto:
Drew Stafford
Paul Gaustad
1st 2010
No way

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Old
06-21-2010, 03:07 PM
  #282
crazedcanuck
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Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
The Kubina trade was a salary dump pure and simple. I wasn't disappointed with the return (or lack of it) because it accomplished what it was designed to. Get Kubina's contract off the books.

Regarding Stalman. He was simply a victim of numbers on the Toronto Blue line and needed a change of scenery. The return for him (Primeau and a 2nd round pick) is enough that I'm not upset. I figured he would turn into a good NHL defender, he just needed to move on from Toronto.

The Kessel trade wasn't as much being disappointed with the return, as giving up too much in hindsight. It wasn't taking a known player and trying to maximize his value, it was taking a gamble with some question marks (the picks were projected anywhere from 5 to 25).

You miss my point. There was no need to dump Kubina and move Stralman for underwhelming pending UFA Excelby and more expensive UFA replacements in Komisarek & Beauchemin.

I'm not a fan of giving a defencive D top pairing offensive D $$$. (see Commodore & Hainsey)

Those moves by Burke created the numbers game that pushed Stralman out, and the fact the he got garbage return for existing assets should never be dismissed, since we are talking his potential moves regarding Kaberle it certainly does matter. Especially since he replaced them with nearly $9mil for two 2nd pairing guys..1 of whom is 1 dimensional and the other coming off a missed season due to knee surgery.

I'm a huge fan of Kessel since he was drafted, but the deal was a bad 1 considering Toronto's overall lack of prospect depth and poor F core. Forget the crystal ball talk, 2 potential top 10 picks for a former top 5 pick under the hope a team backstopped by Vesa Toskala would make the playoffs....not too bright.

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06-21-2010, 03:10 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobermay View Post
To Buffalo:
Tomas Kaberle
Nikolai Kulemin

To Toronto:
Drew Stafford
Paul Gaustad
1st 2010
Perfect example of how the average hockey fan has no sense for player values, asset values, or the salary cap/CBA.

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Old
06-21-2010, 03:17 PM
  #284
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Nothing against Clarkson, but he better not be the centre iece of a trade for Kaberle.

That's almost as bad as Sutter asking for Jamal Mayers to be included in the Phaneuf trade.

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Old
06-21-2010, 03:18 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Ementy View Post
a 2nd rounder and a mid tier prospect/player would be a steal for Toronto
So he has the same value as Poni? Don't think so... he's worth more.

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06-21-2010, 03:20 PM
  #286
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2nd most points by a D, since the Lockout.
(1st is Lidstrom)
I dare you to count that again. And don't forget that Niedermayer, Pronger, Rafalski, and Gonchar are defensemen this time.

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06-21-2010, 03:20 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandV View Post
My personal prediction is it will be similar to the Halak to St. Louis deal. After the trade was announced and before the details released Hab fans were speculating it must be one of Perron/Oshie/Berglund/Backes + maybe a bit extra coming back. Those expectations were crushed when it turned out to be just Lars Eller and an average prospect, but the more rational fan see that Eller is still a great young player and be content with a return that is still much better than pre-playoff low ballers suggested, a 2nd round DP.
I guess you never know, but I'm not totally on board with this. As much flack and argument as I got from Blues' faithful, I pretty well called the trade in a few threads prior to the the actually trade itself.

Personal opinion, but a young battle tested goalie has more value than Kaberle. Rip away, but look at how many of these goalies (guys who you'd be comfortable with as your number one), under the age of 25, currently exist around the league. I can count them on one hand, they are at a premium. I can name quite a few more, multi-dimensional, top pairing, younger dmen I'd rather have than Kaberle. He's a very good asset, but Toronto will have to take back the $ that MTL didn't. True 2nd line forward and mid range pick/prospect or a true or improving 2nd line forward with 1st line potential/experience straight up.


Last edited by Karitimes: 06-21-2010 at 03:26 PM.
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Old
06-21-2010, 03:38 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Casey 91 View Post
I guess you never know, but I'm not totally on board with this. As much flack and argument as I got from Blues' faithful, I pretty well called the trade in a few threads prior to the the actually trade itself.

Personal opinion, but a young battle tested goalie has more value than Kaberle. Rip away, but look at how many of these goalies (guys who you'd be comfortable with as your number one), under the age of 25, currently exist around the league. I can count them on one hand, they are at a premium. I can name quite a few more, multi-dimensional, top pairing, younger dmen I'd rather have than Kaberle. He's a very good asset, but Toronto will have to take back the $ that MTL didn't. True 2nd line forward and mid range pick/prospect or a true or improving 2nd line forward with 1st line potential/experience straight up.
I'm not saying the trade value will be the same as Halak, just that when the trade goes down I think it will be a comparable situation where the over optomistic fans are let down, but rather than be a low ball value that some suggest it's still a decent return that most people will see as 'fair value'.

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Old
06-21-2010, 03:45 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Cally Is Overrated View Post
He's bad defensivley. I don't care if he gets 100 points. If a defenseman is bad defensivley, they cannot be elite.
You sir are a TROLL, By your flawed logic Mike Green, you know the guy who puts up MORE points then forwards does is not a elite dman no matter that he just got the norris nomination for a SECOND time.

Most of you fans of other teams are missing the point totally.

We are NOT going to trade Kabs unless it is a great deal for us. We can and will get a nice hometown discount for one of the premier puck moving d men in the game no matter what the blind and ignorant haters say. His style of game is one that lends for a LONG career and that has been proven again and again over the history of the game.

