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Kaberle for Savard?

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Old
06-23-2010, 10:23 AM
  #76
seanlinden
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Kaberle-for-Savard makes sense in principle, the problem is that neither team does the trade straight up. This would all be assuming that the B's are unable to get Taylor Hall, if they do get Hall, then the B's will likely just keep Savard.

Savard has a NTC and a brand new deal about to kick in also with an NTC. It's very cap friendly as it has 4 more years fo actual salary (7-7-6.5-5) and then 3 years oof intended retirement (1.5, .525, .525). From Boston's perspective, there's an outside chance that Kaberle could walk, but considering how good a fit he'd be there, there's problably a decent chance that he would sign the exact same deal that Savard has right now, maybe with 1 more year of actual service on it. (So an 8 year deal worth an average of about $4.1m, the 5th year in the middle would have a salary of about $4.5 maybe). If Boston knew they could do that, would they trade Savard+? problably. However, fans on here will always look at teh worst case scenario, and it is possible that he does walk.

From a Leaf perspective, you've gotta like the idea of adding Savard to play with Kessel, but objectively you can't do it straight up. Brian Burke apparently doesn't like those long term deals, so trading for one that has yet to kick in would go against that. If he's willing to go against that, you've gotta ask yourself, why not just sign Kaberle to that kind of deal? (7 + 7 + 6.5 + 5 + 4.5 + 1.5 + .525 + .525) With Savard, there is a serious concern as to his age combined with teh concussion, and centre is not the Leafs greatest position of need. They have 3 young high potential options there, whereas they are devoid of talent on the right side after Kessel and on the left side after Kulemin. Savard would simply be an upgrade on Grabovski, which on its own is not enough to trade Kaberle for because of the concussion, and the fact that we are desparate for an upgrade on the wing.

Now, if the Leafs were able to flip Grabo elsewhere for a better winger, then it's something you consider, but I don't see that as a reality. In order to make this trade, the Leafs would need to get 1 of 2 things; either their 2011 First Rounder back (to make offer sheets to guys like James Neal or Bobby Ryan), or Blake Wheeler. Obviously the Leafs would be prepared to include Grabovksi or wahtever they can get by trading him (for Wheeler) or picks/prospects (for the 2011 First). Whether or not that's something Boston is willling to do? Well, again assuming they get Seguin, that's something they may be willing to do if Chiarelli is confident in his abiltiy to get Kaberle signed to a similar cap hit as Savard (should be realistic, Czechs and Slovaks are friends and Boston is by far the best possible destination for him). It also depends on his confidence in his abilty to get a scoring winger using other futures (likely Colborne).

There's only 2 possible deals that I can see working out in the category of Savard-Kaberle swap, and they have several assumptions which may not be realistic....

1. Kaberle, Grabovski for Savard, Wheeler; where Boston then flips Grabovski+ to try adn get a better winger.

2. Kaberle, D'Amigo, Paradis, <draft pick(s) from trading Grabovski> for Savard, 2011 Toronto First Rounder, Ryder

Assumptions
- Brian Burke is willing to do a longterm frontloaded deal.
- Boston is extremely confident in their ability to get Kaberle signed to a deal like that, possibly have to negotiate beforehand.
- Boston doesn't get Taylor Hall
- Boston believes they can use the futures from a Toronto deal + some of their own to get a scoring winger.

Obviously Boston would be parting with assets beyond Savard in hte grand scheme of things, but they'd be losing a centre for a puckmoving defenceman (more valuable in terms of role played) and be gunning for a scoring winger to add to the top 6 of Horton, Lucic and Wheeler.

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06-23-2010, 10:41 AM
  #77
Beleafer4
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
OK... I'm not joking.

To Toronto
Savard

To Boston
Kaberle
Kadri
2012 first rounder or 2013 first rounder. (2013 if 2012 is a top 10 pick.)

I think Leafs fans will say the price is too high, but Savard is one of the best centers out there. Check out his track record since the lock-out. He was great with both the Preds and the Bruins. 4 million a year is a complete steal and he's locked up for a very long time.

We don't know what Kaberle will want after next season or if the Bruins will even have the cap space to hold onto him, so he's not worth anything near Savard with 1 year left on his contract.

Kadri has to be in there. The chance of Kadri turning out to be ass effective as Savard is what? 1/20? 1/30? Kadri is a highly touted prospect, but Savard is arguably one of the top 5 playmakers in the league. I don't see Kadri turning into a top 5 anything in the league.(unless he pulls a Sean Avery...and we know what top-5 that would get you on)

So we've got a first pairing defenseman with 1 year left on his contract and a good prospect. Still not enough for a damn good first line center. One could argue that that first rounder isn't enough, but many Leafs fans may argue that they need a first round pick some time.
wow, you really dislike the leafs do you
are you telling me you would do
Souray
Eberle
2013 first rounder.
for
Savard

Eberle>Kadri
Souray<Kaberle
And our picks will be around the same area in 2013 as your young talent will start developping. Would you do it for savard? If you would then I think boston fans would be happy.

