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Flyers Goaltending Options

View Poll Results: Which Option is Best For Starting Goaltender
Sign Free Agent (Turco, Mason, Ellis, Biron, Niittymaki, etc.) 51 42.50%
Re-sign Leighton 6 5.00%
Trade for Young Goalie (Schnieder, Harding, Enroth, etc.) 23 19.17%
Trade for High End Starter (Vokoun, etc.) 17 14.17%
Free Agent Stop Gap, then prospect in a few years 23 19.17%
Boucher 0 0%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-22-2010, 02:09 AM
  #26
decadentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
I don't believe Homer's hands are tied because he can move Coburn and his projected cost or a forward.

Turco would force a major move, IMO, but I don't see Biron as doing so. I honestly feel that this D and system can make a solid goalie look better than a very good goalie on a lesser D talented team... I believe this past postseason showed that, and that was without Hamhuis and two weaker links on D... Hamuis on this team may have meant a Cup; but who knows?

I do think however that Clarke's way of thinking about goal tending would have worked much better with this team than it did with the ones he managed. With Homer now it doesn't seem to have the same ring to it.
The fact that we need to trade Carle/Coburn now to me shows we have put ourselves in a hard spot. Though if we trade them and it somehow turns into a legitimate #1 goalie, I think the movie is brilliant. We aggressively shop for a #3 D and trade away our lesser current D to fortify our net...great! If this isn't done, and he goes with Leighton/Boucher, he's learned nothing.

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Old
06-22-2010, 02:29 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
The fact that we need to trade Carle/Coburn now to me shows we have put ourselves in a hard spot. Though if we trade them and it somehow turns into a legitimate #1 goalie, I think the movie is brilliant. We aggressively shop for a #3 D and trade away our lesser current D to fortify our net...great! If this isn't done, and he goes with Leighton/Boucher, he's learned nothing.
I don't see as putting ourselves in a hard spot. At this point Coburn is not signed... neither is Hamius for that matter... if he is Hamius is signed and Coburn is moved it would IMO be an upgrade this season and at least a couple forward at a bit more of a Cap hit, depending on what Coburn would demand.

In a way, as you alluded to, it can actually give Homer some more flexibility and options on the direction he can go on... He could tweak the forwards or upgrade the goal, or he could have one damn solid and deep D-corps. I guess by the Draft we will have a much better idea which way Homer will go. I kinda like the rotating five top four.

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Old
06-22-2010, 06:06 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by flyersjamminontheone View Post
Why the hell would we want Biron? Seriously? The handfull of people saying Biron is the answer need to shake their heads. I'm by no means a Leighton backer(as a starter) but 10 time out of 10 i take him, over Biron (as nice of a guy as he is).
Yeah, why the hell would we want a goalie who carried us in the playoffs several years ago, and put up a .918 save percentage the following year when the team played like crap in front of him, who fit with the chemistry of the team, instead of someone who crapped on the ice in the finals (.858 save percentage and way too many soft goals with a better defense and coach than Biron ever had)

Biron might not be the best option out there, but I take him over Leighton in a heartbeat

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Originally Posted by TradeCarter View Post
Carter, Carle, and Boucher for Luongo
Quote:
Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
I hate Biron, probably more than Ryan Parent. Couldnt stand him as a Flyer, but Biron is better than Leighton.

But with that I say, sign Turco, Ellis, or Mason and trade for a blue chip goalie prospect like Schneider, Enroth, Neuvirth, just to stack our goalies so at least ONE might break through and become a top goalie.
Absolutely not....besides, Vancouver has Sedin/Kesler down the middle, why would they trade for Carter?? Maybe one of the dmen+ for Schneider?

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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Okay, call me crazy but here is my thinking:

Before that heart breaking OT goal in Game Six and the other games Leights was pulled I was sold on Leighton/Boucher for 2010-11... Quite simply I got caught up in the way the team played with them in the postseason. The Finals and last goal restored in me the feeling that a solid steady upper rated goalie was needed to win a Cup in a tense Finals against a top flight Western Championship team... Up until that point an excellent team game was enough if it had the heart and work ethic as well as talent; a merely good goalie was sufficient.

