Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
This always happends: Whenever a Leaf player is rumoured to go somewhere, the player on the opposite team is vastly overrated. Dustin Brown is no "Untouchable Young Star" as most of you are painting him as. He's not that good.
so you would trade him straight across for 1 yr of Kaberle? -If yes - who's your team, cause I'm not a big fan of either team, but I've seen both players play plenty, and I wouldn't make that deal if I was LA
Like my other King's fans are saying, the only thing we are giving up for Kaberle is Moller/prospects/draft picks. Whether thats enough or not, no roster players are going your way if a trade happens other than maybe Stoll or Williams...but even that is doubtful.
You speak as if you're Lombardi. You don't know what we're getting. If you mean by internet trade proposals to fans then sure. How many people laughed at Chicago wanting a 1st for Byfuglien?
You speak as if you're Lombardi. You don't know what we're getting. If you mean by internet trade proposals to fans then sure. How many people laughed at Chicago wanting a 1st for Byfuglien?
that moved smelt a little desperate, a new GM on a team that's made the playoff once?? I think. I don't think a team like LA would make a move like that.
You speak as if you're Lombardi. You don't know what we're getting. If you mean by internet trade proposals to fans then sure. How many people laughed at Chicago wanting a 1st for Byfuglien?
Is it really that far-fetched that fans of a team would know their General Manager's thought process? The poster you quoted stated "the only thing we're giving up". He's not saying he knows what you're getting, he's just stating what's available from our side. If Burke doesn't like what's available from the Kings, then Kaberle won't be traded to the Kings and we don't have a problem with that. And arguably "what's available" is exactly what he stated.
It's incredibly aggravating how many HF posters (and of course, mainly arrogant Leafs fans) say Brown is a "mediocre" player or that he could easily be had for scraps or impending, aging UFAs. That proves utterly that you people:
A) Don't ever see him play and base your evaluations solely on goals and assists.
B) Have no idea about the LA Kings or how their team is structured.
Brown is to the Kings what Ryan Smyth was to the Oilers in his prime. Heart, soul, identity, character... and Captain... with the league's cap-friendliest contract to boot. It's just maddening beyond belief.
If you think he's so mediocre, why do you want him so badly?
I love how you try and use logic to justify this rumor, then dare to mention Kopitar and Doughty in regards to a Kaberle trade.
Brown, our 25 year old captain, for 4 years at 3.1 M; or 1 year of Kaberle...hmmmm...I wonder what the logical choice would be.
Obviously it's not a good trade for Kaberle, but GMs aren't in the business of going around insulting each other's intelligence. This thread is under the assumption that the Rumor is true and the Kings have a legitimate offer in on Kaberle.
If in fact that is the case (I don't think it is, but I'll run with that assumption for the purposes of this thread), Los Angeles is likely willing to part with something that the Leafs wouldn't feel insulted by; in which case one of those 6 players would have to be going to Toronto. Obviously it's not going to be Kopitar or Doughty, they are just pieces that the Leafs would like, I didn't think I needed to clarify that twice.
I'm not trying to justify this rumor, I'm merely saying what kind of player would be coming to Toronto IF (and that's a big if) it was the truth.
The best thing I could see Toronto getting for Kaberle is something like Kaberle for Savard type deal, or Kaberle for 2-3 solid prospects, but I know Burke is more of a Now(Savard) person than a Later(prospect) person.
would the Leaf be interested in a Tuebert and a 2nd for Kabs, or Moller and Tuebert? would LA do this? Kaberle's unwillingness to play in the WC may make this a non-starter IDN, I wouldn't have predicted the Halak or the Buff trades either so I'm no expert
There have been some awful posts from both fanbases. Kaberle being mentioned as a #4 defenseman for example. He wasn't even a #4 on the Czech Republic Olympic team, yet he's going to be a #4 on the Los Angeles Kings, a team that didn't make it past the first round in the NHL playoffs. Who is ahead of Kaberle? Doughty for sure, Johnson maybe, but then who? Rob Scuderi is the only other player who comes remotely close to Kaberle if we're taking all-round performance into account. Kaberle would likely be the second best defenseman on the Kings if they were to acquire him. Secondly, Leafs fans seem to be downplaying how good Brown actually is. He's a complete forward signed to a decent contract who is still relatively young. Because he has four years left on his contract, the Leafs would need to give up more than Kaberle to get him in a trade with the Kings, but he is by no means "untouchable".
