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Toronto sports media talk (the FAN continues its changes)

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:37 PM
  #76
dirk41
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How can he like the Blue Jays' young pitchers when he doesn't watch the games?
I think people are taking an all-or-nothing approach to Bob. He doesn't watch much sports, but that doesn't mean he doesn't watch sports at all. The one sport he seems to like and watch is baseball, even if it's only occasionally now.


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Believe me, he criticized Cito dating back to Gaston's earliest days with the team. And believe me, it was contrarian back in those days when the media coverage of the Blue Jays was mostly devoid of negativity.
I know he criticized Cito for a long time. I simply said it wasn't merciless until the Jays started losing.

I'm also not disputing that it was a contrarian position at the time. I'm simply disputing he was just doing it to be a contrarian. Even if you think it's unwarranted, his dislike of Cito is very genuine.

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06-24-2010, 01:39 PM
  #77
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It would be nice to get someone on the Fan590 who is actually a Leaf fan. Why in this market are we forced to listen to guys who don't even like the Leafs. We had:

Hogan (who loved the Canes)
Stormin Normin (who was born again into a Sabres fan)
Bob (doesn't even like hockey)
Berger (takes every chance he gets to bash the Leaf fanbase)
Landry (turned into a Habs fan)
Farraway (don't know, because I couldn't listen to him for more then 30 seconds)
McLean (did I mention I drafted Nash)
Now Brady (who loves Detroit)


They need a Leaf homer. Can't understand why they let Stellick go.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:45 PM
  #78
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Anyways, I actually agree that of course McCowan shouldn't be going anywhere. He brings in the ratings. People listen to his show, even people like myself who don't really like the guy. He's a mainstay, might be the most successful radio personality in Canada.
He never said he doesn't watch alot of sports. He doesn't follow any one team.

It seems strange how you can occasionly listen to him and yet form an opinion while he can't evaluate the Jays pitching because he doesn't watch every game.

He's always disliked Cito. Has he changed his opinion now? No, he's been consistent and now the rest of the media and fans are starting to actually agree with him. It's hard to screw up the bullpen when it's loaded with Duane Ward and Tom Henke.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:45 PM
  #79
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Farraway is a Leafs fan.
Who Hogan cheered for is kind of immaterial, he was always very objective IMO. Really disappointed he got let go.

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Old
06-24-2010, 01:50 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by dirk41 View Post
I know he criticized Cito for a long time. I simply said it wasn't merciless until the Jays started losing.

I'm also not disputing that it was a contrarian position at the time. I'm simply disputing he was just doing it to be a contrarian. Even if you think it's unwarranted, his dislike of Cito is very genuine.
No, even while the Jays were winning World Series Bobcat said they won in spite of him. His opinion has not changed and alot more people are starting to agree with him now. Cito's flaws are exposed when not given a great team.

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06-24-2010, 01:55 PM
  #81
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No, even while the Jays were winning World Series Bobcat said they won in spite of him.
I never disputed that. I simply disputed that his criticism could be categorized as "merciless."

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06-24-2010, 01:59 PM
  #82
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It's hard to screw up the bullpen when it's loaded with Duane Ward and Tom Henke.
Well, since this was brought up. How has he screwed up the bullpen exactly? The team clearly lacks a genuine closer. The bullpen is definitely weak. The bullpen's best pitcher is a journeyman having a career year. Gaston's doing an average job with what seems to be a below average bullpen. If you have a bad bullpen, wouldn't you be tempted to give your starters extra batters? Fans are lying to themselves if they answer no. Why can't fans just see that the team has relief pitchers who aren't doing their jobs?

Gaston had more than Henke and Ward during his World Series run. He had a bullpen with some other pretty darn effective relievers like Eichorn and Timlin plus Hentgen, Leiter and Williams before they were starters.

So many self-anointed baseball geniuses without two World Series rings.

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Old
06-24-2010, 02:12 PM
  #84
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I always quite liked Landry and Gordy although after all these years maybe they just needed a change?

Hogan was a decent host and seemed a good overall sports guy although not that exciting on his own.

