HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Which legendary European players should make the Hall of Fame?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-23-2010, 04:19 AM
  #1
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,932
vCash: 500
Which legendary European players should make the Hall of Fame?

I have done limited reading on old legendary Swedes/Czechoslovaks/Soviets, but I think I have a rudimentary feel on who made the greatest impact on the game before the dam broke and the top players started flooding over to the NHL.

From what I gather, these guys should be in any respectable Hall of Fame that claims to represent all of hockey:

Sven "Tumba" Johansson

Jan Suchy
Vlad Dzurilla
Jiri Holecek

Boris Mikhailov
Vsevolod Bobrov
Sergei Makarov
Alexander Maltsev
Vladimir Petrov
Alexander Ragulin
Vladimir Starshinov

Who am I missing?

added:
Anatoli Firsov


Last edited by kmad: 06-23-2010 at 05:46 AM.
kmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 04:28 AM
  #2
Eisen
Registered User
 
Eisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Eugene
Country: United States
Posts: 10,874
vCash: 500
Firsov is an obvious omission.
Tarasov is in the Hall.

Eisen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 06:26 AM
  #3
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,404
vCash: 500
I'll do the CSSR and USSR, because I know the most about them.

Czechoslovakia:

Jiri Holecek
Jan Suchy
Vladimir Martinec (4 Golden Sticks, best Czech skater during the 70s golden era)
Ivan Hlinka (combo of what he did as a player and a coach)
Vaclav Nedomansky
Vladimir Zabrodsky (the Bobrov of Czechoslovakia)
Jaroslav Pitner (coach)


Maybes: Milan Novy, Jiri Holik, Josef Malecek, Vladimir Dzurilla

USSR:

Sergei Makarov (it's an embarrassment to the Hall that he isn't in already)
Anatoli Firsov
Boris Mikhailov
Valeri Vasiliev (best defenseman in the USSR in the 70s)
Alexander Maltsev
Vsevolod Bobrov
Vladimir Petrov

Maybes: Alexander Ragulin, Vladimir Starshinov, Alexander Yakushev, Viktor Tikhonov (coach)


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 06-23-2010 at 08:20 AM.
TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 06:28 AM
  #4
jkrx
Registered User
 
jkrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,337
vCash: 500
Alexander Maltsev
Anatoli Firsov
Alexei Kasatonov
Vladimir Krutov
Veniamin Alexandrov
Sergei Makarov
Vitaly Davydov
Boris Mikhailov

Sven Tumba
Roland Stoltz
Bengt-Ake Gustafsson
Ulf Sterner
Anders Hedberg
Kent Nilsson
Tomas Jonsson
Hakan Loob
Mats Näslund
Mats Sundin

jkrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 07:07 AM
  #5
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I'll do the CSSR and USSR, because I know the most about them.

Czechoslovakia:

Jiri Holecek
Jan Suchy
Vladimir Martinec (4 Golden Sticks, best Czech skater during the 70s golden era)
Ivan Hlinka (combo of what he did as a player and a coach)
Vladimir Zabrodsky (the Bobrov of Czechoslovakia)
Jaroslav Pitner (coach)

Maybes: Vaclav Nedomansky, Milan Novy, Jiri Holik, Josef Malecek, Vladimir Dzurilla

USSR:

Sergei Makarov (it's an embarrassment to the Hall that he isn't in already)
Anatoli Firsov
Boris Mikhailov
Valeri Vasiliev (best defenseman in the USSR in the 70s)
Alexander Maltsev
Vsevolod Bobrov
Vladimir Petrov

Maybes: Alexander Ragulin, Vladimir Starshinov, Alexander Yakushev, Viktor Tikhonov (coach)
From my point of view from Slovakia Vaclav Nedomansky, Milan Novy and Dzurilla would be here named as "first ballot locks".

Milan Nový was named the top player in the league three times, and was first in scoring six times. His 90 points (59 goals and 31 assists) in 44 games in 1976–77 is the league record. Nový scored 474 goals in 633 league games, as well as 120 goals in 211 games with the national team. He holds the Czech "iron man" record, playing eight seasons without missing a game. Nový was named to the 1976 Canada Cup all-star team, tied for the most goals, and was the top scorer and MVP on his team. He scored the only goal in a 1–0 Czechoslovak victory over Canada, in a game Bobby Orr said was the best he ever played in.
Golden Hockey Stick (Top player): 1977, 1981, 1982
Scoring title: 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1982
Top goal scorer: 1973, 1975, 1976, 1977

Dzurilla played 19 seasons in CS top leaugue and played 139 times for national team. He was best goalie in 1965 WCH and I think everyone knows how he played in 1976 Canada Cup. He is member of the IIHF Hall of fame and he was named as the best hockey player of 20th century in Slovakia - that is not bad when there were Stastny Brothers or Bondra in the poll options.

