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2010-11 Salary Cap/Lineup Discussion (contract chart post #1)

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Old
06-25-2010, 04:41 PM
  #26
Darth Vitale
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Trading Kunitz to move up 5 spots = mistake. Especially if the return is Dvorak. He's the Ryan Whitney of forwards. Only not as gritty.

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06-25-2010, 04:49 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippo View Post
Trading Kunitz to move up 5 spots = mistake. Especially if the return is Dvorak. He's the Ryan Whitney of forwards. Only not as gritty.
Trading Kunitz to move up 5 spots to draft a guy who will need 2 years (probably more) to even be in the lineup of a Stanley Cup contending team.

I don't even think I need to express how stupid it is.

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06-25-2010, 04:54 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Trading Kunitz to move up 5 spots to draft a guy who will need 2 years (probably more) to even be in the lineup of a Stanley Cup contending team.

I don't even think I need to express how stupid it is.

Agreed. I don't know who is suggesting this, but whoever is is an idiot.


I would, however, be happy to trade Kunitz in a package to get #15 straight up, and keep #20.

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06-25-2010, 04:57 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Agreed. I don't know who is suggesting this, but whoever is is an idiot.


I would, however, be happy to trade Kunitz in a package to get #15 straight up, and keep #20.
Even then...

It'd be one thing if we had a Chicago situation where we had top 6 prospects coming out of our ears, but we don't. The one guy we have...he has a 50/50 shot of even being a top 6 guy. It just isn't wise, regardless of is left at 15, to trade Kunitz when we have no better options.

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06-25-2010, 04:59 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Agreed. I don't know who is suggesting this, but whoever is is an idiot.


I would, however, be happy to trade Kunitz in a package to get #15 straight up, and keep #20.
Still not a good idea.

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06-25-2010, 05:02 PM
  #31
jmelm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Even then...

It'd be one thing if we had a Chicago situation where we had top 6 prospects coming out of our ears, but we don't. The one guy we have...he has a 50/50 shot of even being a top 6 guy. It just isn't wise, regardless of is left at 15, to trade Kunitz when we have no better options.
But it would basically be #15 overall + whoever we could sign for that $ (i.e. Lombardi, Whitney, etc...).

I like Kunitz a lot, but he is overpaid, period, and he's proven to be somewhat injury prone. More importantly, though, I think we could draft a player at #15 who will be better than Kunitz within 2 years.

Also Moving Kunitz's salary out would be the only way we could actually realistically consider getting a top tier UFA (Martin, Kovalchuk, etc.)

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06-25-2010, 05:05 PM
  #32
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Eh. That's too much fire for me to play with.

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06-25-2010, 05:13 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Eh. That's too much fire for me to play with.

Gotta have balls!


Obviously it would totally be dependent on who the Pens liked at #15 and if he was available, which young guys they think could step in, which UFAs they think they could get, what prospects/players, they could trade for, etc. So it's impossible for us to figure it out in a vacuum, but for the Pens management, it's much easier to make that kind of decision.

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06-25-2010, 05:22 PM
  #34
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Absolutely, jmelm. On this point, we're definitely on the same side.

Two firsts between 15 and 20, plus more cap space for next week? That's absolutely a great strategy for us to consider. Ballsy? Yeah. But so was trading for Hossa. I want THAT type of management decision this summer.

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Old
06-25-2010, 05:30 PM
  #35
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Trading Kunitz doesn't have to be "smart" or "dumb". If he stays, great. We've got a legitimate top six player that can play hard-nosed hockey. If not, we get something in return and also $3.75 extra to spend if we want to go in a different direction with the forwards. I don't really think he's injury prone, but the chunk of games he missed this year plus his impotence in last year's playoffs I'm kind of just 'eh' towards him especially with his salary.

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06-25-2010, 05:36 PM
  #36
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Agreed. I don't know who is suggesting this, but whoever is is an idiot.


I would, however, be happy to trade Kunitz in a package to get #15 straight up, and keep #20.
How do you plan on using an injured Kunitz for a straight up package for number 15?

Because of the injury, they are going to want something significant.

I'm the Idiot, by the way.

Your second post makes a lot more sense, but I still find it hard for them to find something else worth it for Florida.