I don't think an expensive top rated elite goalie is needed with this team and this system if they work and cover each other in front of him... and Pronger means so much to this team. Add him to Kimo and Coburn, and team him with Carle and now Hamhuis and the D is good enough to hoist the Cup. Leighton and Boucher were good enough with this team as it was playing and with the coaching it had.

I had thought that Jeff Reese might be enough to get those two through an entire season... My thoughts changed somewhat, but I still believe that a top rated goalie is not needed. My thinking is now that Reese can get out of Biron what Lemelin couldn't... and the Cap hit that Marty could be signed for would allow both Hamhuis and Coburn without loosing too much of a chunk out of the big ticket forwards.

I say, now that Biron has a new agent and a firmer grip on reality he could be signed reasonably and Jeff might be able to correct some of the things he was having trouble with... such as decision making and puck handling... and get him back to his rebound control game that he has when he is on his top game.

Sign Leighton for back up money with the understanding that he can again fight for the #1 job with solid play when it is his turn and if Marty is injured or falters... Homer can thank Boucher for his good work and being a team player and explain the situation before waiving him down to the Phantoms for depth, if he is not claimed, and hope to sneak him back up if he is needed next season.

IMO this team if it works as it did this year can win with Marty and Leighton and Jeff Reese taking care of protecting the net and with the potential five horses on D in front of them and Lavy's system there for a full Camp and season... I don't want to spend a fortune for multiple years on a one time star that may no longer shine.
At first I was thinking the same thing, however, Leighton's numbers were absolutely carried by those shutouts against Montreal....Look at his numbers in the Finals series and he was dreadful...That doesnt mean he cant improve if he works on covering his five whole and polishes his fundamentals, but I go with Bouch/Leighton ONLY if there isnt somone else we could sign that makes sense.

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Old
06-22-2010, 07:41 AM
  #29
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I Voted for "sign free agent," but I must say I'm surprised that there isn't more people who think we'll resign Leighton. For the record I'd like us to do both. I'd be totally fine with Ellis/Turco/Mason and Leighton as a backup.

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Old
06-22-2010, 07:44 AM
  #30
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I like Vokoun but I can't see it fitting or happening.

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Old
06-22-2010, 07:51 AM
  #31
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Mason or Ellis for me with Leighton as backup.

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Old
06-22-2010, 08:17 AM
  #32
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Dream world? Trade for Schneider, dump Boucher (Schneider makes less than Boosh), and still sign a free agent goalie.

Real world? Go after Mason/Ellis/Turco, keep Boosh or dump for Leighton as backup.

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Old
06-22-2010, 08:36 AM
  #33
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I have high hopes for Bobrovsky and Eriksson. I really think the stop gap route is the way to go.

This team has not had success with bringing in older goalies (Beezer, Burke...) and as a result, Turco worries me.

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Old
06-22-2010, 08:38 AM
  #34
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Trade Carle for Vokoun

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Old
06-22-2010, 08:56 AM
  #35
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A conversation with Marty Turco and Paul Holmgren (but like... not really)

Would anyone on this board (excluding you ****ing single pukes w/ no kids) accept a job offer like this:

H"Good morning Marty."

T"Hey, How's it Hanging Holmes?"

H"Good, Say I have a lucrative offer I'd like to extend your way..."

T"I'm all ears Paul."

H"... so here it is. We've been thinking you're just the thing we need in our organization; a veteran with the skills and experience needed to get us over that final hump. We would like you and your family pack up your **** and move from Dallas to Philadelphia over the summer. You'll be taking up essentially the same position you're in now with your current employer, except with a few perks (see Chris Pronger, Kimmo Timonen, etc.)..."

T"Wow, that sounds really good... What's the pay?"

H"See, well you're currently making 5.7M. That doesn't sit too well with our company. We are an established firm with an excellent resume, destined for big things so if you'd like to come along for a ride we're going to have to ask you to make significantly less... say LESS THAN HALF of what you make now... Otherwise we will have to let some people go and we just are not willing to do that."

T"How long of a deal are we talking about here?"

H"Well, since you're old as **** already, we are thinking of keeping you around for maybe 2 seasons max."

T"So let me get this straight. Come to Philly have an opportunity to do great things, doing essentially the same job for significantly less money. Then in two years, get the hell out of Dodge?"

H"Basically... Yeah."

T"Geez Paul. I'm flattered... I'm not sure I can give you an answer on the spot though."