Nedomanský was prototype of power forward.
Best league scorer - 4x (everytime with more than 35 goals)
Points leader - 3x
1968 - 1974 was best scorer of the CSSR national team on WCH.
419 games - 369 goals in CSSR league
220 games - 163 goals - national team record
WHA 252 games 135 goals
NHL: 421 games 122 goals
Not bad when we think he entered NHL at age 34 years.

So these 3 guys are not maybes but sure locks.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 07:09 AM
  #6
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
From my point of view from Slovakia Vaclav Nedomansky, Milan Novy and Dzurilla would be here named as "first ballot locks".

Milan Nový was named the top player in the league three times, and was first in scoring six times. His 90 points (59 goals and 31 assists) in 44 games in 1976–77 is the league record. Nový scored 474 goals in 633 league games, as well as 120 goals in 211 games with the national team. He holds the Czech "iron man" record, playing eight seasons without missing a game. Nový was named to the 1976 Canada Cup all-star team, tied for the most goals, and was the top scorer and MVP on his team. He scored the only goal in a 1–0 Czechoslovak victory over Canada, in a game Bobby Orr said was the best he ever played in.
Golden Hockey Stick (Top player): 1977, 1981, 1982
Scoring title: 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1982
Top goal scorer: 1973, 1975, 1976, 1977

Dzurilla played 19 seasons in CS top leaugue and played 139 times for national team. He was best goalie in 1965 WCH and I think everyone knows how he played in 1976 Canada Cup. He is member of the IIHF Hall of fame and he was named as the best hockey player of 20th century in Slovakia - that is not bad when there were Stastny Brothers or Bondra in the poll options.

Nedomanský was prototype of power forward.
Best league scorer - 4x (everytime with more than 35 goals)
Points leader - 3x
1968 - 1974 was best scorer of the CSSR national team on WCH.
419 games - 369 goals in CSSR league
220 games - 163 goals - national team record
WHA 252 games 135 goals
NHL: 421 games 122 goals
Not bad when we think he entered NHL at age 34 years.

So these 3 guys are not maybes but sure locks.
Were Novy and Nedomansky Czech or Slovakian?

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 07:15 AM
  #7
jkrx
Registered User
 
jkrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Were Novy and Nedomansky Czech or Slovakian?
Nedomansky and Novy is Czechs

jkrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 07:16 AM
  #8
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Were Novy and Nedomansky Czech or Slovakian?
Well, they all were Czechoslovaks Novy is pure Czech, Dzurilla is pure Slovak and Novy is something between, although he was born in Czechia.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 07:19 AM
  #9
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Nedomansky and Novy is Czechs
Nedomansky was born in Hodonin, in eastern Moravia in the present-day Czech Republic, but very close to the Slovak border. Today, he claims to feel more Slovak than Czech, having played in Bratislava.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 07:21 AM
  #10
jkrx
Registered User
 
jkrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Nedomansky was born in Hodonin, in eastern Moravia in the present-day Czech Republic, but very close to the Slovak border. Today, he claims to feel more Slovak than Czech, having played in Bratislava.
Sorry I didn't know that he claimed that. I went purely for geographical factors.

jkrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 07:28 AM
  #11
FinHockey
Sex Metal Barbie
 
FinHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 15,013
vCash: 50
I would like to know peoples opinion on Teppo Numminen and Reijo Ruotsalainen. I know Reijo had a very short career (only 446games) but he was damn impressive during that period + he's a two time Stanley Cup winner. I have a pretty neutral opinion on both except for the Finnish bias and that I have never liked RR as much as other Finns for some reason.