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06-25-2010, 05:51 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Trading Kunitz doesn't have to be "smart" or "dumb". If he stays, great. We've got a legitimate top six player that can play hard-nosed hockey. If not, we get something in return and also $3.75 extra to spend if we want to go in a different direction with the forwards. I don't really think he's injury prone, but the chunk of games he missed this year plus his impotence in last year's playoffs I'm kind of just 'eh' towards him especially with his salary.
If there was a perfect fit at wing, or a couple wingers, then I would be OK with trading Kunitz. I just don't see anything better talent wise, or financial wise on the marketing.

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Old
06-25-2010, 05:55 PM
  #38
jmelm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odds View Post
How do you plan on using an injured Kunitz for a straight up package for number 15?

Because of the injury, they are going to want something significant.

I'm the Idiot, by the way.

Your second post makes a lot more sense, but I still find it hard for them to find something else worth it for Florida.

Something like Kunitz + Gonchar's rights + 3rd round pick + prospect (Sneep, Straight, etc.)

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Old
06-26-2010, 03:18 AM
  #39
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Now that we traded for my man-crush's rights... it's time to celebrate by putting in some line-ups! For such a special occasion, I'll make two instead of one .

THE HOMERUN LINE-UP (Less likely/more moves to be made)

FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Eric Tangradi ($0.846m)
* Ray Whitney ($3.000m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.050m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($0.725m)
Eric Godard ($0.750m) / Michael Rupp ($0.825m) / Craig Adams ($0.550m)
Mark Letestu ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Kristopher Letang ($3.500m)
* Dan Hamhuis ($3.750m) / * Zybnek Michalek ($3.600m)
Alex Goligoski ($1.833m) / * Andreas Lilja ($0.850m)
Ben Lovejoy ($0.525m)

GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m) / Brent Johnson ($0.600m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 22; CAP:$59.4m; PAYROLL: $58.629m; CAP ROOM: $0.958m BONUSES: $0.138m

Re-Sign (Hey, it is technically, right?) : Dan Hamhuis - 6 years/22.5 Million (3.75 Cap-Hit) -- Durability isn't an issue with Hamhuis, so we can do this to keep the cap-hit down.
Sign : Ray Whitney - 2 Years/6 Million (3.0 Cap-Hit) -- I don't see adding a 2nd-year a problem AT ALL with Whitney here.
Sign : Zybnek Michalek - 4 years/14.4 Million (3.6 Cap-Hit) -- Since we don't have a true-true # 1 Defenseman, sign another top-4 guy.
Sign : Andreas Lilja 1 year/0.850 (.85 Cap-Hit) -- Sign a veteran guy to pair up with Goligoski, in the mean-time gives Lovejoy a veteran to compete with for the 6th spot.

Trade : Pascal Dupuis for a draft-pick. Probably 4th and 6th Round in either 2010/2011, not exactly sure on his value, but that was a guestimation.

Analyze : We obviously have a stacked-core here on Defense. Which I see making us a much-much better team next season. It'd be nice putting an actual defense in front of Fleury this year. (Okay, not trying to knock on the 09-10 defense... but I do think taking a different approach is a good idea--less OD.) We add Whitney, and give Tangradi a shot at the start of the season. I don't think Tangradi playing RW should be that much of an issue. And I think Talbot is a great mesh with Malkin, just as long as he is the 3rd-wheel. Which in this case, he is when you have Whitney on the left-side. Either way, love-love this line-up, however as I rightfully labeled it: Probably not the most likeliest of line-ups.

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Old
06-26-2010, 03:19 AM
  #40
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Realistic Line-Up:

FORWARDS
* Ray Whitney ($3.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.400m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / Eric Tangradi ($0.846m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($0.725m)
Michael Rupp ($0.825m) / Craig Adams ($0.550m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.050m)
Eric Godard ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Kristopher Letang ($3.500m)
* Dan Hamhuis ($4.000m) / * Jordan Leopold ($1.900m)
Alex Goligoski ($1.833m) / * Aaron Ward ($1.500m)
Ben Lovejoy ($0.525m)

GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m) / Brent Johnson ($0.600m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 22; CAP:$59.4m; PAYROLL: $58.679m; CAP ROOM: $0.858m BONUSES: $0.138m