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06-23-2010, 10:45 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Boston won't trade Savard and his new, very cap-friendly contract.
It's "Cap Friendly" because it's very long. He's already 33 and has concussion issues.

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06-23-2010, 10:46 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
No it's not. It clearly favors the Leafs.
It really doesn't.

I'm sure if the roles were reversed, everyone would be pointing out Savard's age and injury concerns. Since he's not the Leaf player, it's being swept under the rug.

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06-23-2010, 10:47 AM
  #80
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Savard is very good, but I believe Burke is looking for younger players. I would pass if I was offered this deal from the Leafs' perspective.

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06-23-2010, 10:48 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
It really doesn't.

I'm sure if the roles were reversed, everyone would be pointing out Savard's age and injury concerns. Since he's not the Leaf player, it's being swept under the rug.
Poor victimized Leafs fans.

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06-23-2010, 10:49 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
OK... I'm not joking.

To Toronto
Savard

To Boston
Kaberle
Kadri
2012 first rounder or 2013 first rounder. (2013 if 2012 is a top 10 pick.)
Ridiculous proposal. Worse than any Leaf fans proposals i've seen. You honestly think Savard is worth all that?

In your post, all you do is talk about all the positives of Savard, and possible negatives of Kaberle.

Honestly, this is a joke.

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06-23-2010, 10:50 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Poor victimized Leafs fans.
Yeah it's great for you, isn't it?

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06-23-2010, 10:52 AM
  #84
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If Savard is traded to the Leafs, how long will it take for everyone to do a 180 and start talking about Savard's injury concerns, age and the fact he's signed until he's 40?

No one who dislikes the Leafs in this thread wants to touch these issues.

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06-23-2010, 10:53 AM
  #85
PhilTheThrillKessel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
If Savard is traded to the Leafs, how long will it take for everyone to do a 180 and start talking about Savard's injury concerns, age and the fact he's signed until he's 40?

No one who dislikes the Leafs in this thread wants to touch these issues.
Obviously it'll happen, but I really could care less.

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06-23-2010, 10:53 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Exactly. The numbers drop off heavily to make a buyout very easy and inexpensive...
Don't need to buy out. All he has to do is retire when he's 37-38 and it's off their salary. It would only count against the cap if he was 35 when the contract was signed. It's a flaw in the system. Same kind of contract Hossa, Zetterberg and Franzen have.

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06-23-2010, 10:59 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
It really doesn't.

I'm sure if the roles were reversed, everyone would be pointing out Savard's age and injury concerns. Since he's not the Leaf player, it's being swept under the rug.
He came back and played in the playoffs, despite his concussion. He's fine, and if he were on your team, all we'd hear about is his cap friendly deal and why that increases his value. He's worth a lot more than Kaberle alone. Before last season's injuries, Savard was 6th in the entire league in points since the lockout.

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06-23-2010, 11:24 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by PJ StockBB View Post
we overpaid or Horton?

giving up the 15th pick in the draft and a defensive liability like wideman for a young player who can score 30 goals and has the potential to hit 40 is not overpaying.

there was a trade made by your team and the Bruins that would count as overpaying, you will see just the beginning of the result of the overpayment this friday.

for the record this is all speculation, why would PC deal our best offensive player for one year of Kaberle. and why are leafs fans so obsessed with making more trades with the Bruins? they never really work out for you guys.

i am not against trading savard, but the right deal has to come around. i am not throwing him to a division rival for one year of a player. we will need more coming back.
40 goals With his luck he'll get hit by a Chara clearing and be out for the season with a broken leg

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06-23-2010, 11:40 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Don't need to buy out. All he has to do is retire when he's 37-38 and it's off their salary. It would only count against the cap if he was 35 when the contract was signed. It's a flaw in the system. Same kind of contract Hossa, Zetterberg and Franzen have.
Exactly.

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06-23-2010, 11:41 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by song4thedeaf View Post


It's a cap friendly deal of a cap hit of just over 4 million...

I don't see how that lowers his value, if anything it increases it.
I wouldn't want to be paying a 40 year old Savard 4 mil(cap hit wise). Would you? That kind of lowers his value, and his injury problems last season.