H"That's okay Marty, we understand that you have obligations to your family. Take your time think it over and call me when you arrive at a decision."

Turco hangs up the phone...

next caller is Steve Yzerman.

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Old
06-22-2010, 08:59 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
Would anyone on this board (excluding you ****ing single pukes w/ no kids) accept a job offer like this:

H"Good morning Marty."

T"Hey, How's it Hanging Holmes?"

H"Good, Say I have a lucrative offer I'd like to extend your way..."

T"I'm all ears Paul."

H"... so here it is. We've been thinking you're just the thing we need in our organization; a veteran with the skills and experience needed to get us over that final hump. We would like you and your family pack up your **** and move from Dallas to Philadelphia over the summer. You'll be taking up essentially the same position you're in now with your current employer, except with a few perks (see Chris Pronger, Kimmo Timonen, etc.)..."

T"Wow, that sounds really good... What's the pay?"

H"See, well you're currently making 5.7M. That doesn't sit too well with our company. We are an up and comer destined for big things so if you'd like to come along for a ride we're going to have to ask you to make significantly less... say LESS THAN HALF of what you make now... Otherwise we will have to let some people go and we just are not willing to do that."

T"How long of a deal are we talking about here?"

H"Well, since you're old as **** already, we are thinking of keeping you around for maybe 2 seasons max."

T"So let me get this straight. Come to Philly have an opportunity to do great things, doing essentially the same job for significantly less money. Then in two years, get the hell out of Dodge?"

H"Basically... Yeah."

T"Geez Paul. I'm flattered... I'm not sure I can give you an answer on the spot though."

H"That's okay Marty, we understand that you have obligations to your family. Take your time think it over... here's my card. Call me when you arrive at a decision."

Turco hangs up the phone...

next caller is Steve Yzerman.
SY: Hey Marty, I hear you turned down $2.5M from the Flyers. I'll offer you $2 million, otherwise your SOOL and headed for Russia with your family.

You've got a choice. Cup run in Philly. Playoff scramble and early golf in Tampa, or take your Mrs. to Minsk....

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Old
06-22-2010, 09:05 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
SY: Hey Marty, I hear you turned down $2.5M from the Flyers. I'll offer you $2 million, otherwise your SOOL and headed for Russia with your family.

You've got a choice. Cup run in Philly. Playoff scramble and early golf in Tampa, or take your Mrs. to Minsk....
You honestly don't believe anyone else is interested in Turco this offseason?

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Old
06-22-2010, 09:32 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
Would anyone on this board (excluding you ****ing single pukes w/ no kids) accept a job offer like this:

H"Good morning Marty."

T"Hey, How's it Hanging Holmes?"

H"Good, Say I have a lucrative offer I'd like to extend your way..."

T"I'm all ears Paul."

H"... so here it is. We've been thinking you're just the thing we need in our organization; a veteran with the skills and experience needed to get us over that final hump. We would like you and your family pack up your **** and move from Dallas to Philadelphia over the summer. You'll be taking up essentially the same position you're in now with your current employer, except with a few perks (see Chris Pronger, Kimmo Timonen, etc.)..."

T"Wow, that sounds really good... What's the pay?"

H"See, well you're currently making 5.7M. That doesn't sit too well with our company. We are an established firm with an excellent resume, destined for big things so if you'd like to come along for a ride we're going to have to ask you to make significantly less... say LESS THAN HALF of what you make now... Otherwise we will have to let some people go and we just are not willing to do that."

T"How long of a deal are we talking about here?"

H"Well, since you're old as **** already, we are thinking of keeping you around for maybe 2 seasons max."

T"So let me get this straight. Come to Philly have an opportunity to do great things, doing essentially the same job for significantly less money. Then in two years, get the hell out of Dodge?"

H"Basically... Yeah."

T"Geez Paul. I'm flattered... I'm not sure I can give you an answer on the spot though."

H"That's okay Marty, we understand that you have obligations to your family. Take your time think it over and call me when you arrive at a decision."