Re-Sign : Dan Hamhuis 5 years/20 Million (4.0 Cap-Hit) -- Fair, Solid Cap-Hit for a guy who will seemingly fit perfectly into our system.
Re-Sign : Jordan Leopold 2 years/3.8 Million (1.9 Cap-Hit) -- Personally, I don't see Leopold as soft as others see him. If you pair him up with Orpik or even a Hamhuis, you're going to get good results (Unlike pairing him up with a Goligoski-type.) I think we'll be seeing him back if Gonchar isn't re-signed, and in this case, he is not.
Sign : Ray Whitney 2 years/6 Million (3.0 Cap-Hit) -- Again, I don't see the 2nd-year being an issue at all... and if you have a chance with Ray Whitney at 3.0, take it!
Sign : Aaron Ward 1 year/1.5 Million (1.5 Cap-Hit) -- Fills out our Bottom-Pairing, and would compliment a young player in Alex Goligoski nicely.

Analyze : This defense obviously isn't as good as the other line-up, but I wouldn't be complaining if this was it either. Ward will be a nice calming veteran presence on this team on the ice, and in the locker-room. Which will be needed with both Gonchar/Guerin leaving the team. The Forward corp is still the same basically, but with Dupuis in the Top-6 instead. Personally, I think a healthy Chris Kunitz is the upgrade that Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis line needs. It showed flashes of being a pretty good top-line in the playoffs. (That shift at the end of the 2nd period in Game 3 against MTL, etc.) The difference still is, we upgrade Geno's wing which is a must-need. I think we can all live with this line-up, and realize we upgraded the offense, and put a better-OVERALL defense in front of Flower.

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Old
06-26-2010, 03:27 AM
  #41
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^^^ I don't think Tangradi plays this year I really don't. If he does then great, but if you're going full realism I'd assume he's not. In that case I'd forget Whitney and do something like Prospal and Afinogenov (if he's willing to do about $2.5m). If we get Hamhuis locked up Afinogenov can be the first guy we call. Offer him 3 years $7.5 mil out of the gate and try to nab him. I'm weary of Aaron Ward just because he's 37 but if Lovejoy played about 20 games to spell him I'm fine with it. Kind of a win-win situation anyways getting him some time.

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Old
06-26-2010, 07:53 AM
  #42
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If we're going to be looking for a winger for Geno, I think we need to trade away Eric Godard, use that $750K of cap space to put towards that UFA, and if we really need an enforcer, look for a goon with a two-way contract, like we had with Paul Bissonette. That way he only goes against the cap in those games that we need him.

Besides, if either of Tangradi or Nick Johnson make the jump this year, we're going to have too many one-way contracted forwards against the cap.

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Old
06-26-2010, 09:29 AM
  #43
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This is amazingly tight against the cap, and the salaries used may be low, so might need to cut back in a spot (most likely the 2nd top 4 D signed, assuming we find a way to get Hamhuis).

2010-11 PITTSBURGH PENGUINS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / * Max Afinogenov ($2.250m)
* Vinny Prospal ($1.850m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.400m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($0.725m)
Michael Rupp ($0.825m) / Craig Adams ($0.550m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.050m)
Eric Godard ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
* Dan Hamhuis ($3.833m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Kristopher Letang ($3.500m) / * Toni Lydman ($3.250m)
Alex Goligoski ($1.833m) / Ben Lovejoy ($0.525m)
* Freddy Meyer ($0.750m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m) / Brent Johnson ($0.600m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 22; CAP:$59.4m; PAYROLL: $59.366m; CAP ROOM: $0.034m BONUSES: $0.000m

The other option(s) would be moving one of Dupuis or Kennedy, plugging in Nick Johnson, and some order of Dupuis/Kennedy, Johnson, Talbot on RW lines 2-4.

Barring that, we scale back from Lydman to Tallinder/Eaton range, or Leopold if you want another offensive guy as a fallback option on the PP. Those guys should be about $500K - $1M less than Lydman, that additional $ can be used to upgrade the #6/7 guy from Meyer to say Jurcina.

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Old
06-26-2010, 01:48 PM
  #44
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Try this one out.

FORWARDS
* Matthew Lombardi ($3.200m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.400m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / * Vinny Prospal/Vet ($1.700m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($0.725m)
Michael Rupp ($0.825m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.050m) / Craig Adams ($0.550m)
Eric Godard ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Kristopher Letang ($3.500m)
* Dan Hamhuis ($4.000m) / * Jordan Leopold ($1.750m)
Ben Lovejoy ($0.525m) / Alex Goligoski ($1.833m)
* Freddy Meyer/Vet ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m) / Brent Johnson ($0.600m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 22; CAP:$59.4m; PAYROLL: $58.683m; CAP ROOM: $0.717m BONUSES: $0.000m

If you don't like that 3rd pairing than switch Lovejoy with the Vet. Replace any FA with Prospal/Meyer/Lombardi but I'd love to see the Lombardi thing happen. Still a long shot but I think 3.2m is reasonable. Salary's ok overall?