Bobcat has his faults, but he is unique and I always enjoy his shows. He is money in the bank for the fan and is going nowhere.

The only guys on the fan that I truly cannot stand on the Fan are Mike Wilner (who is an arrogant a-hole of the highest order) and I'm not a fan of Eric Smith who just plays the NBA card relentlessly and offers very little else. I would be glad to see the back of those two, but especially Wilner.

Jack is a likeable enough guy but again hardly an inspiring host day in and day out.

I also quite liked the Millard/Kipper/McClean hockey stuff for the most part. They always seemed to have some good interaction and lively shows.

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06-24-2010, 02:15 PM
  #85
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I liked the noon show because they didn't do listener calls.

Hockey shows quickly degrade when fans start calling in to complain that "their boy" is being held down or call-in with their insane proposals to land us a star player.

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Old
06-24-2010, 02:15 PM
  #86
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Theres a reason McCowan is successful. He's controversial. 95% of the time I don't agree with him, and thats usually why I listen in.

Would radio be interesting if you agreed with everything being said? Thats part of the reason why his roundtable is so enjoyable to listen to. On a good day you have 3, usually not all 4, that have different thoughts. I laugh everytime when the three guys give their comments, then Bob cuts in saying "Of course you all are wrong, the correct answer is ..... "

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06-24-2010, 02:17 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by ElectricTicker View Post
Well, since this was brought up. How has he screwed up the bullpen exactly? The team clearly lacks a genuine closer. The bullpen is definitely weak. The bullpen's best pitcher is a journeyman having a career year. Gaston's doing an average job with what seems to be a below average bullpen. If you have a bad bullpen, wouldn't you be tempted to give your starters extra batters? Fans are lying to themselves if they answer no. Why can't fans just see that the team has relief pitchers who aren't doing their jobs?

Gaston had more than Henke and Ward during his World Series run. He had a bullpen with some other pretty darn effective relievers like Eichorn and Timlin plus Hentgen, Leiter and Williams before they were starters.

So many self-anointed baseball geniuses without two World Series rings.
I guess you haven't been watching any baseball either. It's clear Cito's bullpen strategy has been poor. Why is Gregg still the closer? Why did it take Cito so long to drop Overbay in the batting order? Why hasn't he moved Lind or Hill down?

Cito had it easy in 92 and 93. Anyone he picked was good.

Now you can see plenty of media and fans agreeing with Bob about Cito. Is he still a contrarian? I haven't seen him say he loves Cito just to disagree.

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06-24-2010, 02:24 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by captn View Post
I guess you haven't been watching any baseball either. It's clear Cito's bullpen strategy has been poor. Why is Gregg still the closer? Why did it take Cito so long to drop Overbay in the batting order? Why hasn't he moved Lind or Hill down?

Cito had it easy in 92 and 93. Anyone he picked was good.

Now you can see plenty of media and fans agreeing with Bob about Cito. Is he still a contrarian? I haven't seen him say he loves Cito just to disagree.
Gregg is still the closer because there's few options. Camp is the only one that has pitched well enough out of the pen to be considered for it and I think Cito likes having him in the 7th or 8th inning. Add to the fact that Camp is in his mid-30s and has never been a closer in his life.

The thing with Hill & Lind is that there were really no options to replace them in those spots. By the time Hill & Lind had been in an extended slump, guys like Bautista had stopped hitting. They even tried Bautista in that 3rd spot and he was a miserable failure.

You're not going to bat Gonzalez or John Buck in the 2nd or 3rd-hole. As much as Hill & Lind played their way out of those spots, nobody played their way into it.

Overbay was given a chance to work out of his slump and finally got moved down when he didn't. I would suspect Hill & Lind were getting close to that point until recently when they showed signs of life.

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06-24-2010, 02:43 PM
  #89
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Gregg is still the closer because there's few options. Camp is the only one that has pitched well enough out of the pen to be considered for it and I think Cito likes having him in the 7th or 8th inning. Add to the fact that Camp is in his mid-30s and has never been a closer in his life.