Last edited by FinHockey: 06-23-2010 at 07:35 AM.
FinHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 07:30 AM
  #12
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Sorry I didn't know that he claimed that. I went purely for geographical factors.
...and is Canadian citizen too.... it´s not so easy.
For Canada is Mikita pure canadian, altough in Slovakia is considered as a Slovak. He was born here, he live here and he went to Canada to his Slovak uncle who lived there...
What is his feels? He is sure more canadian, but he is proud of his slovaks roots and is visiting Slovakia. What is he?
Stastny is was born in Czechoslovakia, he is Slovak and he is Canada citizen.
He played for three national teams - CSSR, Canada and Slovakia... What is he?
Hard to say exactly, i think it´s only about feelings.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 07:33 AM
  #13
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinHockey View Post
I would like to know peoples opinion on Teppo Numminen and Reijo Ruotsalainen. I know Reijo had a very short career (only 446games) but he was damn impressive during that period + he's a two time Stanley Cup winner.
I would give more credit to Raimo Helminen

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 07:44 AM
  #14
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,404
vCash: 500
There's a list that has been floating around of the best Czech players of the century as voted on by Czech experts:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=1...&postcount=208

rank name points
1. DOMINIK HAŠEK 472
2. JAROMÍR JÁGR 357
3. VLADIMÍR ZÁBRODSKÝ 240
4. VLADIMÍR MARTINEC 235
5. IVAN HLINKA 181
6. VLASTIMIL BUBNÍK 160
7. JAN SUCHÝ 154
8. JIŘÍ HOLÍK 136
9. JOSEF MALEČEK 121
10. VÁCLAV NEDOMANSKÝ 98
11. Jiří Holeček 97
12. Bohumil Modrý 93

I always knew Dzurilla was Slovakian, but I have always wondered why Nedomansky was so low and why Novy wasn't on the list at all. Nedmansky "considering himself more Slovak" explains his low place on the list, but what about Novy?

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 07:55 AM
  #15
VMBM
Amate misericordiam
 
VMBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,564
vCash: 500
Russia:

Anatoli Firsov
Sergei Makarov
Boris Mikhailov
Alexander Maltsev
Vladimir Petrov
Vsevolod Bobrov

HM: Valeri Vasiliev, Vyacheslav Starshinov, Vladimir Krutov...

(Former) Czechoslovakia:

Vaclav Nedomansky
Vladimir Martinec
Vladimir Zabrodsky
Jiri Holecek

I would also consider Hlinka, Suchy and Pospisil. Novy's domestic accomplishments (numbers-wise) should definitely get him there, but I have a problem that despite a couple of strong single tournaments, he was never considered their leading player internationally.

Sweden:

Sven 'Tumba' Johansson


PS. I believe Nedomansky's parents were (are?) Slovaks, which would make him a Slovak rather than a Czech (in my book at least).

VMBM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 08:00 AM
  #16
VMBM
Amate misericordiam
 
VMBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,564
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
There's a list that has been floating around of the best Czech players of the century as voted on by Czech experts:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=1...&postcount=208

rank name points
1. DOMINIK HAŠEK 472
2. JAROMÍR JÁGR 357
3. VLADIMÍR ZÁBRODSKÝ 240
4. VLADIMÍR MARTINEC 235
5. IVAN HLINKA 181
6. VLASTIMIL BUBNÍK 160
7. JAN SUCHÝ 154
8. JIŘÍ HOLÍK 136
9. JOSEF MALEČEK 121
10. VÁCLAV NEDOMANSKÝ 98
11. Jiří Holeček 97
12. Bohumil Modrý 93
Any list that has Jiri Holik above Nedomansky, Holecek and Novy, lacks serious credibility IMO. Nothing against Holik, but all he has over those guys, is longetivity; i.e. games played for the national team. In terms of accomplishments (numbers and awards), he is miles behind.


Last edited by VMBM: 06-23-2010 at 08:35 AM.
VMBM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 08:11 AM
  #17
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
There's a list that has been floating around of the best Czech players of the century as voted on by Czech experts:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=1...&postcount=208

rank name points
1. DOMINIK HAŠEK 472
2. JAROMÍR JÁGR 357
3. VLADIMÍR ZÁBRODSKÝ 240
4. VLADIMÍR MARTINEC 235
5. IVAN HLINKA 181
6. VLASTIMIL BUBNÍK 160
7. JAN SUCHÝ 154
8. JIŘÍ HOLÍK 136
9. JOSEF MALEČEK 121
10. VÁCLAV NEDOMANSKÝ 98
11. Jiří Holeček 97
12. Bohumil Modrý 93