It's incredibly aggravating how many HF posters (and of course, mainly arrogant Leafs fans) say Brown is a "mediocre" player or that he could easily be had for scraps or impending, aging UFAs. That proves utterly that you people:
A) Don't ever see him play and base your evaluations solely on goals and assists.
B) Have no idea about the LA Kings or how their team is structured.
Brown is to the Kings what Ryan Smyth was to the Oilers in his prime. Heart, soul, identity, character... and Captain... with the league's cap-friendliest contract to boot. It's just maddening beyond belief.
If you think he's so mediocre, why do you want him so badly?
Uh, I am a KINGS fan, and Brown IS a mediocre player.
And you really shouldn't ask anyone to look beyond Brown's numbers - modest points and big hit totals are all he has to offer right now.
Don't expect any grit - he's no power forward by any stretch of the imagination. Take away the hits and you are looking Michael Ryder squarely in the eye. He's poor along the boards, poor in the corners, and makes some god awful decisions with the puck. There is a real lack of pure hockey sense in Brown, but his physicality overshadows that at times.
There's no toughness there - no perserverence. He falls down looking to draw calls instead of fighting through tough checking. It's fair to say that he has regressed as a player under Terry Murray and the weight of his captaincy. Mentally, he is pretty soft. Out of market fans, and fellow Kings fans blinded by the homegrown big hits, don't really see enough of him to notice that side.
Now, he does have his strengths too - great wheels, extremely coachable, enormously committed to his team and community, and like I said, modest numbers. When he is on his game, he is a force. The odd thing is that Brown is actually a much more effective player when he forechecks with his speed and forgets the big hits.
He's a tweener, and there is nothing wrong with that. You just can't expect him to be more than he is, and unfortunately the Kings have been putting him into positions to fail instead of succeeding. I understand why, because he is so damn likable and still has that "young" tag on him.
All that considered, he's still too much to give up for 1 year of Kaberle.
Yeah, that's exactly what we need: another puck moving defenseman because Doughty and Johnson aren't very good and we should probably trade our captain, too.
would the Leaf be interested in a Tuebert and a 2nd for Kabs, or Moller and Tuebert? would LA do this? Kaberle's unwillingness to play in the WC may make this a non-starter IDN, I wouldn't have predicted the Halak or the Buff trades either so I'm no expert
Not a chance.
Burke isn't interested in prospects and these paticular prospects are basically crap to Toronto. Teubert is no improvement over what the Leafs already have in Phaneuf, Komisarek, Schenn and Aulie as our long term big physical options. Moller has had 22 points in the equivalent of 1 season of play in the league over the last 2 years.
If you're going to lure Burke with prospects, it's going to be a price that no kings fan is going to like paying; with Brayden Schenn or Thomas Hickey as the starting point, and in all likelyhood involving both. That's a price the Kings shouldn't be willing to pay.
I don't see the need for Kaberle in Los Angeles to be honest.
This.
First off Kaberle is redundant in LA. They are in no need of a puck moving defensman/pp qb. Second as much as I would love to see Brown come to the leafs, it's not happening. LA has a very good young core and a captain in his early 20's. Trading Brown is a step backwards.
Bottom line...Berger's source forgot to take his meds...
Yeah, that's exactly what we need: another puck moving defenseman because Doughty and Johnson aren't very good and we should probably trade our captain, too.
Yes, we do a need another puck moving defensemen more than anything else at this point.
5 on 5 play starts with defensemen who can make clean breakout passes. Aside from Doughty, nobody on the Kings is all that skilled at moving the puck out of his zone.
Greene and Scuderi? Absolutely not. Drewiske? Is he even going to play?
Hickey and Voynov? Hextall has indicated that they are both too weak to play in the NHL right now.