The thing with Hill & Lind is that there were really no options to replace them in those spots. By the time Hill & Lind had been in an extended slump, guys like Bautista had stopped hitting. They even tried Bautista in that 3rd spot and he was a miserable failure.

You're not going to bat Gonzalez or John Buck in the 2nd or 3rd-hole. As much as Hill & Lind played their way out of those spots, nobody played their way into it.

Overbay was given a chance to work out of his slump and finally got moved down when he didn't. I would suspect Hill & Lind were getting close to that point until recently when they showed signs of life.
Downs and Camp are both having better seasons and if you didn't notice Gregg is in his 30's.

Anwyay, that's not even the point. Bob McCown was called a contrarian because he didn't like Cito. Well, use google and you'll find that there's plenty of media questioning Cito's decisions these days. How does that make McCown a contrarian when there's plenty of people agreeing with him?

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Old
06-24-2010, 02:43 PM
  #90
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So they replaced everyone, except the one person they needed to give the boot (Bobcat)
Agreed. While I generally enjoy listening to the fan, the second I hear Bobcat I change stations.

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Old
06-24-2010, 02:57 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by captn View Post
I guess you haven't been watching any baseball either. It's clear Cito's bullpen strategy has been poor. Why is Gregg still the closer? Why did it take Cito so long to drop Overbay in the batting order? Why hasn't he moved Lind or Hill down?

Cito had it easy in 92 and 93. Anyone he picked was good.

Now you can see plenty of media and fans agreeing with Bob about Cito. Is he still a contrarian? I haven't seen him say he loves Cito just to disagree.
I believe the implied faulty premise is that a great baseball manager can get more out of mediocre players than average baseball managers. Through the history of baseball the recognized so-called great managers have been little more than shameless self-promoters who had success when their team had great talent: Earl Weaver, Sparky Anderson, Tommy Lasorda and Tony Larussa. Funny thing is that they won with great talent just like Gaston did. And lost when they didn't have great talent (and sometimes when they did have great talent too). Gaston's three biggest faults for failing to get recognition are the geography of his success, his quiet disposition and lack of bluster. Really it's a self-satisfying and spurious argument to discredit success by saying it happened despite the manager. It smacks of an excuse for hate.

The baseball manager is the most overrated position in all of major pro sports. I'm certainly not the first person to say this, doesn't McCowan say this all the time? The real work is done by the coaches who slog through drills after drills, teaching sessions, etc. individually with the players working on improving the player's skills.

Actually I did hear McCowan handing out compliments to Gaston earlier in the season when the team was in first place before the bullpen started to rear up as a problem spot. How much more contrarian can you get than to compliment the man you've feuded with for two decades?

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Old
06-24-2010, 03:17 PM
  #92
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Wow, I guess I totally misread the entire Toronto radio landscape. I have only lived in the GTA for less then 2 years, but I only listen to AM640 so I have come to like Leafs Lunch, and Greg Brady (not so much Bill Watters, but possibly bought into the propaganda that it is the show the "hockey world listens to").

I always found myself very annoyed when I listened to the Fan, maybe I will give it another chance.

Non-sports related, but is anyone else a big Oakley and Stafford fan like I am, pretty entertaining radio...Radio is so much better here then Windsor

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Old
06-24-2010, 03:21 PM
  #93
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so they fire someone who knows alot about what he talks about(millard) to hire brady who knows absolutly nothing about what hes talking about related to hockey? wow..I really dont have any words lol
He knows A LOT more than you're giving him credit for

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06-24-2010, 03:31 PM
  #94
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I believe the implied faulty premise is that a great baseball manager can get more out of mediocre players than average baseball managers. Through the history of baseball the recognized so-called great managers have been little more than shameless self-promoters who had success when their team had great talent: Earl Weaver, Sparky Anderson, Tommy Lasorda and Tony Larussa. Funny thing is that they won with great talent just like Gaston did. And lost when they didn't have great talent (and sometimes when they did have great talent too). Gaston's three biggest faults for failing to get recognition are the geography of his success, his quiet disposition and lack of bluster. Really it's a self-satisfying and spurious argument to discredit success by saying it happened despite the manager. It smacks of an excuse for hate.