I always knew Dzurilla was Slovakian, but I have always wondered why Nedomansky was so low and why Novy wasn't on the list at all. Nedmansky "considering himself more Slovak" explains his low place on the list, but what about Novy?
Milan Nový is 17th on that list:
http://sport.idnes.cz/dominik-hasek-...2012_sport_noc
Maybe there are a lot of ex-commies in that committe and Nedomansky show middle finger to commie when he left Czechoslovakia.
I red the czech article as many members of the committe wanted to add to list players like Starší, Golonka, Stastny or Matej Buckna. It s hard when it was one country a few years ago and Slovak players were regular and important part of the national team.

I dont know why Milan Novy is 17th... Stastny in his biografy remember him as absolut huge superstar in the league.
//: As I think about it Golonka and Starsi would definetly make it in, too.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 08:13 AM
  #18
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
Any list that has Jiri Holik above Nedomansky, Holecek and Novy, lacks serious credibility IMO. Nothing against Holik, but all he had over those guys, was longetivity. In terms of accomplishments (numbers and awards), he is miles behind.
Nedomansky can be explained by being Slovak in the eyes of many (it is a Czech only list, I believe). Holecek is easy to explain too: He's obviously far behind Hasek, and how many goalies can you really have in the Top 10?

To me, Novy is the real outlier. Not just on the list, either - he only won a single Golden Stick in the 1970s, despite his gaudy numbers. (his golden sticks in the 80s weren't against the best competition - Stastny had defected and the great 70s players were retired or on their way out).

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 08:18 AM
  #19
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
Any list that has Jiri Holik above Nedomansky, Holecek and Novy, lacks serious credibility IMO. Nothing against Holik, but all he has over those guys, is longetivity. In terms of accomplishments (numbers and awards), he is miles behind.
Agreed. Nový and Nedomansky were far better players comparable to level of Jagr or Hasek.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 08:21 AM
  #20
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,404
vCash: 500
I moved Nedomansky to the "should be in" category, where I should have had him to begin with. In addition to his on-ice accomplishments, the fact that he was basically the first European star to defect adds to his historical significance.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2010, 08:27 AM
  #21
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Nedomansky can be explained by being Slovak in the eyes of many (it is a Czech only list, I believe). Holecek is easy to explain too: He's obviously far behind Hasek, and how many goalies can you really have in the Top 10?

To me, Novy is the real outlier. Not just on the list, either - he only won a single Golden Stick in the 1970s, despite his gaudy numbers. (his golden sticks in the 80s weren't against the best competition - Stastny had defected and the great 70s players were retired or on their way out).
It could be because many factors e.g. babbittry or Nový told somebody something or another weird thing. And then he could be the best of the best, when ********g commies said will he will never win anything, he would never win anything.
As you are from the free and democratic side of the world you cannot imagine how weird a communism was.
When Stastny deflected and played for Canada, when he scored a goal against CSSR, in TV (live) commentator said the goal scored another player which even was not on the ice. Weird.
In such conditions any small thing could mean you are litterally out of the lights.

BTW I dont think in 1980´ there were lower talent level. New stars raised up like Liba, Rusnak, Lukac, Šejba etc....

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2010, 06:31 PM
  #22
Kshahdoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 7,082
vCash: 500
Nobody. At least before they won't induct the whole Canada & USA women hockey teams...

Kshahdoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2010, 08:33 PM
  #23
Pentothal
Listen with one ear
 
Pentothal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: It's not even close
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,940
vCash: 500
Tumba.

Get it done.


Pentothal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2010, 09:30 PM
  #24
pappyline
Registered User
 
pappyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mass/formerly Ont
Country: United States
Posts: 4,302
vCash: 500
Ulf Nilsson & Anders Hedberg should be considered. They really revolutionized the North american game on the line with Hull.

pappyline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2010, 12:24 AM
  #25
Kyle McMahon
Registered User
 
Kyle McMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Evil Empire
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,740
vCash: 500
Nikolai Sologubov seems to have been the top Soviet defenseman in their formative years. Three times named best d-man at the world championships.

His career was cut short by his untimely death in 1972, but I've heard Lennart Svedberg called the Paul Coffey of Swedish defensemen. He was named best d-man at the 1970 WHC.

Kyle McMahon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.