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06-23-2010, 11:42 AM
  #91
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But if Kaberle is traded what is the HF community going to have to talk about ?
Malkin, Staal, Markov, etc, etc.

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06-23-2010, 11:45 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
He came back and played in the playoffs, despite his concussion. He's fine, and if he were on your team, all we'd hear about is his cap friendly deal and why that increases his value. He's worth a lot more than Kaberle alone. Before last season's injuries, Savard was 6th in the entire league in points since the lockout.
You are so correct

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06-23-2010, 11:59 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by mkleaf View Post
I think it makes sense. Kaberle is a defenseman, hasn't had any injury problems - he will play longer than Savard. Boston will probably draft Seguin this summer, they have Krejci - neither of those will be as good as Savard next year but Seguin probably will be in say, three years time. Then you have a surplus of centres and Savard's cap hit, which looks great now, isn't going to look so nice on a guy approaching 40.

Kaberle is a great skater, but has never played an overly physical game - I think he's got five years at least, and at a good level.

Comparing the players straight up, Savard is better - but it fills a need for Boston and moves a guy who as I said, has a cap hit that's really nice now, but with a NTC could be a problem in a few years with Seguin, Krejci and Bergeron, as well as Colborne, down the middle.

As for the Leafs, this is as good a forward as they'll get for Kaberle and probably puts them back in the playoffs.
If the Bruins could sign Kaberle to a similar deal as Savard it makes sense - otherwise I'm pretty sure 15-20 teams would be more then happy to offer the Bears a better package then 1 year of Kaberle.

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06-23-2010, 12:01 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Cally Is Overrated View Post
I wouldn't want to be paying a 40 year old Savard 4 mil(cap hit wise). Would you? That kind of lowers his value, and his injury problems last season.
He won't be playing then. He'll be retired and off the books...

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06-23-2010, 12:04 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Boston won't trade Savard and his new, very cap-friendly contract.

I agree 100%... I think the leafs would be lucky to get this deal.. A number one center who has already built chemistry with Kessel.. Could improve his stats and the teams overall offensive output. From a leafs P.O.V sign me up..

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06-23-2010, 12:23 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Tombernack View Post
Its easily bought out if you are PHX or CLB but NOT if you are TOR, since his cap hit will be higher than the actual dollar buy out amount per year.
the idea is that he'll retire, and will have already been paid the majority of his money, the contract isn't meant to be bought out

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06-23-2010, 12:24 PM
  #97
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Kaberle might want a raise, but if hes playing with a guy like Chara and winning games then why would you not want to take a little bit of a paycut to play on a team that has a chance of winning a cup. Kaberle is going to want upwards of 5.5 million if he stays with the Leafs because realistically he is there second best defenceman and is getting paid less than there 3rd best defenceman. I Boston does this deal because they have a lot of centres on the roster including Marchand, Krejci and Bergeron plus they have the 2nd overall which will either be Seguin or Hall and both have the capabilities to play centre and you don't want your star draft pick to be your #2 or #3 centre so why not trade Savard he is your best trade bait as of right now. Kaberle is a good puck moving defenceman who could help Chara when he wants to load that 105 MPH slap shot he has and Kaberle doesn't like to go to the corners so he has a big guy who can take that and that adds value to Kaberle.

I see this deal happening because in the end it benefits both teams becuase they get the puck moving mobile defenceman they havent had in a while and pair him with Chara and he is like a McCabe type player and look and what Kaberle did with Chara. Toronto gets their #1 centre they were looking for and pair him up with Kessel where he had a career year in points together.

Toronto would need to add some prospects to help the Bruins, but this is a good deal for both teams IMO.

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06-23-2010, 12:29 PM
  #98
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Um, since when is any defenseman worth a team's best forward?

Oh wait, Horton for Wideman...

Okay... Since when are the Boston Bruins actually the Florida Panthers?

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06-23-2010, 12:29 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
Savard is very good, but I believe Burke is looking for bigger players. I would pass if I was offered this deal from the Leafs' perspective.
fixed

you wouldn`t do which deal? any of the proposed ones or Kaberle for Savard straight up?
well, I would. Savard isn`t exactly the player I would look for but with him and a resigned Kulemin() we would have everything a good 1st line needs

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06-23-2010, 12:30 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Don't need to buy out. All he has to do is retire when he's 37-38 and it's off their salary. It would only count against the cap if he was 35 when the contract was signed. It's a flaw in the system. Same kind of contract Hossa, Zetterberg and Franzen have.
This guy gets it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cally Is Overrated View Post
I wouldn't want to be paying a 40 year old Savard 4 mil(cap hit wise). Would you? That kind of lowers his value, and his injury problems last season.
Apperently this guy can't read.

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