Johnson? No, not really. His awful +/- numbers are indicative of his poor decisions in his own zone. He skates with the puck well, and he is increasingly putting up better numbers from the point, but his transition game is really his biggest weakness now. He's still very, very raw, and has a damn good chance of improving that skill, but it isn't here yet.
O'Donnell? Jones? They are both likely goners as well. The real need is for a guy who can improve the breakouts.
Who else is going to play the point on the PP? You can't keep putting Doughty and Johnson out for 1:50 of every 2 minutes.
Burke isn't interested in prospects and these paticular prospects are basically crap to Toronto. Teubert is no improvement over what the Leafs already have in Phaneuf, Komisarek, Schenn and Aulie as our long term big physical options. Moller has had 22 points in the equivalent of 1 season of play in the league over the last 2 years.
If you're going to lure Burke with prospects, it's going to be a price that no kings fan is going to like paying; with Brayden Schenn or Thomas Hickey as the starting point, and in all likelyhood involving both. That's a price the Kings shouldn't be willing to pay.
I think you may have unrealistically high expectations - I could see Hickey, but Schenn's a pipe dream, but thats just my opinion so I could be wrong too - Don't include Aulie in that list, I watched him every game before he was traded and he was 5/6 on the Heat depth charts, so unless he improved 100% he's miles away from the NHL
I don't know why everyone doesn't just relax about Kaberle. I would love to to have a player of his skill, but every time I have heard Brian Burke speak, he says that he is not looking to trade Kaberle. Why do we continue to beat a dead horse? I don't only mean Leaf fans. I hope he comes to Boston but I don't know if we are willing to pay for him.
I would be shocked if this deal had any legs. For many reasons.
1. Kaberle's biggest strength is his play on the PP, the Kings PP was top ten last season with Jarret "Fulton Reed" Stoll as one of the point men. The Kings PP was scary in the playoffs with Doughty and Johnson.
2. The Kings do need a puck moving d-man, but not as much as they need a 1st line winger, the Kings will make a play for Kovalchuk or someone via trade, so unless the Kings find someone to dump Ryan Smyth and/or Justin Williams contracts off to, there simply isn't the cap space to add Kaberle and that first line forward. Especially for the summer before the 2011 season when the Kings will have to dish out huge raises to Doughty, Johnson, Simmonds and potentially Bernier.
3. The Kings lack assets they would be willing to trade that would interest Toronto. Sorry guys but no way Toronto takes a B level prospect like Moller and a flop like Teubert. Moller has yet to prove himself at the NHL level, while he has a nice skillset and Burke is known to like him, he would have a hard time justifying him as the main piece in a Kaberle trade. Teubert is terrible, guy was not even good enough for the Kings AHL affiliate, any value the guy had as a former first round pick is gone with his play the last two seasons. Trading Hickey now would be selling low for the Kings with his injuries, plus he is not valuable enough to be the center piece of a trade for Kaberle. Schenn is going nowhere, Johnson is going nowhere, Brown has the best non-EL contract in the NHL and is the captain, hard to see him being moved.
4. The Kings #1 pick is not very high this year, plus I see them wanting to pick in front of the home fans, unless they get blown away with a trade offer that involves it.
Just don't see these guys making good trading partners
I would be shocked if this deal had any legs. For many reasons.
1. Kaberle's biggest strength is his play on the PP, the Kings PP was top ten last season with Jarret "Fulton Reed" Stoll as one of the point men. The Kings PP was scary in the playoffs with Doughty and Johnson.
2. The Kings do need a puck moving d-man, but not as much as they need a 1st line winger, the Kings will make a play for Kovalchuk or someone via trade, so unless the Kings find someone to dump Ryan Smyth and/or Justin Williams contracts off to, there simply isn't the cap space to add Kaberle and that first line forward. Especially for the summer before the 2011 season when the Kings will have to dish out huge raises to Doughty, Johnson, Simmonds and potentially Bernier.