Turco hangs up the phone...

next caller is Steve Yzerman.
If you think GM's are that honest in real life your insane. All Homer has to say is that his numbers are on the decline so he won't get a big pay day and also we won't sign him for more than 2 years because of That same reason. Let him know that if everything works out and he returns to form he can retire here with a heavy finger and a fat paycheck while in all reality if Eriksson or Bobo turn into anything decent we will kick Turco to the curb. It's a business. Using your theory when you walk into a job interview for a sales job are they going to say "you going to have a really terrible base salary and scrape by for a couple years until you actually start making a decent commission"? No they are going to say "we offer a competetive base salary plus UNLIMITED commission. If your not making of 200k a year your doing something wrong!". While in all reality a ything over 70k would be top in the department.

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Old
06-22-2010, 09:35 AM
  #39
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You honestly don't believe anyone else is interested in Turco this offseason?
Not for anything near 5 million a season

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Old
06-22-2010, 09:43 AM
  #40
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You honestly don't believe anyone else is interested in Turco this offseason?
Who needs a starter? Philly, if they don't re-up Leighton. Tampa. Maybe San Jose, if they don't re-up Nabby.

I'm not saying Turco isn't still a good goalie, it's just, well, did you ever play musical chairs as a kid?

There are a lot of UFA goalies available and not a lot of spots. Then you have to add in young guys trying to get in, like Bernier, who could play for another team if dealt, or old guys like Thomas or Khabibulin or Huet, whose teams are trying to dump them on someone else.

This is one situation in which Homer actually holds the cards. Let's hope he plays them well.

He can talk to Turco, Mason, Ellis, Nabokov and offer them all $2.5 million. If none bite, he can sign Leighton and Niittymaki for $1.5 million each....

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Old
06-22-2010, 09:43 AM
  #41
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I voted for Leighton because I am sure that I want him to have a chance as backup/possible starter this year. I'd like to bring in someone like Ellis, Roloson, Mason, M.Smith, Quick, etc. and let them battle it out in camp and throughout the season if need be.

Like a couple other posters, I am very high on our prospects and hope one of them pans out (preferrably Sunshine). I wouldn't mind Backlund in the mix this year, as well. One thing I do know is that I would like Boosh to move on...

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Old
06-22-2010, 10:18 AM
  #42
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Last season was tough for him and I don't know if this is now his level of play, but Biron had a .918 and .915 SV% with us in the regular season, was very good in the run to the ECF in 08 and really wasn't the reason we lost to the pens in 09. If he can perform up to his Flyer-standards and comes at less than a $2mil cap-hit that's a bargain and could be a very strong backend in combination with this ridiculous defensive corps.
I don't know why his last year's stats went so downhill, I doubt it's all because of the D the Islanders have, but his off-season had to be pretty rough.
So if Homer thinks Biron can get back on track I wouldn't be against a return of the Great Gaston.
It's not his overall numbers that would scare me, it's the back-breaking soft goals he'd randomly give up and the nightmare he was as a puck handler. Those softies are just DEATH in the postseason.

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06-22-2010, 10:33 AM
  #43
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Would any of the Sens goalies be an option? They have Elliot, Leclaire, and Brodeur in net. Elliot could possibly become the number one guy and Brodeur may make a case for himself. Any chance of us going after Leclaire? I would LOVE to bring him in here, if possible (not sure of his contract details or anything).

Edit: They may not own Brodeur any more...


Last edited by Morinisbear: 06-22-2010 at 10:41 AM.
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Old
06-22-2010, 10:37 AM
  #44
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If you think GM's are that honest in real life your insane. All Homer has to say is that his numbers are on the decline so he won't get a big pay day and also we won't sign him for more than 2 years because of That same reason. Let him know that if everything works out and he returns to form he can retire here with a heavy finger and a fat paycheck while in all reality if Eriksson or Bobo turn into anything decent we will kick Turco to the curb. It's a business. Using your theory when you walk into a job interview for a sales job are they going to say "you going to have a really terrible base salary and scrape by for a couple years until you actually start making a decent commission"? No they are going to say "we offer a competetive base salary plus UNLIMITED commission. If your not making of 200k a year your doing something wrong!". While in all reality a ything over 70k would be top in the department.
Obviously he meant that post tongue in cheek, but it did remind me of a CBC special a few years back where they went in for a behind the scenes look and contract negociations, and I couldn't believe the things that were said. I specifically remember Mike Milbury absolutley slamming a player while on the phone with both the player and the agent. "Why would I pay $1,000,000 to a guy who has to hold on to the boards so he doesn't fall down?" "There are fat guys in the stands that could come into camp in better shape than you do." It was hillarious. If anyone remembers what I'm talking about I'd love to see that clip again.