I think this is the Offseason Model going into July 1st.

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Old
06-26-2010, 02:22 PM
  #45
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No thanks to Lombardi at 3.2. I'd rather have Whitney at that price. I'm probably alone on this as well, but if we're spending $4M on a D-man, I want Michalek and not Hamhuis.

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06-26-2010, 03:01 PM
  #46
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No thanks to Lombardi at 3.2. I'd rather have Whitney at that price. I'm probably alone on this as well, but if we're spending $4M on a D-man, I want Michalek and not Hamhuis.
Yeah, I'd definitely rather have Hamhuis than Michalek.

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Old
06-27-2010, 12:00 AM
  #47
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Kunitz- Crosby - Bennett
Tangradi - Malkin - Kühnhackel
Cooke - Staal - Kennedy
Rupp - Talbot - Adams

Orpik - Letang
Goligoski - Hamhuis
Despres - Lovejoy

Fleury
Johnson


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Old
06-27-2010, 01:12 PM
  #48
jmelm
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My Latest Line-Up

I posted this in the Gonchar thread, but I figured I should copy it here, too.


Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis*
Tangradi-Malkin-Johnson
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy
Rupp-Adams-Talbot
Godard

Hamhuis-Michalek/Kubina
Orpik-Letang
Goligoski-Lovejoy
7th D ($600K)

(Hamhuis @ $4million & Michalek/Kubina @ $4.5 million)


Based on the above line-up, we would still have $1,455,000 in cap space.

*What I would propose, if we can sign a better forward, is to trade Dupuis and sign someone, but that would pretty much leave us with about $2.5 to $2.7 to spend on a forward. That would probably limit us to the following guys: Stempniak, Afinogenov, Zherdev, Whitney or Kariya, depending on their salary demands, of course.

What I like about this line-up is that we would have a solid defense locked up for a long time and then, hopefully, the cap will go up again next summer and we can sign a legitimate scoring winger to a long term contract. If you look at this UFA class, it's much stronger in D than up front, so if we're going shopping, we may as well buy the strength this season. And it's always easier to find a forward than a Dman.

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06-27-2010, 05:38 PM
  #49
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Just a thought...

FORWARDS
* Whitney, Ray ($3.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / * Selanne, Teemu ($2.000m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.846m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Mark Letestu ($0.500m) / Tyler Kennedy ($0.725m)
Pascal Dupuis ($1.400m) / Michael Rupp ($0.825m) / Craig Adams ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
* Sergei Gonchar ($5.000m) / * Dan Hamhuis ($4.000m)
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Kristopher Letang ($3.500m)
Alex Goligoski ($1.833m) / * Staal, Marc ($1.500m)
Ben Lovejoy ($0.525m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m) / Brent Johnson ($0.600m)

ROSTER: 21; CAP:$59.4m; PAYROLL: $58.754m; CAP ROOM: $0.783m BONUSES: $0.138m

** Kunitz, Talbot become trade bait for something to possibly fill some of these FA additions. I'm not 100% about the Gonchar re-sign, but he does make us better. If we add Hamhuis beside him, then I think we're really strong. I'm probably being optimistic about Marc Staal...but he's a huge body that is still improving. He's played on crap Ranger teams, so in our system he might blossum. Thoughts?

** Also, has anyone noticed Malkin's FO%??? It is terrible. Why haven't we thought about moving him to a wing? Letestu does a great job in the circle, so he needs some play time. I think he can grind out with Cookie and Kennedy (but that takes away Staal's size from this line...so perhaps putting Rupp on the RW and drop Kennedy to the 4th line).

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06-27-2010, 06:38 PM
  #50
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What do you guys think about Mike Modano for a top 6 wing position?

It looks like he will test FA before making a decision on retirement. He might be interested in making another run at the cup playing for a contender, and he would be cheap. He can still fly and skate great, he can still shoot and handle the puck well and he's been putting up good numbers in Dallas despite playing a checking role on their bottom 6.

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