If a team wants him they are going to have to make it worth OUR while to not have him locked up at a nice cheap deal and move someone else like F-bomb or Komi.

And for those throwing their garbage at us like Langs please, the difference between Langs and Kabs is that Kabs has skill and will be around for a while yet... Jamie is on the edge of his career and it's not going to get better from here at his age. We want YOUTH so throwing old men at us does no good. We're not a fricking retirement home anymore. Mayne under the old regime but not anymore.

Any GM that is going to trade for Kabs you can bet your bottom dollar they are going to have a extensive meeting with Kabs and Curran. If he didn't he wouldn't be doing his due diligence and GM's (besides Sutter and Sather that is ) just don't make mistakes like that when it comes to a trade like this. A handshake deal done before the faxes get sent to gary and company would make his value go up a hell of a lot no matter weather you like him or not. What the fans on here think of a player means nothing and in fact i would bet money on the fact that most GM's if they read these threads would have a stroke at some of the things said. Hell They probably have a contest at the annual GM's meetings to see what the biggest boneheaded proposal of the year is.

Lets look at it like this

Halak got a top prospect AND a fighting scrub who's numbers are inflated by playing on the team that he plays for ( Hitmen ) after a couple of years in the league and never playing a full season.

Kabs has played for 11 seasons, and over the past five on a CRAPPY as hell leafs team no less averages 51.6 points and plays with a level of calm when moving the puck that very few guys in the league today have. His outlet passes are a thing of beauty. Not to mention that his shot is underrated and much better and harder then most fans give him credit for. Hence the cry for a long time in Big Smoke for him to shoot the puck more! Then you throw in his ability to run a PP and that helps his value even more. ( I don't blame Kabs for our PP, I blame our Special Teams coaching or lack of it, a bloody monkey could have coached the guys better imho )

Personally i can't wait for some people to end up with egg on their faces... and i doubt it will be the level headed leaf fans

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06-21-2010, 03:48 PM
  #290
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please just do it already... Kaberle threads have been going on for way too long
AGREED! BLUE CHIP PROSPECT HERE WE COME!

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06-21-2010, 03:49 PM
  #291
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I just hope that LeBrun is right because I just want this whole saga to end.

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06-21-2010, 03:51 PM
  #292
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Got some decent response from this, let me know what you guys think.
Chicago's trying to dump campbell, so why not get a third team involved.
Tor
Sharp
Clarkson

Chi
Kaberle
NJ 2nd (Via Atlanta Cormier deal)

NJ
Hayes
campbell

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Old
06-21-2010, 03:51 PM
  #293
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Burke talking with Columbus. Jackets hold the 4th OV pick and they sorely need a puck moving defenseman, nevermind one of Kaberle's calibre. Maybe something could be done there. Not Kaberle for 4th OV straight up, but using those 2 pieces to start with.

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Old
06-21-2010, 03:53 PM
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandV View Post
My personal prediction is it will be similar to the Halak to St. Louis deal. After the trade was announced and before the details released Hab fans were speculating it must be one of Perron/Oshie/Berglund/Backes + maybe a bit extra coming back. Those expectations were crushed when it turned out to be just Lars Eller and an average prospect, but the more rational fan see that Eller is still a great young player and be content with a return that is still much better than pre-playoff low ballers suggested, a 2nd round DP.
Come on Lars Eller is the same as Tlusty, if you think that Kabeler does not get better than that then you better quit watching hockey

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Old
06-21-2010, 04:02 PM
  #295
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He's coming to buffalo

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Old
06-21-2010, 04:15 PM
  #296
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3 Way Deal Toronto-Chicago-Edmonton?

To Chicago
Kaberle and Grabovski

To Toronto
Sharp and Campbell

To Edmonton
Sharp and Campbell

To Toronto

Edmonton"s 1st pick

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Old
06-21-2010, 04:19 PM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceinthehole View Post
To Chicago
Kaberle and Grabovski

To Toronto
Sharp and Campbell

To Edmonton
Sharp and Campbell

To Toronto

Edmonton"s 1st pick
How is that a 3-way deal?

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Old
06-21-2010, 04:21 PM
  #298
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To Boston

Kaberle
Kulemin

To Toronto

Wideman
Wheeler
Hamill

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Old
06-21-2010, 04:23 PM
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxClearTheCreasexx View Post
Got some decent response from this, let me know what you guys think.
Chicago's trying to dump campbell, so why not get a third team involved.
Tor
Sharp
Clarkson

Chi
Kaberle
NJ 2nd (Via Atlanta Cormier deal)

NJ
Hayes
campbell
Toronto gets more depth at center, plus a banger who can pitch in offensively.
Chicago gets a cheap replacement for campbell, shed some money.
New Jersey gets their PMD, plus a decent prospect
Please Toronto can't handle any more cash dedicated to defense.

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Old
06-21-2010, 04:25 PM
  #300
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxClearTheCreasexx View Post
Got some decent response from this, let me know what you guys think.
Chicago's trying to dump campbell, so why not get a third team involved.
Tor
Sharp
Clarkson

Chi
Kaberle
NJ 2nd (Via Atlanta Cormier deal)

NJ
Hayes
campbell
Chicago fan I see.... Both Toronto & NJ get completely bent over. If Campbell is going to NJ, Rolston is going the other way, and if Kaberle is leaving Toronto, it's going to be for a better player than either Sharp or Clarkson.

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