The baseball manager is the most overrated position in all of major pro sports. I'm certainly not the first person to say this, doesn't McCowan say this all the time? The real work is done by the coaches who slog through drills after drills, teaching sessions, etc. individually with the players working on improving the player's skills.

Actually I did hear McCowan handing out compliments to Gaston earlier in the season when the team was in first place before the bullpen started to rear up as a problem spot. How much more contrarian can you get than to compliment the man you've feuded with for two decades?
I've been pretty clear on the premise. How you've warped it is beyond me.

Cito's flaws were covered up by a great team.

Whatever complinents that went Cito's way were for hitting. McCown has always been consistent on this.

Now instead of twisting this into a baseball debate why can't you admit you weren't even close about McCowan being contrarian? It's quite obvious to anyone who can use google that there's many fans and media who agree with him now. Whether he's right or wrong has no bearing on his "contrarian" views.

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Old
06-24-2010, 03:40 PM
  #95
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Wow, I guess I totally misread the entire Toronto radio landscape. I have only lived in the GTA for less then 2 years, but I only listen to AM640 so I have come to like Leafs Lunch, and Greg Brady (not so much Bill Watters, but possibly bought into the propaganda that it is the show the "hockey world listens to").

I always found myself very annoyed when I listened to the Fan, maybe I will give it another chance.

Non-sports related, but is anyone else a big Oakley and Stafford fan like I am, pretty entertaining radio...Radio is so much better here then Windsor
I can't stand Oakley.

Almost every single time I actually do tune in to see what he is saying, he and his colleagues are spewing some sort of anti-Middle Eastern, pro-Israeli agenda.

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06-24-2010, 03:46 PM
  #96
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As controversial as Bobcat can be, he is still must listen

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Old
06-24-2010, 03:50 PM
  #97
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Personally, I enjoy Stellick and Landry and their morning routine. They're both very clever with their sense of humour. Brady in the afternoon is also another guy who's sense of humour I appreicated, but really I'll go to any program that is talking Leafs.

I'm glad Hogan's out. Don't they teach you in radio broadcasting school to avoid dead air? Hogan obviously never made it to those classes. As nice of a man as he sounds, he needs to keep his tongue moving between his thoughts.

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06-24-2010, 03:52 PM
  #98
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I guess contracts at The Fan come up for renewal at this time of the year as Stormin Norman Rumack & others was let go/fired at this time a year ago June 22, 2009........

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06-24-2010, 03:55 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
landry and stellick are about as entertaining as 2 housewives baking brownies, adios...

hogan....enh could be worse.

how does that storman norman trash keep his job thru this?
Where've you been??? Rumack was fired a year ago!

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Old
06-24-2010, 04:06 PM
  #100
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I've been pretty clear on the premise. How you've warped it is beyond me.

Cito's flaws were covered up by a great team.

Whatever complinents that went Cito's way were for hitting. McCown has always been consistent on this.

Now instead of twisting this into a baseball debate why can't you admit you weren't even close about McCowan being contrarian? It's quite obvious to anyone who can use google that there's many fans and media who agree with him now. Whether he's right or wrong has no bearing on his "contrarian" views.
Never! I know what's right just like you seem to think you have all the answers about baseball. Just because an opinion is shared by a bunch other loud mouths doesn't make it more valid. Truth isn't a democracy or measured by a word count but it is relative and from my point of view it's the following:

McCowan plays a completely intentional contrarian/pseudo-misanthrope on the radio. I can't help it that some of his listeners obviously take him seriously hook, line and sinker. I guess they weren't around during his many previous incarnations when he wasn't channeling Don Imus and Howard Stern. It's a schtick. Those who seriously defend his opinions like they're sincere are missing something very obvious to me. Perhaps irony-impaired?

Cito Gaston is a championship manager, plain and simple. Never a big fan of the term "haters" but is there's a more apt term in 2010 to apply to the people who attach the blame for the Jays' poor performing bullpen on Gaston and spread rumors of a clubhouse revolt?

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