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Old
06-22-2010, 11:33 AM
  #45
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During LeBrun's chat wrap, he mentioned that because of the number of available goaltenders on the market, some of them (i.e. - Nabby, Turco) will likely take less money. I think that's a valid point, especially in Turco's case. Turco certainly didn't play like a 5.7M goaltender last year, so there's no reason to believe that the Flyers are going to offer him that much or some other team is going to vastly overpay for him.

Around half to 2/3 of that actually sounds about right, honestly. Look at the top 10 highest paid goalies in the league.

Henrik Lundqvist 6.875
Roberto Luongo 6.75
Ryan Miller 6.25
Jean-Sebastien Giguere 6
Niklas Backstrom 6
Miikka Kiprusoff 5.833
Marty Turco 5.7
Tomas Vokoun 5.7
Cristobal Huet 5.625
Evgeni Nabokov 5.375

If you're looking at that list, six of the goalies are capable and consistent starters, and the other four (including Turco) had bad seasons last year.

Looking at this numbers, it's hard to believe that Nabakov (who nobody is talking about) made a little less then Turco did last year and played much better. I know the Sharks are stacked, but Nabby's play was pretty solid throughout the season. But using my previous idea of goalies taking less money, it means that Nabakov would probably be far less willing to do so.

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06-22-2010, 11:41 AM
  #46
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Depending on the money I'd love to see Leighton in some reserve role, as a 1B or #2 guy.

Of the FA options, I think Mason is the best fit for the Flyers taking all things into consideration. Turco will probably cost too much and apart from his puck handling I don't see a big advantage, especially if Leighton returns to make 20 starts or more as part of a platoon. Turco has been a little more durable than Mason but I don't know if that is still true and it's moot in a situation with a solid backup.

I am sorry but handing the keys to a young guy on a team that wants to win now is a terrible idea. We have seen Schneider and Harding, they are not ready for everyday duty IMO and definitely not in a high pressure situation like they'd be stepping into here.

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06-22-2010, 12:27 PM
  #47
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I voted trade for a vet (Vokoun), but if FLA continues asking for Carter or other silliness then I'd move on to a FA like Turco or Ellis.

I only want Thomas if Briere goes the other way which absolutely doesn't work for Boston, so it would have to be a 3-way; they are as deep at C as we are.

I am curious what Nabokov will end up getting, and if getting out of SJ might not be good for him. Obviously we all know what he got last year, but will the Sharks offer that to him now? And if they don't, what other team will? At what point does Nabby become the best option, meaning as his salary demands drop because the big offer just isn't there?

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06-22-2010, 12:47 PM
  #48
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I was on CNNSI.com this morning and they mentioned that Holmgren wants to get the Hamhuis contract done ASAP because he wants to not just get any goaltender, but he's looking for a long term solution. I've talked to a few scouts in the area and they said that Holmgren and company are focused on a couple of goaltenders. They mentioned one name to watch out for is Jimmy Howard. Detroit has contacted Darcy Regier about Ryan Miller and word is the Wings are willing to send Filpula, Erikson, and Kindl for Miller and that once Miller gets to Detroit, Howard would be flipped along with a draft pick for either Carle or Coburn.

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06-22-2010, 01:51 PM
  #49
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Quote:
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The "Sign Free Agent" and the "Sign Free Agent Stopgap" seem kind of like the same thing. I don't think anyone is viewing any goalie in free agency as a long term answer, except possibly Nabokov. But I do think any goalie listed in option number 1 would be an improvement from last year.
Exactly what I was thinking. I want Chris Mason on a 2-3 year deal for around 2.75-3M.

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06-22-2010, 01:51 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I was on CNNSI.com this morning and they mentioned that Holmgren wants to get the Hamhuis contract done ASAP because he wants to not just get any goaltender, but he's looking for a long term solution. I've talked to a few scouts in the area and they said that Holmgren and company are focused on a couple of goaltenders. They mentioned one name to watch out for is Jimmy Howard. Detroit has contacted Darcy Regier about Ryan Miller and word is the Wings are willing to send Filpula, Erikson, and Kindl for Miller and that once Miller gets to Detroit, Howard would be flipped along with a draft pick for either Carle or Coburn.
That would be like a dream come true.

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