3. The Kings lack assets they would be willing to trade that would interest Toronto. Sorry guys but no way Toronto takes a B level prospect like Moller and a flop like Teubert. Moller has yet to prove himself at the NHL level, while he has a nice skillset and Burke is known to like him, he would have a hard time justifying him as the main piece in a Kaberle trade. Teubert is terrible, guy was not even good enough for the Kings AHL affiliate, any value the guy had as a former first round pick is gone with his play the last two seasons. Trading Hickey now would be selling low for the Kings with his injuries, plus he is not valuable enough to be the center piece of a trade for Kaberle. Schenn is going nowhere, Johnson is going nowhere, Brown has the best non-EL contract in the NHL and is the captain, hard to see him being moved.
4. The Kings #1 pick is not very high this year, plus I see them wanting to pick in front of the home fans, unless they get blown away with a trade offer that involves it.
Just don't see these guys making good trading partners
Your hate for Teubert not being a right out of the box NHL D-man is clouding your mind. It's only been 2 years.
Your hate for Teubert not being a right out of the box NHL D-man is clouding your mind. It's only been 2 years.
Out of the box NHL d-man?
The guy could not even crack the Monarchs at the end of the season. A former Top 15 pick sent for two straight seasons to the ECHL, and you think everything is ok? Maybe in 2009 when he was 19 and got sent to Ontario you could make excuses, this season he was 20 years old with parts of 4 seasons (3 full seasons) of junior hockey and still couldn't crack the Monarchs, I'm sorry thats unacceptable for someone taken so high. As of now flop is the correct word. I am not expecting every player to be Myers, but I do expect to see some kind of growth from a player in the two years after they have been drafted. The guy has progressed very little if at all since the Kings drafted him. Especially in comparisons to almost every other d-man taken in that draft. Maybe when he progresses in any way at all you can start to say he is a legit NHL prospect, but as of now he looks like another bad pick from the Kings, just like Brian Boyle, who everyone else defended to no end despite showing little signs of being anything more than a fringe NHL'er.
Honest questions...if you re-did the 2008 draft where would you take him?
If the Kings put him on the block what kind of return would DL get?
The best thing I could see Toronto getting for Kaberle is something like Kaberle for Savard type deal, or Kaberle for 2-3 solid prospects, but I know Burke is more of a Now(Savard) person than a Later(prospect) person.
Burke's "Now" players acquired have all been early to mid-20's though.
The guy could not even crack the Monarchs at the end of the season. A former Top 15 pick sent for two straight seasons to the ECHL, and you think everything is ok? Maybe in 2009 when he was 19 and got sent to Ontario you could make excuses, this season he was 20 years old with parts of 4 seasons (3 full seasons) of junior hockey and still couldn't crack the Monarchs, I'm sorry thats unacceptable for someone taken so high. As of now flop is the correct word. I am not expecting every player to be Myers, but I do expect to see some kind of growth from a player in the two years after they have been drafted. The guy has progressed very little if at all since the Kings drafted him. Especially in comparisons to almost every other d-man taken in that draft. Maybe when he progresses in any way at all you can start to say he is a legit NHL prospect, but as of now he looks like another bad pick from the Kings, just like Brian Boyle, who everyone else defended to no end despite showing little signs of being anything more than a fringe NHL'er.
Honest questions...if you re-did the 2008 draft where would you take him?
If the Kings put him on the block what kind of return would DL get?
D-men take time. Yes, I would take Teubert every time over Myers and twice on Sunday. The information at the time made him the right choice, not "what happened". This is like admonishing teams for not picking The Luc's of the draft in the top 10.
the Toronto Maple Leaf fanbase has officially lost all credibility....
Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25
no... for the sheer stupidity of taking the time to post this crap!
Not all Leaf fans are dumb. Lol.
Problem is... Leaf fans are a large group, and their are more "Dumb Leaf fans" athan say "dumb Coyotes Fans"... no wait, that's not true. Most of them don't know hockey at all (;P jk). More than "dumb Kings fans", so therefore they look worse. But there ARE knowledgeable Leaf fans if you take your time to look around and talk to some folks.
Let's just agree that the likelihood of the Kings trade their captain ( signed fairly cheap for a bunch of more years) for one year of Kaberle (who is said to want to stay in the East, making it unlikely for the Kings to be able to extend him) is small. The value might be there in a sense but the circumstances surrounding the players, like contract length and salary, are not ideal.
